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Old 02-24-2010, 12:10 PM   #31
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My brain is a little too foggy right now to be having any thoughts, and I agree with you about the liquid solutions, but your last experiment with the neotame + clearly fiber powder sounds good; can you tell me where we can get the super small measure spoons?
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by CreekWatcher View Post
My brain is a little too foggy right now to be having any thoughts, and I agree with you about the liquid solutions, but your last experiment with the neotame + clearly fiber powder sounds good; can you tell me where we can get the super small measure spoons?
Sure, I found my set of Norpro Measuring Spoons (Tad, Dash, Pinch, Smidgen, Drop) on-line. Just Google or PM your email to me... ;-)

You may enjoy this discussion "Size So Totally Doesn't Matter" related to small spoons ;-) at:

Tad, dash, pinch, smidgen, drop, hint

And, post #153 page 6 of this thread:

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...splenda-6.html

dartstar1 - Thanks, it's all your fault! LOL!

Last edited by locarbman; 02-24-2010 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:48 AM   #33
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Hi, again ;-)

For those interested in a Neotame solution mixed with Vegetable Glycerine rather than water (Vegetable Glycerine is a natural anti-biotic) that does not have to be refrigerated, I submit the following:

1/2 cup (96 1/4t's (24t * 4)) Vegetable Glycerine require's 96 cups sugar equivalence to be at a strength yielding 1 cup sugar equivalence per 1/4 teaspoon solution.

I prepared this solution using:

1/2 cup Vegetable Glycerine = .375c sugar equivalence (.5c * .75 (strength of VG compared to sugar))
1/2t Neotame Powder = 83.3c sugar equivalence (per chart above)
1/16t Neotame Powder = 10.4c sugar equivalence (per chart above)
1/64t Neotame Powder = 2.6c sugar equivalence (per chart above)

Total sugar equivalence 96.7 cups

All of the Neotame powder goes into solution... ;-)

I tried using 2oz Quick Sweet Sucralose Powder in 1 cup less 2 teaspoons Vegetable Glycerine, however, this experiment was not successful as not all of the Sucralose Powder would go into solution ;-(

I prefer Vegetable Glycerin solutions for general use with Stevia (and now Neotame) because I don't have to worry about bacterial formation and they do not require refrigeration...excellent in SF ice creams... ;-)

Last edited by locarbman; 02-25-2010 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:59 PM   #34
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:46 AM   #35
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LOL! Looks like we are in the forefront working with Neotame …

I Googled ‘Liquid Neotame’ and my BLOG is #1 in the search:

Web Results 1 - 10 of about 1,320. Search took 0.25 seconds.

· Sucralose Refractometer Testing Results ;-) - Low Carb Friends
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com / bbs / blogs / locarbman / 3525-sucralose-refractom... - 70k - similar pages Locarbman's Liquid Neotame (1/4 teaspoon Neotame Powder mixed in 3.5 Tablespoons water): (Price per 1oz Neotame powder = $48) ...

I then Googled ‘Neotame Powder’ and my BLOG appeared at #3

Web Results 1 - 10 of about 1,290. Search took 0.30 seconds.

· [PDF] Neotame Powder
http://www.neotame.com/pdf/neotame_powder_US.pdf - similar pages
Neotame Powder (cont.) table 3. Typical Nutrient Data. Nutrient*. Per 100g. Water(g) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.0 ...

· Neotame > High-Intensity Sweetener > Sugar Substitute
Neotame > High-Intensity Sweetener > Sugar Substitute - 10k - similar pages
Neotame, the new high-intensity FDA-approved sweetener (sugar substitute). Neotame is a sweetener and flavor enhancer that offers consumers better-tasting, ...

· Sucralose Refractometer Testing Results ;-) - Low Carb Friends
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com / bbs / blogs / locarbman / 3525-sucralose-refractom... - 70k - similar pages Locarbman's Liquid Neotame (1/4 teaspoon Neotame Powder mixed in 3.5 Tablespoons ... Preliminary Calculations for 1 teaspoon Neotame Powder: ...

