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Old 09-19-2013, 01:55 PM   #1
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Red Wheat Bran Flour?

Hi folks. I would like to know if Red Wheat Bran Flour is really considered a low carb flour (I'm looking at it from a diabetic view)? The offer I have from a site selling it for 15% off ends tomorrow so I need to know before then.

The site has "nutrition data" for this flour in an odd format. Here is what they say about it.

...is produced by milling our red wheat bran further into a fine flour. Red Wheat Bran Flour is unbleached and has over 40% total dietary fiber and 15% protein. Because of the high fiber and protein, it makes a great ingredient in low carb baking and other creations. [This flour] is an ideal product for your low-carb baking needs.

Typical Analysis
Moisture 10% max
Protein 14% - 17%
Ash 1.5% - 3.7%
Dietary Fiber 42.8 grams


Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:51 PM   #2
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I read 2 reveiws and they said it is good. In a diabetic way of thinking yes I would say it is.

Are you talking about the one from Honeyville? If yes that's where I found the reviews.I put in the search for the flour and 1 of the reviews is Chef Tess.

I also went on line to check nutritional facts of the red wheat bran. All I found was wheat bran and for a 1/4 cup it was 10 carbs , 6 fiber.

I hope that helps.

Last edited by rosethorns; 09-19-2013 at 02:53 PM..
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #3
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Thank you so much Esther!!!

Yes, it's the product from Honeyville. May I ask where you found the reviews there? On the page for that particular flour there are 17 ratings, but no reviews.

I just found out that I have a store "local" to me (30 miles away) called Wegmans that carries Organic Red Wheat Bran that has the following nutritional data that seems to be the same as what you found (sorry for the poor formatting):

Nutrition Facts
Serving Size: 1/4 cup (15g)
Servings Per Container: varies

Calories 50
Calories from Fat 5
Amount Per Serving and/or % Daily Value*
Total Fat .5 g (1%)
Saturated Fat 0 g (0%)
Trans Fat 0 g
Cholesterol 0 mg (0%)
Sodium 0 mg (0%)
Total Carbohydrate 10 g (3%)
Dietary Fiber 6 g (26%)
Sugars 1 g
Protein 2 g
Vitamin A 0%
Vitamin C 0%
Calcium 0%
Iron 8%


Now I wonder if this is a flour that can be used directly to make bread with, or if it needs regular wheat flour to rise. I'll call Honeyville and find out before ordering.

Thanks so much again for the help!
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:59 PM   #4
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It will have very little gluten in it, so you'll need to use something to make that work. If you're making yeast bread, vital wheat gluten is helpful.

Successfully making LC yeast breads is a lofty pursuit - many have tried and failed! Myself included.

We now make our bread with wheat which we purchase from Honeyville by the 50 pound sack. It's their hard red winter wheat. We then sprout the wheat, then dehydrate and grind into flour. Sprouting it converts the starches to plant sugars, which are more easily digested/used by the body (from what I've read anyway, you can do research on sprouted grains breads and see what you think!) - I still use a little VWG even with the sprouted grains, to get better rise.

DH does really well with the sprouted grains breads.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:04 PM   #5
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Thank you VERY much Charski! I'll look into the sprouted grain bread! My 88 year old mother is now diabetic and I'll be looking into ways to make more diabetic-friendly breads and crackers and such for her and me (I'm 58). They have to be soft or very crumbly because she has trouble chewing.

BTW folks, I haven't been here for awhile because my old PC blew up some time ago and I just today remembered about this forum!
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:35 PM   #6
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Cool those are the facts that I got.

When I got to the Red wheat page I then put in the search nutrional value and then the 2 reviews came up.

I hope that helps.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:04 AM   #7
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Charski -
Do you get the Hard Red Wheat or the Organic Hard Red Wheat from Honeyville?

rosethorns -
Thank you. For some reason the only search bar I see on the screen is for their whole site and entering "nutritional value" or "nutrional value" gets me nothing.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:29 AM   #8
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I just buy the regular one - I've debated about buying the organic though, and may next time. I think it depends on your mindset on this stuff.

