Gary Taubes and "Fiber" - Page 2

Dharma · 10-18-2007, 12:08 PM

I agree it's scarey, but that makes it important to pay attention to our own reactions to foods, supplements, etc., and when something makes us feel yucky, we probably shouldn't ingest it, ya know?? I've always listened to my body and had that intuitive feeling that low carb was just healthier based on how I react to carbs and sugar.

Also, hate to be gross, but it's true that you can tell how healthy your diet is by your BM's.

LouieLouie2007 · 10-18-2007, 12:14 PM

[quote=Tooter;9376229]Ok, JuliaL...Here's the Deal. The Fiber does not help in preventing cancer or diseases of the intestine. OR...For the heart. That is all a bunch of bunk.

Now, to answer your question...That's not an easy one. From what I have read so far in the book and the different studies, People did not need ANY fiber and could/would eat mainly meat and fat and be totally healthy with the absence of Modern diseases. They would get all the vitamins and nutrients from the meat that they ate. Now...I know you are saying...huh? But it seems to be true. They would get the amount of vitamin C they needed from the food and it wasn't much. That ALL changes when you factor in More carbs and the refined white ones. Somehow those took AWAY from how we could process the vitamins.

Remember the stories about guys on ships getting scurvy? How lemons cured that? Then you have other people who ate nothing but meat/fat...barely any low carb veggies and had perfect health and NO scurvy!! Why? Well...What did the Sailors eat? What Food, white flour, molasses, gruel....hardly any meat. They were the ones who got scurvy.

Ok, the healthy group?...ate Meat a few low carb roots, berries etc.... They drank the amount of water that they needed.

QUOTE]

The caveat on the meat though was that it has to be RAW! . Vitamin C is destroyed in the cooking process. Although I think it is maintained in meat dried with no heat.

Plus they ate EVERYTHING of the animal. Nothing was was wasted, not even the stomach contents.

Meowser · 10-18-2007, 12:17 PM

Grrr... I really need to get reading. Both Good Calories, Bad Calories and Fiber Menace are sitting on my book shelf waiting for me to finish the books I'm currently reading.

It's really important and confusing for me because I spent 5 days in the hospital with diverticulitis at the end of July.

yules258 · 10-18-2007, 01:56 PM

I really believe in fiber! It has done wonders for me. I have been doing the low carb woe for about 7 years. I weigh 103 and I got stuck in a binge / restricted diet cycle for 3 years. I was so restricted sunday-friday then went on an all out binge sat. This started out as a simple cheat day then it became a binge day. Sunday I spent fighting off guilt, self hatred, sugar hangover etc. I was so ill from everything I ate sat. that I could not even think of food until about 4pm. Then right back to my strict woe. Now, I already lost all my weight 7 yrs. ago and have maintained ever since. The problem with the binge was that I spent sunday-friday losing the 5 lbs. I gained from my binge. Water weight or what have you, I felt like total junk until sat. came. Then repeat....

I have tried and battled with my self for 3 yrs. to stop this cycle. I went to therapy, read every overeating book, food addiction etc. All of the sudden I started researching fiber. I began taking glucomannan 1 before every meal along with flax recipes and high fiber grains. The very first week I started this fiber diet I did not binge on sat. night. This was a huge accomplishment. Food is no longer the only thing on my mind. I actually get full and know when to stop. I don't crave all the trigger foods or sugar that I would litterally dream of during the week just waiting for sat.

I have not had a laxative effect from the fiber. I go regularly every morning. I have increased my water but that was easy. Due to the fact that you must have a lot of water when taking the glucomannan, I can get down 2 glasses with each dose. Right there is 6 glasses, I add another 2 glasses around 3:30 when I have a high fiber snack bar and what ever water I drink during the day.

I have more energy, my mood has improved and I can focus on so many different things now that my mind is not centered around food. I am no longer bloated and my weight is now a comfortable 102 ( I am a small boned 5'3). I am not trying to lose weight but I have had no problem holding steady at my current weight. I have been able to add so much variety to my diet due to the lack of restriction from my binging is now gone. I can't say enough great things about fiber.

