Increased hunger and blood sugar problems AFTER PROTEIN with low fat...a solution

[zelia]

Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo

Zeila, I like cola too, so I am by no means saying drinking cola every day MAKES a diet unhealthy (or, means that such a person DOES eat unhealthfully). I'm just saying that drinking soda every day tends to correlate (*correlate*) with not eating a balanced diet. If you took 100 people, odds are the ones who drank cola every day would be more likely to have the worst diets (alcoholics and drug addicts excluded ). This is because cola has a reputation for being unhealthy so people who are mindful of nutrition tend to avoid cola (but, even though cola is ASSOCIATED with an unhealthy diet, doesn't mean a diet is unhealthy if it includes cola!)

Kinda like, you would also probably find those who ate a lot of meat and fat tended to have poor nutrition and health problems. It isn't because meat and fat are so bad for you, it's because people THINK it is, so those who eat these foods a lot tend to just eat all kinds of bad for you crap and the overall diet is unbalanced... whereas people with low moderate intakes of meat and fat are more likely to be healthful, because the conventional wisdom is that a low moderate intake of meat and fat is good for you. It's not avoiding high meat and high fat that is showing this trend, it is those who are interested in healthy eating, are more likely to do everything that is "nutritionally correct".

The sum of the habits make a healthy diet and some habits are more important than others (and really the #1 important healthy eating habit is avoiding a lot of sugar and a lot of starch, and you'll observe this is the ONE habit all healthy people have in common whether they do low fat, high fat, low cal, or ad lib eating... all are restricting their carbohydrate consciously or indirectly).

Phosphoric acid, sounds scary but really all it is is... phosphorus, that's the only thing that can affect bone density (not the acid, the phosphorus). And, phosphorus is a natural mineral, like calcium and magnesium, it's only a problem if there is an overall nutritional poverty for proteins and calcium and magnesium. This is the same logic that a low carb diet is said to rot your bones (well this is the ORIGINAL source of the myth). Meat = tons of phosphorus, and foods relatively high in carbs tend to have calcium (milk, dairy). Physiology is much more complex than this, many factors figure in to bone density and calcium wasting, and what the evidence actually shows is high protein intakes increase bone density in those without any kidney disease (kidney disease is a special exception, obviously). A high fat intake, associated with any carb reduction (you *have* to eat more fat if you eat less carbs assuming calories are equal)... will promote calcium absorption and vitamin D absorption too, which may be another reason low carb diets actually promote strong bones even though the nutrition know it alls think otherwise.

IT's another nutritional myth, like so many others...

The only truth to soda being bad for you is regarding it's sugar (of course!), caffeine, and the acid's effect on teeth (acids can and will stain and weaken tooth enamel). But, the acids in soda are really no worse than the acids in lemon juice or ... vinegar for that matter . The sharp tingling feeling is mostly carbonation, not acid, anyway. The carbonation makes it seem like soda is OMG SO CAUSTIC but it's just air bubbles .
As for caffeine... well, we all know it's bad. It's a drug. I try to stay away but it's hard .

I enjoy your very informative posts. It wasn't your thinking that I was commenting on. You said both more and less than you meant with this: "Unsurprisingly, heavy cola drinkers have poor nutrition," and this old writer and editor couldn't resist twitting you about it.

[moonmirror]

Hmmm....others have noticed this phenomenon. Southeast Asians swear by vinegar for weightloss. They say to drink small cups of it throughout the day to lose weight.

[aim in Fla*working]

maybe we should do a study and try it out and post results. Like a ttable spoon after each meal?

[Auntie Em]

I know this thread is a few years old, and most of the posters don't post here anymore. Just wanted to say "thank you"! I have found this thread very helpful.

[metqa]

Originally Posted by ItsTheWooo

Definitely, those foods are wonderful. A double benefit of foods which are acidic via fermention: lower carb count (the acids are the byproducs of bacteria, which are eating the sugars for us and spitting out acid producys as waste ... thanks germies!)

Hey Auntie Em!

I came because of your bump and decided to put forth my experience with the fermented foods.

When I was introduced to Kombucha, I was suffering unusual indigestion along with lack of a appetite, a bad combo. I had some bottled kombucha that had been left out of the store cooler for a couple of months and so I "disposed" of them into my fridge! I didn't realize it till the pattern emerged, but I started taking small sips from my limited over ripe supply, it was almost vinegar strength. I found that when I took a sip, my appetite would pick up, and I could actually eat, but after eating eh indigestion would start. I found that if I drank a few sips of the strong kombucha after the meal, I had no indigestion. I also felt like my meal had ended. If I felt hungry still, that latter sip of Kombucha would either tell me if I were still hungry or end the hunger STAT.

