for LoCarbman Newtame

[mac24312]

Hey LCF

Another question...HOT Water ( I am using Spring water) or HOT Veg Gly for Surclose Powder and WARM Vegetable Glycerine for the Neotame Powder?

I am getting ready to mix up both to try.. :]

[locarbman]

Hi M ;-)

Mixing Neotame and Sucralose powders with Vegetable Glycerine:

I have used room temperature VG for both Sucralose and Neotame powder solutions successfully.

Mixing Neotame and Sucralose powders with water:

Although hot water is recommended for both Sucralose and Neotame powders, I have had no problem mixing either in cool water. However, you may find Soobee's experience with cool water here (page#2 post#75)...may be a good idea to heat the water some and shake your solution to insure that the powder fully dissolves...

Have Fun! ;-)

[locarbman]

Bump for sisterzu... ;-)

[Harpmaker]

Thanks to all the folks that have participated in this thread! Especially locarbman!!!

I'm diabetic and drink a LOT of diet cola and other carbonated drinks (our well water doesn't taste very good). I have thought about making my own carbonated beverages, but the work entailed in emptying ~45 packets of Equal or Splenda for a gallons worth of syrup (syrup to make a gallon of diet drink) got old quick and I wasn't saving much, if any, cost over store-brand 2 liter bottles of pop.

If my calculations are right, an ounce of Neotame would provide me about a 50 week supply of diet beverages (I told you I drink a LOT ). The one question I have at the moment is do I have to use 100% VG as a base, or can I dilute that with distilled water and not affect the keeping quality of the solution (don't want nasty things growing in my sweetener!)?

Another thought is instead of making a 2% Neotame solution with VG to rather make a 4% or even 8% solution and then dilute with water as needed before making the gallons worth of syrup.

2 ml (or cc) of 2% solution will sweeten 1/2 gallon of beverage to my desired level. The reason for not using the 4% or 8% solution directly is the ease of measuring the 2% solution.

I'm currently using a SodaStream carbonator, but while it works well it only makes a liter at a time and is quite expensive. I intend on making my own carbonation system later this year. If anyone is interested I will be more than happy to share my design. This isn't spam, honest! I won't be selling anything!!! I'll only detail how I build my carbonator - and that assumes anyone cares to know.

[locarbman]

Hi Harpmaker,

"The one question I have at the moment is do I have to use 100% VG as a base, or can I dilute that with distilled water and not affect the keeping quality of the solution (don't want nasty things growing in my sweetener!)?"

VG/water solutions sound reasonable, it’s worth a try…I find that refrigerating my water based solutions is a satisfactory means for preventing ‘nasty things’ ;-) from growing’ over extended periods. 100% Vegetable Glycerine based solutions merely offer the convenience of keeping them in the cupboard or on my kitchen counter without refrigeration. I have not tried VG/water dilutions yet but they may work for you, let us know if you give them a try.

"Another thought is instead of making a 2% Neotame solution with VG to rather make a 4% or even 8% solution and then dilute with water as needed before making the gallons worth of syrup."

This sounds like a reasonable approach…

As for carbonated drinks, you may find post #6 of this thread interesting:

Homemade "Zevia" for $1

Looking forward to your carbonation system results!

Hope this helps and welcome to our Board! Locarbman.. ;-)

[Soobee]

Harpmaker, I would definitely like to hear about your experiments.

[rosethorns]

Harpmaker you go girl! I can't wait to hear how you do this.
I'm also a big drinker of diet soda and water.

Let the experments begin.

[Harpmaker]

Thanks for the replies Soobee and rosethorns.

One little correction, and it's my fault since I haven't uploaded a forum avatar yet, but I'm a guy.

The major cost of my carbonator will be the CO2 tank and the regulator, but even if not shopping for price I expect everything (including gas hose, fittings and secondary valve) will be less that $150. If you DO shop around, way less. This also includes enough CO2 to carbonate many, many times the beverages of 3 or 4 SodaStream CO2 canisters. When I get things more sorted out I'll start a thread about the build.

I want to be clear that I'm NOT slamming the SodaStream systems, they are great for what they are and I'm glad I bought mine; but when you carbonate to the max (I do like my drinks fizzy) you don't get as many liters out of one of their canisters as nominally specified.

[diwitch]

You guys never cease to amaze me. I would love to know how the carbonator building is going.

I can never decide if hanging out here is like being on the set of a food network show or the science channel.

You guys are awesome.

