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Old 02-03-2013, 02:33 PM   #1
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Wheat Protein Isolate 5000 changed

I noticed when I got my last order of WPI 5000 from Netrition that the bag only seemed half full but still weighed 16 ounces. I got this email from Sandra at Netrition after I had asked if the formula had been changed:
I apologize for the delayed response. We just heard back from Tova and this is what they had to say.


About a year ago the manufacture of the Wheat Protein Isolate 5000 did have a change. We were advised February 2nd 2012 and assured
everything remained the same with regards to chemically, functionality, usage, etc.
The only difference is it is less dusty. They made the density heavier similar to their other protein and starch products.
Attached is a copy of the updated label for the WPI 5000 after Tova reviewed the matter further.

I wasn't able to copy the new label but it said a serving is now 1T (9grams)
calories 33, fat 0, carb 0, fiber 0, protein 8g. Old label said a serving is 2T (9 grams) .
I use Kevin's flour mixes & this now completely has changed how my rolls & breads are turning out. Just wondered if anyone else has had to rework the mixes & what you did to adjust with the new WPI? Thanks for any help
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:44 AM   #2
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are you weighing or measuring it? if measuring, are you using only half what the recipe calls for? that should work. hopefully!
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:11 PM   #3
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Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:19 PM   #4
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I do measure by weighing so the amount was basically half of what his original mix had. The rolls came out with that weird spongy mouthfeel like when you add too much vital wheat gluten or the WPI 8000. I've only tried it in the yeast pita recipe (which I make into burger buns) so not sure if it will make a difference in the cake & cookie recipes of Kevin's. I'm thinking I might have to find a sub but have no idea of what since this is such a specialized ingredient.
I appreciate your posting ravenrose and wish it had worked.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:05 PM   #5
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Hmmmm,,,,,, Interesting. I wish I had a suggestion/answer. I have no idea at the moment.
I haven't been making yeast bread for quite a while now. And I have a BIG supply of the wPI 5000, so at the rate I'm using it, I'll have enough for years. (Course that could change)
Hope someone else has an answer.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:53 PM   #6
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Andy342, thanks for the alert. I too am using Kevinpa's flour mix and have been making buns with that. So far I still have some of the old formula WPI 5000 and was wondering what to do about this when I get the new stuff. It seems that cutting the amount of WPI 5000 in half should provide the help with rising, but then that eliminates an equal amount of volume from the flour mix recipe. Maybe that is what is causing the change in how things are turning out. Might the answer be to substitute an equal amount of something like wheat bran to fill up the missing volume?
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #7
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I have only used it in his biscuit recipe and since I have never purchased it before, I of course didn't know there was a difference. I probably bought mine about 2 months ago, and at least the biscuits are wonderful.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:58 PM   #8
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thanks Andy this probably explains why my bread has been heavy and spongy. should I decrease the amount used in the flour mix? maybe could sub something....like one of the resistant starches? I'm no food chemist so it would take some experimentation. Any other suggestions?
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:13 AM   #9
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LindaSL, thanks for the suggestion of using wheat bran. I'll pick some up this week when I go shopping and give it a try & post back with my results.
MSS726, Glad to hear it doesn't effect the biscuits, I had a feeling this might just be missing up the yeast bun/bread recipe.
jlp2009, good idea on the resistant starches too. I have both the corn & wheat so maybe try those before I can get the wheat bran. I think someone posted a "modern" version of Kevin's carbquick bread using the new WPI 5000 formula, but I use his carbalose cake & cookie formula so I haven't tried that one. Sorry, I can't remember where that version was posted maybe whoever posted it might see this thread & repost it here. Thanks for the suggestions! andy
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:51 AM   #10
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I I understand what was written in the first post, the WPI 5000 was made more dense, but should function exactly the same way as the old stuff, as long as you cut the amount in half. If it calls for 1/2 cup, use 1/4 cup of WPI 5000, and everything is supposed to come out the same.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:27 PM   #11
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Cut the amount by half if using volume measurements. Keep it the same if using weights
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:26 AM   #12
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Thanks everyone for this information!
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:14 PM   #13
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I ordered some of the new formula WPI 5000 and, before my old supply runs out, I decided to make up Kevinpa's Final Flour Mix with the new formula stuff to see what happened when I made buns from his pita bread recipe. I decided to make 2 1/2 times the recipe for one cup of the flour to start with, and used exactly half of the volumne of WPI 5000 called for in the original recipe. All else was the same. I figured I would get something less than 2 1/2 cups worth, since I was taking out some volume, but to my surprise, after shaking it up, I had exactly 2 1/2 cups of flour mix. Then I made the bun recipe. I did not have a bun using the old formula flour mix for comparison, but I can say that the buns using the new formula flour mix rose up just fine and tasted great with just some butter on them, and the texture was perfectly acceptable to me. I suppose some might describe the texture as a little spongey when cutting it, but I found nothing off-putting about it when eating it. All in all I find myself relieved that I can still use the mix with the new WPI 5000 and don't have to worry about how my buns will turn out.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:20 AM   #14
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I'm glad this worked out for you, for some reason the buns I made were on the spongy side. I replaced the missing 1/4 cup volume of WPI 5000 with 1/4 cup Lupin flour (30 grams) and they turned out better for me. What are you using in place of the not/sugar? I've been leaving it out since it's not available anymore and I'm wondering if that might be my problem, although I've left it out with the old WPI and it didn't seem to make any difference. Thanks, andy
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:26 PM   #15
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Andy, two things to report and also a suggestion. First, based on a post by Kevinpa about the discontinuation of not/sugar, I use xanthan gum in place of that ingredient. As it was used as a thickener, he suggested using 2 tsp xanthan gum for every tablespoon of not/sugar, so that's what I do in the mix. (Note: This ratio does not work for all of his recipes. It was WAY too much for the filling on his cinnamon rolls. LOL). I'm not a chemist so I don't know exactly what it's doing in this recipe, I just do it. Two, I found in our freezer a package of some buns I had made using the old flour mix, and we had them tonight just to do a comparison, and they were just the same with regard to both texture and taste. My suggestion with regard to the buns: How long are you letting them rise? I let mine rise considerably longer than what he said, so they get as big and fluffy as possible (I use this recipe to make hamburger and hot dog buns so I'm going for big). Probably 2 hours, sitting in the oven with just the light on. Maybe you could try that?
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:55 AM   #16
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Linda and Andy-would you guys care to share the recipes you are using to make the buns or rolls? thanks in advance
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:40 PM   #17
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Linda thanks for the xanthan info, I must have missed his post on that. Also maybe I'm not letting the buns rise enough, I only go about 45-50 minutes in a warm oven before baking. I've had failures in the past letting stuff rise too much then having them fall when baking, so I'm probably paranoid.
jbatchelor,
I use his final flour mix (which is actually in the cake & cookie sticky) it's:
1 cup LC Bread flour mix (14 carbs) (I double this for 2 cups to make 6 burger buns)