If you get it and are gonna go ahead with the sprouting/dehydrating - I'd be happy to tell you what works for me!
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Old 09-20-2013, 11:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charski View Post
I just buy the regular one - I've debated about buying the organic though, and may next time. I think it depends on your mindset on this stuff.
So many times naming something "organic" is just a way to up the price so I usually don't go that way unless I have a very real reason to believe the "organic" whatever is really better.

Quote:
If you get it and are gonna go ahead with the sprouting/dehydrating - I'd be happy to tell you what works for me!
Thank you! Yeah, I think that is something I should try. I'm still not sure if making bread with sprouted red wheat will cut down on it's glycemic impact, but I'm willing to try it. I also trust you folks on this forum!!! I know that what might be fine for one person (in not raising blood glucose) may not work for someone else.

Do I need a flour mill of some kind to grind my own flour? If so I would like to know what mills are good and what ones aren't. I tried searching for this info on the forum, but didn't find anything specific.
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:21 PM   #10
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I have a Vitamix blender so that's what I use. I did buy the "dry blade" container for it, but I got a used on on eBay for about $50 IIRC. You CAN use the regular blade container, I did it for years, but the one meant for grains is a more upright blade configuration and it draws the grains down into the flour as it's grinding it.

I've researched various grain grinders in the past, but I have a tiny butt-bumper kitchen and not a lot of storage, and I really prefer a multi-purpose machine (which the Vitamix surely is!) so that's what I use.

I also have an Excalibur dehydrator. I do 5 quart mason jars of grain at a time, each one with 12 ounces of grain in it. Works perfectly and fills all 9 of the trays in the dehydrator.

It's a process, for sure, but I feel good knowing I've done the best I could possibly do for making our foods fresh and nutritious. DH does not do well with regular store-bought breads. We had switched to the Ezekiel bread back when TJ's still carried it - when they quit in preference for their own brands of sprouted grain breads (which we didn't care for nearly as much) I had to go to Whole Foods to get it. Nearly $5/loaf.

I happen to have two Zojirushi bread machines, and that's what I use - I use both and make two loaves at a time (in fact it smells REALLLY good in here right now - one loaf just came out, the other is a few minutes behind it) - yeah, it's work, but so worth it!

If you don't have a Vitamix, I highly recommend it! (I'm the resident Vitamix pusher. I have no connection whatsoever with the company. I just think they make a fantastic product.)

And yeah, I'm skeptical of the "organic" labels a lot of the time. There aren't any hard and fast guidelines as to what can be labeled that way. I do trust Honeyville Grain, but I just haven't yet convinced myself to spend the extra $$ for the organic grain.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:35 PM   #11
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I'm sure those bread makers and the Vitamix are great devices, but both are quite a bit above my allowance. I'm looking at various grain mills, but I think I will probably get the Blendtec 52-601-BHM Kitchen Mill from Amazon (~$180) unless some here have had problems with one.

As for a bread machine, I still have two of the old DAK units that work (just haven't used them since I found I was diabetic). I forget who really made that machine, but it looks like a small R2D2! Hey! I see that they are still for sale on ebay along with lots of the parts!
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:57 PM   #12
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I'm sure your breadmakers will work just fine! I just happened to have a model of the Zo that I bought probably ten years ago, quit using when we did strict low-carb, loaned it to friends who had it probably 7 years, used it once, and gave it back to me - RIGHT AFTER I bought a new one on Amazon!

You can buy a good used Vitamix on eBay too. The first one I had was a Maxi 4000 and I bought it used, think I paid $150 for it, with an extra container (they came with chromed steel containers then, one had a spigot for dispensing liquids!) and some extra parts. That thing would grind bricks, I swear. Not that I ever tried it. I finally decided I wanted to get a new one, so bought a refurbished 5000 from VM for $295, IIRC. It's still a workhorse.

I sold that old one on eBay, and sold one of the two containers separately, and got NEARLY enough to buy that refurbished new one! LOL!!