Everyone is different, this is just my story. In some weird way, fiber saved my life (not to sound so dramatic) but my life was one big cycle that I could not get off of. I feel so much better and very powerful just knowing I concord this with something as simple as FIBER.

afuentes · 10-18-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yules258

I really believe in fiber! It has done wonders for me. I have been doing the low carb woe for about 7 years. I weigh 103 and I got stuck in a binge / restricted diet cycle for 3 years. I was so restricted sunday-friday then went on an all out binge sat. This started out as a simple cheat day then it became a binge day. Sunday I spent fighting off guilt, self hatred, sugar hangover etc. I was so ill from everything I ate sat. that I could not even think of food until about 4pm. Then right back to my strict woe. Now, I already lost all my weight 7 yrs. ago and have maintained ever since. The problem with the binge was that I spent sunday-friday losing the 5 lbs. I gained from my binge. Water weight or what have you, I felt like total junk until sat. came. Then repeat....

I have tried and battled with my self for 3 yrs. to stop this cycle. I went to therapy, read every overeating book, food addiction etc. All of the sudden I started researching fiber. I began taking glucomannan 1 before every meal along with flax recipes and high fiber grains. The very first week I started this fiber diet I did not binge on sat. night. This was a huge accomplishment. Food is no longer the only thing on my mind. I actually get full and know when to stop. I don't crave all the trigger foods or sugar that I would litterally dream of during the week just waiting for sat.

I have not had a laxative effect from the fiber. I go regularly every morning. I have increased my water but that was easy. Due to the fact that you must have a lot of water when taking the glucomannan, I can get down 2 glasses with each dose. Right there is 6 glasses, I add another 2 glasses around 3:30 when I have a high fiber snack bar and what ever water I drink during the day.

I have more energy, my mood has improved and I can focus on so many different things now that my mind is not centered around food. I am no longer bloated and my weight is now a comfortable 102 ( I am a small boned 5'3). I am not trying to lose weight but I have had no problem holding steady at my current weight. I have been able to add so much variety to my diet due to the lack of restriction from my binging is now gone. I can't say enough great things about fiber.

Everyone is different, this is just my story. In some weird way, fiber saved my life (not to sound so dramatic) but my life was one big cycle that I could not get off of. I feel so much better and very powerful just knowing I concord this with something as simple as FIBER.

I agree wholeheartedly!

jem51 · 10-18-2007, 02:04 PM

i gave up flax and psyllium and the gas that came with them. i eat lots of vegies and some nuts and fruit. barry groves (EFGT) suggested eating more fat to sort of lube the track. works like a charm. i cannot consume vast quatities of water and usually get 1 1/2-2 L/day depending on the season. more if i count my latte!

AllieCat0817 · 10-18-2007, 02:53 PM

I LOVE this thread. Not saying anyone is right vs wrong........ but reading everyone's experience is VERY helpful.

aim in Fla*working · 10-18-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma

I agree it's scarey, but that makes it important to pay attention to our own reactions to foods, supplements, etc., and when something makes us feel yucky, we probably shouldn't ingest it, ya know?? I've always listened to my body and had that intuitive feeling that low carb was just healthier based on how I react to carbs and sugar.

Also, hate to be gross, but it's true that you can tell how healthy your diet is by your BM's.

I don't "go" without Fibersure

Dreamchaser · 10-18-2007, 03:01 PM

So are we supposed to believe that vegetables are not good or necessary for our health because of the fiber? That sounds crazy! What does Gary say about vegetables? I don't get it.

LouieLouie2007 · 10-18-2007, 04:33 PM

I personally don't believe the veggies are necessary to our health at all. Fat is definitely, but not veggies. The eskimo culture is living proof of that. Now I like them very much, these veggies, but if I had to stop eating them I would. Mostly I only eat them because I cook my meat and since that destroys certain compounds, veggies become necessary as a supplement.

And I really doubt you are going to get people to espouse a completely raw meat diet these days....

Randy · 10-18-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamchaser

So are we supposed to believe that vegetables are not good or necessary for our health because of the fiber? That sounds crazy! What does Gary say about vegetables? I don't get it.

