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Old 02-24-2014, 06:09 PM   #1
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Breads need a flavor solution

Low carb breads are pretty easy to make these days. Many recipes are good or better. The problem is most of them don't taste like bread. For example... Maria Emmerich's Amazing Bread Recipe:

3 cup blanched almond flour (10 oz)
10 TBS psyllium husk powder (no substitutes) (90 grams) (must be a fine powder, measure weight to be sure) (I use Jay Robb whole husk psyllium ground in a blender until half its origonal volume, other psyllium may not have the same results)
4 tsp baking powder
1 tsp Celtic sea salt
5 TBS apple cider vinegar (2 oz)
6 egg whites (7 oz)
1 1/2 cup BOILING water (12 oz)

NOTE: Make sure to weigh your ingredients to ensure it rises properly and doesn’t get hallow and gummy. Also, if you do weigh and grind your psyllium and still have a problem, try grinding the psyllium again. We have a batch of psyllium that we ground and didn’t work. Stay really wet. So we ground it again and it works great!

Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F. In a medium sized bowl, combine the flour, psyllium powder (no substitutes: flaxseed meal won’t work), baking powder and salt. Mix until dry ingredients are well combined. Add in the eggs and vinegar and mix until a thick dough. Add boiling water into the bowl. Mix until well combined and dough firms up.

Form into a loaf and place into a greased bread pan (I used an 8X4 inch pan). Bake for 60-75 minutes. It should be somewhat firm to the touch and have a nice brown crust. Remove from the oven and allow the bread to cool completely.

Makes 10 servings (2 slices per serving)

NUTRITIONAL COMPARISON (per serving)
Traditional Sub Bread = 200 calories, 3g fat, 10g protein, 40g carbs, 8g fiber
Almond Flour Sub (egg whites) = 220 calories, 14.2g fat, 8.2g protein, 20.7g carb, 16.6g fiber (57% fat, 14% protein, 35% carbs)

********
This recipe is AMAZING. It looks like bread, acts like bread, feels like bread... but it does not TASTE like bread or smell like bread. Even when topped with butter and garlic.

What could we do? If Capella made flavor drops called "Yeast Bread" our problem would be solved. They don't. I've suggested it already to them. Maybe they will make it if a lot of people request it... the flavor request form is right on their website.

What about something like 24 hour prior to baking I mixed 1 T yeast with 1/4 cup water, 1 tsp sugar and 1 tsp flour in a cup and stuck it in the fridge. Or not in the fridge? Like a starter (Amish friendship bread starter is just yeast, sugar, flour and milk)? Then I could throw it in this recipe right before adding 1 1/4 cups boiling water. I don't care if the yeast rises the bread any- and it won't because the boiling water will kill it.

Thoughts?
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:06 PM   #2
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I threw in some nutritional yeast to the recipe. It smelled like bread when baking and it tasted very bread like out of the oven. Once it cools it isn't as good though, I always grill it well or toast it well. Try that and see if you like it
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:48 PM   #3
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Wish I could answer you, but unfortunately I have never been successful with
the Sub Bread after many tries.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:06 PM   #4
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I've made Maria's sub rolls, and you are right, they look good, feel good, and are great for stuffing with stuff for a sandwich, but they don't taste good. They don't taste bad, they just don't have much flavor. I like using half marinara sauce and half boiling water in them, and that gives a little flavor, but it is not bread. I thought perhaps to add ground caraway seeds, in hopes of getting a bit of a rye bread flavor...
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:20 PM   #5
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I agree with adding the yeast. it helps a little bit.

I am not familiar with the recipe, but I would suggest using citric acid in lieu of cider vinegar. bread does not taste like cider vinegar. citric acid is a very neutral acidity.

by the way, I have some "fresh baked bread" flavoring from Nature's Flavors, and it tastes NOTHING like bread, smells NOTHING like bread, and is nothing you would want to eat or smell. Yuck. Just in case some enterprising person starts Googling it...

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Old 02-24-2014, 09:28 PM   #6
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Marmite

Bovril

Yeast Extract

Soy Sauce

Bread Flavorant
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:48 PM   #7
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LOL... I submitted a request for a free water soluable, very low carb, sugar free "bread flavorant" sample.

