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-   -   Low Carb Baking/Cooking Ingredients Info (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/low-carb-recipe-help-suggestions/715320-low-carb-baking-cooking-ingredients-info.html)

norsgoebel 03-27-2011 04:08 PM

Low Carb Baking/Cooking Ingredients Info
 
My husband and I are fairly new to low carb living and I have recently been very interested in converting many of my favorite recipes and trying a lot of the recipes here on low carb friends. In reading the recipes I am coming across many ingredients that I really have no idea what part they play in the recipe. I have been a pastry chef and worked in kitchens for 30 years so I know how and what will happen to a recipe if I substitute brown sugar for white or add an extra egg, but for low carb cooking I have no idea what a wheat protein isolate 5000 will do over a wheat protein isolate 8000 and many other ingredients I see listed in recipes. If I knew the properties and how they react with other ingredients it would be much simpler converting recipes. Is there as guide book or website out there that would give me a clue as to how to use all these new ingredients? Thanks for any help!
Barbi

Dottie 03-27-2011 04:18 PM

A lot of these products give bulk and texture to baked goods in the absence of wheat flours.

Charski 03-27-2011 04:59 PM

Hi Barbi! Welcome aboard!

As far as I know there isn't one source for the info you seek. There ARE "sticky" threads at the top of this forum, and there are lots of other threads, that deal with the ingredients you list.

I am a lifelong baker, not professionally, and I've found the best things in my LC arsenal are blanched almond flour, a variety of sweeteners (because several together are better than any one by itself) and some of the gums - guar gum, xanthan gum, or fairly new on the scene, glucomannan powder. These help keep baked goods moist.

I'd HIGHLY recommend Jennifer Eloff's cookbooks if you like baking - you can Google her name and go to her blog to purchase. She has so many great recipes!

There are also a lot of creative cooks on this website, and mastering the search feature may help you find what you are looking for.

There isn't one good answer to "substitute THIS for a cup of flour" or substitute THAT for a cup of sugar" so join in with us as we continue to explore the LC way of life and how to convert our favorite recipes to LC!

From Danish to crepes, cupcakes to brownies, tortillas, etc. - we've pretty much "been there, done that" - and look forward to YOUR additions to the LC repertoire!

drjlocarb 03-27-2011 05:17 PM

Hi Barbi and welcome.

As far as I know this IS the website with the info you are looking for.

As far as the 5000 /8000 info, that would be in the sticky up top of Kevinpa's.
These will get you started and help you understand how things are used and developed, and the mistakes that were made.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/me...ite-bread-thre

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/me...nt.htmlad.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/me...flour-mix.html

ravenrose 03-27-2011 09:06 PM

no, unfortunately. this is all very hit and miss. there are a number of people who bake pretty successfully, but it's very hard. I am not convinced ANYONE is really optimizing the use of these things.

one reason is our varied tolerance for carbs. many of these recipes will have something like 7 grams net carbs per serving and make more than a dozen servings. that is WAY too much for many of us to eat even one serving and having that much of something around the house is an attractive nuisance too. most of us aren't good at eating one very modest slice of something each day and never going back for "just a sliver more."

I need to make things VERY low carb, so the things I choose will be different from the one who did the 84 grams of carbs total recipe, you see?

We have different standards and different ideas of what tastes good, and I'm afraid you will probably want to do your own experimenting after reading a bunch of recipes. I hope with your experience you can contribute to our understanding of these things. please come back and share your results!!!!

these things are useful:

I AM NOT LOOKING AT THE NETRITION LINKS GENERATED AUTOMATICALLY FOR EVERYTHING HERE. THE BRANDS THAT COME UP FROM THE LINKS ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE BEST ONES. LOOK ON THE SITE FOR THE OTHER BRANDS AS WELL.

you will find many/most people use some portion of whey protein isolate, either unflavored or something like vanilla which is sweetened, in baked goods, for example. this is rarely because someone is gaga over the taste/texture it adds, and more about it being zero carb. (the auto link this site generates goes to NOW brand, not necessarily the best. I use Isopure Zero Carb unflavored and have tried a variety of flavored, preferring Graham Cracker flavor VPX which adds a little "baked goods" flavor to things.)

flax meal is also nearly zero carb. some people prefer the golden flax. it will tend to give you a bit grainier product than a traditional white flour, but the grain is MUCH finer in combination with cocoa powder, for some reason. also, be sure to add some gum* if you want a smoother product. I like Bob's Red Mill.