Don't know what Taubes says about vegetables, but I really doubt the fiber in 3-5 servings of vegetables a day would be harmful. But imo, most people don't need to go out of their way to take in a bunch of fiber.

Remember, the only macronutrient you can survive without is carbohydrate. And fiber IS carbohydrate.

But that still doesn't mean that low carb vegetables are not wonderful.

Chasintrail · 10-18-2007, 06:03 PM

Guys - he's not saying that fiber is harmful or that veggies are not necessary. What he is saying is that there is no definitive proof that supplementing with fiber will lower the risk of colon cancer or heart disease.

No where in the book does he make recommendations or say you should or should not eat anything. What he is doing is reviewing the research and this history of obesity and nutrition research over the last 100 years or so.

In the concluding chapter he does voice some opinions, however they are opinions on the people responsible for some of the research, and what type of research should be performed. He does mention Steffanson(?) (the guy that lived with the eskimos and ate only meat for a year) often, but does not come out and say that we should only be eating meat.

Tooter · 10-18-2007, 07:07 PM

Chasintrail is right.

He never tells you what you should do. He let's you know about the studies and all the factors (Things we weren't told about them that factor into it) and other things going on at this time.

He let's you draw your own conclusions and maybe just stimulate you to find out MORE and read more on your own. God knows the Medical profession isn't going to help us out with this. You see the manipulating because of egos to make a study look like it perfectly came out with the results they wanted for their Theories except...They didn't tell you everything. When you see and know the other factors, you realize those studies didn't say what they claimed at all.

Do I personally think Low carb veggies are bad for you? Heck no!!! They are good for you. I Love them and enjoy them.

Are some foods that have fiber bad for you? Heck no.

Is high fiber in your diet good for you? That depends. Why are you eating High fiber? Is it for your Cholesterol, your heart or for the prevention of Cancer? Because looking at those studies and the factors he has in the book...Umm... No. It's really not going to make a difference. They didn't tell us the truth about that.

If it's for your bowels, how's that working for ya? If it's working well and you have no side effects. Go for it. But I would take a multivitamin because all that fiber would interfere with the vitamin absorption. It seems that was one of the points, high carb foods do interfere with vitamin absorption. Thus the need for extra sources of vitamins (Think Sailors their diet and Scurvy and needing extra vitamin C).

Fiber IS a high carbohydrate. We just deduct the fiber from the total carb count. On the Glycemic Index (Which he talks about THAT too) it's shown as lower because it Delays (Slows down) the reaction, BUT.... You still are going to have a reaction to it. Maybe this is why My reaction to fiber was hours later instead of right away Like with the White flour,sugar and white rice.

For me? Taking the fiber, I didn't react the way I did with white flour, sugar and white rice. That was almost an instant reaction. I would react hours later with a bloat and gas, but it would have a totally different feel to it then the IBS responce with the White stuff. I chalked it up to having to slowly up my fiber etc. After all, they kept telling me I had to adjust to the fiber. Did that...Still had it. At first eating things like the fiber one...I didn't have bad reactions. Then it slowly seems to change (It also sounds like Allie is going through something similar).

Now, from what I gleaned from the Studies, if you have enough Fat in your diet, you aren't going to have a problem going to the bathroom and with constipation. You aren't going to need "Extra" fiber in your diet. At the point I added fiber? I don't think I was eating enough fat. I also was drinking Diet Soda constantly (Hey, it never interfered with weight loss or maintaining, so I thought I was just fine) and I think those two things did effect me. Thus the reason I want to go back to basics and strip my diet down to find out if this was truly what was effecting me.

Jaysma · 10-18-2007, 07:13 PM

Does he address the subject of net carbs? Just wondering if he believes in deducting the fiber from your total carb count.

Tooter · 10-18-2007, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaysma

Does he address the subject of net carbs? Just wondering if he believes in deducting the fiber from your total carb count.

No, this isn't a diet book. "Net Carbs" is a Low carb diet term. BUT...He does go into the Glycemic Index and some Studies with that.

What do I "Assume" from what he showed (without doing any farther study on my own just yet)? Well, that the Glycemic index can fool you into a false since of the higher carbs with fiber. Thinking that they have a smaller number, when it's just a delayed reaction from the fiber. At least...That's what I have "gleaned" from it so far. I've done so much reading that I need to go back and SLOWLY read it again. It's alot to absorb. lol

I don't know if My answer was helpful or not.

