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Old 12-31-2011, 01:24 PM   #1
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vital wheat gluten vs wheat protein isolate

I have VWG and WPI 5000 and 8000. the WPI's are 85-90% protein where the VWG is 70-75%. Are the products essentially different in some other way? Like is the WPI made up of some protein elements apart from gluten?
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Old 12-31-2011, 03:01 PM   #2
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I will tell you what I know which is just a beginner's knowledge. Crazy in Wy has been helpful for me in understanding all this.

WPI 8000 can be used as a substitute for vital wheat gluten but wPI 5000 cannot be subbed for Vital wheat gluten. I have been using the WPI 8000 in Jennifer Eloff's Splendid Low Carb mix instead of the vital wheat gluten it calls for and every recipe has come out great. I am sure that others can help more.
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Old 12-31-2011, 03:57 PM   #3
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I was never able to enjoy anything I made with any of the "isolates". The same for Carbquick and Carbalose. For me there's just a strange and unpleasant taste but I know others who don't even know of what I speak. I have no problem with Vital Wheat Gluten. I make Jennifer Eloff's Whole Wheat Bread in my bread machine weekly and friends and family even enjoy it but I was never able to get anyone to eat anything made with the isolates. Just my 2 cents worth! I spent big bucks trying Kevin's recipes and ended up throwing every one out as well as mega bucks worth of ingredients. I do believe it's a very individual thing just like liquorice. Some love it and some hate it - just a difference in taste buds.
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:11 PM   #4
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dinafoot, the WPI 5000 and WPI 8000 are very different protein products. But as TBipp said, the 8000 & he VWG are very similar, but the 8000 has more protein & less carbs than the VWG. VWG is easier to find locally, but if you are going o have to order anyway (usually can't find the 5000 locally as wit a lot of the other low cab products), I would order & use the 8000 rather than the VWG.
You can click on the blue word in this thread to see a description of each product. Hopefully this will give you at least a little idea of what the products do, and the differences in them. If I can find either my notes, or the thread, I'll post what either Kevin or Scott told us about the differences & uses of these products. (I've forgotten right now which one posted that for us.)
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:26 PM   #5
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I know I have seen (and thought I had saved, but couldn't find) more on this, but haven't found it yet. So he is what I have found so far.

The WPI 5000 is definitely better for breads as it creates sticky doughs that rise better. The WPI 8000 creates chewiness/structure in baked goods. The two definitely can not be subbed for each other, so if you have a recipe that uses the 5000 that you want to make, get the 5000.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ml#post7218281 post # 3
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:02 AM   #6
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I am one of those who cannot sense any off taste from the WPI's or Carbablose. (yippee!).
Kevin used some resistant starches also in some of his recipes. (res. corn and
res. wheat) Does anyone understand how these products work? I have bought
and used them with no issues, however, I don't know how to use them in any
other recipes.
This stuff is too expensive to experiement too much with (or maybe I am just a chicken!).
TIA
JP
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:06 AM   #7
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I simply haven't done enough experimenting with them to comment. I obtained them in response to some of KevinPa's yeast bread recipes. But I store them in my freezer and only use them when one is called for in a recipe. And I never sub for them because I don't want to chance a recipe failure with such expensive ingredients.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post
I was never able to enjoy anything I made with any of the "isolates". The same for Carbquick and Carbalose. For me there's just a strange and unpleasant taste but I know others who don't even know of what I speak. I have no problem with Vital Wheat Gluten. I make Jennifer Eloff's Whole Wheat Bread in my bread machine weekly and friends and family even enjoy it but I was never able to get anyone to eat anything made with the isolates. Just my 2 cents worth! I spent big bucks trying Kevin's recipes and ended up throwing every one out as well as mega bucks worth of ingredients. I do believe it's a very individual thing just like liquorice. Some love it and some hate it - just a difference in taste buds.
Totally agree Grace. You summed up my experience perfectly as well.
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:04 PM   #9
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Thanks for all of the info, everyone! I just googled around a little and found a 2008 LCF post on this that helps, too. It was an email that kevinpa wrote to someone answering this very question. It is post #2

