A Fantastic Flour Mix

[Tweaker Geek]

Just my 2 cents, but I think consistency is the key. I think no matter what brands we use we just need to slowly add liquids to get the consistency of batter we're looking for no matter what a particular recipe lists for the liquid component. Just think about what is being made, cake, cookie, muffin, biscuit and get the dough feel that you'd use in the old high carb baking days.

[sungoddess]

Originally Posted by Ginaaaaaa

Poor Ouis, she's probably feeling crushed by all this mayhem over her mix.

I really think that it has more to do with the consistency of the batter. You said you let your batter sit to see if you could add more liquid, but why would you want to add more if it was too thin already?

I never let my batter sit after adding the liquid but even if I did I wouldn't want to add more liquid after it sat, even if it did get thicker.
The only time I would add more liquid is if I visibly see dry mix or its really thick and not mixing well.

I hope Ouiz knows we are trying to iron out any kinks ahead of time so that everyone finds an element of success with her mix. If it is an issue with brands of ingredients, it is good to know that now as that is something that can be dealt with.I didn't mean to cause mayhem at all.

I think I mis-wrote what I was trying to say.

The recipe called for 2 cups of water, I think ( I can't go back and look right now). So I was going to put in what the recipe called for because that is what worked for others successfully.
I have made the muffins almost daily so I thought the batter should be about the same texture and I could see after a cup or so of pouring in the liquid that it was going to be too thin if I continued with more. So I didn't add more. I let it sit a bit to see if it absorbed more, because I was almost a cup shy of what the recipe called for. Like someone else said, I was going by what a recipe said, and not my gut instincts.
Because I didn't think it should be any thinner and it looked right where it was, I did not put all the liquid in. I meant to say it looked like it was going to be too thin if I added more liquid. I didn't add it. I was able to spread the batter in the pan with a spatula. Sorry I did not explain that clearly.

[Ginaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by Tweaker Geek

Just my 2 cents, but I think consistency is the key. I think no matter what brands we use we just need to slowly add liquids to get the consistency of batter we're looking for no matter what a particular recipe lists for the liquid component. Just think about what is being made, cake, cookie, muffin, biscuit and get the dough feel that you'd use in the old high carb baking days.

That's exactly what I've been saying!

[Ginaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by sungoddess

I hope Ouiz knows we are trying to iron out any kinks ahead of time so that everyone finds an element of success with her mix. If it is an issue with brands of ingredients, it is good to know that now as that is something that can be dealt with.I didn't mean to cause mayhem at all.

I think I mis-wrote what I was trying to say.

The recipe called for 2 cups of water, I think ( I can't go back and look right now). So I was going to put in what the recipe called for because that is what worked for others successfully.
I have made the muffins almost daily so I thought the batter should be about the same texture and I could see after a cup or so of pouring in the liquid that it was going to be too thin if I continued with more. So I didn't add more. I let it sit a bit to see if it absorbed more, because I was almost a cup shy of what the recipe called for. Like someone else said, I was going by what a recipe said, and not my gut instincts.
Because I didn't think it should be any thinner and it looked right where it was, I did not put all the liquid in. I meant to say it looked like it was going to be too thin if I added more liquid. I didn't add it. I was able to spread the batter in the pan with a spatula. Sorry I did not explain that clearly.

I didn't think you caused the mayhem, other people have problems figuring out the liquid amounts too, not just you.

As far as the different brands, like I said, people are going to have to figure out how much liquid their brands need for it to work. Unless we all buy the same brands we can't possibly say exactly how much liquid to use, its not a one size fits all deal.

When Ouis's flour mix goes to market she will use whatever ingredient brands she chooses, then we all can work with it and figure out the liquid amounts to use. If you think about it, it will actually make things easier because we will all be using the same exact mix.

I think you must have used too much liquid as you say your cake came out overly moist and gummy that would lead me to believe there was too much liquid added.

[ouizoid]

Originally Posted by sungoddess

I hope Ouiz knows we are trying to iron out any kinks ahead of time so that everyone finds an element of success with her mix. If it is an issue with brands of ingredients, it is good to know that now as that is something that can be dealt with.I didn't mean to cause mayhem at all. .

Please don't any of you worry about me! I am in conversations with the manufacturer who wants to know about specific brands of products to use, so this discussion is of great interest to me. I am still a bit concerned about how much intuition seems to be necessary with this flour, but it seems as if the good outcomes make it all worth it. I hate the idea of someone using it, having it all go wrong and think it is a bad product, so the more bugs this team can work out in advance the better!