It's a great book, but there is so much in there, you have to read it more then once.

fawn · 10-18-2007, 08:43 PM

This is very interesting to she who consumes massive amounts of veggies a day. I personally do very well with a lot of veggies. Of course I shouldn't comment until I read the book and I do understand and agree with Dharma that you should listen to your body. However, don't confuse fiber with phytonutrients......as well, I would like to point out that if you're going to base your personal diet on that of animal protein, you darn well better be sure it's not all pumped up with hormones, antibiotics, and pesticides from the feed. Slaughterhouse beef in several feet of manure crammed in a stall being fed corn and soy are NOT going to provide you with those nutrients that come from the sun through the earth to the seed to the animal.

I guess I'm just saying keep all of this in perspective.

Dogsrule · 10-18-2007, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouieLouie2007

I personally don't believe the veggies are necessary to our health at all. Fat is definitely, but not veggies. The eskimo culture is living proof of that. Now I like them very much, these veggies, but if I had to stop eating them I would. Mostly I only eat them because I cook my meat and since that destroys certain compounds, veggies become necessary as a supplement.

And I really doubt you are going to get people to espouse a completely raw meat diet these days....

Ohhh, I think I could handle the raw meat if I weren't for food safety. Before I knew better I'd eat hamburger raw. Different cuts of steak even cube steak have mysteriously dissappeared before cooking.

Tooter · 10-19-2007, 05:00 AM

*raising my hand* Excuse me.... I had that wrong on the Glycemic index in the book. SORRY!! I have been reading so much and my mind is going a mile a minute.

Last night I re-read the part about it and then couldn't get back on the computer because the kids were using the connection for X-box live.

What he said about the Glycemic index is that it doesn't properly measure the different Sugars Oses in foods. Thus, some foods come out with a lower index when they actually are higher.

HTH

AnDee · 10-19-2007, 05:09 AM

Thread bump - I want to find this thread and read more later!

Tooter · 10-19-2007, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fawn

This is very interesting to she who consumes massive amounts of veggies a day. I personally do very well with a lot of veggies. Of course I shouldn't comment until I read the book and I do understand and agree with Dharma that you should listen to your body. However, don't confuse fiber with phytonutrients......as well, I would like to point out that if you're going to base your personal diet on that of animal protein, you darn well better be sure it's not all pumped up with hormones, antibiotics, and pesticides from the feed. Slaughterhouse beef in several feet of manure crammed in a stall being fed corn and soy are NOT going to provide you with those nutrients that come from the sun through the earth to the seed to the animal.

I guess I'm just saying keep all of this in perspective.

Oh, definately. I think what we can glean is that there are so MANY factors that play into all this. That's the point of the book. They do these studies to try and Prove their own theories, but refuse to look at all the factors involved. In fact...They try their best to keep those from us.

The point of the book is not that we should just eat meat and fat with no veggies. It was to show that in different cultures and studies People in fact had great health with no modern diseases eating that way. They got all the nutrition (vitamins, minerals) they needed from eatnig that way. WHY? We don't totally know, but it would seem it's the way the body could process the food and glean what it needed. It didn't need the amount of vitamin C we need today. What was a factor? Higher carb foods, grains etc. It must have changed the way we can process and used the foods in our bodies....maybe how much that could be absorbed in our bodies...etc. The 2 groups are vastly extreme. The africans who ate just meat and just a little low carb veggies and The sailors who ate mainly High carb sugar, starch.

There is a balance. No one is truly looking into that, because the line is drawn in the sand as to the stance people will take in "Low fat, High fat" and Low carb, high carb.

Tooter · 10-19-2007, 05:30 AM

Oh, and Fawn...I think there are alot of other factors in our lives now that would cause us to need more vitamins in our diet, and not be able to get them from just a Meat mixed with a "few" low carb veggies.