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...-isolates.html

I make lots of low carb bread and have lately been using kevinpa's last and favorite flour blend, which uses both WPI's in it. He says that WPI 8000 can be substituted for gluten flour, but WPI 5000 cannot. I'm out of vital wheat gluten, so I subbed WPI for it last time and the bread came out fine...
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:12 AM   #10
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That is the recipe that I use also and the bread turns out nice every time.
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:27 AM   #11
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heh, I avoided that recipe for years, because several years ago I made every one of kevinpa's bread recipes using carbalose and had to throw out batch after batch of the nasty-tasting stuff. Then recently I decided to give Carbalose another try and lo and behold, it no longer has that awful burnt-rubber taste! Did they re-do their formula or something? Not brave enough to give Carbquik another go quite yet, though...
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dianafoot View Post
Thanks for all of the info, everyone! I just googled around a little and found a 2008 LCF post on this that helps, too. It was an email that kevinpa wrote to someone answering this very question. It is post #2

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...-isolates.html

I make lots of low carb bread and have lately been using kevinpa's last and favorite flour blend, which uses both WPI's in it. He says that WPI 8000 can be substituted for gluten flour, but WPI 5000 cannot. I'm out of vital wheat gluten, so I subbed WPI for it last time and the bread came out fine...
Hi Diana,

Thanks for your post. Do you use a bread machine?

Teresa
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:36 AM   #13
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Hi Teresa,
Yes, I do use a bread machine for kneading only. Since I want my low carb breads to rise only once, I throw all ingredients into the machine and let it mix and knead. Then I take out the dough and form it into loaves, rolls, etc. and let it rise in a warm oven and bake it there. I am sooooo lazy!
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:42 AM   #14
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Goodness, that is not lazy. That is inspired!

I think I have the ingredients and will pull my bread maker out today as I am off work. One last question, do you sub Kevinpa's mix into your own bread recipes or do you follow one of Kevin's recipes?
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:21 AM   #15
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Thanks for the link to Kevin's discussion, Diana. I printed that info out and will tape it to my canisters for these items (else I won't remember all that in the future LOL)
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:25 AM   #16
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The one I use is in this thread.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...periments.html
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:14 AM   #17
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i use his flour mix and bread recipe from Kevins LC Cake or Cookie Flour mix They are in posts 136 and 144 respectively.

I just made a sourdough loaf yesterday, using that recipe, but added 1 cup well-fermented sourdough starter and adjusted the liquid. don't know how many carbs I added doing that, but have gotten about 25 slices from that loaf and it is fabulous!!
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:45 AM   #18
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The last 2 loaves that I made last week were: 2 1/2 c. Kevin's last flour mix, (I ran out or I would have used 3 cups), 1/2 c. oat bran (since I ran out of Kevin's mix and didn't have any almond meal), 1 1/2 tsp. salt, 1c. warm water, 2 tbsp. oil (I used safflower and olive, again, since that is what I have on hand), 2 eggs, 1 tbsp. real sugar, 2 tbsp. sweetener mix, 1 pkt. rapid rise yeast.
I put the water, eggs, oil, sweeteners and salt in the pan, then added the flour mix and bran, then the yeast. I use the 1 lb. loaf setting. The loaves were tall and fluffy, slightly
dense, which is how I like homemade bread...dense.
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Old 01-03-2012, 08:15 AM   #19
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just read an interesting article about the differences between yeasts. The reason you shouldn't "proof" rapid rise yeast is because you may cause it to grow too fast and wear itself out before having a chance to raise the bread. I didn't know that! I didn't know there were so many different strains of yeast, either, just thought they did something different to the same basic yeast organisms to create rapid rise, bread machine yeast, etc. Fascinating...
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:01 PM   #20
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is there a difference between rapid rise yeast and bread machine yeast? Or is bread machine just regular yeast? Thanks!!
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlp2009 View Post
is there a difference between rapid rise yeast and bread machine yeast? Or is bread machine just regular yeast? Thanks!!
Rapid rise IS the same as bread machine yeast.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:14 AM   #22
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Thanks DrJ!!
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