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Old 02-26-2012, 07:42 AM   #31
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Hi Bill ~ Thanks so much for the pm on this. I have no updates or changes to suggest right now. I absolutely love the way it looks, and it is such a great idea. There are always post and questions regarding coversions. Thanks Bill!
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:08 AM   #32
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Hi bill, I find the table somewhat confusing. May be just my mind. The second column, is that the amount needed to replace 1 cup of sugar?

If so there are a few things to add... E(70%),X(90%) polyd(10%), and Isomalt are only a fraction of the sweetness of sugar, and therefore would not work as a straight sub for sugar in a recipe. The bulk of the sweeteners also count for something in some of the baked goods...And some of the concentrates will not give enough bulk in some recipes(Splenda granular=2T bulk). Also the properties of sugar are lost in the conversions. Poly-d, Isomalt, glucomannan, or xanthan gum come to mind here.

ie, If you use 1 cup of E to replace a cup of sugar in a recipe, you will need to add about 1/3 cup worth of a concentrate to make up for the lack of sweetening power of the E. OR...If you use 1 cup of granular Splenda, you only have 2 T of bulk instead of 16 T of bulk and if sugar is the bulk of that recipe....



And, when you combine several different sweeteners, the net sweetness is increased so that the total combined sweet taste is increased. This is where you get the combo thing that Charski is talking about.

Last edited by drjlocarb; 02-26-2012 at 08:09 AM..
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:11 AM   #33
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I use Fiberfit as my liquid sweetener.

2T = 1 cup of sugar... If I don't need the bulk.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:59 AM   #34
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Thanx metqa

Comments interspersed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by metqa View Post
something I've done is to find the actual caloric value of a sugar sub and then calculate backwards to find the actual carb count. I figure if its not diegested as energy then it's not a carb. In that way Erythritol and Xylitol, which have lower calories, but not zero calories, still have some carbs. liquid Surcrolose such as Ez-Sweets has No calories,no energy and therefore no carbs.

ETA: I try to find the actual calories from a source like Wiki if the package gives a neat little rounded number like 0, 5 or 10, packages lie conveniently. if a product has 2 calories per gram, that can be significant if used in quantity, but the package will say zero and confuse the issue...

Exactly the type info for which I was fishing. I see the same thing and we can accommodate, one way or the other. Can you take on the job of filling in some of the blanks for this type info? For most items I intend to have the values for a cup and when it is commonly used a packet.

Quote:
I made a blend of sweeteners , a combo of powder splenda, Xylitol, Erythritol and Diabetisweet, and the combination of them is NOT a zero calorie zero carb sweetener, but many fewer calories and many fewer carbs than sugar, and 11T equals a cup of sugar in sweetness instead of 16T so I use less of it for the same taste effect. I don't have my numbers now but I can post them next week.
I'm going to accelerate the issue of the first revision -- I have some significant changes the format and content base, mostly, on the comments received. The new chart has some major categories and then sub ones including "Combinations" (the commercially available sweeteners), "Mixes" which is exactly what you have above, Stevia products ++.

Quote:
subtracting sugar alcohols can be iffy, because they can have less of an effect while still having calories that have *some effect, and some people digest all of it into energy so it varies from person to person. I think having the data and letting people decide the absorption ratio personally might be more forgiving.
There are some other comments re. this, so we will work something out. It's kind of a trade-off of a large busy chart and a convenient and concise one. Let's just try to find the optimum.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:02 PM   #35
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Thanx Auntie Em

Thanx Auntie Em
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Em View Post
Bill, nice job! In case this is of use, there is much info on sweeteners at this site. Here is one page. There are many pages of info there.

Artificial Sweetener List
Had not found that one -- look like it can provide some good info. Thanks for the reply.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:16 PM   #36
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Thanx drjlocarb

Thanx drjlocarb,
Quote:
Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
Hi bill, I find the table somewhat confusing. May be just my mind. The second column, is that the amount needed to replace 1 cup of sugar?

