Caramel Sauce, Inulin-Based

[theislandgirl]

Just for fun (and to retest Inulin vs. Polydextrose), I made this:

* Exported from MasterCook *

Caramel Sauce, Inulin-Based

Recipe By : Jude, IslandGirl
Serving Size : 10 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : DaVinci Gourmet SF Syrup, Desserts, Ingredients, Sauces & Coatings, Vegan

*Amount *Measure *Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 cup Inulin -- 110 g
6 tablespoons water
2 tablespoons syrup, sf DaVinci English Toffee
2 teaspoons blackstrap molasses
1 teaspoon lemon juice
1 teaspoon sweetener, Liquid Splenda 'Syrup Base'
1/2 teaspoon Sweetener, Stevia 'Working' Liquid

Copyright: "©LowCarbCanada / The Kitchen Counter™"
Yield: "250 milliliters"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 18 Calories; 0g Fat (0.0% calories from fat); trace Protein; 17g Carbohydrate; 14g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 2mg Sodium. Exchanges: 0 Fruit; 0 Other Carbohydrates.

NOTES : 2006-11-12
Some slight crystallizing around the edges, *very slowly*, once fully cooled. Should be pourable/spreadable for at least 24 hours (yup, tested).
Assuming a 2 T serving size, @ 18 Calories; 0g Fat (0.0% calories from fat); trace Protein; 17g Carbohydrate; 14g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 2mg Sodium. Yep. Net 14g per serving.

Very very yummy (TOO yummy). Strongly recommend consuming probiotic/active culture yogurt in the same meal with this delightful item...


Difficult to know what to do with a generous cup of caramel sauce that I didn't really want hanging around too much longer soooooooooooo I made an upside down caramel apple tatin (sort of a pie). Sorry, no pic . KevinPA's Flaky Pastry recipe (with lard), 1 and 3/4 Ambrosia apples, peeled/cored/sliced thin, and the caramel sauce.

DH (non low carber and a pretty good food critic) gave it the thumbs up -- and I made sure he didn't eat too much of this in one go! About 1/8th piece is a serving.

[Teresa123]

Sounds delicious! I'm interested in trying to sub Inulin for PolyD. Can you tell me what the carb count was for 1 cup of just the Inulin? TIA

[Bev-Ann]

Jude, did you notice any differences in working with the inulin? I already know it dissolves in water easier than polyd, but I'm wondering if it took longer to caramelize, etc?
I'm curious about the crystallization you noticed after it was cooled. Might be worth investigating for a base in fudge.

[Bev-Ann]

Originally Posted by Teresa123

Sounds delicious! I'm interested in trying to sub Inulin for PolyD. Can you tell me what the carb count was for 1 cup of just the Inulin? TIA

Inulin is a fibre that's indigestible by humans so would have 0g carbs or so close to it that it's not worth worrying about.
BTW, is there a reason you want to sub it for polyd? It's double or more the price of polyd.

[jackieba]

I asked about carb count of inulin as compared to polyd and Scott123 said it should be about the same. I count polyd as 16 carbs per cup if I don't weigh it.

[theislandgirl]

Originally Posted by Teresa123

Sounds delicious! I'm interested in trying to sub Inulin for PolyD. Can you tell me what the carb count was for 1 cup of just the Inulin? TIA

First, let me say that I've been working with Inulin off and on for several years; also, there is a great deal of variation in batches; also, Inulin has some sweetness and some average caloric value. For consistency and calculation purposes, I've been using these numbers, and will continue to do so for my own files (to each, his or her own method, I count carbs as equivalent to established caloric value on the theory that if there are energy calories, there are some net carbs):

[COLOR="Blue"]1 Tbsp, 10g total wgt, 14.75 ml volume, 9.3 calories therefore 10g total carb and 8.69g dietary fiber.[/COLOR] I just scale it up for 1 C, my MasterCook calculates 160g total carbs and 139g fiber, so net 21g per 1 C.

