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Old 02-20-2013, 08:31 AM   #1
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Charski, tell me you method for making sprouted grain bread.

I see your comments about it in other threads but I can't find anywhere where you describe your methods and materials. Would you please share with me?

Thanks,
Pam


and that's supposed to say your not you in the title (terrible typist I am)
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:31 AM   #2
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Pam, I'm very happy to share with you! I want everyone to understand that DH and I are on maintenance, this is NOT a "low carb" bread - but it makes a sprouted bread, which removes the phytic acid and other things about the whole dry wheat kernel that we don't want. THAT being said - here we go!

We buy 50 pounds of organic whole wheat at a time. We have an Excalibur dehydrator and a Vitamix blender, without which these processes would be near impossible for us. We also have a new Zojirushi bread machine which does an AWESOME job with these heavier doughs.

To start - I use 5 one quart Mason jars. DH cut some brand new plastic-mesh window screen to fit over the jars, and that is held in place by the metal screw-on lids you'd use for canning. Add 12 ounces of the wheat to each jar and secure the lids/screen. Fill the jar with hot tap water, swirl the wheat around, pour off the water, and repeat. Then fill the jar with hot tap water, put it in a cooler, and repeat til all are filled. Let them sit overnight and soak. (We usually start this process right after dinner, so the jars can sit all night.)

Next morning - drain off the water (save it you like to water your plants - they love this stuff!) and rinse well, drain. Now the sprouting begins!

We have a small wooden rack that can hold the jars at an angle so the water drains off. This is not necessary but you DO want the water to drain away, so figure out what works for your setup to do this. I put down the lid of a large storage container on my countertop, put that rack right up next to it, and tilt the jars at an angle that allows draining into the storage container lid. You want air to get in and water to get out. This will now be referred to as the draining/sprouting tray.

Rinse and drain (with warm water) and set the jars in your draining/sprouting tray. Do this 3 times per day the first day; the next day, check for sprouting. Usually they'll have started - you'll see a small white tip appear at the end of each wheat kernel. You want this exposed but not long, less than half the length of the seed itself. The wheat will also expand - so when the jar is full, the wheat is usually sprouted just right! Ours generally takes 1.5 days - so soak, next day drain and start sprouting, next day around 10 am or so, they're ready for the dehydrator. If you sprout them TOO long, they're still OK for non-yeast items (waffles, pancakes, biscuits, or whatever) but from the voice of experience - they don't play well in yeast breads! Give them one last warm-water rinse and drain.

Spread the soaked grains out evenly amongst the dehydrator trays. Here, too, we cut the plastic mesh window screen to fit the trays - keeps seeds from dropping through! The Excalibur we have has 9 trays so I just try to pour out an even amount from the jars onto each tray. Don't be too worried about it though, they'll all dry. Make sure they're in a nice even layer though. I just do that by spreading around with the flat of my hand.

Now into the dehydrator! I set mine at the top of the orange range, which equates to 145* F. Let run til grains are completely dried and hard to the bite - takes about 3.5 to 4 hours total.

Let cool completely. At this point you can either grind them into flour or you can store the sprouted grains for future use. We vacuum-seal ours if we're not going to grind right away.

When ready to make flour, I get out my biggest plastic bowl and a large metal mesh sieve. I run the Vitamix while DH sifts the flour. Run about 1 to 1.5 cups of the sprouted wheat at a time - put VM on highest speed, pulse on and off a couple times to get things going, then let run til you see a nice fine flour developing - about 30 seconds, give or take. I've been doing this with the container that came with the VM, but after talking to the VM demo guy at Costco, I decided to go ahead and buy a dry container. He claims that using the regular container is fine but eventually it will dull the blades to the point where it won't make smooth smoothies. Personally I think that's probably not gonna happen, at the speed those blades travel it probably doesn't make any difference - it's gonna pulverize anything in there! BUT I got one off eBay for a good price this morning so we shall see!

When sifting, there usually remain a few larger pieces than will go through the sieve. We save those off to a smaller bowl, then reprocess at the end, and you get nearly 100% return in flour.

I move the flour into a big Ziploc bag, let it cool completely (the grinding process warms it slightly) and then label and freeze.