Made Blueberry Ice Cream yesterday using my Neotame/Vegetable Glycerine solution…it’s great! Only cost 8 cents (1 teaspoon) to sweeten 4 cups of ice cream... ;-) Has anyone else given this sweetener a try?

Last edited by locarbman; 03-09-2010 at 02:18 AM..
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:40 AM   #36
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WOW!! all I had was one little questions LOL
I did not realize our posts were in google
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:05 PM   #37
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Observations

I have just about finished my first solution of Liquid Neotame (1/4t Neotame powder mixed in 3.5T Vegetable Glycerin and thought I would share some observations… ;-)

1 – I find Neotame tastes better, alone, than my (synergystic) combination of Liquid Sucralose and Liquid Stevia.

2 – This solution seems sweeter to me as well, 1/16t in my 20oz mug of coffee seems sweeter than using my Sucralose/Stevia combo…Neotame may be a bit stronger than advertised… ;-)

3 – Using this solution in my ice cream finds that the ice cream tastes sweet longer than it does using Sucralose/Stevia which seems to overwhelm my sweetness taste buds (doesn’t taste as sweet) after a few tablespoons.

4 – My Aunt is happy with her Neotame powder/Clearly Fiber blend…still working well.

5 – I’m planning to try using Neotame powder in my solid chocolate recipe and in Coconut Oil Chocolate Bark soon…hope to find how Neotame works with chocolate… ;-)

I really like this Neotame sweetener and have placed an order for 2 more ounces…just in case… ;-) Now I have to decide what to do with all of my Sucralose and Stevia…LOL!
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:50 AM   #38
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locarbman, I have definitely decided to buy some neotame. I am only waiting for your results with chocolate to determine how much I will be buying. If it sweetens chocolate, what a wonderful finding that would be!
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:39 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Soobee View Post
locarbman, I have definitely decided to buy some neotame. I am only waiting for your results with chocolate to determine how much I will be buying. If it sweetens chocolate, what a wonderful finding that would be!
LOL! A Neotame friend...at last! ;-)

I did find a reference to the sweetening properties of Neotame:

NutraSweet's Sweet Spot test kitchen is trying to combine artificial sweeteners so that one makes up for the deficiencies of the other in mimicking the precise nature of sugar.
Saccharin and Ace-K register quickly on the palate but have an after-bite of bitterness because they also bind to one of the body's bitter receptors.
Neotame lacks bitterness but has a sweetness that takes longer to register -- and lingers unnaturally.
It is as much art as science in figuring out which combination can produce a better, more sugary taste.
Even without such blending, as much as one-third of the sugar in products can often be replaced with an artificial sweetener before consumers notice.
Taking the Sugar Out of Sweet - Los Angeles Times - Page 5
__________

And, this interesting article:

A sweet taste

The sweet-taste receptor consists of two large proteins on the surface of taste-bud cells. When sweeteners bind, the taste buds send a signal to the brain.

Sweetness through the ages

9000 BC: Sugar cane, growing wild in New Guinea jungles, is chewed by man.
7000 BC: Neolithic cave paintings depict man harvesting honey from hives.
1000 BC: Sugar cane is traded and cultivated through the world, reaching Spain by about AD 700.
1550: First commercial cultivation of sugar cane in the New World, followed by rise of the slave trade to work plantations in Brazil and West Indies.
1879: Accidental discovery of saccharin, the first artificial sweetener.
1937: Discovery of cyclamate during studies for anti-fever drugs.
1952: First diet soft drink--a ginger ale called the No-Cal Beverage.
1963: Introduction of Tab, sweetened with saccharin and cyclamate.
1964: Diet Pepsi introduced, sweetened with saccharin.
1965: Discovery of aspartame (NutraSweet).
1966: Introduction of Fresca, sweetened with cyclamate and saccharin.
Taking the Sugar Out of Sweet - Los Angeles Times - Page 6
1967: Discovery of acesulfame-K, a saccharin-like artificial sweetener.
1970: Cyclamate banned in U.S. after studies report large doses can cause cancer in rats.
1970s: Introduction of high fructose corn syrup into drinks and food.
1976: Discovery of sucralose (Splenda).
1977: Food and Drug Administration proposes ban of saccharin after studies report large doses cause cancer in rats. A consumer outcry blocks the ban. Warning labels are added to saccharin-containing products.
1982: Diet Coke (sweetened with aspartame) introduced.
1992: Discovery of neotame, structurally similar to aspartame but sweeter.
1998: FDA approves sucralose (Splenda).
2000: Warning labels taken off saccharin packets.
2002: Scientists isolate human sweet-taste receptor.
2002: FDA approves the latest artificial sweetener, neotame, 7,000 to 13,000 times sweeter than sugar.
Taking the Sugar Out of Sweet - Los Angeles Times - Page 7
__________