Hope this helps.

[theislandgirl]

Originally Posted by Bev-Ann

Jude, did you notice any differences in working with the inulin? I already know it dissolves in water easier than polyd, but I'm wondering if it took longer to caramelize, etc?
I'm curious about the crystallization you noticed after it was cooled. Might be worth investigating for a base in fudge.

I couldn't get it to actually caramelize; this is the reasoning behind the English Toffee DaVinci (flavour) and the Blackstrap (colour and some flavour). It does, however, thicken up the cream as it should, at which point the crystals disappeared. I'm not sure if it's me (I was doing a lot of stirring and getting a lot of recrystallization before I added the cream, a no-no in sucrose caramelization) or the Inulin. There was only the tiniest recrystallization around the edges as it cooled, more like a delicate frost here and there, and it stirred right back in. I'm thinking the proportion of heavy cream is important to keeping this semmi-fluid.

I recall actually making an accidental fudge while working on another caramel sauce recipe (completely on the fly, so the proportions were different than this recipe, which was loosely based on a "normal" caramel sauce recipe) some 2 or 3 years ago. Unfortunately, I don't know what I did with my notes, and I don't seem to have entered it in my MasterCook "database" of experiments...... my bad. I'll see if I can stimulate my hindbrain and remember what I did.

[Bev-Ann]

Originally Posted by theislandgirl

[COLOR="Blue"]1 Tbsp, 10g total wgt, 14.75 ml volume, 9.3 calories therefore 10g total carb and 8.69g dietary fiber.[/COLOR] I just scale it up for 1 C, my MasterCook calculates 160g total carbs and 139g fiber, so net 21g per 1 C.

I just woke up so maybe my brain isn't quite functioning yet, but isn't 1 gram of carb roughly 4 calories? Assuming that it is, 9.3 calories would work out to 2.35g carbs. Then averaging at least 90% fibre would give 2.1g fibre for a net of 0.25g/tbsp or 4g/cup. (Ouch, my brain hurts trying to do math this early!)
I don't count carbs in things that don't affect blood glucose and since inulin actually lowers BG, I feel confident counting it as 0g net carbs even moreso than other substances. But of course that's just my opinion.

[theislandgirl]

Originally Posted by Bev-Ann

I just woke up so maybe my brain isn't quite functioning yet, but isn't 1 gram of carb roughly 4 calories? Assuming that it is, 9.3 calories would work out to 2.35g carbs. Then averaging at least 90% fibre would give 2.1g fibre for a net of 0.25g/tbsp or 4g/cup. (Ouch, my brain hurts trying to do math this early!)
I don't count carbs in things that don't affect blood glucose and since inulin actually lowers BG, I feel confident counting it as 0g net carbs even moreso than other substances. But of course that's just my opinion.

As I said, each to his or her own method. I'm not diagnosed diabetic, so I use perhaps different criteria. All that being said, I long ago decided that since decimals were important to me in managing carb counts, I'd avoid using the "rough" 4, 4 & 9 cal counts and go for the real numbers. My "mini hidden carbs calculator spreadsheet" tool uses these numbers, based on research at the time:

• [COLOR="Purple"]
• carb factor = 3.84063 cals/g
• fat factor = 8.82671 cals/g
• protein factor = 4.28361 cals/g[/COLOR]

I don't remember for sure just what basis I used to enter Inulin in my MasterCook other than calorie/gram factors, but I seem to recall that, again, different batches of Inulin/FOS come out with different percentages of FOS vs glucose, fructose, etc., plus there was (and is) a LOT of discussion out there in technical food land about how the body treats fiber-like products and the energy (cals) actually produced and it's form (not necessarily carbohydrate, often short chain fatty acids, etc., another discussion), be it in the lower colon or elsewhere. Ultimately, I ended up with these numbers. They work for me, I'm not going to foist them off on anyone else, but I am glad to try and explain them. ALL THAT BEING SAID, I AM going to go and doublecheck my MasterCook entry for the Inulin and make sure I haven't made a boo boo I've not noticed...