I so appreciate everyone who contributes to this thread--


p.s. I have a big conference coming up in Europe in 6 weeks to prepare for--so if ever I am not around, you will know why!

xoxo

Ouis

[Mistizoom]

Originally Posted by sungoddess

I am using:

Sun Opta canadian harvest oat fiber (from Honeyville)
Coconut Secret Raw Coconut Flour
Honeyville egg white powder
Nutrabio Glucomannan
Rumford Baking Powder
Whey Factors natural whey protein (some of you are using isolate- does that make a difference?)

I haven't tried the cake but I've made muffins, donut holes and pancakes using Whey Factors brand and they came out fine.

[sungoddess]

Originally Posted by ouizoid

Please don't any of you worry about me! I am in conversations with the manufacturer who wants to know about specific brands of products to use, so this discussion is of great interest to me. I am still a bit concerned about how much intuition seems to be necessary with this flour, but it seems as if the good outcomes make it all worth it. I hate the idea of someone using it, having it all go wrong and think it is a bad product, so the more bugs this team can work out in advance the better!

I so appreciate everyone who contributes to this thread--


p.s. I have a big conference coming up in Europe in 6 weeks to prepare for--so if ever I am not around, you will know why!

xoxo

Ouis

Thank you Ouis!! That is exactly the reason I brought this up. Good luck on your big conference and check in when you can!

[Ginaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by ouizoid

Please don't any of you worry about me! I am in conversations with the manufacturer who wants to know about specific brands of products to use, so this discussion is of great interest to me. I am still a bit concerned about how much intuition seems to be necessary with this flour, but it seems as if the good outcomes make it all worth it. I hate the idea of someone using it, having it all go wrong and think it is a bad product, so the more bugs this team can work out in advance the better!

I so appreciate everyone who contributes to this thread--


p.s. I have a big conference coming up in Europe in 6 weeks to prepare for--so if ever I am not around, you will know why!

xoxo

Ouis

Well, since you brought it up, my brands seem to be working amazingly well!! LOL

I do think that different brands behave differently and it does take some acknowledgment on how much liquid to add. Some brands may need more liquid than some, so it helps to know how thick or thin a batter needs to be.

For me, I've found that cake and muffin batters need to be thicker than normal batters otherwise the final outcome is too mushy and gummy. I remember when I tried the very first chocolate low calorie muffin you posted way back and it came out mushy and gummy, I thought it was the recipe but I now realize it was the amount of liquid I used was too much.

I love this mix and I really don't care what brands you use, I will adapt, but you should seriously consider the ones I use! lol

Here they are for your convienience.


2 Tbs Oatfiber-LifeSource Foods
Oat Fiber 500
2 Tbs Coconut Flour-Coconut Secret
Raw Coconut Flour
1 Tbs vanilla protein powder-NOW Whey Protein Isolate
1 Tbs eggwhite powder-Deb El
1/2 tsp baking powder-Bob's Red Mill Baking Powder
1/2 tsp glucomannan powder-NOW
Glucomannan


I'm just kidding, I think whatever brands you go with will work. Good luck at your conference, we should have this all ironed out by then!!

[Ginaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by Mistizoom

I haven't tried the cake but I've made muffins, donut holes and pancakes using Whey Factors brand and they came out fine.

See this is what leads me to believe its a liquid amount problem and not a brand problem. Thanks for letting us know! Since you use the same brand as sungoddess and have no problems I'm thinking you've figured out the liquid amounts to use for your mix.

Well, I guess it would be liquid problem and a brand problem lol

I think until Ouis gets her mix to market, everyone needs to figure out how much liquid their own mix needs.

[ouizoid]

Y'all know that once it gets made you will all get a bag to test, right!? We gotta get this right! Group effort!

[Ginaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by ouizoid

Y'all know that once it gets made you will all get a bag to test, right!? We gotta get this right! Group effort!

That right! All for one, one for all!!

[sungoddess]

Originally Posted by Mistizoom

I haven't tried the cake but I've made muffins, donut holes and pancakes using Whey Factors brand and they came out fine.

That's great. And my muffins, mini cakes, donut holes, pancakes, waffles, and cookies have all turned out fine as well. I just usually follow my own recipes. So something in one of my ingredients absorbs fluids in a different way than some of the other folks experience, and I will simply ignore the amounts of water /fluids people post in their recipes in the future.