This all SOUNDS very laborious but it really isn't. It only takes a couple minutes to weigh the wheat into each jar (I put an empty jar on my digital scales, turn the scales on, and pour in the wheat to 12 oz.), then soak, and next day, set up the sprouting tray; then a couple minutes each day for a day and a half to rinse/sprout; then a few minutes to spread on the trays and dehydrate; maybe 20 minutes to process the whole lot into flour.

If you're still reading - let me know if you want the actual bread recipe and instructions for the Zo!

We love this bread, it's much less $$ than the Ezekiel (which is up to nearly $5/loaf unless it's on sale) and we can control exactly what goes into it.

I should take pictures next time we start a sprouting session. DH has the sprouting counter taken up with his beermaking stuff at the moment, because we got pretty far ahead with the wheat sprouting/drying/packaging - but probably next week we'll do some more. I'll try to remember to do the pictures!
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Last edited by Charski; 02-20-2013 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:09 AM   #3
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Thank you so much for taking the time to type that all out, I would like to try it as well.

Would you mind posting the recipe for your bread?

Thanks,
Gwen
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:44 AM   #4
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Sure, no problem - it's actually the recipe from the book that came with the Zo, but I change up which fat/sugar I add just for grins!

1 7/8 cups water
1 tsp. honey or molasses
1 tablespoon fat of choice (butter, bacon fat, olive oil, coconut oil)
1.5 pounds sprouted whole wheat flour
2 tsp. active dry yeast (I use the Red Star brand that I buy in bulk at Costco)
2 tablespoons whole milk powder (you could use nonfat, the whole milk is lower in carbs though. Hard to find - I ordered some from Amazon.)
2 tsp. salt
4 tablespoons vital wheat gluten

Put water, oil, and honey/molasses in pan first - then put the flour in, I make sure that I don't see any visible water anywhere, just spread the flour out a bit. Make a small well in the center, add the yeast in the well. Make sure it's not too deep - you don't want the yeast to get wet!

Put the other ingredients in the corners but make sure the salt doesn't touch the yeast.

Put pan in Zo, select Whole Wheat course. I almost always use the timer - I like all the ingredients to come up to room temp so I usually have it start a couple hours later.

When the "done" beep sounds, I set a timer for 10 minutes, then remove bread from oven, put a paper towel folded in half on a cooling rack, and turn the bread out, topside down, onto the paper towel; then cover completely with clean kitchen towel, wrapping around the sides, and let cool completely.

Once cooled, I put it in a gallon ziploc, which won't QUITE hold the loaf, and then put another ziploc over the open end, and the towel back over all THAT; let sit at least a couple hours, which will soften the crust and make it easier to slice evenly.

I use my electric slicing knife to cut even slices - I usually get the two ends (I cut those off first) and then 16 or 17 slices.

I just figured out the calories per slice, they run about 130. Haven't added up the carbs/fiber yet though.

Let me know if anyone else goes through all this process!

Last edited by Charski; 02-20-2013 at 11:46 AM..
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:17 PM   #5
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Thank you so much.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:06 PM   #6
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You're very welcome - now we're even for you getting me that Apple Pie recipe!
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:46 PM   #7
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You're very welcome - now we're even for you getting me that Apple Pie recipe!
Oh, I forgot about that, have you tried it yet?


I've order 15lbs of einkorn (sp?) to try this with.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:49 PM   #8
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Thank you so much Charski, I really appreciate it. I'm going to give this a try. When you say hot water how hot are we talking? My hot water heater is cranked all the way up because my dishwasher is old and the heating elements don't get as hot as they used to, so we give it a little bit of a head start by already having very hot water coming out of the tap. (No little kids in the house to worry about burning.)

Do I have to worry about killing something with water that's too hot? I'm talking water that is so hot that when I kill a chicken for dinner all I need to scald it with in order to pick the feathers is a bucket of hot tap water and then I have to be careful not to leave it in the bucket too long because it will damage the skin.

How low carb does this make the flour....how often are you able to use this and not throw your blood sugar out of whack?

Thanks,
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:59 PM   #9
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Pam, we tried a slightly modified version of what you sent and we LOVE it. It's so good! What the heck is eikorn, and where did you get it??

