Our Favorite Game: Replacing A Cup of Sugar

[RVcook]

Kevin: It seems like that is an awfully small amount of inulin to be able to control that large of cooling effect. If someone were to use a different brand of Stevia with a portion of say, Not Sugar or some powdered Inulin, would that possibly moderate the effect?

[Kevinpa]

Originally Posted by RVcook

Kevin: It seems like that is an awfully small amount of inulin to be able to control that large of cooling effect. If someone were to use a different brand of Stevia with a portion of say, Not Sugar or some powdered Inulin, would that possibly moderate the effect?

Not sugar will control crystallization with a 4:1 ratio but I have never experimented with inulin to know exactly what its ratio may be.
Since stevia is so potent, I am guessing that the bulk of the 1/8 cup that you use is inulin. I won't know for sure until I get some and test it.

[Yummy's_Girl]

Originally Posted by Kevinpa

I believe I now understand.....

I kept saying to myself there is nothing in Donna's mix to control the cooling effect from the crystallization of the Erythritol and Xylitol.
Then I started looking up stevia plus figuring I would have to get some because if I used the stong stevia that I have I will lose 1/8 cup volume.
Thats when I discovered the Plus in stevia plus was Inulin

Thats the crystallization control and without that inulin you got major double whamy cooling effect going on from both the Erythritol and Xylitol.

I would not try this blend with plain stevia without the plus(inulin) as you will have major cooling effect going on without it.

This is gresat to know, before I go buy osme powdered stevia. Now, since I wont have powdered stevia plus, but I DO have inulin, can you give me an idea how much inulin I'd need to add, to get rid of the cooling effect?

[Kevinpa]

Originally Posted by Yummy's_Girl

This is gresat to know, before I go buy osme powdered stevia. Now, since I wont have powdered stevia plus, but I DO have inulin, can you give me an idea how much inulin I'd need to add, to get rid of the cooling effect?

Sorry Yummy I don't have a clue. If you remove the stevia plus you throw off the the volume and sweetness of the whole mixture. This isn't one of those things you just take a guess at. I plan on ordering some so I can experiment with it but it will be awhile before I would know anything. It took me months playing with the not/Sugar to come up with a ratio I was sure about.

[Yummy's_Girl]

Originally Posted by Yummy's_Girl

This is gresat to know, before I go buy osme powdered stevia. Now, since I wont have powdered stevia plus, but I DO have inulin, can you give me an idea how much inulin I'd need to add, to get rid of the cooling effect?

Wow I really messed up the spelling in that entire paragraph! I guess thats what I get for being on the boards so long this morning after working all night, instead of going to bed.

Time for sleep, I suppose!

[crazywoman-n-wy]

Originally Posted by Yummy's_Girl

This is gresat to know, before I go buy osme powdered stevia. Now, since I wont have powdered stevia plus, but I DO have inulin, can you give me an idea how much inulin I'd need to add, to get rid of the cooling effect?

Kevinpa said:

Sorry Yummy I don't have a clue. If you remove the stevia plus you throw off the the volume and sweetness of the whole mixture. This isn't one of those things you just take a guess at. I plan on ordering some so I can experiment with it but it will be awhile before I would know anything. It took me months playing with the not/Sugar to come up with a ratio I was sure about.

I'm terrible at all this stuff, especially when I have to try to figure out the math, but....... wouldn't you use 1/8 cup of the inulin. Cause that is the main ingredient (making the bulk) in the stevia+. Maybe just a hair under, but it would be easier to measure the 1/8. Or find the equivalent of the stevia pwd (not plus), and use inulin to make up the difference in 1/8 cup. (Did that make sense?)

[RVcook]

Originally Posted by crazywoman-n-wy

Kevinpa said:
I'm terrible at all this stuff, especially when I have to try to figure out the math, but....... wouldn't you use 1/8 cup of the inulin. Cause that is the main ingredient (making the bulk) in the stevia+. Maybe just a hair under, but it would be easier to measure the 1/8. Or find the equivalent of the stevia pwd (not plus), and use inulin to make up the difference in 1/8 cup. (Did that make sense?)

In theory, it would seem that this might work...but I agree with Kevin in that it can be "iffy" at best. And besides...do you really want to toss out a few cups of this stuff because you didn't have the Stevia+? I'm just hoping that either they don't stop making Stevia+ or I can figure out a way to incorporate a measure of inulin with another stevia product to offset the cooling effect.

I do get kind of set in my ways and really don't like change... !

Edited to Add: Hey...if you decide to experiment, I SURE would like to hear how it works out!

[theislandgirl]

Originally Posted by Kevinpa

...
Thats the crystallization control and without that inulin you got major double whamy cooling effect going on from both the Erythritol and Xylitol.