[ouizoid]

Originally Posted by sungoddess

That's great. And my muffins, mini cakes, donut holes, pancakes, waffles, and cookies have all turned out fine as well. I just usually follow my own recipes. So something in one of my ingredients absorbs fluids in a different way than some of the other folks experience, and I will simply ignore the amounts of water /fluids people post in their recipes in the future.

Take notes on what you do. Your experience is important.

[Ginaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by sungoddess

That's great. And my muffins, mini cakes, donut holes, pancakes, waffles, and cookies have all turned out fine as well. So something in one of my ingredients absorbs fluids in a different way than some of the other folks experience, and I will simply ignore the amounts of water people post in their recipes in the future.

I think that's a good idea, until we get Ouis final mix we won't be able to use exact amounts of liquids in recipes. I'm sorry my recipe failed you! I wish we had figured this out before you'd made it.

I'm glad Callie's came out good otherwise I would have really been bumming about it.

[rosethorns]

Originally Posted by Tweaker Geek

Just my 2 cents, but I think consistency is the key. I think no matter what brands we use we just need to slowly add liquids to get the consistency of batter we're looking for no matter what a particular recipe lists for the liquid component. Just think about what is being made, cake, cookie, muffin, biscuit and get the dough feel that you'd use in the old high carb baking days.

I agree with this totally. I look to get the consistency I want for what I trying to acheive. This is so much fun.Just to come up with different wonderful recipes.

[Tweaker Geek]

Originally Posted by rosethorns

I agree with this totally. I look to get the consistency I want for what I trying to acheive. This is so much fun.Just to come up with different wonderful recipes.

This is fun! Kind of hard to believe we're all losing weight, or maintaining as the case may be, and eating all these wonderful baked goods! This is certainly not a WOL that deprives us of anything!

[watcher513]

I think that it's going to be very important that when posting a recipe, we say what the consistency should be like, and definitely add liquids slowly, a bit at a time to achieve that specified consistency. This seems to be a key point.

Wonderful stuff.

[drjlocarb]

Originally Posted by Soobee

Is there a difference in absorbability between coconut flour and raw coconut flour? Like Barbo, I'd be much more suspicious of the coconut flour.

I agree.

We do know different coconut flours act different. There are also some with different fat content from what I recall. If they have different absorbability, wouldn't they have different RATES of absorbency? The same consistency of the batter doesn't mean the water is absorbed into the flour. That would mean the baked product might be gooey because the water never got absorbed into the flour. Does that make sense?

[catnmouse]

I just made your cake, I used pumpkin divinci , xyanthun gum, didn't have gluccoman.
It was amazing. I am totally going to make a big batch of flour up now!

I was wondering can I use this flour as a regular size cake in the oven?

I just started low carbing again, and this will help feed my sweet tooth.

Thanks

[Deb34]

Originally Posted by sungoddess

I am convinced that brands of the ingredients used in the flour mix must make a big difference in some of the final products, depending on what is being made. I made Gina's yellow cake exactly per the directions and the end result is overly moist and gummy all the way through. I used everything the same- no substitutions. I used xylitol, whole milk powder, buttery vanilla emulsion, butter and large eggs, etc. The batter couldn't absorb all of the liquid in the recipe. The cake was in the oven 55 minutes and still not done. ( I use an oven thermometer so it was right on target for temp). After it cooled down and set a few hours, I cut out a piece and it was just dense and gummy. Not a cake-like texture at all.

I don't know why this happens other than the brands of ingredients used. Boo hoo, I am bummed.

maybe peoples geographical elevation and air humidity have something to do with this. Don't some people at higher elevations have to make adjustments to ingredients and baking times? Also, results can vary widely depending on whether you are in a dry climate or a humid one.

For myself, I live at 42 feet above sea level on the shores of one of the Great Lakes and winter and summer the air always carries a ton of moisture.

[shirlc]

Originally Posted by Deb34

maybe peoples geographical elevation and air humidity have something to do with this. Don't some people at higher elevations have to make adjustments to ingredients and baking times? Also, results can vary widely depending on whether you are in a dry climate or a humid one.

For myself, I live at 42 feet above sea level on the shores of one of the Great Lakes and winter and summer the air always carries a ton of moisture.

Good point!!!

[PaminKY]

Originally Posted by Callieco

I was just reading another thread about some packaged flours so I went to Netrition and checked the ingredients. They had wheat gluten, which I don't mind so much but kind of tastes funny, and flax seed, which seems to be a go to ingredient for a lot of recipes and mixes and which I absolutely despise. So I just want to say thank you again Ouizoid for coming up with this flour and not putting flax in it.