* gums include guar gum, xanthan gum, and glucommanan powder. they are more or less interchangeable. they absorb water like MAD. adding a half teaspoon per cup of flour substitute is about all you should try, half that for xanthan. these are used for thickening sauces, soups, and gravies as well, but their contribution to a baking mixture is a bit different. you will want to have at least one of these for other purposes as well as baking.

almond meal produces a VERY dry crumb, despite being high in fat, even when you add a good deal of additional fat. it is usually better mixed with something else, though there are some successful cake recipes using mostly almond meal.

you need A LOT MORE EGGS in any sort of low carb baking than you would use with flour. eggs make up a lot of the deficiencies of the flour substitutes. you will probably think recipes call for too many eggs, but you will find they are necessary.

wheat protein isolate 5000 and 8000. I have used these but I can't really comment on either their function or difference very coherently. the 8000 is zero carb so there's another thing to "thin out" carbs in something else.

the same company makes carbalose and carbquick. these are more problematic. though they seem the first choice for low carb baking, you will see they really aren't used much here. carbalose has a LOT of carbs, and carbquick is a VERY ODD product, leaving a flavor most don't like. It's also strangely greasy. I don't really recommend these, though it's interesting to try them and if you are determined to do this right, you should do so. who knows, a teaspoon of carbalose might be just what a recipe needs!

oat fiber is another thing popular more for its bulk with NO carbs than because it contributes some wonderful flavor or something. a good ingredient to thin out the carbs in other things.

many people also use some coconut flour, but it's pretty carby in my opinion. if you try it, it sucks up water like mad, so use extra liquid.

KevinPA used both resistant corn starch and resistant wheat starch. The resistant corn starch has 3 grams net per tablespoon, and I wouldn't suggest that. the wheat is 1 gram per tablespoon, which is not bad in very small quantities.

butter works well, but coconut oil is very healthy too and nice for variety.

DaVinci and Torani sugar free syrups, mostly intended for flavored coffee drinks, are a great source of no carb flavor and sucralose sweetener.

EZSweetZ liquid sucralose is zero carb. no sense in adding carbs to your desserts from powdered sweeteners, when it is just coming from the fillers used to make them powders!

LorAnn makes some good flavorings too, including their Bakery Emulsion line designed for baking. I suggest both their Buttery Sweet Dough and Princess Cake and Cookie flavors for an ineffable bakery aroma to things.

You can use sucralose/Splenda, or for the strong, Stevia, to sweeten many things, but for recipes where the sugar provides texture and bulk as well, such as frosting, you will need powdered erythritol. the granular seems more like sugar, but it doesn't dissolve!!!! don't do it! LOL sometimes you will want that graininess, so get some granular too maybe, but it's not the workhorse the powdered form is. this sugar alcohol is truly zero carb and doesn't cause diarrhea like most of the others. erythritol does cause a cooling effect when it dissolves in your saliva, which some people don't like. personally I think it's BETTER than sugar that way, just lovely.

mostly you won't need milk. it's pretty much unnecessary to use something like the almond or coconut milks sold in cartons. they are mostly water. just use water! they perform a function when people need something opaque white to drink, but in baking they really contribute almost nothing.

you will find anything that's traditionally leavened with baking powder is fairly easy to replicate, while yeast leavened breads are much harder to do well for very low carbs. adding sweetness, flavorings, chocolate, nuts, frosting, glazes, etc., covers a multitude of sins and I can throw together many cake sorts of recipes without looking at precise measurements and have them work well. but breads are much more exacting.

the microwave actually works very well for most baking powder leavened low carb baking.

good luck and please please report back!

ravenrose 03-27-2011 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drjlocarb (Post 14508658)
As far as the 5000 /8000 info, that would be in the sticky up top of Kevinpa's.

could you link to this please? I tried looking in the links provided and also looked for something "above" the Kevin thread but I'm being dumb and not finding anything. thanks!

drjlocarb 03-28-2011 06:29 AM

Hi Ravenrose, The info is in the discussions in the threads I linked.

I will look later for specifics, but one is for the "rise" and one is for the "stretchiness".

I think 5000 adds the chewy, stretchy.