Am awaiting the arrival of my recent Cocoa Butter order but did make 2 chocolate bars usng 4oz Callebaut unsweetened chocolate (purchased 10lbs about 7 years ago...still have 9.2 pounds on hand... ;-) The neotame is definitely good tasting and although initially, the chocolate flavor was predominate (from the cocoa mass, my cocoa butter recipe will use much less cocoa ;-), I did experience the residual sweeteness mentioned in the above article. I will try a combination of Neotame and Stevia with LorAnn Oils Chocolate flavorings when my cocoa butter arrives...stay tuned... ;-)
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:48 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by locarbman View Post
I have just about finished my first solution of Liquid Neotame (1/4t Neotame powder mixed in 3.5T Vegetable Glycerin and thought I would share some observations… ;-)

1 – I find Neotame tastes better, alone, than my (synergystic) combination of Liquid Sucralose and Liquid Stevia.

2 – This solution seems sweeter to me as well, 1/16t in my 20oz mug of coffee seems sweeter than using my Sucralose/Stevia combo…Neotame may be a bit stronger than advertised… ;-)

3 – Using this solution in my ice cream finds that the ice cream tastes sweet longer than it does using Sucralose/Stevia which seems to overwhelm my sweetness taste buds (doesn’t taste as sweet) after a few tablespoons.

4 – My Aunt is happy with her Neotame powder/Clearly Fiber blend…still working well.

5 – I’m planning to try using Neotame powder in my solid chocolate recipe and in Coconut Oil Chocolate Bark soon…hope to find how Neotame works with chocolate… ;-)

I really like this Neotame sweetener and have placed an order for 2 more ounces…just in case… ;-) Now I have to decide what to do with all of my Sucralose and Stevia…LOL!
Lowcarbman ... the vegetable glycerin would add additional sweetness ... no? Glycerin is, by its nature, sweet tasting. And while I might disagree with it being "anti-biotic" ... it's certainly "anti-bacterial" as it inhibits bacterial growth ... perhaps much in the same way as honey does.

Here is a quote from Wiki ... "As a sugar substitute, it has approximately 27 calories per teaspoon and is 60 percent as sweet as sucrose. Although it has about the same food energy as table sugar, it does not raise blood sugar levels, nor does it feed the bacteria that form plaques and cause dental cavities. As a food additive, glycerol is labeled as E number E422."

So ... by itself, vegetable glycerin is a "sugar substitute" that does not raise blood sugar ... and therefore a great medium in which to test neotame.

I just may have to purchase some of this miracle sweetener myself!

I look forward to hearing more of this stuff. Now ... where to purchase it in Canada?

Mary
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Old 03-27-2010, 03:37 AM   #41
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Mary, I don't think shipping would be much of a problem, because you buy it by the ounce. Locarbman, did you find the lingering sweetness to be unpleasant? I sometimes find that lingering sweetness with sucralose sweetened desserts. I know it bothers some people a lot. But I don't usually mind. I also find that if I lessen the sweetener, most of that effect disappears. Perhaps you need slightly less sweetener in your chocolate. I have not yet found out how to make a good chocolate bar, and it's not for lack of trying. Most of my 11 pound bar of Callebaut is gone.
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Old 03-28-2010, 12:44 PM   #42
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Hi Mary,

“Lowcarbman ... the vegetable glycerin would add additional sweetness ... no?”