Gwen, I'd say probably about 100* - slightly warmer than body temp would be fine. Our hot water heater is set to a low setting because I was burning myself with the too-hot water!

I really don't know how to gauge how low-carb this IS - but we eat it daily and have no problems. There isn't any formal blood-testing going on here because neither of us is diabetic, but it runs on both sides of DH's family and he's pretty insulin-resistant. He often has two pieces of this, toasted, with some homemade no-sugar-added jelly for breakfast, and he says he's not hungry most days til lunchtime. He eats a sandwich with two pieces of the bread and 2 ounces of turkey and a slice of light Jarlsberg cheese for lunch, and he'll often have a piece or two of toast for a snack after dinner - so up to 6 pieces a day for him and he's not complaining of being hungry - but YMMV as you know!

Let me know if either of you gives this a whirl. I'm interested in other feedback!

Last week I also did some oats, although they didn't sprout because they were dehulled, but they softened up and hopefully expelled excess starch - I then dehydrated, ground into flour, and substituted 1 cup of that for 1 cup of the wheat flour. It needs work, the top got all weird like over-yeasting/over-rising will do, but it sure was tasty.

I've also used some wheat bran and/or psyllium husk in the straight wheat bread, by taking the WW flour up to 1.4 pounds and then adding a couple tablespoons of psyllium husk and then adding in wheat bran til I got to the 1.5 pounds total mark. That's a little more dense finished product but of course, higher in fiber hence lower in total carbs. So it CAN be played with too.

I wish that I didn't have to use the VWG - have been too skeert to just leave it out so far, but I may start cutting it back some and see what results I get.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:47 PM   #10
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WOW! That's great. I'm going to try this but I'll have to drive into town to get some screen mesh for my jars. I have to go into town tomorrow to take my son for his physical therapy so I'll stop in Walmart on the way home.

My dehydrator is one of the old round kind with the hole in the middle and I think it only has 5 or 6 trays. Does the wheat need to be in a single layer or can I stack it up a bit and still get it to dry ok.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:53 PM   #11
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You can stack the trays, Gwen, just make sure to get the sprouted wheat patted out to as thin a layer as possible. You might want to start with maybe 3 jars - I think 5 jars would be too much for the number of trays you have. It may take longer to dry also - I know my old Snackmaster dehydrator took longer to dry things than the Excaliber does.

Let me know what happens!
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:51 PM   #12
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Thanks, I'll let you know how it all turns out. I'll make some bread and do my blood sugar readings and let you know how it goes.

I'd give my eye teeth to be able to make some of my homemade flour tortillas again. I used to make some wet burritos that would knock your socks off.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:57 PM   #13
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Oh, now THERE is something I hadn't thought to make yet! I have a couple containers of oversprouted wheat that would be perfect for just such a culinary treat!

Would you share your recipe, purty please???

I hope the sprouted wheat flour works for you! Can't wait to hear how it goes.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:07 PM   #14
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Sure:

To make the refried beans.....
When I have some left over small red beans I put them in the food processor and grind them up with a little of the bean broth until they are the thickness I like. Then heat some bacon drippings in a large non-stick skillet and "fry" them until they are pipping hot.

Flour Tortillas....
4 cups flour
2 teaspoons salt
2 teaspoons baking powder
1/2-teaspoon sugar
4 tablespoons shortening
1-1/4 cups warm water

Place flour, salt, baking powder, and sugar into the mixing bowl of mixer with paddle attachment. Stir on lowest speed to mix ingredients. Add the shortening to the flour and allow paddle attachment to cut it into the flour until it all worked in.

Add the water and mix to combine. Remove the paddle attachment and replace with the dough hook. Knead the dough until it is satiny-smooth…about 1 to 1-1/2 minutes.

Clean and oil the kitchen counter where you will be working. Remove the dough from the bowl and cut into 10 equal pieces, each about the size of an egg. Cover with plastic wrap and allow to rest on the counter for 10 minutes.

Heat a 9-inch cast iron skillet on medium-low heat while dough is resting. Roll dough out with a bollito or small rolling pin until dough is about 1/8 inch thick. Cook each tortilla until it has light brown flecks on each side.
Roll next tortilla while the previous one is cooking.

Makes 10 tortillas.