Diet soda, Artifical sweetners, Medications, Hormones in the Meat, Pesticides on our fruits and veggies and a "Host" of other things.

jezzie · 10-19-2007, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tooter

After reading the Chapter on Fiber in his book "Good Calories, bad Calories", I am so dang ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!

Let, me just say...I was having problems with going "High Fiber", I believed everything "They" told me. I kept trying to re-adjust. I believed the bit about "your body has to adjust to it" and that it was SOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo healthy for me.

I got curious about this thread after all. lol.

Maybe next year you'll read a different book and be so angry that you believed this one.

Don't be so angry.

... Life is not static.

Personally it matters not to me if you never eat fiber or if you convince thirty other people
here to not eat fiber. That's not the point to me.

My point is ...
Theories come and go and each of us as individuals need to read all we can and make
our own informed decisions. And then we will live that with that decision and be accountable
to ourselves for it.

Most of the time I think people tend to believe the studies that validate what they already
believed in the first place.

AllieCat0817 · 10-19-2007, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tooter

For me? Taking the fiber, I didn't react the way I did with white flour, sugar and white rice. That was almost an instant reaction. I would react hours later with a bloat and gas, but it would have a totally different feel to it then the IBS responce with the White stuff. I chalked it up to having to slowly up my fiber etc. After all, they kept telling me I had to adjust to the fiber. Did that...Still had it. At first eating things like the fiber one...I didn't have bad reactions. Then it slowly seems to change (It also sounds like Allie is going through something similar).
.

IBS is HELLLLLLAAAACIOUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. I have had THOROUGH scopes/exams and IBD (such as Chron's and Colitis etc) are ruled out. Had colonoscopy, ultrasounds, CT scans, gyno exams * ultrasounds etc. I know it is IBS. It is freaking HORRIFIC. I'm about to nix my flax for a while because the past week I'd been having an 'episode'. Right now I feel fine.. I pray to GOD I dont have it this weekend because I am flying out of town today.

I have found that neither soluble nor insoluble fiber HELP my abdominal pain when I am having it...

Tooter · 10-19-2007, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jezzie

I got curious about this thread after all. lol.

Maybe next year you'll read a different book and be so angry that you believed this one.

Don't be so angry.

... Life is not static.

Personally it matters not to me if you never eat fiber or if you convince thirty other people
here to not eat fiber. That's not the point to me.

My point is ...
Theories come and go and each of us as individuals need to read all we can and make
our own informed decisions. And then we will live that with that decision and be accountable
to ourselves for it.

Most of the time I think people tend to believe the studies that validate what they already
believed in the first place.

That's the point of the book that "People tend to believe the studies that validate what they already believed in the first place".

When I say that I'm "Angry", it's more of an upset at "Them" and at myself. I believed them and their studies of fiber. I believed them when they kept saying I just had to adjust to the fiber. I believed them When they said it would prevent cancer and heart disease. I believed them without looking at all the facts because they didn't show me all the facts and "I" didn't look any deeper. I wasn't "informed".

Yes, I believe we all should make up our own minds. I think we do need "all" the facts and also to do what is best for our bodies. Of coarse this may "change" over time with our bodies and with what we have learned. We all have different "factors" that play into diet and nutrition. Everyone needs to personally weigh those things and make the "better choice" for themselves according to where they are at and other factors. And...those choices could change over time, with other factors, and later end up not being a "Better Choice (Where it was earlier).

Did that make any sense? I think I need my 2nd cup of coffee!!!

My youngest son is doing low carb and he LOVES the higher fiber in his diet. It works for him. Do I t