And 8000 subs for vwg.

norsgoebel 03-28-2011 06:39 AM

Thank you, thank you for all the great info! This is a great start for me, I've started to experiment some but since I didn't have any clear guidance I just felt that I was wasting time and money. I'm keeping notes while I experiment so that will help.
Essentially I would like to try a lc recipe and then know that if I wanted to make a change, say make it more crisp or chewy or dry or moist, I would have a clue about how to do that. There are so many ingredients listed in some of these recipes that are unknown to me, it's hard to know how to get the results I want.
I do know that I will also have to change my standards of what a successful baked good is, I'm pretty sure I will never reproduce an exact replica of my favorite high carb pastries but hopefully I can come close and have a once in awhile yummy treat!
Thanks again for taking the time to answer!
Barbi

Pam 03-28-2011 08:01 AM

:welcome::welcome: Barbi

Look at LindaSue's website. She has loads of recipes.

Linda's Low Carb Menus & Recipes - Home

Charski 03-28-2011 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norsgoebel (Post 14509714)
Thank you, thank you for all the great info! This is a great start for me, I've started to experiment some but since I didn't have any clear guidance I just felt that I was wasting time and money. I'm keeping notes while I experiment so that will help.
Essentially I would like to try a lc recipe and then know that if I wanted to make a change, say make it more crisp or chewy or dry or moist, I would have a clue about how to do that. There are so many ingredients listed in some of these recipes that are unknown to me, it's hard to know how to get the results I want.
I do know that I will also have to change my standards of what a successful baked good is, I'm pretty sure I will never reproduce an exact replica of my favorite high carb pastries but hopefully I can come close and have a once in awhile yummy treat!
Thanks again for taking the time to answer!
Barbi

Barbi, honestly, we like some of the LC baked goodies MORE than their high-carb counterparts! I LOVE the cinnamon rolls and my adaptation, Cherry Danish; LOVE the black bean brownies/cake; LOVE The Chicken Lady's carrot cake - and many more. I serve these things to non-LC folks and they all think they're great too.

It's fun to experiment but hard to screw stuff up and have to throw it away - all these expensive ingredients! So try a few of the recipes as posted and see what you think. The ones that have several pages and tweaks are probably good places to start! If you need links to any of the above ideas, let me know!

CreekWatcher 03-28-2011 08:43 AM

As far as the WPI 5000 vs. 8000, my understanding is that the 8000 helps both rise and "structure" in yeast bread, the latter including something like chewiness in the crust of bread. The 5000 overwhelming helps rise, giving bread flexibility and "sproing." The 8000 is apparently just vital wheat gluten with most of the carbs removed, and vital gluten can be subbed for 8000. Also, the 8000 tastes good in reasonable proportions, and I don't think the 5000 tastes good in any amount--but the 5000 is a godsend for making a satisfactory rise in carbalose-based yeast bread possible.

At about 2g carb for a one ounce slice of bread, I would define Kevin's carbalose-based yeast breads as very low. Also, carbalose is brilliant for making white or cream sauces and gravies.

For chewiness in sweetened baked goods, polydextrose is king. If you were to take corn syrup, dry and powder it, and then enzyme modify it so that the body treated it as fiber, you'd have pretty much the same thing as poly-d. Whether it's king for your digestive system is another matter. A lot of us use a combo of sucralose, ace-K, erythritol and poly-d for both texture and best taste.

ravenrose 03-29-2011 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreekWatcher (Post 14510151)
As far as the WPI 5000 vs. 8000, my understanding is that the 8000 helps both rise and "structure" in yeast bread, the latter including something like chewiness in the crust of bread. The 5000 overwhelming helps rise, giving bread flexibility and "sproing." The 8000 is apparently just vital wheat gluten with most of the carbs removed, and vital gluten can be subbed for 8000. Also, the 8000 tastes good in reasonable proportions, and I don't think the 5000 tastes good in any amount--but the 5000 is a godsend for making a satisfactory rise in carbalose-based yeast bread possible.

At about 2g carb for a one ounce slice of bread, I would define Kevin's carbalose-based yeast breads as very low. Also, carbalose is brilliant for making white or cream sauces and gravies.

For chewiness in sweetened baked goods, polydextrose is king. If you were to take corn syrup, dry and powder it, and then enzyme modify it so that the body treated it as fiber, you'd have pretty much the same thing as poly-d. Whether it's king for your digestive system is another matter. A lot of us use a combo of sucralose, ace-K, erythritol and poly-d for both texture and best taste.

yes, I've read that about the 5000 and 8000 but my experience doesn't really conform to what they say. Interesting you don't like the taste of the 5000. I don't notice a problem with it.