Also why I love this mix, NO FLAX. I've tried and tried to like flax but the only thing I can tolerate a bit in is my fake graham cracker crust recipe and a cracker recipe I use. I can't stand that weird feel against my teeth.


I've got a recipe all ready to try but something has always come up to interrupt me but I'm hoping to give it a whirl tonight. If successful I will post the recipe and try to get a pic.

One thing I've found helps baked goods that contain glucomannan is while the batter is still somewhat pourable to go ahead and pour that batter into whatever pan I'm using and then let it sit for about 5 minutes before popping into the oven. This lets the glucomannan fully hydrate and helps the texture of the finished product.

I can tell the difference when I don't let it sit.

[Ginaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

I agree.

We do know different coconut flours act different. There are also some with different fat content from what I recall. If they have different absorbability, wouldn't they have different RATES of absorbency? The same consistency of the batter doesn't mean the water is absorbed into the flour. That would mean the baked product might be gooey because the water never got absorbed into the flour. Does that make sense?

I'm not sure I follow this. Are you saying it takes longer for some coconut flours to absorb liquid? How does that work then? Should some let their mix sit after mixing in the liquid to see if it needs more or are you saying that the liquid never gets fully absorbed so it will always come out gooey?

It still wouldn't apply to Sungoddess's problem with my cake recipe failing because she uses the same coconut flour as I do.

[Ginaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by PaminKY

Also why I love this mix, NO FLAX. I've tried and tried to like flax but the only thing I can tolerate a bit in is my fake graham cracker crust recipe and a cracker recipe I use. I can't stand that weird feel against my teeth.


I've got a recipe all ready to try but something has always come up to interrupt me but I'm hoping to give it a whirl tonight. If successful I will post the recipe and try to get a pic.

One thing I've found helps baked goods that contain glucomannan is while the batter is still somewhat pourable to go ahead and pour that batter into whatever pan I'm using and then let it sit for about 5 minutes before popping into the oven. This lets the glucomannan fully hydrate and helps the texture of the finished product.

I can tell the difference when I don't let it sit.

I can't wait to see your new recipe and pic!!

I've never let my batter sit but maybe this has something to do with what Soobee and drjlocarb were talking about.

[Charski]

Originally Posted by ouizoid

Y'all know that once it gets made you will all get a bag to test, right!? We gotta get this right! Group effort!

Uh oh - guess I'd better mix up some of this amazing stuff and start experimenting or I'll never get a free bag!!

I'm kidding - but I DO want to try this out. I've just not taken the time yet, but there are some AMAZING-sounding (and looking!) things coming from all these wonderful experiments.

There will always be variations in end results - oven temps vary, measuring methods vary, ingredients vary - so what works for one may not work for the next person. But those who have experience with baking, following their instincts as to how the batter should look before baking, seem to be having some good successes. I will follow this mantra when I get around to trying it!

[Ginaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by Charski

Uh oh - guess I'd better mix up some of this amazing stuff and start experimenting or I'll never get a free bag!!

I'm kidding - but I DO want to try this out. I've just not taken the time yet, but there are some AMAZING-sounding (and looking!) things coming from all these wonderful experiments.

There will always be variations in end results - oven temps vary, measuring methods vary, ingredients vary - so what works for one may not work for the next person. But those who have experience with baking, following their instincts as to how the batter should look before baking, seem to be having some good successes. I will follow this mantra when I get around to trying it!

I think you will really love this mix when you do try it!

I've had nothing but great results with this mix. For me its like being able to use regular flour again. My yellow cake has the texture and taste(using bakery emulsion)of real cake. I always have my kids taste the pizza and cakes when I get results that live up to the high carb foods, just to make sure its not just me and they have loved the pizza and cake that I've made and they thought the cake was a regular yellow cake.

I love having a biscuit with breakfast and a quick muffin in the microwave. I wouldn't ever go back to using almond flour and flax again. Well I might use some almond flour in cookies to get a crispier outcome but this flour is da bomb!!

I'm finding out that this works as a great thickener too. People have used it for coating meats, but I haven't tried it yet.

[sungoddess]

Originally Posted by PaminKY

Also why I love this mix, NO FLAX. I've tried and tried to like flax but the only thing I can tolerate a bit in is my fake graham cracker crust recipe and a cracker recipe I use. I can't stand that weird feel against my teeth.