10-18-2007, 12:14 PM	#32
LouieLouie2007 Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix Posts: 3,688 Gallery: LouieLouie2007 Stats: sprint/olympic/ironman 5'6" 32 yrs WOE: Atkins all the way baby! Start Date: April 2003/Start again April 06 post 2nd child	[quote=Tooter;9376229]Ok, JuliaL...Here's the Deal. The Fiber does not help in preventing cancer or diseases of the intestine. OR...For the heart. That is all a bunch of bunk. Now, to answer your question...That's not an easy one. From what I have read so far in the book and the different studies, People did not need ANY fiber and could/would eat mainly meat and fat and be totally healthy with the absence of Modern diseases. They would get all the vitamins and nutrients from the meat that they ate. Now...I know you are saying...huh? But it seems to be true. They would get the amount of vitamin C they needed from the food and it wasn't much. That ALL changes when you factor in More carbs and the refined white ones. Somehow those took AWAY from how we could process the vitamins. Remember the stories about guys on ships getting scurvy? How lemons cured that? Then you have other people who ate nothing but meat/fat...barely any low carb veggies and had perfect health and NO scurvy!! Why? Well...What did the Sailors eat? What Food, white flour, molasses, gruel....hardly any meat. They were the ones who got scurvy. Ok, the healthy group?...ate Meat a few low carb roots, berries etc.... They drank the amount of water that they needed. QUOTE] The caveat on the meat though was that it has to be RAW! . Vitamin C is destroyed in the cooking process. Although I think it is maintained in meat dried with no heat. Plus they ate EVERYTHING of the animal. Nothing was was wasted, not even the stomach contents. Last edited by LouieLouie2007 : 10-18-2007 at 01:08 PM.

10-18-2007, 06:03 PM	#42
Chasintrail Senior LCF Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 744 Gallery: Chasintrail Stats: 205/158/140 5'6" WOE: Eat real food! Start Date: re-induction 1/3/08 @163	Guys - he's not saying that fiber is harmful or that veggies are not necessary. What he is saying is that there is no definitive proof that supplementing with fiber will lower the risk of colon cancer or heart disease. No where in the book does he make recommendations or say you should or should not eat anything. What he is doing is reviewing the research and this history of obesity and nutrition research over the last 100 years or so. In the concluding chapter he does voice some opinions, however they are opinions on the people responsible for some of the research, and what type of research should be performed. He does mention Steffanson(?) (the guy that lived with the eskimos and ate only meat for a year) often, but does not come out and say that we should only be eating meat. __________________ Tamara http://descentintoart.blogspot.com/

10-18-2007, 07:07 PM	#43
Tooter Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 9,722 Gallery: Tooter Stats: 5' 6" and 128 lbs	Chasintrail is right. He never tells you what you should do. He let's you know about the studies and all the factors (Things we weren't told about them that factor into it) and other things going on at this time. He let's you draw your own conclusions and maybe just stimulate you to find out MORE and read more on your own. God knows the Medical profession isn't going to help us out with this. You see the manipulating because of egos to make a study look like it perfectly came out with the results they wanted for their Theories except...They didn't tell you everything. When you see and know the other factors, you realize those studies didn't say what they claimed at all. Do I personally think Low carb veggies are bad for you? Heck no!!! They are good for you. I Love them and enjoy them. Are some foods that have fiber bad for you? Heck no. Is high fiber in your diet good for you? That depends. Why are you eating High fiber? Is it for your Cholesterol, your heart or for the prevention of Cancer? Because looking at those studies and the factors he has in the book...Umm... No. It's really not going to make a difference. They didn't tell us the truth about that. If it's for your bowels, how's that working for ya? If it's working well and you have no side effects. Go for it. But I would take a multivitamin because all that fiber would interfere with the vitamin absorption. It seems that was one of the points, high carb foods do interfere with vitamin absorption. Thus the need for extra sources of vitamins (Think Sailors their diet and Scurvy and needing extra vitamin C). Fiber IS a high carbohydrate. We just deduct the fiber from the total carb count. On the Glycemic Index (Which he talks about THAT too) it's shown as lower because it Delays (Slows down) the reaction, BUT.... You still are going to have a reaction to it. Maybe this is why My reaction to fiber was hours later instead of right away Like with the White flour,sugar and white rice. For me? Taking the fiber, I didn't react the way I did with white flour, sugar and white rice. That was almost an instant reaction. I would react hours later with a bloat and gas, but it would have a totally different feel to it then the IBS responce with the White stuff. I chalked it up to having to slowly up my fiber etc. After all, they kept telling me I had to adjust to the fiber. Did that...Still had it. At first eating things like the fiber one...I didn't have bad reactions. Then it slowly seems to change (It also sounds like Allie is going through something similar). Now, from what I gleaned from the Studies, if you have enough Fat in your diet, you aren't going to have a problem going to the bathroom and with constipation. You aren't going to need "Extra" fiber in your diet. At the point I added fiber? I don't think I was eating enough fat. I also was drinking Diet Soda constantly (Hey, it never interfered with weight loss or maintaining, so I thought I was just fine) and I think those two things did effect me. Thus the reason I want to go back to basics and strip my diet down to find out if this was truly what was effecting me. __________________ "It shouldn't be a RACE to get thin. It should be a Journey to good health."