I just figured the extra acid helped the food to digest, but the main acid in Kombucha is acetic acid, and according to this thread it helps with the digestion of protein and slows digestion, etc.

Another thing that caught my attention was the reference to asian vinegar and pickles. Japanese traditional meals have a small serving of pickles. But these are not pickles like Vlassic that are just soaked in vinegar but often salted pickles. But the thing is, one of the popular pickles are made by mixing rice bran with salt saturated water, and buring vegetable scraps into it it for 2-3 weeks. the bacteria from the cabbage and veggies get into the bran and grow, despite the salt and basically slightly ferment the subsequent veggies that are buried into the bran mash. the bateria's by product of digestion is acetic acid, among others. So these salt pickles still have the benefit of helping digestion because the bacteria makes it's own "vinegar" so to speak.

I currently drink kefir, now, I love to make it very strong and at it's strongest it tastes like it has lemon juice in it. I wonder if I'm getting digestion benefit from that also. I can drink a cup of kefir and feel full and satisfied but I can eat a meal and still be hungry , so I've been finishing meals with a few ounces of strong kefir. I think my history is repeating itself.

[Auntie Em]

Metga, it's great you are doing so well with the fermented foods. I haven't made kimchi or sauerkraut because I don't want the smells in my house, but I try to make sure I eat a few spoonfuls of yoghurt each day. It seems to help my digestion. I find it soothing, too. And yoghurt increases GABA. (Dr. Emily Deans put that on her blog, Evolutionary Psychiatry.)

I know some are keen on Dr. Bragg's ACV, too.

I'm glad you posted in this thread.

[metqa]

I didn't know that about Yogurt and GABA!!! Thanks!
I DO want to make kimchi, and I live alone but BF might object to the amount of garlic I'd want to use!!!

I neglect my kombucha horribly, but if all things were going well, I'd like to have going..
Kombucha
Milk Kefir
Water Kefir
Yogurt
Japanese style Rice Bran Pickles
Korean Kimchee
Sourdough ( even though I can't make flour products to save my life)
and
a healthy active worm bin to eat my veggie scraps and feed my potted plants!

[Auntie Em]

Metga, your fermented foods projects are amazing! What a good example you are.

Yoga increases GABA, too. That is one of the reasons I am so diligent about my daily Callanetics and senior yoga, stretches, etc. Callanetics is yoga and ballet exercises combined.

[metqa]

Originally Posted by Auntie Em

Metga, your fermented foods projects are amazing! What a good example you are.

Yoga increases GABA, too. That is one of the reasons I am so diligent about my daily Callanetics and senior yoga, stretches, etc. Callanetics is yoga and ballet exercises combined.

Oh...., BF will be happy to hear that...

He like Callanetics,..... I don't , ...

but since I introduced it to him, I have to do it with him !

[Auntie Em]

Metga, I'm glad you've got motivation to do your Callanetics. I really enjoy doing them every day.

Another way to increase GABA is being on a ketogenic diet. That's one of my key motivators for being strict with my food plan. Yoga, yoghurt, VLC, all mean more mental poise, for me.

Hope your day is going splendidly.

[moonmirror]

Amazing. I have a history of trouble with alcohol so I'm always, always turned on by the prospect of increasing GABA (long-term recovery [years!] from "overuse" of alcohol means severely depleted GABA); you may know that yoga is a common passion of those in alcohol recovery, this may be why. Ketogenic diets are also frequently recommended for recovery.

So I find this post of yours interesting, Em.

[loveispeakincode]

omg...thank you...best post i've read in FOREVER...& i think i get it...

ok so...what you're saying is...we need more fat &/or some kind of acidy food to go with our protein & veggies to prevent the OMG IM STARVING feeling that comes shortly after..?

i can see that...i know when i was doing the ACV deal before my meals i felt a bit more satisfied, & when i do end up eating a higher fat meal i'm completely satisfied...
i know what i need to do to add more fat...but can you give me some more ideas on how i could add more ideas on the acid part?
all i can think of is vinegar dressing (which...i really dont think i could handle) pickles, lemons (could i just drink lemonade with my meal?) & mustard....maybe hot sauce?

sometimes i feel like..i'm full..but i'm not satisfied..so i feel the need to munch..do you adding more fat & acid will help? bc thats such an awful feeling :l

also...5-htp...i loved it when i took it..but it TOTALLY killed my sex drive...(tmi..sorry)
i mean...i didnt even want my fiance to look at me...it was awful...am i the ONLY weirdo this has happened to?!

i hope this makes a little bit of sense...thanks!