Sorry, I'm not familiar at all with grain mills, other than the hand-crank one I have here, which I've never used. It's for emergencies, like one of our earthquakes that knocks the power out for days (like the one in 1989 did) - I really ought to drag it out and try it one of these days though.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:14 PM   #13
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I thought about a hand-crank mill, but I've got enough arthritis that that may be a bit much for me to handle. Also, from what I have read on the 'net (I looked into them once before a couple years ago) the ~$30 cast metal mills have a problem grinding FINE flour like we usually want to use to make bread with. There is a hand-cranked mill called Victorio VKP1012 for ~$50 that does a good job grinding fine flour and for about another $25 you can upgrade to the Victorio VKP1024 Deluxe Grain Mill which has a larger grain bin and for another ~$50 you can electrify it; but by then you are very close to the ~$180 of the Blendtec 52-601-BHM Kitchen Mill 60-Ounce Electric Grain Mill which has a LOT of positive reviews and will grind faster than the Victorio models even if they are electrified.

I live in central PA and we are rarely without power for more than 2 or 3 hours; and then I can fire up a generator to get needed 110 VAC things going again.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:58 PM   #14
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Yes, the Victorio is the one we have. I don't remember which model though. It was around $50 IIRC. Will have to look at it tomorrow and see what we bought! LOL!
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:29 AM   #15
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Hey Charski, I just found the thread http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ed+wheat+bread and saw your recipe for sprouted wheat bread (which I will put below) and have to ask why you use so much vital wheat gluten? Does the sprouting process somehow remove gluten from the wheat?

Also about the VWG, we have stores run by Amish or Old Order Mennonite that sell a lot of bulk baking ingredients, but they aren't labeled well (sometimes just a name on a label). They sell "Wheat Gluten" that is a powder, is there any way I can determine if this will work as VWG other than simply trying to bake with it?

------------------------------------------------
Charski Sprouted Wheat flour bread recipe
------------------------------------------------

1 7/8 cups water
1 tsp. honey or molasses
1 tablespoon fat of choice (butter, bacon fat, olive oil, coconut oil)
1.5 pounds sprouted whole wheat flour
2 tsp. active dry yeast (I use the Red Star brand that I buy in bulk at Costco)
2 tablespoons whole milk powder (you could use nonfat, the whole milk is lower in carbs though. Hard to find - I ordered some from Amazon.)
2 tsp. salt
4 tablespoons vital wheat gluten

Put water, oil, and honey/molasses in pan first - then put the flour in, I make sure that I don't see any visible water anywhere, just spread the flour out a bit. Make a small well in the center, add the yeast in the well. Make sure it's not too deep - you don't want the yeast to get wet!

Put the other ingredients in the corners but make sure the salt doesn't touch the yeast.

Put pan in Zo, select Whole Wheat course. I almost always use the timer - I like all the ingredients to come up to room temp so I usually have it start a couple hours later.

When the "done" beep sounds, I set a timer for 10 minutes, then remove bread from oven, put a paper towel folded in half on a cooling rack, and turn the bread out, topside down, onto the paper towel; then cover completely with clean kitchen towel, wrapping around the sides, and let cool completely.
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Old 09-21-2013, 05:44 PM   #16
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Actually that is now my "old" recipe! LOL! I have cut back to 3 tablespoons of the VWG. I BELIEVE that VWG and WG are pretty much the same thing.

No, I don't think that sprouting removes any of the gluten - but whole grain flours are heavier and need a little more help developing a stretchy gluten for good rise, so I've always used it. I hate to mess with success so haven't tried a loaf without it, except for one hand-kneaded bread (vs. the bread machine bread I normally make) and it came out fine.

This was the recommendation in the cookbook that came with the Zo bread machines.

I've also since found that I get better rise with 1 tsp. yeast and 1.5 T. whole milk powder.