10-18-2007, 08:43 PM	#46
fawn Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 9,019 Gallery: fawn Stats: 210/120 WOE: Eating For Health Start Date: 2/2000	This is very interesting to she who consumes massive amounts of veggies a day. I personally do very well with a lot of veggies. Of course I shouldn't comment until I read the book and I do understand and agree with Dharma that you should listen to your body. However, don't confuse fiber with phytonutrients......as well, I would like to point out that if you're going to base your personal diet on that of animal protein, you darn well better be sure it's not all pumped up with hormones, antibiotics, and pesticides from the feed. Slaughterhouse beef in several feet of manure crammed in a stall being fed corn and soy are NOT going to provide you with those nutrients that come from the sun through the earth to the seed to the animal. I guess I'm just saying keep all of this in perspective. __________________ 210/120 Maintenance It's as simple as removing the refined foods from your life permanently. With that, discover what nature's bounty has to offer organically, seasonally and locally. "The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest his patient in the care of the human frame, in the diet and in the cause and prevention of disease" Thomas Edison

10-18-2007, 12:08 PM	#31
Dharma MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,643 Gallery: Dharma Stats: 175/138; now 161/153/140 WOE: Flexible	I agree it's scarey, but that makes it important to pay attention to our own reactions to foods, supplements, etc., and when something makes us feel yucky, we probably shouldn't ingest it, ya know?? I've always listened to my body and had that intuitive feeling that low carb was just healthier based on how I react to carbs and sugar. Also, hate to be gross, but it's true that you can tell how healthy your diet is by your BM's.

10-18-2007, 12:17 PM	#33
Meowser Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CT Posts: 3,705 Gallery: Meowser Stats: 2003:142/120 5'3" Current: 127/126/120 WOE: State of confusion Start Date: January 2003	Grrr... I really need to get reading. Both Good Calories, Bad Calories and Fiber Menace are sitting on my book shelf waiting for me to finish the books I'm currently reading. It's really important and confusing for me because I spent 5 days in the hospital with diverticulitis at the end of July.

10-18-2007, 01:56 PM	#34
yules258 Junior LCF Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 15 Gallery: yules258	I really believe in fiber! It has done wonders for me. I have been doing the low carb woe for about 7 years. I weigh 103 and I got stuck in a binge / restricted diet cycle for 3 years. I was so restricted sunday-friday then went on an all out binge sat. This started out as a simple cheat day then it became a binge day. Sunday I spent fighting off guilt, self hatred, sugar hangover etc. I was so ill from everything I ate sat. that I could not even think of food until about 4pm. Then right back to my strict woe. Now, I already lost all my weight 7 yrs. ago and have maintained ever since. The problem with the binge was that I spent sunday-friday losing the 5 lbs. I gained from my binge. Water weight or what have you, I felt like total junk until sat. came. Then repeat.... I have tried and battled with my self for 3 yrs. to stop this cycle. I went to therapy, read every overeating book, food addiction etc. All of the sudden I started researching fiber. I began taking glucomannan 1 before every meal along with flax recipes and high fiber grains. The very first week I started this fiber diet I did not binge on sat. night. This was a huge accomplishment. Food is no longer the only thing on my mind. I actually get full and know when to stop. I don't crave all the trigger foods or sugar that I would litterally dream of during the week just waiting for sat. I have not had a laxative effect from the fiber. I go regularly every morning. I have increased my water but that was easy. Due to the fact that you must have a lot of water when taking the glucomannan, I can get down 2 glasses with each dose. Right there is 6 glasses, I add another 2 glasses around 3:30 when I have a high fiber snack bar and what ever water I drink during the day. I have more energy, my mood has improved and I can focus on so many different things now that my mind is not centered around food. I am no longer bloated and my weight is now a comfortable 102 ( I am a small boned 5'3). I am not trying to lose weight but I have had no problem holding steady at my current weight. I have been able to add so much variety to my diet due to the lack of restriction from my binging is now gone. I can't say enough great things about fiber. Everyone is different, this is just my story. In some weird way, fiber saved my life (not to sound so dramatic) but my life was one big cycle that I could not get off of. I feel so much better and very powerful just knowing I concord this with something as simple as FIBER.