RED SAUCE:
6 Tablespoons of oil
1/3 cup flour
4 cups water
4 chicken bullion cubes
1 tsp. ground cumin
3 tablespoons chili powder
2 teaspoon garlic powder
1 teaspoon onion powder
pinch of Cayenne Pepper or a pinch of red pepper flakes

Put oil in a saucepan over medium-low heat. Add the flour and cook and stir until the flour is lightly browned. Add the water and stir with a wire whisk until smooth. Add the bullion and spices and cook until smooth and bubbly. Cover and simmer on lowest heat, about 10 or 15 minutes. Gravy should be very thin, if not add a little water to thin it out.

TO MAKE THE WET BURRITOS

Pour half of the red sauce into a baking pan

Roll a couple of tablespoons of beans and some cheese up in one of your tortillas

Cover burritos with the rest of the sauce.

Put a burrito with some sauce on a plate and heat until hot and bubbly in the microwave and eat. Of course I used to serve them with some Spanish rice....
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:52 PM   #15
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Oh man does that ever sound GOOD!

I make Spanish "rice" with quinoa. We like it BETTER than regular rice.

Yep, I think I'm gonna try those tortillas with some of my over-sprouted grains. THANK YOU Gwen!
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:21 AM   #16
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Your welcome, let me know how it turns out. I'm very anxious to try some of this flour myself.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:28 AM   #17
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With any luck, it will work for YOU as well as it works for DH. He's sure pleased to eat homemade bread again. The Ezekiel bread is very good, don't get me wrong, but it's gotten expensive and still has some soy in it, which I really try to avoid.

Being able to sprout/dry/grind the grains right here at home is so great!
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:39 AM   #18
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The tortillas look great, thanks for the recipes, especially the red sauce. I've tried a number of different red sauce recipes and still haven't found one I really like.

Einkorn wheat is the type of grain people ate a long time ago, it's called an ancient grain and hasn't been extensively hybridized or selctively bred like modern wheat. Modern wheat is not GMO. Either Gary Taubes of Dr. Davis talked about it in one of their books and I've wanted to try it and it's now easier to find.

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Old 02-21-2013, 12:07 PM   #19
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Oh man does that ever sound GOOD!

I make Spanish "rice" with quinoa. We like it BETTER than regular rice.

Yep, I think I'm gonna try those tortillas with some of my over-sprouted grains. THANK YOU Gwen!
I'd like to try your spanish rice recipe using quinoa. we tried making it with cau'iflower and though edible, we won't be trying that again anytime soon. lol TIA Caren
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:30 PM   #20
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Wow, what an interesting thread. I would never have the patience to do all of that, but I am impressed!! I read through the whole thread. I have heard of Einkorn flour - believe it was Dr. Davis that mentioned it, Pam. You are correct.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:40 PM   #21
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The tortillas look great, thanks for the recipes, especially the red sauce. I've tried a number of different red sauce recipes and still haven't found one I really like.

Einkorn wheat is the type of grain people ate a long time ago, it's called an ancient grain and hasn't been extensively hybridized or selctively bred like modern wheat. Modern wheat is not GMO. Either Gary Taubes of Dr. Davis talked about it in one of their books and I've wanted to try it and it's now easier to find.
Well that's cool, Pam! Thanks, I'm gonna look that up!

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I'd like to try your spanish rice recipe using quinoa. we tried making it with cau'iflower and though edible, we won't be trying that again anytime soon. lol TIA Caren
Caren, have you ever cooked quinoa? Just asking because you might want a "primer" on it first if you haven't! There IS a thread all about it on here someplace.

Basically what I do is get some fat hot in a skillet - about 2 tablespoons - and my faves are the manteca they have at the Mexican market, which they've used to cook pork for carnitas, or just some good lard or bacon fat; and if I'm REALLY industrious, I'll make up a batch of fat that has had some annato seeds dropped in it, then cooked til you JUST start to smell the fragrance of the annato, then you take it off the heat so it won't burn. I put that in a jar and into the fridge and use it for a lot of Mexican dishes.

Anyway, stir a cup of dry quinoa into the hot fat, keep stirring to coat all the grains and get them a little bit toasty. Then add 1.5 cups of water,and 1/4 to 1/2 cup of your fave salsa, bring to a simmer, cover and let cook til the quinoa is tender. That's my "quick and dirty" Spanish rice!