[metqa]

i hope it wasn't 5htp, cause i wanna use it and don't want to kill my 'bido.

I recently talked to a friend about acid reflux and acid blockers, told her that we need more acid to digest protein. protein meals with low acid are bad news for digestion and can cause discomfort and trouble in the intestines. I told her that despite using acid blockers, she might want to ad ACV to her diet. I'm gonna share this information with her next week.

some options for acids that I know of include the obvious: oil-vinegar salad dressings ( some aren't as harsh as others), real lemonade, cooking sauces with vinegars, rice vinegar, ACV,...

non typical - the fermented foods ie. kimchee, vinegar pickles, salted fermented pickles, saurkraut, sourdough, yoghurt, kefir, creme fraiche, and kombucha.

I think some fish pastes or fish sauces may qualify, but I'm not sure. maybe miso....

[Raqoon]

I love synchronicity!

I had my first appointment with a naturopathic doctor yesterday, and she prescribed me to eat more fermented foods like all the ones you're all mentioning here, to rebuild good gut flora and to help in weight loss!

Now I'd doubly motivated to go pick up the kim chee and pickles.

[metqa]

I love your name, Raqoon. Cute Avi!

[Raqoon]

Originally Posted by metqa

I love your name, Raqoon. Cute Avi!

Thanks Metqa!

[Auntie Em]

Moonmirror, interesting about recovery from alcohol and needing more GABA. I've read a couple of lists of helpful supplements, but I don't have one in my bookmarks. If I remember correctly, the lists included Chromium, specific B vitamins, Glutamine. I"m sorry, I don't remember them all.

Following Dr. Bernstein's Law of Small Numbers and constant amounts of CHO and PRO have really helped me to have much more mental poise. The combination of yoga for seniors and Callanetics (which is ballet exercise combined with yoga) has helped me so very, very much. And my yoghurt made from cream is one of my "happy" foods. It's just all the nicer that it helps increase GABA. Dr. B's plan recommends 6 grams of CHO and breakfast (or fewer if one wishes), and 12 grams at each lunch and supper. He leaves the amount of protein up to individual choice.

Metga, that list of foods is nice. Thanks!

[napa4us]

Nice thread! I'm gonna try this for sure. I also want to take 5-htp, but does it decrease your sex drive?? I don't want to take it if it does. I'll have to do some research.

[metqa]

I wonder does Grapefruit count? It is acidic but not acetic, but citric and ascorbic. But I heard a well ripened fruit could have had some of the sugars ferment into alcohol and then into acetic, so there may be some in a nice ripe grapefruit?...?

ETA: Maybe not. My ripe grapefruits are still really sweet tasting to me even though I think they are about to rot, from the feel of them.

[Auntie Em]

Metga, I have wondered, too, about grapefruits. They seem, for me, to have that "sour taste effect" when not too ripe, and if I only eat one or two sections.

I make a very easy form of marinated vegetables, which have that nice effect, too:

Raw cucumber slices, or frozen green beans are easy ones to use. I just put them into jars, pour in the vinegar of choice. I like a combination of malt and white vinegars. A bit of sea salt. Leave the jars on the counter all day, and put into the fridge in the evening. They don't taste the same as pickles, but are refreshing.

Beets work well, too, but they are high carb.

Once in a while, I experiment with other vegetables. I like food which needs very, very little preparation.

Yoghurt sometimes works for me, with the sour effect, sometimes not.

When the grapefruit is too ripe, it has the effect of having mistakenly eaten sugar, for me.

Citrus and tomatoes are high-sugar fruits that merely have an additional sour taste. Dr. Bernstein addresses this in his book, The Diabetes Solution.

A bit of fresh lemon juice in water often has the special, sour taste effect for me.

A few drops of vinegar on some lettuce is an easy way I use, too.

[arielwyant]

Thank you, I've had this same problem for awhile now. It settles down after a few weeks and then suddenly I do something to spark it up again. Until today I had just concluded I just hadn't eaten enough and it was a build up of hunger, but there's no way one day should cause a rebound in hunger and blood sugar that dramatically.