If so there are a few things to add... E(70%),X(90%) polyd(10%), and Isomalt are only a fraction of the sweetness of sugar, and therefore would not work as a straight sub for sugar in a recipe. The bulk of the sweeteners also count for something in some of the baked goods...And some of the concentrates will not give enough bulk in some recipes(Splenda granular=2T bulk). Also the properties of sugar are lost in the conversions. Poly-d, Isomalt, glucomannan, or xanthan gum come to mind here.

ie, If you use 1 cup of E to replace a cup of sugar in a recipe, you will need to add about 1/3 cup worth of a concentrate to make up for the lack of sweetening power of the E. OR...If you use 1 cup of granular Splenda, you only have 2 T of bulk instead of 16 T of bulk and if sugar is the bulk of that recipe....
And, when you combine several different sweeteners, the net sweetness is increased so that the total combined sweet taste is increased. This is where you get the combo thing that Charski is talking about.[/QUOTE]


Yes, that is exactly the intent -- I had some errors, and, now, open questions re. the SA's but have since moded the table is include the SA's as a major category and the 6 or 8 type as subs. In the remarks or notes column, hopefully we can add a few comments similar to the ones there for honey (hopefully not too many like that one) and maple syrup, but will have to limit so that it does not get too busy.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:20 PM   #37
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Thanx drjlocarb

Thanx drjlocarb
Quote:
Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
I use Fiberfit as my liquid sweetener.

2T = 1 cup of sugar... If I don't need the bulk.
I've added it to the draft -- will have to check which category and info for it. You may furnish data if you will.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:15 PM   #38
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Fiberfit 4 cal, 1gcarb, 1gfiber, net 0 carbs/1 T. It is a sucralose sweetened, liquid, soluable fiber. 2 T = 1c. sugar.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:09 AM   #39
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Oh boy, this is great, thank you for putting in all that work. Sometimes I look at my sweeteners wondering which one and how much? The labels on the packaging do not help at all. I have bits and pieces of conversions from "conversations" on here but nothing all put together like this. Wow thanks!
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:14 AM   #40
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Quote:
This blend of sweeteners is equivalent in taste to one cup of sugar but is less than a cup in volume.

One cup equivalent of Sugar as Granular Sweetener
1/3 cup Granular Splenda brand sweetener ( or the store brand knock off)
2T Xylitol
2T Erythritol
2T Diabetisweet ( Ace K and Isomalt blend)
-for half a cup use half the volume, for 1/4c use 1/4 the volume, etc
I haven't done any synergy/bulk math on this as i got it from a friend initially and just trusted it. I don't know the mass, but i could find it out. I somehow figured the volume before and came up with using 11T to equal 16T of sugar. and Sorry I don't have the calories on hand but I'll get that to you, again, later.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:06 PM   #41
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Sugar to Sweetener Conversions - Release 01:

Sugar to Sweetener Conversions - Release 01:

February 27, 2012 (3:05 pm)

First, I would like to express my appreciation for the inputs many of you have made in the development of the subject chart. It is quite apparent that you are group of dedicated and most cooperative people, most of which are obvious very serious and experienced cooks. The later certainly does not include me, but sometime someone comes along with a new look and maybe some other ideas of some old stuff – that seems to be where I am.

The first revision of the subject chart is posted below:

Hopefully, I have incorporated the comments you have provided – if not, please remind me. I believe the chart has arrived at a point where it may be, format/presentation wise, near maturity. I still have a couple ideas, but they should not affect the developments thus far. It appears to be near max width for comfortable viewing, printing, but can grow vertically. It would be good to try to keep it to a single page to be the most useful.

Comments to the format, etc are still encouraged, but I would now like to begin concentrating on its organization and details. Anyone, who can ID another commonly used substitute, please provide and, if you know, please give me the data source for that item.. There are a number of missing entries where data is needed. I would ask that for any data input, please also identify the data source, desirably a URL.

Some values in the chart are still likely inaccurate but its release is, presently, considered more important than those corrections. I will continue to recheck though many of you can help in pointing out the errors.

I will begin to use codes to ID the data maturity/confidence as follows:
"Italic text" are values of questionable accuracy (such as values from a general source or those derived from small sample serving size on an item label.
"Normal text" are values with fairly good confidence such as those from “http://nutritiondata.self.com/” or a single manufacturer’s nutrition label.
"Bold text" are values derived from two or more manufacturer’s labels or a single and another reliable source which are close of similar.
We may never get all the values to Bold, but hopefully none will end up less than the “Normal.” Notes will, likely, seldom ever be bold unless they are most important. Some of the “normal” text values are really still uncertain, but I have not reviewed all IAW the above coding. You will see a “1" at the beginning of each row where a change has been made in this release.