I would not try this blend with plain stevia without the plus(inulin) as you will have major cooling effect going on without it.

Probably right. The inulin is used as a carrier or filler, and as noted earlier, a very small amount of pure stevia, especially the High Rebaudioside Stevia (which they don't all declare, darn it) equals the 1 C of sugar. So the majority of the measure IS the inulin.

I for one would have no hesitation in using Inulin in the same proportion as the Stevia Plus in this recipe of Donna's. On a smaller scale, of course.

Side Note: I get more of a, ahem, personal reaction from cooked inulin than I do from cooked polydextrose. Nothing painful but DEFINITELY a reaction, similar to adding a whole bunch of prebiotic to the diet, suddenly . Based on observation and experience, I'm guessing that those who get a reaction from the pdx may be better off with inulin, and vice versa. Cooking wise, they come up with many of the same properties.

Oh, this IS fun.

[RVcook]

Originally Posted by theislandgirl

Probably right. The inulin is used as a carrier or filler, and as noted earlier, a very small amount of pure stevia, especially the High Rebaudioside Stevia (which they don't all declare, darn it) equals the 1 C of sugar. So the majority of the measure IS the inulin.

I for one would have no hesitation in using Inulin in the same proportion as the Stevia Plus in this recipe of Donna's. On a smaller scale, of course.

Side Note: I get more of a, ahem, personal reaction from cooked inulin than I do from cooked polydextrose. Nothing painful but DEFINITELY a reaction, similar to adding a whole bunch of prebiotic to the diet, suddenly . Based on observation and experience, I'm guessing that those who get a reaction from the pdx may be better off with inulin, and vice versa. Cooking wise, they come up with many of the same properties.

Oh, this IS fun.

Now that is a fascinating thought... I seem to do quite well with SA's AND (evidently) the inulin in the Stevia+. However, eliminate the SA's and then add in the Poly-d and "painful" takes on a whole new meaning... .

I think the idea of putting together a tiny batch of the Shuga~Blend using the correct proportion of inulin PLUS a teensy bit of (dare I say...?) pure stevia powder at least might render a result worth experimenting with. Maybe something like this:

2.50 TB Xylitol
5.00 TB Erythritol
5.00 TB Diabetisweet
1.50 TB SlimSweet or other sweetener that equals 1 C.???
.75 tsp Inulin
Enough pure Stevia to equal 1/8 C. sugar sweetness

You know...I was adding up what the sugar equivalency would be for everything in my original formula and it is interesting that when added together, I 'should' have the sweetness of 11.50 cups of sugar . But I can honestly say that the level of sweetness is almost identical to real sugar the way it sits right now. I'm beginning to wonder about the whole synergy thing and am now thinking that the more sweeteners you combine you actually get less sweetening power...kind of like the "law of diminishing returns?????"

I'm going to have to ponder this a while....

[theislandgirl]

1/8th C == 4 Tbsp == 12 Tsp... etc etc ad nauseum...

Frankly, I think it's more -- way more -- of whomsoever's tongue is doing the tasting (and the unknowable but definite change that occurs with other ingredients and temperature changes) than it is of some definable and distinct synergy multiplier factor...

What is sweetness anyway? I keep seeing terms like brix out there when I'm reading, and there's probably a reason they use vast quantities of testing panels and groups...

Sigh. This isn't helping the discussion any, is it?

[RVcook]

OK...I'll admit that living in a cave on wheels probably doesn't help much, but what is this term brix .

There has been some proof that cooking (more specifically baking) with synergistic blends has reduced the overall sweet taste so certainly one must take into consideration what applying heat, plus ingredient density does to the finished product. But as I noted in a previous post, even Scott123, who had done extensive research and testing regarding synergistic blending of sweeteners had to admit that the feedback he got regarding his blend was that when used in a recipe the finished product was much less sweet than it should have been.

Ya know...I've been using my Shuga~Blend for over a year now and have NEVER gotten any bad feedback regarding it from others I have provided samples to. Up until recently, I never even gave the 'cooling effect' much thought either since the blend didn't exhibit that particular property. But after discussing this at such length, I think perhaps stumbling onto this formula was just dumb luck on my part. I sure don't want to mislead anyone by implying that my blend is the end-all for your sweetening needs, but considering how far we've come since Saccharin, at least there are lots of options to suit everyone.

[Kevinpa]

I have resisted messing with inulin up to this point, but if 1/8 cup has the ability to tame the crystallization of over 3 1/2 cups of S/A that is notorious for its cooling effects then its time to test it as far as I am concerned. I have ordered the things that I think I will need and plan to give it a thorough shakedown.