1/2 cup carbalose (60 grams for me by weight)
1/4 cup WPI5000 (30 grams for New WPI)
1 Tbs wheat protein isolate 8000
1.5 Tbs almond flour
1.5 Tbs Hi-Maize resistant corn starch 260
1.25 tsp not/Sugar (I'll use Linda's suggestion of xanthan gum)
I use kevin's pita & bun recipe but make 6 burger buns instead:

2 cups of the above LC mix
1/2 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
2 tsp instant yeast
3/4 cup warm water
2 tsp extra virgin olive oil ( I use rice bran oil just because it's what I have)
I just combine everything in electric mixing bowl & use dough hook to mix & knead for about 8 minutes. Then shape in 6 burger buns & place in or on oil sprayed pan ( I have a pan that's meant for burger buns). Let rise till double, for me was about 45-50 minutes, but will try Linda's suggestion to let rise longer) Bake in a pre-heated 400 degree oven for about 12-14 minutes ( for my gas oven).
Sorry, I don't know how to quote kevins recipes from the original threads so hope this makes sense. andy
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:24 PM   #18
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Andy, another thought: I actually had no luck at all mixing Kevinpa's doughs in a mixing bowl with a dough hook. Instead I am mixing in a bread machine and then kneading in the bread machine for 10 minutes. Then I taking the dough out and form buns and let rise, then bake on a sheet. Your knead time might be a factor in your results also. But if your results worked fine with the old WPI 5000, maybe not. . .
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:45 AM   #19
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In my notes, I have,

RWS = great rise before baking, but little oven rise
RCS = rises fast, good oven rise, but will fall if not careful

I use RCS for loaf bread, use a bread machine to mix, let sit 20 min, knead 20 min, rise in a warm oven for 50-60 min, turn oven on and bake

For buns and pizza crust I use RWS, same mixing and kneading, then let rise till double and bake

Last edited by drjlocarb; 04-10-2013 at 07:48 AM..
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:36 PM   #20
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I wasn't able to get back here for a couple of days, but appreciate your ideas. I don't have a bread machine so can't try that option, but I've used my mixer with good results for all the buns I've made before.
drjlo, interesting on the RCS & RWS. I switched to the RCS when kevin posted his "final" flour mix because that's what he used. Maybe go back to the RWS for the buns.
I'll just keep plugging away & thanks again for the ideas. andy
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:22 PM   #21
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andy, any updates on this?
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:58 AM   #22
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Hi, I actually switched to Kevin's nut free version of the mix. I bought a Zojirushi mini bread machine (makes a 1# loaf) and make the basic white bread recipe in their booklet just subbing Kevin's mix for the bread flour & it has come out great. I use the Quick Baking mode/light crust setting (less than 2 hours). I'm thinking what Kevin said about getting rid of the almond flour I'm getting a really good rise & lighter loaf, so maybe that has helped with the new WPI formula issue. Any way here's Kevin's nut free version with my changes:
Originally Posted by Kevinpa
Thank you Jude. Believe it or not I have wrestled with the nut flour issue the entire time I was developing this mix. Both from the point of nut allergies and also the point of interaction with yeast applications.
It really is a tradeoff when not looking at the nut allergies issue.
Allergies are what that are and give us no choice. But from a completely functional point of view, no nut flour will give you a slightly better rise in yeast applications but you will loose overall taste at the same time.

Anyway thank you for reminding me to post this tested nut allergies version of this mix, which I had meant to do before but forgot.

9 T carbquick or carbalose( used carblose)
4 T + 2 tsp wheat protein isolate 5000(I used 2T + 1t new WPI formula)
1 T + 1/2 tsp wheat protein isolate 8000
1 T + 1/2 tsp resistant wheat starch (I used resistant corn starch)
1 tsp not/sugar( I used 1/2t glucomannan + 1/2 t Dixie Diner Thickit up)
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