If they send one they're gonna want me to purchase a gallon!
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:10 PM   #8
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(psssst) Resell, resell, resell, I'll buy some from ya!
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:10 PM   #9
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Maybe try marmite though? You can find that in the grocery store?
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:03 PM   #10
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I grew up with marmite, so I love it, but most people who didn't eat it before they turned 4 don't. Not sure that it would flavor bread, though. I know it is yeast extract, which is a glutamate, but I don't think it tasted much like bread yeast. It is more savory. I use it to add flavor to gravy.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:13 PM   #11
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An Aussie friend sent me some Marmite and Vegemite. Sorry.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:32 AM   #12
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So is it the equivalent of Maggi seasoning liquid?
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHoberer View Post
An Aussie friend sent me some Marmite and Vegemite. Sorry.
LOL. Like I said, if you didn't start eating it by age 4, you probably won't like it.
We had an English babysitter who gave it to us, and I still remember the look on my mother's face when she tried it... Too funny!
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Old 02-26-2014, 08:01 PM   #14
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So is it the equivalent of Maggi seasoning liquid?
Sort of, I guess. It is a paste, not a liquid, and very strong and concentrated. Also salty. Marmite is stronger than Vegemite, but both are savory. Bovril is in the same category. I don't use Maggi much, so I'm not sure what it tastes like, but they work the same way as anchovies do in a good Caesar Salad Dressing - adding a depth of flavor, but not noticeable in themselves (unless spread on toast a la the Brits). I also always have a hard time trying to describe a taste... How would you describe taste taste of a strong, stinky cheese to someone who had never had one?

Sorry I can't be more helpful.
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:43 PM   #15
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It is umami
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHoberer View Post
LOL... I submitted a request for a free water soluable, very low carb, sugar free "bread flavorant" sample.

If they send one they're gonna want me to purchase a gallon!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooticus View Post
(psssst) Resell, resell, resell, I'll buy some from ya!


Interesting flavours - I like the look of 'baked crust' as well as 'bread'. I'll have to see if DH can obtain samples for me the next time he's in the US.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:12 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Jakelilydad View Post
I grew up with marmite, so I love it, but most people who didn't eat it before they turned 4 don't. Not sure that it would flavor bread, though. I know it is yeast extract, which is a glutamate, but I don't think it tasted much like bread yeast. It is more savory. I use it to add flavor to gravy.
To me I find that marmite/vegemite tastes like the bits of roast beef stuck to the pan after making a roast.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:26 AM   #18
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King Arthur has some flavor enhancers (Rye, sourdough, artisan, herb and garlic) that I eyed up a while back. Could not easily find the carb counts and shipping costs kept me from ordering. But, I keep kicking it around in my head.

I also think that I am going to bloom some real yeast and add it to a batch of Maria's rolls. I'll add it after the boiling water's been incorporated, as I know the heat will kill the yeast, but since I don't so much want it for rise, I figure what have I got to lose?
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:41 PM   #19
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I'm going to try it too. But I think I'll add the yeast mixture right before the boiling water. It might be hard to stir if I added it after.

I know 2 T yeast proofs with 2 tsp blackstrap molasses and 1 tsp flour... I tried it on my King Cake today.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:09 PM   #20
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Success!!



Here is my new recipe- much, much improved. I tried them with bbq pulled pork and pineapple flavored sf cream cheese. My next trial will be longer wait time with proofing the yeast (I was in a hurry) and to try it without any flour at all. Or oat flour if that doesn't work. They ought to be gluten free.

I started the yeast in my mixing bowl and then just continued as if it wasn;t in there. I did modify a few other things... I added broth for flavor, less salt because the broth is salty and less broth than the original recipe's water because I used water in the yeast mixture.

1 T yeast
1 t blackstrap molasses (13 carbs)
1/2 t flour (1 carb. Really? Is that right?)
3 T lukewarm water

Mix together and let sit for a minimum of 15 minutes.