Di

[Harpmaker]

Oh man! I just realized that I didn't thank locarbman for his reply! Sorry about that, sometimes the old brain works and sometimes it doesn't.

[locarbman]

Originally Posted by Harpmaker

Oh man! I just realized that I didn't thank locarbman for his reply! Sorry about that, sometimes the old brain works and sometimes it doesn't.

LOL! No problem! ;-)

My favorite T-shirt slogan now is:

At my age, "I know everything"...just can't remember it all at once...

[Harpmaker]

I would like to update this thread with my findings and to suggest a Neotame mix that is easy to assemble and will last without refrigeration.

The mix consists of:
1 oz. Neotame dissolved in
24 fluid ounces vegetable glycerin
24 fluid ounces 80 proof Vodka

This makes a 2% Neotame solution that approximately equals 1 cup of sugar per 1/4 teaspoon of solution.

The mix breaks down like this: 50% glycerine, 20% ethanol and 30% water.

Chemically glycerin is also known as glycerol since it is an alcohol, but there seems to be a lot of debate on the subject. Let's just say glycerine isn't in the same class of alcohol as ethanol and many "alcohol free" solutions of sweeteners and liquid vitamins are made with a glycerine base.

I wanted to make a mix that would not need refrigeration and last several years. My research into glycerine came up inconclusive when it came to using a glycerine/water solution, but ethanol solutions of as low as 60% have been found to kill germs. I figure that the 50% glycerine/20% ethanol = 70% alcohol with the ethanol and water thinning the mix so it can be used easily out of a dropper or a dropper bottle while maintaining an alcohol content high enough to prevent nasties from growing in it at room temperature. So far so good.

I could have used 100% glycerine, but I found it too thick.

I highly suggest that you wear some form of latex or nitril gloves when you mix this solution, and a dust mask or even a respirator would not be overkill. The Neotame powder is VERY strong. I simply cut one end off my packet of Neotame and poured it into my container of glycerine/vodka and some of the powder became airborne. It got into my nose and eyes giving me a bit of a histamine reaction (nothing serious, but a bit uncomfortable). It also got on my hands/arms/face so that I could still lick them several days later and it tasted like I was licking a sugar bowl.

My recommended technique of mixing the Neotame powder into the glycerine/vodka liquid is to hold back some of the vodka (Neotame is VERY soluble in alcohol) and to cut off a small corner of the packet and inject several fluid ounces of vodka into the packet to dissolve the Neotame. Pour that solution into your main container of glycerine/vodka. Repeat this at least one more time to get as much Neotame out of the packet as possible.

I'm still experimenting with the 2% Neotame solution, but I find that it has a strong sweetness effect that fades fairly quickly. I find it helps to add another sweetener such as sucralose of stevia to better simulate the taste of real sugar.

[Soobee]

Thanks for the research update. I use a neotane and glycerine solution. So far, no trouble with it going bad, but I will keep your ethanol recipe in mind. I like neotane with ice cream recipes and chocolate. Like you, I find a mix of sweeteners best.

[Harpmaker]

I need to have my Neotame solution be thin enough so it can drop from a 15 ml squeeze bottle and the 100% glycerine solution was just too thick. If the viscosity of the all glycerine solution isn't a problem it too should keep for a very long time even if non-refrigerated.

[Xexist]

Sorry to bump this thread but I have just spent the last hour or more reading every single post. For those of you who invested the money in the product, do you still use it or is there better to be had out there? Also I never saw mention of where you were getting it from? Frankly I dont need it to be all that fancy, its only for sweetening teas and coffees. I was looking into Sweetzfree which brought me too this forum

Any suggestions on the best way to come up with a liquid solution similar to sweetzfree using Newtame (ie 1 drop = 1.5-2 tsp) ? Also once it is mixed, what are people using to dispense it?

Once again, apologising for wasting my first post on a bump!

[locarbman]

Hi Xexist,

You may find this thread helpful:

The ‘easiest’ way to mix Sucralose powder and Neotame powder solutions! ;-)

I would mix my solutions per the above thread for a Sucralose powder or Neotame powder solution equivalent to Sweetzfree.

From post #53 and #54 of this thread:

Liquid Stevia ;-)

"I also got some tipped and capped squirt bottles, complete with ounce markers) at a beauty supply store for .89 a piece. Walgreens also gave me syringes for free from the pharmacy department that measure in fractions of teaspoons. I just put the syringe into the sweetner container and suck up the amount I need. NO spilling - - EVER! I love it. I have been doing that with liquid splenda for quite some time."