[crazywoman-n-wy]

Originally Posted by RVcook
Donna's Shuga~Blend

1/2 lb. Xylitol
1 lb. Erythritol
1 lb. Diabetisweet
1/4 C. SlimSweet by Trimedica
1/8 C. Stevia+

Originally Posted by RVcook

I think the idea of putting together a tiny batch of the Shuga~Blend using the correct proportion of inulin PLUS a teensy bit of (dare I say...?) pure stevia powder at least might render a result worth experimenting with. Maybe something like this:

2.50 TB Xylitol
5.00 TB Erythritol
5.00 TB Diabetisweet
1.50 TB SlimSweet or other sweetener that equals 1 C.???
.75 tsp Inulin
Enough pure Stevia to equal 1/8 C. sugar sweetness

....

I hate to have to ask, but ....Enough pure Stevia to equal 1/8 C. sugar sweetness ?

[Kevinpa]

Originally Posted by RVcook

Kevin: Do you have an equivalency chart on the bottle? Mine says that 2 TB = 1 C. of sugar. Does that help?

Originally Posted by crazywoman-n-wy

I hate to have to ask, but ....Enough pure Stevia to equal 1/8 C. sugar sweetness ?

billie that 1/8 cup of stevia plus = 1 cup of sugar.

[RVcook]

Originally Posted by crazywoman-n-wy

I hate to have to ask, but ....Enough pure Stevia to equal 1/8 C. sugar sweetness ?

Yup...Kevin is correct 1/8 C Stevia+ = 1 Cup sugar sweetness in the original recipe.

But if you're reducing the recipe to 1/8 of its original formula, then you would need the sweetening power of stevia to = 1/8 cup of sugar.

Man!...I'm getting a total rush from all this math!!!!

Kevin: I think it will be very interesting to see how the inulin works. Of course you realize that everyone will be watching and waiting for your final word on the subject... .

[Kevinpa]

well it will be at least the middle of next week before i recieve all the supplies I need to do this.

[Yummy's_Girl]

well, I can wait a little while for kevin to do some testing, before I dive into this. It would be awesome to have a sugar blend I can just shake up and use, so it's worth waiting for experiemnts.

I'd still have to buy the stevia anyway, and I may end up having to order it, depending on what I find when I goi shopping for it this week. There arent alot of paces here that sell it

[RVcook]

Originally Posted by Kevinpa

well it will be at least the middle of next week before i recieve all the supplies I need to do this.

...And I bet you thought retirement would be restful...

[RVcook]

Kevin: You were so exact in your assessment of the inulin damping the cooling effect of the erythritol. I found this explanation:

From Wikipedia:

The cooling effect of erythritol is rarely desired, so hence other ingredients are chosen to dilute or even negate that effect. Erythritol also has a propensity to crystallize and is not as soluble as sucrose, so ingredients may also be chosen to help negate this disadvantage. Furthermore, erythritol is non-hygroscopic, meaning it does not attract moisture, which can lead to products, particularly baked goods, drying out if another hygroscopic ingredient is not used in the formulation.

Very commonly, inulin is combined with erythritol, due to inulin offering a complementary positive heat of solution (warming effect when dissolved that helps cancel erythritol's cooling effect) and non-crystallizing properties. Unfortunately, inulin has a propensity to cause gas and bloating when consumed in moderate to large quantities, particularly in individuals unaccustomed to it. Other sugar alcohols are sometimes utilized with erythritol, particularly isomalt due to its minimally negative heat of solution, and glycerin which has a positive heat of solution, moderate hygroscopicity, and non-crystallizing liquid form.

Well...duh!

[Kevinpa]

Originally Posted by RVcook

From Wikipedia:
Unfortunately, inulin has a propensity to cause gas and bloating when consumed in moderate to large quantities, particularly in individuals unaccustomed to it.

Since I have been working with not/Sugar and found what I consider workable ratio, I hope to come up with a combination of not/Sugar and Inulin that will handle any cooling effect and also lower the possibility of the negative Inulin effect listed above. Although gums are also basically fiber they are less likely to give the gasous side effect as the inulin.

[sherlynn9]

Glad I read thru this entire thread. I'm quite fascinated to adding inulin to the sugar blend Scott123 recommended to me based on what does and does not affect my blood sugar (Diabetasweet is out for me as, not only do I find it has a most unpleasant taste to me, it raised my blood sugar (the Isomalt component). Unless I eat large quantities, polydextrose doesn't seem to have an affect on me. I've also added inulin to protein shakes with none of those tummy distress issues, so think I can add it to the sweetner mix (perhaps replace the AceK and some of the polyd). Yet more time needed for experimentation. I've also acquired the Splenda QuickPaks and will try them. So far I've only mixed the sweetner up in 2 cup sweetener equivalent quantities and have been using liquid splenda to taste as the splenda component when making candy. Have yet to bake with it.

Sheryl