Unless you want to make your inputs public, then PM’s to me would be best – there is no need for the thread to grow for just the details. Unless I have questions, it may be a few days before I repost or respond to your comments/inputs but hope to get to all of them

Again, many thanks to each of you and especially you who "have held my hands" through this effort.

Bill



Last edited by bill_co; 02-27-2012 at 01:21 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:59 PM   #42
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Thanks metqa

Quote:
Originally Posted by metqa View Post
I haven't done any synergy/bulk math on this as i got it from a friend initially and just trusted it. I don't know the mass, but i could find it out. I somehow figured the volume before and came up with using 11T to equal 16T of sugar. and Sorry I don't have the calories on hand but I'll get that to you, again, later.
Thanks, this is good info which we can use. I included your mix in the table so you can see the data needs for it. I haven't included calories in the chart but am interested, so include that also. The primary needs for the current format are weight, volume and carbs. I anxious to get the info complete as feasible.

Bill

PS -- You were also on the distribution of a "form" type PM that I just sent out to ~25 names who had shown and interest or provided comments/data. I did not discriminate.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:56 PM   #43
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Fiberfit is still not on the table. It is a "sucralose" product.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:09 PM   #44
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Bill, Wow great work!!! Thanks for sharing!

Just a note, or question. It appears if I am reading your chart correctly (and maybe I'm looking at it wrong) that you are under the assumption that Splenda Brown is basically the same as Splenda Granular. I hope you are aware that both Splenda Brown & white baking blends are 1/2 real sugar! (This does not include Spelnda Granular.) Maybe you are, and I'm just not sure how to read your chart.
I am in fact confused by the chart.
Splenda Granular 1 cup = 1 cup sugar. It has 24 carbs per cup, and they are countable carbs, they do not net out or cancel out. I am not reading your chart that way. It appears to me that you are saying 1 cup = 1/2 cup sugar (or vise versa, I'm confused here). It appears you think there are 0 carbs! Again there are 24 g carbs in 1 cup!
It has been a long time since I looked at a bag of baking blend, and the carb count. I may have misunderstood, as I look again. Are you saying 97 net carbs per 1/2 cup or 1 cup of Splenda baking blend? (At first I thought you had netted it out, but now I see you did not. But again 1 cup of it measures like 1 cup sugar, not 1/2 cup.

Am I misreading something here?
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:52 PM   #45
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Confusion

Billie (I think that is better than your CW handle)

I've taken a look at your post a couple times and cannot determine exactly how to answer. So, rather than getting into the detailed questions/confusion, I would ask that you not just try to read the table, but read (or re-read) the narrative before the table, especially with the following thoughts:
1. The primary purpose of this release is to show the chart format, presentation, and type content
2. That the data in the chart is incomplete, probably inaccurate, giving the "codes" to be used for the data maturity (Probably, most all the codes should now be in italic.) None of them are bold.
3. Look at the column headings and see the type info we are trying to include (the carb info is for 100 grams, not cups)
4. Help in providing corrections, inputs, suggestions -- I know you can do this and would be most interested in your info.
5. Provide specific info with reference source info. For example, I do not locate the specific properties of the various Splenda products, although my search has been very limited.

Your help/input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanx,
Bill
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:33 PM   #46
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Bill,

This is great Thank you for all the work you have done.

Hmmm, I am wondering how/where the Torani/Divinci syrups would fit in here?

Di

Last edited by diwitch; 02-29-2012 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:38 PM   #47
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I have 13t. equals a cup of sweetness for the DaVincis.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:16 PM   #48
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From netrition.com:
Quote:
Splenda Granular: Can be used virtually anywhere sugar is used, and measures cup for cup when used in cooking, baking, and beverages. The 9.7 oz bag contains the sweetness equivalency of 5 lbs of sugar.
Lots of info at splenda.com.

Could you add Glycerol/Glycerin to your next update? It is anywhere from 55% to 75% as sweet as sucrose depending on concentration.
Glycerol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.aciscience.org/docs/Glyce...n_overview.pdf
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:37 PM   #49
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Re: Glycerol/Glycerine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpmaker View Post
From netrition.com:

Lots of info at splenda.com.