******
3 cups blanched almond flour (10 oz)
10 TBS psyllium husk powder (no substitutes) (90 grams) (must be a fine powder, measure weight to be sure) (I use Jay Robb whole husk psyllium ground in a blender until half its origonal volume, other psyllium may not have the same results)
4 tsp baking powder
1/2 tsp Celtic sea salt
6 egg whites (7 oz) (*I used 5/6 cup egg whites from carton this time)
5 TBS apple cider vinegar (2 oz)
1 1/3 cup BOILING chicken broth or prepared bouillon)

Have everything ready to go, measured out in little cups, etc. Make sure the oven is preheated. The most important part is when the vinegar joins the mix. I add it immediately before the boiling broth, mix until just thickened and pickupable. It will be sticky a bit. Make sure not to mess with the dough much- quickly make rolls and set them down. Do not flatten them. Ugly is better than gummy!

For 8 rolls on ungreased nonstick foil at 350, I baked these rolls for 44 minutes.


Last edited by JHoberer; 03-05-2014 at 06:13 PM..
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:19 PM   #21
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They're beautiful, Jen. I must revisit this recipe. I'm starting to experiment with Einkorn flour and plan to try adding 1-2 T. to my older low-carb bread recipes to see if I can get better flavor.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:37 PM   #22
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Is Einkorn a more ancient wheat? I've heard the name once or twice but know nothing about it.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:43 PM   #23
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Wow Jen, beautiful!!!

So the question much be asked, do you think coconut flour and oat fiber combo could be subbed for almond flour? (Almond allergies...)

Very cool!
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:29 PM   #24
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Maria Emmerich has a coconut flour version on her website. Same recipe... Amazing bread.
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Old 03-06-2014, 07:30 AM   #25
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Is Einkorn a more ancient wheat? I've heard the name once or twice but know nothing about it.
Yes, it's considered to be an ancient strain and non-GMO. I got mine at Jovial Foods. I tried 1 T. in my gluc dumplings this week and we liked what a mere 1 T. brought to mouth feel, flavor and texture without upping carbs that much really. Each gluc dumpling went from .1 to .96 using the 1 T. Einkorn flour in the recipe. That's still low IMHO.
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:47 PM   #26
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Poot - I make the coconut flour version all the time, with the same great results Jen gets, except I only get five rolls since there's a lot less volume with the coconut flour. I also only use powdered egg whites. I am not sure about substituting the psyllium with oat fiber, never tried it. This is my tried-and-true version for the coconut flour with egg white powder rolls:

Maria's Sub Rolls, Coconut Flour Version slightly tweaked

2.5 oz. coconut flour
1.5 oz. psyllium husk powder (currently using Solgar and don't have to grind it more, but have had good results with others too)
.8 oz. egg white powder
2 tsp. baking powder
1/2 tsp. salt
2.5 Tbs. vinegar
1-7/8 cups boiling water
2 Tbs. nutritional yeast (optional, but I like the smell and flavor)
Seasonings as desired

I put all the dry ingredients in my bowl and let the mixer slowly blend everything together and break up with egg white powder clumps while I boil the water. When the water is almost boiling I put in the vinegar, bring it to a full boil, ramp up the speed on the mixer and dump in all the liquid. It makes dough in about a minute. I roughly pull it apart into five blobs, put them on my silpat-lined baking sheet, and bake at 350 for 55 minutes. It doesn't seem to matter what shape I try to give them, they always just puff up into a sort of fat short sausage-roll shape. I have flattened the dough - they still puff up the same. I've never cut a slit in them. They come out a lighter brown than Jen's but have nice outer crustiness and interior airy texture.
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Old 03-07-2014, 06:43 AM   #27
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Wow Penguin, that sounds great! I was thinking of using the oat fiber/coconut flour combo as the sub for the almond flour, in order to boost the volume. Cuz 1/2 cup of coconut flour didn't seem like it would be enough volume to replace so much from almond flour. (Think isn't it 1/2 the amount of other non-coconut flours?)

I'm going to make your recipe today (we're having LC crab cakes for dinner and I fancy a crab cake sammy for dinner)! Will let you know how it turns out. I have the egg white powder. Now just a question...Is powdered egg white (I have Deb El Brand) the same as Egg White Protein? Cuz was thinking of picking up some Jay Robb EWP today at the store.
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:06 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHoberer View Post
Success!!



