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Old 04-20-2013, 12:32 AM   #1
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sausage 'flour'

I am blessed with having a few acres, and I grow my own meat. We're about ready to send some sheep to the butchers and I want one turned into sausages. NZ law requires the butcher to add flour to the mix to fill some legal ingredients list or another

my butcher is a lovely man and he has said he will use an alternative flour if I provide it, as long as it has the same quilities of flour. It needs to bind the meat together.

Any suggestions? I think coconut flour might be too dry, and LSA too gritty. Almond doesnt grab me either.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:39 AM   #2
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Wow, that is weird! I've never heard of flour being added to sausage.

I'm sorry, I have no suggestions, I've just never heard of such a thing.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:50 AM   #3
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Our butcher doesn't and the edelweiss gourmet butchery in feilding are famous for not adding ANYTHING to their sausages.
You need a new butcher.We used to get animals done in Oxford,North Canterbury all the time without any of this nonsense so it isn't even a South island thing.iI think the butcher just doesn't want to deviate from his recipe.
I grew up on meat only snags and they are beautiful.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:50 AM   #4
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I got him to give me the weights. For 40kgs of sausage meat he adds 2.5kg flour. That works out to 16gm per packet (1kgs packetes), so per sausage it roughly comes out at 5gm.

Since I am trying to stay under <30gm a day, it doesnt give me much to play with, and I can only have one sausage I REALLY want to eat more sausage

The flour is the only additive he puts in, so at least I know there are no chemicals in my meat, I just dont want the wheat flour either.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:52 AM   #5
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Limited home kill certified guys around here, unless I send my animals to Oamaru.

It doesnt matter if its wrong or right, or if its weird. It is what it is. I can work within his parameters, I just need to know what other options there are. He has offered 'gluten free', but I only know grain flours in that catagory.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:53 AM   #6
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actually our law just says it must be MORE than 50% meat to be a sausage.That's why those cheezy things are called sizzlers,because they don't qualify.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:55 AM   #7
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Ask him to leave it out.He will have to back down if you push it.He is lying and he knows it.Or if you have a kenwood get a sausage stuffer attachment and make your own.Sometimes mum did that to save money.Butchers sell the prepped skins.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:01 AM   #8
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I am so not making my own Nope, not going there

There really is a requirement - I just looked it up.

And no I cant push it, already tried, but thank you for your suggestion.

If worst come to worst, I'll just carry on with my one sauasge. I am just sure there are alternatives.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:40 AM   #9
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Can you get Lupin flour?
Oat flour is a bit lower than wheat flour.
Would he concider protein powder? Or egg white powder?

You might want to ask your question on the recipe board.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:11 AM   #10
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Can he make a special order that is NOT sausage?

He may be required to add flour to sausage, but if you state clearly that you do not want *sausage,* you just want your meat ground and stuffed in casings (or whatever the best description is), that law wouldn't apply. It's not sausage, it's a special order by a customer.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:29 AM   #11
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I might consider the oat flour or soy flour.

Maybe a mixture of flours?
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:58 AM   #12
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:49 PM   #13
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Thank you for the suggestions. ive been googling them and it seems that coconut flour is going to be the best option. Im going to give him a jar of crushed garlic as well and have garlic sausages. MMMMMMMMM
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:40 AM   #14
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Coconut flour is way more absorbent than regular flour. Use 1/3 (or even less) of the amount of flour you would normally use.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:19 AM   #15
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Man that just plain sucks, that you can't get your OWN meat made the way YOU want it! What kind of proof do YOU have to offer him when you take him what you want added to it?

I'd be sorely tempted to just use eggwhite powder. Tell him it's eggwhite FLOUR. Or empty another jar that's labeled flour and put the eggwhite powder into it.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:43 PM   #16
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could you let me know where the regulations are written?
I hunted the net but I found nothing.If things have changed I need to tell friends on lifestyle blocks straight away.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:59 PM   #17
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I'm curious also what "qualities" this added flour must have to satisfy regulations.

Oat Fiber comes to mind, but it depends on what the "Qualities" are.

Please come back and let us know the details.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:57 PM   #18
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I've noticed that English and Irish bangers, that I purchase all have either
flour or Rusk (dried bread) in them. It makes them have a few grams of
carb for each banger. Now I understand why they do it. Had no idea that it
was a requirement.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:56 AM   #19
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It certainly didn't use to be.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:17 PM   #20
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If you haven't already taken it to him, & come back in here to take a look again before you do, I'd suggest part of the flour would be Lupin. Also maybe part Oat fiber along with the coconut you are thinking of. That is unless you are allergic to legumes. (Lupin is a legume.) It has a lot less carbs than the coconut, and the oat fiber has no net carbs. Then like you said, have him use the least amount he can add. Then at least it wouldn't be adding very many carbs, and would add more fiber!
Just a thought.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:53 PM   #21
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I would be very cautious with the amount if you use coconut flour. I have been using a combination of ground flaxseed meal and coconut flour to substitute for dried bread crumbs in ground meat recipes (lamb patties and meat loaf made with ground beef, specifically). I use 1 to 1.5 tablespoons of each for 1 pound meat, to substitute for 1/3 cup breadcrumbs, or up to 2 slices fresh bread. It actually works very well and I think it would be good in sausage but you cannot use the same amount you would as regular flour or it will dry up the meat in a hurry. If the butcher is open to adding more water to compensate if he overdoes the coconut flour it might be ok. But using less to start with is better.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwistars View Post
could you let me know where the regulations are written?
I hunted the net but I found nothing.If things have changed I need to tell friends on lifestyle blocks straight away.
I found this that says Australia New Zealand Food Standards Code. Does it apply to both countries? It seems to be an Australian site:

Australia New Zealand Food Standards Code - Standard 2.2.1 - Meat and Meat Products

Quote:
sausage means meat that is minced, or comminuted meat or a combination thereof, which may be combined with other foods, encased or formed into discrete units, but does not include meat formed or joined into the semblance of cuts of meat.


Division 2 – Compositional requirements



2 Deleted



3 Composition of sausage


Sausage must contain –


(a) no less than 500g/kg of fat free meat flesh; and

(b) the proportion of fat in sausage must be no more than 500g/kg of the fat free meat flesh content.

Last edited by Mistizoom; 04-22-2013 at 06:00 PM..
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:38 PM   #23
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No we have separate laws.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:39 PM   #24
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Like the US and Canada we are close but very separate countries
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwistars View Post
Like the US and Canada we are close but very separate countries
I know that. My family has been close to a family in New Zealand since I was in third grade. But if you go to that site you will see what I mean - they make it seem like there are overlapping common laws. That's what I was asking about.

ETA: For example, there's an editorial note that says this:

Quote:
Editorial note:

Clause 11 applies to Australia only. Bovine products imported for sale in New Zealand are regulated by the New Zealand Food (Prescribed Foods) Standard 2007 and associated import requirements.
which made me think the rest of the info applies to both countries.

Last edited by Mistizoom; 04-22-2013 at 06:52 PM..
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:29 PM   #26
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I think that is referring to inter country export material.We have had a lot of fuss about our government trying to use the Aussie rules for food and medicine which would adversely affect the availability of some supplements etc so it is still two separate systems at least for now.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:34 AM   #27
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Not quite Kiwistars.

So after reading thoughts here, I rang my butcher again and blank asked him if he would make me a non flour/starch containing sausage. He said NO. End. Of. Story.

However he did give me the number of another guy, who I rang. I prefaced the discussion by saying I did not want wheat, potato or rice flour in my sausages. He ok, he would just use the normal sausage meal. "What is that?" I asked. "Oh just a mix of stuff that binds the meat together and stops it crumbling" "What does it contain"? I asked. "Wheat and stuff"

I re explained the NO WHEAT bit of no wheat.

He VERY reluctantly has agreed to try an alternative flour. Most reluctant.

Following on with that I continued my reseach into all things kiwi sausage related. it turns out I was 'half right'. There is a legal requirement for breadcrumbs - for sausages styled as ENGLISH sausages, as noted by Barbo. One of the most common kinds available in NZ.

So, I moved on and rang the NZ meat board.

Turns out that Mistizoom is quite correct - the Australia New Zealand Food Standards Code - Standard 2.2.1 - Meat and Meat Products IS the legal standard by which meat is regulated in NZ. And the only requirement is a minimum of 50% meat - which is why Sizzlers cannot be sold as sausages in NZ, and the fat limitations for 'low fat' marketed kinds.

There was some past differences in processed meat regulations, between OZ and NZ, namely over the contents of pies, but in the interests of CER, there is now a combined international regulatory model.

There is no actual nationwide requirement, although the nice lady did point out that some regions may have differing requirements. Having decided I had spent tenough time on this exercise, I didnt follow that one up.

DH has bought a sausages making machine. I told him he was on his own with that endevour. We are shooting the sheep this weekend and will take them to the butchers on Monday. I will take a print out of the 2 reciepes we want him to make with the correct proportions of coconut flour for one, and for the pork lard which is the binding agent in the other.

Thank you all for your suggestions, I have found the range to be intersting.

Last edited by lilbeetle; 04-24-2013 at 01:40 AM..
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:39 AM   #28
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I miss our old butcher in Christchurch.We asked him what the filler was he used in the beef sausages.He looked confused then said in a questioning tone "mutton?"

He also did huge 15 dollar meat packs.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:49 AM   #29
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Yep, my butcher in Taranaki always made meat sausage as did my one in the Manawatu. The South Islad is like a differnt country sometimes. They even pronounce maori words different.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:52 AM   #30
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yeah we are finding the North Island a bit different.Way more maori around for a start.I missed seeing the range of different faces and I missed the 'bro speak' I heard growing up in Northland.Nice to hear it again.
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