I found some clear plastic ketchup and mustard bottles in the cookware section of my supermarket that I really like. They have a red and a yellow very pointed tops with little caps attached and are made by the Arrow Plastic Mfg. Co. of Elk Grove, Ill. 60007 (Items #00065 and #00066) I store my liquid Stevia in the yellow one and my liquid Splenda in the red. I have never used eyedroppers...just count the drops from these containers or fill my measuring spoons...they work great.

I've purchased empty glass bottles and eye droppers from a local health food store... found them back where they have all the bulk spices, in several different sizes/colors. I use blue for liquid Splenda and amber for liquid Stevia.

Hope this helps...locarbman ;-)

[kalatraza]

Masters of the sweetner world, what's your go-to blend of sweetners for a chocolate ice cream these days? (Heck, I'll take your whole recipe.) I haven't tried the neotame route yet but maybe that's the way to go.

[jlp2009]

Has anyone seen any new studies on this regarding health issues associated with it?
I see that it is similar to Nutrasweet and that one seems to be the worst of the artificial
sweeteners from what I have read.
Is anyone still using this and how do you like it?
I don't see it listed on product packaging.
(thanks Locarbman for including the links to information about this product).

[locarbman]

Hi kalatraza,

I upgraded from my 1.5qt Cuisinart Ice Cream Machine last year to their new 2 quart model with an extra freezer bowl...freezes my ice cream in only 25 minutes ;-) and, the extra bowl is quite useful for quickly making more ice cream or different recipes when I have guests...

Here is my recipe: (have enjoyed it since 2003 ;-)

Basic Sugar Free Syrup Ice Cream Recipe (1.5 quart):

2c Heavy Cream (13.2 carbs)
1c DaVinci, Atkins, or Torani Sugar Free Syrup, choice of many flavors (0 carbs)
3c Sugar equivalent sweetener (3/4t liquid Sucralose 0 carbs)
2T Vegetable Glycerine (0 carbs) [keeps ice cream spoonable from the freezer]
3T Lecithin Granules (1.5 carbs) [a fat emulsifier or 3 egg yolks (also fat emulsifiers) for a custard mix]
1/4t Xanthan Gum (0 carbs) [for a smoother texture]
1/8t Salt (0 carbs)

You may wish to add 1/3c pecan bits and 1/3c SF chocolate chips or 1 cup of fruit to your ice cream. [I like to use DaVinci Blueberry SF Syrup with 1 cup frozen Blueberries ;-)]

I mix all ingredients in a 4 cup measuring cup with a hand mixer and freeze in my 2qt Cuisinart ice cream maker (more capacity than the 1.5qt model, no problem now with added ingredients causing ice cream to spill out of the freezer bowl ;-). I add nuts and chips, or fruit shortly after the freezing begins. Makes ~4 cups of ice cream that will be spoonable days later, right from the freezer...only 14.7 carbs...without the nuts, chips and fruit of course... ;-)

For chocolate ice cream, I use DaVinci Sugar Free Chocolate Syrup and add 4 squares of Hershey’s Unsweetened Baking Chocolate (8 net carbs) to the Heavy Whipping Cream, warm until the chocolate melts,then add other ingredients and cool before placing in my ice cream machine.

As for sweeteners, I enjoy them all, you need to find those that taste good to you. Many find that a blend of sweeteners have a synergistic effect for a more sugary taste.

Have Fun!

locarbman...;-)

[locarbman]

Originally Posted by jlp2009

Has anyone seen any new studies on this regarding health issues associated with it?
I see that it is similar to Nutrasweet and that one seems to be the worst of the artificial
sweeteners from what I have read.
Is anyone still using this and how do you like it?
I don't see it listed on product packaging.
(thanks Locarbman for including the links to information about this product).

Hi JP,

The best info I have regarding safety of Neotame is contained in post #12 of this thread. Both Neotame and Aspartame are produced by NutraSweet, however the CSPI site gives a 'thumbs up' for Neotame and a 'caution' for Aspartame (only a problem for phenylkinetics(sp? ;-)

Hope this helps...I have used Neotame every day in my coffee since February 2009 and really enjoy it! Also works very well in my ice creams...

locarbman...;-)

[Xexist]

Originally Posted by locarbman

Hi JP,

The best info I have regarding safety of Neotame is contained in post #12 of this thread. Both Neotame and Aspartame are produced by NutraSweet, however the CSPI site gives a 'thumbs up' for Neotame and a 'caution' for Aspartame (only a problem for phenylkinetics)

Hope this helps...I have used Neotame every day in my coffee since February 2009 and really enjoy it! Also works very well in my ice creams...

locarbman...;-)

Have you ordered more since 2009 or are you still using up those first couple ounces? LOL. Once I run out of splenda I would totally consider this to sweeten baking.