Now, here's some more fun -- just a couple of days ago, I noted on USDA SR 19 material I was researching (for those winter squashes, actually) that macronutrient calorie factors were posted as:

• [COLOR="Red"]
• protein 2.44 cals/gram
• fat 8.37 cals/gram
• carb 3.57 cals/gram[/COLOR]

Those are the numbers the USDA NOW uses to determine calorie/gram value, no rounding; at least for vegetables. I have absolutely NO idea when that happened, but these numbers are, for calculation of larger amounts, significantly different! and that protein factor is just plain significantly different! Go figure. Now that's a way to have a morning math headache!

I know, sorry, I haven't actually made things all that much clearer, have I? Bottom line, what works for you is what you need to do, in terms of calorie and carb counting...I'm just sharing my weirdness...

[theislandgirl]

Originally Posted by Bev-Ann

I just woke up so maybe my brain isn't quite functioning yet, but isn't 1 gram of carb roughly 4 calories? Assuming that it is, 9.3 calories would work out to 2.35g carbs. Then averaging at least 90% fibre would give 2.1g fibre for a net of 0.25g/tbsp or 4g/cup. (Ouch, my brain hurts trying to do math this early!)
I don't count carbs in things that don't affect blood glucose and since inulin actually lowers BG, I feel confident counting it as 0g net carbs even moreso than other substances. But of course that's just my opinion.

This is my basic calc, and I think I see where you applied the 90% fiber "rule". I think you misplaced your percentage operator...check out the numbers:

• (9.3 cal) / (3.84063 cal/g) = 2.4214777263105271791346732176752 g sorry! couldn't resist.
• So, technically, 2.42g carbs per Tbsp based on batch average caloric value of FOS/Inulin (several varieties and brands) alone.
• 10g total carb and 8.69g (@ 87%, note the closeness to 90%, this is where the percentage for fiber is applied, assuming fiber is non-caloric) dietary fiber per Tbsp = 1.31g net carb/Tbsp therefore 1.31*16 = 20.96 or 21g net carb/Cup ...
• note! at the risk of repeating myself, 8.69g/T*16T = 139g fiber per C ! Consume with care...

Hope this is a little more clear?

[scott123]

From the Journal of Nutrition (bold mine):

The manufacturing process for inulin is rather similar to that of sugar extracted from sugar beets. The roots are typically harvested, sliced and washed. Inulin is then extracted from the root by using a hot water diffusion process, then purified and dried (Belval 1927Citation ). The resulting product has an average degree of polymerization (DP)2 of 10–12 and a distribution of molecules with chain lengths from 2–60 units. The finished inulin powder typically contains 6–10% sugars represented as glucose, fructose and sucrose. These are native to the chicory root; they are not added after extraction.

So, inulin has a maximum of 10% sugars/carbs

1 cup (160g) = 16 net carbs max

Jude, you can't reverse engineer inulin's carbs from it's calorie count. The same calorie discrepancy that occurs with polyd occurs with inulin. Inulin has to be listed on the label as 1.5 cal/g. If carbs are 3.57 cal/g, 1.5 cal/g would make inulin 42% carbs. We all know that's not the case, just as polyd's carbs (8%) don't correspond to it's calories (1 cal/g would make it 28% carbs). The calories are arbitrary, regulatory and just plain wrong. Polydextrose is 8% max carbs and inulin is 10% max. That's fact.

I just tasted a small spoonful of my Trader Joe's inulin (a NOW brand knockoff) and although the taste was almost identical to polyd, it was just a tiny tiny bit less sweet. This relative lack of sweetness would make it less carbs than polyd (for these types of higher saccharides, sweetness = carbs). I'm certain that the actual carb percentage for inulin is closer to 6 than to 10. Still, if you want to play it extremely safe, go with 10%. It's better to overcount the carb impact than undercount it.