Could you add Glycerol/Glycerin to your next update? It is anywhere from 55% to 75% as sweet as sucrose depending on concentration.
Glycerol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.aciscience.org/docs/Glyce...n_overview.pdf
Be glad to take a look if you will give me the values for the table - sweetener equivalency is just one of the table attributes. I only see a bunch of technical papers when doing Google search.

Thanks,
Bill
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:48 PM   #50
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As soon as this gets polished up and purr-fect, I will enshrine it on my refrigerator! Thank you so much for caring enough to work on this!

My input is regarding "Sweetzfree" the liquid sucralose. It's not manufactured any longer. The product most of us use, I believe, is EZ-Sweetz which comes in 2 concentrations. The 2 oz size is the one I'm familar with and I always measure by drops as in:

1 drop = 1 teaspoon.

Hope this is useful and thanks again.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:17 PM   #51
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Hey again, Sorry It took me forever to find this.

Quote:
Notes about Sugar Blend

Sugar Blend - one cup( 16T) sugar equivalent - 11T actual volume
1/3 cup Granular Splenda 8 carb , 32 kcal
2T Diabetisweet white 13.35 carb, 53 kcal
2T Erythritol crystals 16.2 carbs, 64.8 kcal
2T Xylitol crystals 14.4 carbs, 57.6 kcal

Sugar Blend "1 cup" - 11T- Total Carbs - 52g, 208 Kcal
(Real Sugar 1 cup----16T- Total Carbs - 180g, 720 Calories)
It weighs 82g for this amount. So 82g equals 11T equals sweetness of 1 cup of sugar.

I suppose it could be extrapolated for counts per 100g... Let's see...

Per 100g of this sugar blend:
Calories = 253.66
Carbs=63.42
and 100g would be 13.5T

ETA: BTW, this is not Metqa's sugar blend, I believe I got it from KevinPa, I just use it pretty much for everything I bake that needs a regular cup of sugar, unless it asks for a specific single sweetener.
I don't have many recipes that rely on the mass of sugar so it work just fine since it has mass from the crystals ( Xylitol, Erythritol, Isomalt) and sweetness from the super sweets (sucralose, Ace K).
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:07 AM   #52
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This is a wonderful resource! Thank you for compiling the information.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:15 AM   #53
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This thread is great. Thanks for this Bill!! Thanks for all the input everyone!
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:46 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
I have 13t. equals a cup of sweetness for the DaVincis.
Following are two quotes from messages I sent to Di Vinci asking for the equivalent sweetness of their syrups:

I appreciate you taking the time to contact DaVinci Gourmet. There are 236 g of syrup in 1 cup of syrup. The only volume of sweetness we have calculated is 1 pump of our sweetener equals 1 packet of sweetener.

There is 1/4 oz in a pump of syrup. 100 pumps per bottle. Our syrups are designed for barista's in coffee shops. I pumps would simply replace 1 packet of sweetener that would normally be placed out for customers.

Haven't run the conversions, but we now have the data.
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:52 AM   #55
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Most packets are equal to 2 teaspoons of sugar. If 1/4 oz = 2 t., then 6 oz of DaVincis would equal 1 cup of sugar. That would be 12T, or 3/4c of DaVinci syrup would equal 1 cup of sweetness.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:16 AM   #56
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Di Vinci

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Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
Most packets are equal to 2 teaspoons of sugar. If 1/4 oz = 2 t., then 6 oz of DaVincis would equal 1 cup of sugar. That would be 12T, or 3/4c of DaVinci syrup would equal 1 cup of sweetness.
Many thanks drojocarb, that sounds much more reasonable than the 13 we had before. The 13 must have changed from t to T.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:08 AM   #57
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Y'know I never thought about the Davinici ratio. That's gonna come in handy. I usually just taste it till it's sweet enough.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:48 AM   #58
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Thanks for including me in this message...been away for awhile...but back to stay, I hope.

Have you finished editting this? It would be helpful to all newcomers here...especially me.
You are doing a great job from what I can understand.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:49 AM   #59
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It's a great chart but I would love to see Sweet n' Low or saccharin added to, liquid, packets and powder plus Brown Sugar Twin. I still use it and just recently found an older cookbook that has a lot of recipes calling for it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:38 PM   #60
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possible error on chart

is coconut crystals the same thing as palm sugar?
coconut crystals says total carb = 70 less fiber of 70 = 70 net carb
shouldn't that be 0 net carb after the fiber is subtracted?
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