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Wow, what an interesting thread. I would never have the patience to do all of that, but I am impressed!! I read through the whole thread. I have heard of Einkorn flour - believe it was Dr. Davis that mentioned it, Pam. You are correct.
It really doesn't take much time once you get going, Jen, it just requires being present at the correct times or you end up with oversprouted wheat - which is fine for purposes besides yeast doughs, so it doesn't go to waste. Most of the time is just idle waiting. I'm good at that!
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:04 PM   #22
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With any luck, it will work for YOU as well as it works for DH. He's sure pleased to eat homemade bread again. The Ezekiel bread is very good, don't get me wrong, but it's gotten expensive and still has some soy in it, which I really try to avoid.

Being able to sprout/dry/grind the grains right here at home is so great!
This would be a blessing for us as well. I have been grinding grain at home for several years and making whole grain breads but when I was diagnosed as diabetic that kind of fell by the wayside. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this works for me and I can add a few things back to my diet that I've been missing. I picked up some screen in town this morning so I'm going to start the process this evening after supper. I'll let you know how it all turns out.


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The tortillas look great, thanks for the recipes, especially the red sauce. I've tried a number of different red sauce recipes and still haven't found one I really like.

Einkorn wheat is the type of grain people ate a long time ago, it's called an ancient grain and hasn't been extensively hybridized or selctively bred like modern wheat. Modern wheat is not GMO. Either Gary Taubes of Dr. Davis talked about it in one of their books and I've wanted to try it and it's now easier to find.
I used to drive a bus before I retired and there were several Spanish ladies that I worked with. If you ask 5 people for their red sauce recipe you'll get 5 different recipes. It seems everyone has their own family favorite. This is a combination of a couple of those recipes and the one we like the best.

The tortilla recipe is the same way, they mostly used lard in their recipes but I don't normally keep lard in the house so I just use shortening instead. I kind of split the difference and buy the cheap shortening that is made with part animal fat.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:04 PM   #23
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I'm glad I started reading this . Good thread. Now that I'm drooling all over my screen I have a question.

Where can I find Einkorn wheat ? I'm wondering if I could eat that.A lot that I'm allergic to is what manufacturerers have done to food.Thanks.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:02 AM   #24
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You can google einkorn and find a number of sellers but I saw it yesterday on the Tropical Traditions site while I was looking at their coconut oil. That isn't where I ordered mine from but if I buy more I will probably order from there next time.

They also carried it pre-ground but it isn't from sprouted grains.

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Old 02-22-2013, 08:36 AM   #25
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Thanks Pam.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:48 AM   #26
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I just looked on the Tropical Traditions site and when I tried to add the Eikorn berries to my cart I got a popup that said, "Sorry, this product is not available at this time" so will check back at a later time for it. I'd like to give it a try!
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:16 AM   #27
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If you go to Google and type in einkorn and select the second listing on that page to the right is a picture of the berries you can click on and it takes you to the ordering page. That is where I ordered mine from but I have to admit I haven't even looked to see if they have been shipped.

Off to check my email.


Just checked and since I just switched to Outlook almost all my deleted emails are gone, which I'm bad about deleting most everything. My credit card has been charged but I paid thru Paypal.

Last edited by PaminKY; 02-22-2013 at 10:21 AM..
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:34 AM   #28
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I checked them out yesterday too, Pam.

Right now I have 50 plus pounds of hard red winter wheat so I probably won't order the einkorn right away, but I plan to give it a try when that wheat is getting down towards the bottom of the bag! Thanks!!
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:47 PM   #29
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Very informative thread.
Charski, do you think this can be done with rice?
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:52 PM   #30
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It can be done with short-grain brown rice - I've bought that at Costco and successfully sprouted it.

I assume it would have to be a whole-grain rice, not polished like the regular brown or the white - they're no longer the full grain.

The rice takes a good deal longer to sprout though, about 5 days. BUT it's really good stuff - we dehydrate and vacuum- seal it, then use it like you would regular whole-grain brown rice, although I find it uses a bit more water/time to get it to the same nice texture as rice that has not been sprouted.

HTH!
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