[Bev-Ann]

Originally Posted by theislandgirl

This is my basic calc, and I think I see where you applied the 90% fiber "rule". I think you misplaced your percentage operator...check out the numbers:

Yep, I forgot that they'd come up with the ~1.5 cal/g based on the fact that the fibre was not digestible so it had already been subtracted. It was VERY early when I was trying to figure it out this morning.
I'm not diabetic either but go by the knowledge that insulin is involved in the process to store fat. No effect on BG means no insulin required to process it. I think Atkins proposes that type of thing too. I don't remember exactly when I began thinking that way, but I've maintained my weight loss for almost 2 years on that premise. I think that's why fibre is allowed to be subtracted on most LC plans too...even if it does contribute energy, it doesn't require insulin to process it.

[Bev-Ann]

Originally Posted by theislandgirl

Now, here's some more fun -- just a couple of days ago, I noted on USDA SR 19 material I was researching (for those winter squashes, actually) that macronutrient calorie factors were posted as:

• [COLOR="Red"]
• protein 2.44 cals/gram
• fat 8.37 cals/gram
• carb 3.57 cals/gram[/COLOR]

Those are the numbers the USDA NOW uses to determine calorie/gram value, no rounding; at least for vegetables. I have absolutely NO idea when that happened, but these numbers are, for calculation of larger amounts, significantly different! and that protein factor is just plain significantly different! Go figure. Now that's a way to have a morning math headache!

I'll bet the protein calc changed due to the fact that it actually requires energy to digest it. If you use the pc version of FitDay (might be in the online version too, don't know), the daily Overview shows an energy expenditure for Digestion that, based on the number above, is for protein digestion.

[theislandgirl]

macronutrient calorie factors:

• protein 2.44 cals/gram
• fat 8.37 cals/gram
• carb 3.57 cals/gram

Originally Posted by Bev-Ann

I'll bet the protein calc changed due to the fact that it actually requires energy to digest it. If you use the pc version of FitDay (might be in the online version too, don't know), the daily Overview shows an energy expenditure for Digestion that, based on the number above, is for protein digestion.

Oy, there goes that average of 4 cals/g posted on every Nutrition Facts label from here to kingdom come...

[theislandgirl]

Originally Posted by scott123

From the Journal of Nutrition (bold mine):

So, inulin has a maximum of 10% sugars/carbs

1 cup (160g) = 16 net carbs max

Jude, you can't reverse engineer inulin's carbs from it's calorie count. The same calorie discrepancy that occurs with polyd occurs with inulin. Inulin has to be listed on the label as 1.5 cal/g. If carbs are 3.57 cal/g, 1.5 cal/g would make inulin 42% carbs. We all know that's not the case, just as polyd's carbs (8%) don't correspond to it's calories (1 cal/g would make it 28% carbs). The calories are arbitrary, regulatory and just plain wrong. Polydextrose is 8% max carbs and inulin is 10% max. That's fact. [COLOR="Blue"]{well, actually, it's a typical range, not a fact per se; with a typical range of 6 to 10%, it'd be wiser to pick an arbitrary 8%, smack in the middle, wouldn't it? } :jude[/COLOR]

I just tasted a small spoonful of my Trader Joe's inulin (a NOW brand knockoff) and although the taste was almost identical to polyd, it was just a tiny tiny bit less sweet. This relative lack of sweetness [COLOR="Blue"]{well, for this batch anyway, and this is very subjective, hmmm? :jude } [/COLOR]would make it less carbs than polyd (for these types of higher saccharides, sweetness = carbs). I'm certain that the actual carb percentage for inulin is closer to 6 than to 10. Still, if you want to play it extremely safe, go with 10%. It's better to overcount the carb impact than undercount it.

Scott, while I fully appreciate your numbers and quoted facts, and am also aware of the regulatory weirdnesses arbitrarily applied to Nutrition Facts labels -- both in your country and mine -- I need to point out to you that I am not actually attempting reverse-engineering. I personally feel it's appropriate (again, for me, as I have said before) to accommodate other forms of digestion and energy production for soluble fibers. Think I said that in an earlier post somewhere in the Yacon/Inulin thread, along with posting some of those other sugars percentages on my Inulin label.