I'm actually now making a spent-grains bread, because we started homebrewing beer last spring - hated to throw out the grains from the mashing part of the process, so my current recipe calls for 4 oz. spent grains, 2.5 cups sprouted wheat flour, 1 cup water, 2 T. olive oil, 2 T. DME (dried malt extract - another ingredient for homebrewing, I use this instead of any sugar), 1 tsp. dark molasses, 1 tsp. yeast, 2 tsp. salt, 1.5 T. dried milk powder, 3 T. VWG. We adore this bread! Spent grains are also a sprouted grain - the malting process requires sprouting the barley, then it is kiln-dried to different levels of roasty goodness, and you choose which you want based on the type of beer you're making.

Today's homebrew is a "fizzy yellow beer" (think - Budweiser type, only tastier) - last brew was a brown porter, so the spent grains were considerably darker for the dark color of the beer and maltier flavor profile - and made a FANTASTIC loaf of bread.

Yum yum!

Last edited by Charski; 09-21-2013 at 05:46 PM..
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:38 PM   #17
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While this isn't the forum for this topic, people that have had a GOOD homemade beer hate the thought of having to drink a BudMillCoors ever again! It's the homemade stuff that is actually healthy for you!

The used grains and the malt would be GREAT for bread!
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:53 PM   #18
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OK, the new recipes from Charski should be:

-----------------------------------------------------------
Charski's *NEW* Sprouted Wheat flour bread recipe
-----------------------------------------------------------

I have cut back to 3 tablespoons of the VWG. I've also since found that I get better rise with 1 tsp. yeast and 1.5 T. whole milk powder.

1 7/8 cups water
1 tsp. honey or molasses
1 tablespoon fat of choice (butter, bacon fat, olive oil, coconut oil)
1.5 pounds sprouted whole wheat flour
1 tsp. active dry yeast (I use the Red Star brand that I buy in bulk at Costco)
1.5 tablespoons whole milk powder (you could use nonfat, the whole milk is lower in carbs though. Hard to find - I ordered some from Amazon.)
2 tsp. salt
3 tablespoons vital wheat gluten

Put water, oil, and honey/molasses in pan first - then put the flour in, I make sure that I don't see any visible water anywhere, just spread the flour out a bit. Make a small well in the center, add the yeast in the well. Make sure it's not too deep - you don't want the yeast to get wet!

Put the other ingredients in the corners but make sure the salt doesn't touch the yeast.

Put pan in Zo, select Whole Wheat course. I almost always use the timer - I like all the ingredients to come up to room temp so I usually have it start a couple hours later.

When the "done" beep sounds, I set a timer for 10 minutes, then remove bread from oven, put a paper towel folded in half on a cooling rack, and turn the bread out, topside down, onto the paper towel; then cover completely with clean kitchen towel, wrapping around the sides, and let cool completely.

-----------------------------------------
Charski's Spent-Grains bread recipe
-----------------------------------------

I'm actually now making a spent-grains bread, because we started homebrewing beer last spring. Spent grains are also a sprouted grain - the malting process requires sprouting the barley, then it is kiln-dried to different levels of roasty goodness, and you choose which you want based on the type of beer you're making.

1 cup water
1 tsp. dark molasses
2 T. olive oil
2.5 cups sprouted wheat flour
4 oz. spent grains
1 tsp. yeast
1.5 T. dried milk powder
2 tsp. salt
3 T. VWG
2 T. DME (dried malt extract - another ingredient for homebrewing, I use this instead of any sugar)
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:51 PM   #19
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Oh thank you for doing that!

And I'm gonna agree - store-bought beer does not hold a candle to homemade brew. Well, unless you buy all your beer from microbreweries. But even THEN - the beer will most likely be pasteurized to stop the continued production of C02, which will make a nice "bottle grenade" if you're not careful!

Anyone interested in spent grains but not brewing beer - check with your local microbrewery, or local brew store, or put up a "wanted" ad for some on Freecycle or Craigslist. Many whole-grain brewers just toss the stuff out or feed it to their chickens - sacrilege!

I always give some away on Freecycle because I end up with around 13 to 15 pounds of it. WAY more than I can use, at one cup per loaf.