My one question is using sugar (or splenda) in baking, does it have any other purpose than sweetness? I mean, is sugar needed to maintain the structure of what you are baking or in most cases are you pretty much free to add just a couple drops of concentrated sweetner? The change in volume of the ingredients wont hurt anything?

[locarbman]

Originally Posted by Xexist

Have you ordered more since 2009 or are you still using up those first couple ounces? LOL. Once I run out of splenda I would totally consider this to sweeten baking.

My one question is using sugar (or splenda) in baking, does it have any other purpose than sweetness? I mean, is sugar needed to maintain the structure of what you are baking or in most cases are you pretty much free to add just a couple drops of concentrated sweetner? The change in volume of the ingredients wont hurt anything?

LOL! Yes, I have ordered 4 more ounces for family and friends, still have 2 ounces in my cupboard...guess I'm covered...for a while ;-)

As for using it in cooking, at 8,000 times as sweet as sugar, you would use a very small amount for sweetening. For baking, I recommend using a sugar alcohol (for substance to replace sugar) and Neotame (only for enhanced sweetening).

Hope this helps...

locarbman...;-)

[kalatraza]

Locarbman --

Thanks for the reply! I actually used your recipe a long time ago and happened to make it again last night. Haven't ventured past vanilla, though, so I'll have to try out your chocolate variety. Chocolate and sucralose never work for me so well in baked things, so I've hesitated.

The version of your recipe that I had uses 3T glycerin, which might be a little much. And I was out of liquid sucralose so used powdered erythritol instead. That never helps the ice cream freeze up quickly and was probably too much for one recipe -- that weird burn in the back of the throat feeling.

More questions if you don't mind--

Do you have trouble getting the lecithin granules to dissolve completely? I spun my mix in za ninja and still had some some bits of lecithin. Could be my lecithin as this is the only application I have for it and hadn't ever used it before. Love getting the custard-style without all of the custard-work.

A cup of davinci's is a lot of $ and we REALLY like ice cream. Have you ever worked out an equivalent? Seems do-able, but I've only experimented on a small scale, like replacing 2T of the stuff with liquid sucralose and an extract.

Thank you!
Kelly

[locarbman]

Hi Kelly,

Regarding lecithin, you may find this information from post #106 page 4 of this thread helpful:

Liquid Stevia ;-)

:”Equivalents for the different forms of lecithin are:

3 heaping tablespoons of regular lecithin granules will equal

3 level tablespoons of fine ground lecithin and these are equal to

2 tablespoons of liquid lecithin”

I had the same problem using the regular lecithin granules (available at Netrition) and switched to using the fine ground lecithin (NOW Fine Granules available on-line) to resolve this problem.

I have not tried creating a chocolate syrup replacement for the DaVinci’s, (we have a local Cash & Carry store that has quite reasonable prices ~$3.85 per 752ml bottle ;-), however, you may find posts #13 and #15 of this thread interesting for my efforts to create Stevia equivalent syrups.

I too love making SF ice creams...hope this helps...locarbman... ;-)

[jlp2009]

Thanks Locarbman!
One more question...how is the taste compared to other AS? Bitter or "off" taste noticed?

[locarbman]

It tastes great...just sweet...no bitterness or off taste...to me... ;-)

I compared my Neotame solution with my Sucralose solution as follows:

I mixed 1/4th teaspoon of each solution (1 cup sugar equivalence each) into separate 2 cup bottles of water to compare their sweetness and taste…I found them both equally sweet and both had a clean, sugary taste. I next made Kool-Aid with ¼ packet of Kool-Aid in each bottle. Both tasted equally sweet, to me, and I noticed no off taste in Strawberry Kool-Aid.

I am quite pleased with Neotame… ;-)

[jlp2009]

Thanks again locarbman!!

[spoiltmomof2]

Is this Neotame the same thing as Newtame? What I bought says Newtame, 1 oz=400 lbs of sugar.

Also, do any of you know where can I find a good, strong, no leak dropper bottle so I can store some of this in my purse?

Thanks!

[spoiltmomof2]

Hmmm, my 2 year old has a dropper bottle of liquid Tylenol that's almost empty. I bet I could empty that out and use it huh? Washed good first of course

[rosethorns]

I would use that.