In my head, only fully insoluble fibers, such as cellulose or twigs, are completely "deductible" or non-caloric. It's not completely about sugars (or insulin, for that matter) for me.

So it's your certainty vs. my gut-feeling! Really, there's not such a huge difference between 10% and 13% caloric soluble fiber carbs, especially when we're talking about a product (or two if we're dragging Polydextrose into this) that have such widely ranging effects on different peoples digestion (and presumably, the rest of their systems).

Well, now that I have THAT off my chest! ...all that being said, it might well be time I revisited my 3 year old MasterCook entry and calcs in the light of more current foodscience...

Hope you're having a great day!

[Bev-Ann]

Originally Posted by theislandgirl

Oy, there goes that average of 4 cals/g posted on every Nutrition Facts label from here to kingdom come...

Yeah, I was thinking exactly the same thing. All of a sudden the labels are going to show roughly half the calories for protein and REALLY confuse everyone, especially people who count calories.

[crazywoman-n-wy]

Originally Posted by theislandgirl

I couldn't get it to actually caramelize; this is the reasoning behind the English Toffee DaVinci (flavour) and the Blackstrap (colour and some flavour). It does, however, thicken up the cream as it should, at which point the crystals disappeared. I'm not sure if it's me (I was doing a lot of stirring and getting a lot of recrystallization before I added the cream, a no-no in sucrose caramelization) or the Inulin. There was only the tiniest recrystallization around the edges as it cooled, more like a delicate frost here and there, and it stirred right back in. I'm thinking the proportion of heavy cream is important to keeping this semmi-fluid.

I recall actually making an accidental fudge while working on another caramel sauce recipe (completely on the fly, so the proportions were different than this recipe, which was loosely based on a "normal" caramel sauce recipe) some 2 or 3 years ago. Unfortunately, I don't know what I did with my notes, and I don't seem to have entered it in my MasterCook "database" of experiments...... my bad. I'll see if I can stimulate my hindbrain and remember what I did.

[COLOR=red]Jude, You mention adding cream to the caramel sauce, but there is no cream in the recipe. Can you tell me how much cream? Is is actually a part of the caramel sauce? [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]To what stage did you cook the sauce? And then after it is cooked to that stage, I guess you add the cream?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#ff0000]I just got my inulin in tonight. Now trying to decide what I'm gonna do with it. [/COLOR]

[theislandgirl]

Originally Posted by crazywoman-n-wy

[COLOR=red]Jude, You mention adding cream to the caramel sauce, but there is no cream in the recipe. Can you tell me how much cream? Is is actually a part of the caramel sauce? [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]To what stage did you cook the sauce? And then after it is cooked to that stage, I guess you add the cream?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#ff0000]I just got my inulin in tonight. Now trying to decide what I'm gonna do with it. [/COLOR]

Oyks! My bad, yes, I see that the cream isn't showing. That would be about 2 Cups (our cream comes in 500ml containers and I had a wee bit left over) of heavy or whipping cream.

And basically, I cooked the inulin, water and lemon juice together until liquid, cooked for a bit longer to see if it would brown or caramelize (it didn't), added the sweeteners and flavors to dissolve (off the heat), then stirred in the cream, then back on the heat and simmered, stirring, til all was smooth and slightly thickened. That's about it. Without the caramelization, none of that candy staging stuff seems to apply. Once finished, into a heatproof bowl or jar; [COLOR="Blue"]it will continue to thicken as it cools[/COLOR], and then some more overnight (that's the inulin action, I think).

I'll go back and fix up my recipe now

[crazywoman-n-wy]

[COLOR=red]That's OK Jude, I understand!!!![/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]Just confused. And it is very easy to confuse me. LOL [/COLOR]