However there is a website called brooklynbrewshop which has a whole section dedicated to cooking with spent grains. I need to try some of their stuff!
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charski View Post
Oh thank you for doing that!
You are very welcome! I just hope I got everything right because I see that I can no longer edit anything!

Quote:
And I'm gonna agree - store-bought beer does not hold a candle to homemade brew. Well, unless you buy all your beer from microbreweries. But even THEN - the beer will most likely be pasteurized to stop the continued production of C02, which will make a nice "bottle grenade" if you're not careful!
People that drink "regular" beer in America don't really know what real beer tastes like. If you go into a bar or restaurant and order "a beer" you will get a Pilsner type, which while it is a valid style, it is very weak and watery compared to a good Porter or Stout style. And you are right Charski, even the microbreweries have to filter (and usually pasteurize) their brews to sell them commercially which takes out a LOT of the good stuff that SHOULD be in beer! The yeast that is in the bottle (mostly dead) are VERY rich in B vitamins! As far as excess Co2 goes, if one is very careful how much fermentable sugar goes into each bottle those "grenades" should be VERY rare.

Did you ever think about drying and bagging your unused spent grain?

Last edited by Harpmaker; 09-22-2013 at 07:23 PM..
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:09 AM   #21
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Fully agree on the beer comments! My faves turn out to be the brown porters. I love the malty taste on them. Not a big fan of overly-hopped and/or bitter beers. IPAs are mostly a "no go" for me.

We don't have the equipment for lagering, so are sticking with the ale yeasts right now. The current "fizzy yellow beer" is being made with Nottingham dry yeast which we rehydrate according to the directions, and is fermenting at the bottom of the range for the yeast - about 57*. It SHOULD give a lager-like end result. I personally don't care much about this type of beer, however, we will use it as a base for our roasted jalapeno pepper beer, which is REALLY good!

I have dried the spent grains in my Excalibur and then ground them in the Vitamix. It worked OK. The problem I found was that the spent grains are much lighter (in weight) when dried than the regular sprouted wheat we do, so it had a tendency to fall through the mesh and blow around a bit inside the dehydrator.

Also, the breads I made using 1/2 cup of that flour and 2 cups of our regular sprouted wheat flour were much more dense than I preferred. The breads made with 4 oz. of the undried spent grains has a much nicer texture overall and a lovely taste!

I may, however, dry and grind another load, because having discovered the website I mentioned - there are so many recipes there which DO use the spent grains in dried/ground form.

What I normally do though is to measure out 4 oz. into each sandwich baggie, seal, and put the lot of them into a bigger gallon freezer ziploc and throw them in the freezer. They defrost pretty quickly when needed for breadmaking.

Wish you lived closer - I'd give you some to play with!

One of my "regulars" is coming by today to pick up the five pounds he asked for!

Now HE makes this really interesting overnight, slightly-sour recipe with the grains. He was kind enough to bring us a couple slices, as well as fork over the recipe. It's pretty much a no- to little-knead thing. I haven't tried making it myself yet but I want to soon!
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Old 09-29-2013, 10:32 AM   #22
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For anyone interested in experimenting with spent grains in baking, I recommend checking with your local brew supply store, or any local microbreweries - they usually have more spent grains than they know what to do with!

An additional source could be found on Freecycle or Craigslist - post a "wanted" for spent grains - that's how I got takers for mine the first time around. Or put the term "spent grains" into the Freecycle or Craigslist search engines - somebody may already be offering them up!
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:38 PM   #23
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OK, I tried sprouting some wheat grains with some "sprouting boxes" a friend gave me. While they worked after a fashion I don't think they got as wet as with methods I've read and seen elsewhere. Here are some photos:







While I think many grains might have too-long sprouts, some are just barely sprouted.



I'm currently trying to dry the gains on cookie sheets under a ceiling fan over the kitchen table. I tried putting these sheets in a 170° F gas oven, but I thought it might be too hot.



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Old 09-29-2013, 03:47 PM   #24
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Not bad for a first try!

They are oversprouted for yeast bread making - but once dried/ground into flour they should be fine for other baking.