I've got a recipe all ready to try but something has always come up to interrupt me but I'm hoping to give it a whirl tonight. If successful I will post the recipe and try to get a pic.

One thing I've found helps baked goods that contain glucomannan is while the batter is still somewhat pourable to go ahead and pour that batter into whatever pan I'm using and then let it sit for about 5 minutes before popping into the oven. This lets the glucomannan fully hydrate and helps the texture of the finished product.

I can tell the difference when I don't let it sit.

That's what I have found too. Can't wait for the new recipe!

I have scouted about on some different blogs and see that consistent recipe results can sometimes be problematical with coconut flour. Although in my case, I use the same coconut flour as Gina.

One lady posted: you need to be careful how you store your flour. CF exposed to moisture, due to its high fiber content absorbs water.
Hmmm...I removed my coconut flour from the can it came in so it fit where I had room in the cupboard. I wonder if it already had absorbed too much moisture?

One lady who has a nutrition gluten-free blog wrote:
I have found that different brands of coconut flour yield very different results. Most of my coconut flour creations needed to be composted until I began using a different brand of coconut flour. I have had best results using the xxxxxxx brand of coconut flour.

One baker’s tip: When making cakes, pancakes, muffins, etc… with coconut flour, whipping the egg whites separately (to almost a foam) then folding them in with the mixture will help with “fluffiness”. One found that it can “lighten” baked goods.

Anyway I was out today and I got Bob’s coconut flour. I am going to make the yellow cake again and see if it makes a difference. I will make half a recipe. My goal is to make marble cake and I really like the cake flavor the emulsions provide to make it taste like cake.

[Ginaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by sungoddess

That's what I have found too. Can't wait for the new recipe!

I have scouted about on some different blogs and see that consistent recipe results can sometimes be problematical with coconut flour. Although in my case, I use the same coconut flour as Gina.

One lady posted: you need to be careful how you store your flour. CF exposed to moisture, due to its high fiber content absorbs water.
Hmmm...I removed my coconut flour from the can it came in so it fit where I had room in the cupboard. I wonder if it already had absorbed too much moisture?

One lady who has a nutrition gluten-free blog wrote:
I have found that different brands of coconut flour yield very different results. Most of my coconut flour creations needed to be composted until I began using a different brand of coconut flour. I have had best results using the xxxxxxx brand of coconut flour.

One baker’s tip: When making cakes, pancakes, muffins, etc… with coconut flour, whipping the egg whites separately (to almost a foam) then folding them in with the mixture will help with “fluffiness”. One found that it can “lighten” baked goods.

Anyway I was out today and I got Bob’s coconut flour. I am going to make the yellow cake again and see if it makes a difference. I will make half a recipe. My goal is to make marble cake and I really like the cake flavor the emulsions provide to make it taste like cake.

Thats interesting, I've stored my coconut flour in the fridge and cupboard and never noticed a difference in my baked foods. I'm sticking with the coconut secret since it works great for me.

I hope the bobs red mill coconut flour works better for you!! Let us know how it goes.

[PaminKY]

Don't you just love those bakery emulsions. I'm planning on using the lemon one tonight.

[Callieco]

Originally Posted by sungoddess

Anyway I was out today and I got Bob’s coconut flour. I am going to make the yellow cake again and see if it makes a difference. I will make half a recipe. My goal is to make marble cake and I really like the cake flavor the emulsions provide to make it taste like cake.

I'm curious to see what the texture of your cake is like. I have used Bob's Red Mill coconut flour for most of what I make. I bought two others and have been using those just to see if the taste is less noticeable. Doesn't seem to be any difference in smell and taste so I was going to stick to Bob's.

When I made Gina's yellow cake I used Nutiva coconut flour, and I got a texture more like a pound cake so can't wait to hear how yours turns out Sungoddess.

Interesting...the Nutiva and the Bobs have same amount of fat but Nutiva has 11 carbs/8 fiber per 2 TBL while Bobs has 8 carbs/5 fiber per 2 TBL. Same net carbs and but Bobs is 60 cal, 2g protein and 1g sugar while Nutiva is 45 cal, 4g protein and 3 sugars. Both are organic. That's quite a difference.

Well I just discovered why. 2 TBL of Nutiva weighs 18 grams while 2 TBL of Bob's weighs 14 grams. I wonder if the heavier weight of the Nutiva is what caused my cake to be heavier in texture.