10-18-2007, 02:04 PM	#36
jem51 MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: south central OR Posts: 1,653 Gallery: jem51 Stats: oh so happy at 120 WOE: EFGT Start Date: controlled carb '97-98	i gave up flax and psyllium and the gas that came with them. i eat lots of vegies and some nuts and fruit. barry groves (EFGT) suggested eating more fat to sort of lube the track. works like a charm. i cannot consume vast quatities of water and usually get 1 1/2-2 L/day depending on the season. more if i count my latte!

10-18-2007, 02:53 PM	#37
AllieCat0817 Way too much time on my hands! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Southeastern Coastal SC Posts: 11,831 Gallery: AllieCat0817 Stats: 213.5/133.5/140 WOE: Atkins Maintenance Start Date: 5/23/03	I LOVE this thread. Not saying anyone is right vs wrong........ but reading everyone's experience is VERY helpful.

10-18-2007, 03:01 PM	#39
Dreamchaser Blabbermouth!!! Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 6,323 Gallery: Dreamchaser WOE: Atkins with whole, natural foods and no "junk"! Start Date: 3-27-01	So are we supposed to believe that vegetables are not good or necessary for our health because of the fiber? That sounds crazy! What does Gary say about vegetables? I don't get it.

10-18-2007, 04:33 PM	#40
LouieLouie2007 Very Gabby LCF Member!!! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Phoenix Posts: 3,688 Gallery: LouieLouie2007 Stats: sprint/olympic/ironman 5'6" 32 yrs WOE: Atkins all the way baby! Start Date: April 2003/Start again April 06 post 2nd child	I personally don't believe the veggies are necessary to our health at all. Fat is definitely, but not veggies. The eskimo culture is living proof of that. Now I like them very much, these veggies, but if I had to stop eating them I would. Mostly I only eat them because I cook my meat and since that destroys certain compounds, veggies become necessary as a supplement. And I really doubt you are going to get people to espouse a completely raw meat diet these days....

10-18-2007, 07:13 PM	#44
Jaysma Senior LCF Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 147 Gallery: Jaysma Stats: 187/187/150ish? (had baby on 11/4/08 @ 234 lbs.) WOE: Moderate carbs while breastfeeding Start Date: 11/29/08	Does he address the subject of net carbs? Just wondering if he believes in deducting the fiber from your total carb count.

10-19-2007, 05:00 AM	#48
Tooter Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 9,722 Gallery: Tooter Stats: 5' 6" and 128 lbs	raising my hand Excuse me.... I had that wrong on the Glycemic index in the book. SORRY!! I have been reading so much and my mind is going a mile a minute. Last night I re-read the part about it and then couldn't get back on the computer because the kids were using the connection for X-box live. What he said about the Glycemic index is that it doesn't properly measure the different Sugars Oses in foods. Thus, some foods come out with a lower index when they actually are higher. HTH

10-19-2007, 05:09 AM	#49
AnDee MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Deepest NJ Posts: 2,529 Gallery: AnDee Stats: 218/183/up 199.6/187.2 (again)...and down to.....? WOE: Uncomplicated LC Start Date: Oct. 18, 2004	Thread bump - I want to find this thread and read more later!

10-19-2007, 05:30 AM	#51
Tooter Big Yapper!!!! Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 9,722 Gallery: Tooter Stats: 5' 6" and 128 lbs	Oh, and Fawn...I think there are alot of other factors in our lives now that would cause us to need more vitamins in our diet, and not be able to get them from just a Meat mixed with a "few" low carb veggies. Diet soda, Artifical sweetners, Medications, Hormones in the Meat, Pesticides on our fruits and veggies and a "Host" of other things.