CreekWatcher 03-29-2011 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenrose (Post 14513710)
yes, I've read that about the 5000 and 8000 but my experience doesn't really conform to what they say. Interesting you don't like the taste of the 5000. I don't notice a problem with it.

Have you found that you seem to get about as much rise with the 8000 in some yeast breads? (It's not clear to me whether any kind of wheat protein helps the rise in soda items.)

CarolynF 03-29-2011 08:46 PM

Welcome Barbi: How fun to have a professional baker among us. LC baking is a totally
other world experience...

Honestly, I keep my baking simple..coconut flour, oat fiber, almond flour, and protein powder for the most part as well as golden flax meal.

:)

norsgoebel 06-06-2011 06:34 AM

Charski-
Could you post links to the recipes that you mentioned in your post? Thanks so much!
Barbi

BigBravesGirl 06-06-2011 07:04 AM

Oooh, what a great thread!

Patricia Dowd 06-07-2011 03:25 PM

I also do not like the taste of the WPI 5000 or 8000. I also do not like the Carbquik. It smells and tastes terrible to me. I also love to bake and have found a few things that are really good. I would also suggest getting Jennifer Eloff's cookbooks. She is wonderful for low carb baking and check out Linda Sue's website. To me the Almond Flour items are the best. There is a cracker recipe on here somewhere that uses Almond flour and they are so good. Ravenrose gave you some good suggestions. I agree with her. She pretty much told you all you need to know. I will tell you this in my opinion nothing is going to taste like the high carb items but some things are really good and you will sometimes find you like some of them better than the high carb ones. Good luck.

sjhardy13 07-13-2011 10:37 AM

This is a helpful thread. What I have been searching for, and maybe someone here has an answer or not, or a link to a thread that I have yet to find in this VAST amount of super helpful information!!!....is a sugar substitute equivalency? Is there such a thing in existence? For example, if I am going to use a Liquid splenda, be it a EZsweetz, or DaVinci or a poly-d versus a erythritol.....which is stronger? Which should you use less or more of? Do people have a "suggested ratio"...I have seen on KevinPA's recipes that he will use a combination....but I'm unclear on the ratios I should use. Thank you to EVERYONE here! What a wonderful place to be!!

drjlocarb 07-13-2011 10:45 AM

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ons-1-cup.html

Ask and you shall receive.

Welcome to our little corner of the universe.

Charski 07-13-2011 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norsgoebel (Post 14713618)
Charski-
Could you post links to the recipes that you mentioned in your post? Thanks so much!
Barbi

Barbi, I'm really sorry, I didn't see this sooner! :blush:

Here you go, hope you're still lurking about and working on your LC baking repertoire! :hugs:

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ry-danish.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...nies-cake.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...cipe-pick.html

and a few more faves:

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...emon-cake.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...cake-bars.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ate-torte.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...k-muffins.html

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...arb-style.html

sjhardy13 07-14-2011 07:20 AM

:hugs:
THANK you! That link was exactly what I couldn't find! I am both printing and bookmarking! I :heart: :heart: :heart: this place!

sjhardy13 07-18-2011 10:14 AM

ok......one more question, I have been searching for......In Kevin's recipes...specifically his cakes and cookies....it calls for Not/Sugar as part of his "flour" concoction. Now...Not/Sugar is not available......what are folks using as a substitute? Thank you all so much!!! I really appreciate it! This is just an answer I haven't come across yet, despite my seaching attempts. :(

drjlocarb 07-18-2011 11:23 AM

I use 1/3 the amount xanthan gum. If The recipe calls for 1 t., I use 1/3 t. xanthum

sjhardy13 07-18-2011 11:31 AM

Thank you! Could Polyd be used also?
And, if so...how much would you use?

I mentioned this was for baking, right?

drjlocarb 07-19-2011 06:39 AM

Polyd mimics the properties of sugar (chewy and bulk). the gums in small quantities, hold things together and help with the stretchiness/ gluten properties.

If you dotn't have gums, they can be left out without much change in taste. It is more of a texture thing. Xanthan gum is available at health food stores.

sjhardy13 07-21-2011 11:51 AM

thank you very much. I didn't *think* it would be too much of a big deal, as it was 1 teaspoon of the total material.....but, I also know that Kevin really worked very hard to perfect his recipes and ingredients. And now....so many of his recipes call for that Not/Sugar thing.....which isn't available anymore........ug! Woe is me! Nah! I'm SO SO SO glad to be here taking this all in!!!


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