Here is my new recipe- much, much improved. I tried them with bbq pulled pork and pineapple flavored sf cream cheese. My next trial will be longer wait time with proofing the yeast (I was in a hurry) and to try it without any flour at all. Or oat flour if that doesn't work. They ought to be gluten free.

I started the yeast in my mixing bowl and then just continued as if it wasn;t in there. I did modify a few other things... I added broth for flavor, less salt because the broth is salty and less broth than the original recipe's water because I used water in the yeast mixture.

1 T yeast
1 t blackstrap molasses (13 carbs)
1/2 t flour (1 carb. Really? Is that right?)
3 T lukewarm water

Mix together and let sit for a minimum of 15 minutes.

******
3 cups blanched almond flour (10 oz)
10 TBS psyllium husk powder (no substitutes) (90 grams) (must be a fine powder, measure weight to be sure) (I use Jay Robb whole husk psyllium ground in a blender until half its origonal volume, other psyllium may not have the same results)
4 tsp baking powder
1/2 tsp Celtic sea salt
6 egg whites (7 oz) (*I used 5/6 cup egg whites from carton this time)
5 TBS apple cider vinegar (2 oz)
1 1/3 cup BOILING chicken broth or prepared bouillon)

Have everything ready to go, measured out in little cups, etc. Make sure the oven is preheated. The most important part is when the vinegar joins the mix. I add it immediately before the boiling broth, mix until just thickened and pickupable. It will be sticky a bit. Make sure not to mess with the dough much- quickly make rolls and set them down. Do not flatten them. Ugly is better than gummy!

For 8 rolls on ungreased nonstick foil at 350, I baked these rolls for 44 minutes.


Dang girl! I just plugged this into MC9 for 8 rolls and here is what I got using Bob's Red Mill Almond Flour:

Per Roll (Yield 8 Rolls): 303 Calories; 21g Fat (60.3% calories from fat); 12g Protein; 19g Carbohydrate; 13g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 430mg Sodium; 6g Net Carbs

That is one spendy roll from a calorie and carb standpoint! (Although I no longer fret over 6g Net Carbs, cuz the fiber is so great in it. I'm betting it would have MINIMAL bg effect! Probably most of the bg response from those 6g of net carbs would be blocked from the 13g of soluble fiber.
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguinpower View Post
Poot - I make the coconut flour version all the time, with the same great results Jen gets, except I only get five rolls since there's a lot less volume with the coconut flour. I also only use powdered egg whites. I am not sure about substituting the psyllium with oat fiber, never tried it. This is my tried-and-true version for the coconut flour with egg white powder rolls:

Maria's Sub Rolls, Coconut Flour Version slightly tweaked

2.5 oz. coconut flour
1.5 oz. psyllium husk powder (currently using Solgar and don't have to grind it more, but have had good results with others too)
.8 oz. egg white powder
2 tsp. baking powder
1/2 tsp. salt
2.5 Tbs. vinegar
1-7/8 cups boiling water
2 Tbs. nutritional yeast (optional, but I like the smell and flavor)
Seasonings as desired

I put all the dry ingredients in my bowl and let the mixer slowly blend everything together and break up with egg white powder clumps while I boil the water. When the water is almost boiling I put in the vinegar, bring it to a full boil, ramp up the speed on the mixer and dump in all the liquid. It makes dough in about a minute. I roughly pull it apart into five blobs, put them on my silpat-lined baking sheet, and bake at 350 for 55 minutes. It doesn't seem to matter what shape I try to give them, they always just puff up into a sort of fat short sausage-roll shape. I have flattened the dough - they still puff up the same. I've never cut a slit in them. They come out a lighter brown than Jen's but have nice outer crustiness and interior airy texture.
Here is the MC9 info on Penguin's rolls per 5 roll yield: 107 Calories; 2g Fat (18.2% calories from fat); 6g Protein; 15g Carbohydrate; 11g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 473mg Sodium; 4g Net Carbs
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:05 AM   #30
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Hope you enjoy them as much as we do, Poot! I don't know if the egg white powder is the same as the protein - I guess it would be, if they are both 100% EW? I buy the huge cans of EW powder from Honeyville and am not a fan of the Jay Robb products, so can't compare.

Now I'm hungry - I think I'll go make up a batch of these!
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