I've found (through trial and error) and you want them JUST sprouted, you want the sprout to be about 1/3 the length of the grain, no more than that.

What I do is use the quart mason jars - I have cut plastic window screen to fit over the tops so that you can use a canning ring to secure it to the jar. Put 12 oz. of grain into the jar, rinse with hot water (tap hot, not scalding - you want to be able to still stand to put your hand under the running water from the tap), then fill with hot water and let stand overnight. I put mine into an insulated bag, the type you might take to the supermarket to put your ice cream into once purchased so it gets home still frozen.

Next morning, drain, rinse with warm water, tilt at about a 45* angle with the top down so it can drain well - I also shake the grain so it sits along the side of the jar, not obscuring the entire top, so that air can freely move in and out of the jar. I bought a bacteria-resistant sink drainer and put the jars in that so they'll easily stay at the right angle. Rinse/drain again in the evening, and again the next morning - by then mine are at the perfect length for dehydrating. YMMV based on your ambient room temp. I do five jars at a time as that's just the right amount to dehydrate on my nine Excalibur dehyrator trays.

Those sprouting boxes look neat though! Maybe just not let them get so long next time?
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:35 PM   #25
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I thought I should update this thread even though I haven't properly sprouted any wheat grains just yet, been busy as heck!

In the interim I purchased a Blendtec 52-601-BHM Kitchen Mill 60-Ounce Electric Grain Mill and a Rosewill R-BM-01 2 lbs. Programmable Bread Maker (which is the same as the Sunbeam 5891). Paid about $180 for the mill and $40 for the breadmaker. Both work great! Now to some photos (quite a lot of them ).

Screen made for the top of a quart jar and a ring
To make these just lay a lid down on the fiberglass screen and cut around it with an X-acto knife, scalpel or a very small sharp knife.



Assembled



Blendtec mill top



Bottom



Grinding mechanism



Side view




With a gallon baggie of wheat flour in the grinding container



Gallon baggies with wheat grain and the flour made from it



Made some flour from 2.41 pound bag of brown rice



Honeyville Red Wheat Bran flour for comparison



Rosewill R-BM-01 / Sunbeam 5891 breadmaker



With lid opened



Some bread made with this machine
Loaf on right made with 100% Hard Red Wheat flour. Loaf on left made with 50% Hard Red Wheat flour and 50% Red Wheat Bran flour.



Close up of 100% loaf




Close up of 50/50 loaf



Showing how thin it is possible to cut these loaves




I know these loaves don't fall into the LC category (the one made with 50% bran might be close), but both my mother and I (Type-2 Diabetics) can eat the 50% bran bread as long as we don't pig out on it. I think mom can also eat the 100% Hard Red Wheat bread, but I haven't tested myself on it yet. While these loaves are not "puffy" like hi-gluten flour makes they are far from being "bricks" like I made when I first discovered I was diabetic. I remember a loaf of rye bread (100% rye flour) that might have been used to pound in nails! The taste of the 50% bran bread reminds me a LOT of pumpernickel!

The mill, while loud, isn't an ear-splitter and I would say it is just a bit louder than a big hair-dryer. It is relatively easy to clean with just a dry cloth, but to get it pristine a few shots of canned air would be needed. The wheat ground very nicely. but I had to help the brown rice into the bottom of the hopper a few times by lightly tapping on the side of the container.

I am REALLY glad I bought this inexpensive breadmaker! While making my second loaf with this machine the power went off and on 3 times in about 30 seconds! If I had been using my old DAK breadmaker I would have had to finish the loaf by hand! With the Rosewill/Sunbeam machine if the power goes off within the first 30 minutes of starting a cycle it will continue when the power comes back on! This machine normally sells for around $70, but many times deals can be had for it around $40.

Last edited by Harpmaker; 10-10-2013 at 01:40 PM.. Reason: Spelling
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:26 PM   #26
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WOW nice job!!

Funny, I was just thinking about you yesterday, that I hadn't heard from you for a while - and here you are, with excellent photos!!
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