Yes, but I also use VG in my Sucralose and Stevia solutions…and 1/8t VG is only ~1/16t sugar equivalence. The reason I suspect the 8,000 teaspoons sugar equivalence (general consensus on the net) is Wiki’s description of Neotame strength at 7,000 to 13,000 times sugar…hard to believe they can be all that accurate at ‘only’ 8,000 times sugar… ;-)

“I might disagree with it being "anti-biotic"”

LOL! My slip…it is bactericidal!

“I look forward to hearing more of this stuff. Now ... where to purchase it in Canada?”

Neotame Powder is available on-line, however, I do live 80 miles south of the Canadian Border and we might meet on some dark night…what do you think? ;-)

Soobee,

“Locarbman, did you find the lingering sweetness to be unpleasant?”

Sweetness unpleasant? LOL! Just an observation that was confirmed in the LA Times article… ;-)

“I have not yet found out how to make a good chocolate bar, and it's not for lack of trying. Most of my 11 pound bar of Callebaut is gone.”

Wow! That’s a lot of ‘not good’ chocolate bars…we’ll have to do something about that! ;-)

What are your favorite recipes…so far?

PS: You may find this article "Artificial Sweeteners in Chocolate Candy" interesting...

http://www.chocolate-candy-mall.com/...chocolate.html

Last edited by locarbman; 03-28-2010 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:51 PM   #43
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My favorite so far doesn't use chocolate at all, but cocoa.It's the chocolate coconut chia bar in this thread.
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...a-recipes.html
I have tried chocolate bars with coconut oil, cocoa butter, peanut butter, and a variety of other add-ins. But it's very hard to sweeten the thick fatty chocolate properly in a home kitchen. Naturally, I feel duty bound to eat all my mistakes.
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:53 PM   #44
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My favorite so far doesn't use chocolate at all, but cocoa.It's the chocolate coconut chia bar in this thread.
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...a-recipes.html
I have tried chocolate bars with coconut oil, cocoa butter, peanut butter, and a variety of other add-ins. But it's very hard to sweeten the thick fatty chocolate properly in a home kitchen. Naturally, I feel duty bound to eat all my mistakes.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:31 PM   #45
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Received my 2nd order of Neotame powder this morning, however, order had Qty 2 scratched out and 1 entered, no explanation...amount adjusted to one ounce, however, PayPal already debited last week for 2oz. Left message and am awaiting response... ;-(
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:30 PM   #46
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Oh no, oh no. Don't tell me they have run out before I even ordered.
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Old 03-30-2010, 03:02 AM   #47
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Oh no, oh no. Don't tell me they have run out before I even ordered.
LOL! looks like you can breathe easier... ;-)

Up late, just received this email at 1:40:33 AM ;-):

"Hi, Ralph:
Sorry we've just got your message (delayed by local phone-company).
We'll check the situation in our warehouse to see what happened and will
send you one more oz .
Sorry for that
David
Manager"

Whew! ;-)

I replied "Thanks David! Here is just one of the post's from our bulletin board "Oh no, oh no. Don't tell me they have run out before I even ordered.". I'm sure you will be receiving more orders...soon... ;-)

The only other source I have found (so far ;-) charges $70.00 for 0.9oz... ;-(

Let me see...I now have 4oz Neotame powder which equates to ~12,000 cups sugar equivalence...guess I'm good...for a while...LOL!
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:38 AM   #48
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WOW

I think I am going to buy the Neotame Powder instead of the Sucralose powder in a couple of days...

I think 2 oz of it will do me a LONG TIME!! I already have the Vegetable Glycerin

That is Unless you want to give me your Sucralose and Stevia Lowcarbman!! LOL!

TY so much for your findings!!

HUGS
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:00 AM   #49
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Me, too Christina. I am very intrigued with the possibilities. I can't think there would be a problem with too many sweeteners.I plan to use them all.
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:20 PM   #50
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Update on Neotame availability...

Just received this email from my source:

"I've just come back from NY/NJ on business.
I checked my warehouse and find that the Newtame(Neotame) is temporarily out of stock. We've placed another bulk order from our supplier which usually needs 1 to 2 weeks.
David
Manager
AHFNI"

Just FYI... ;-)
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:45 AM   #51
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Thanks. I will order as soon as it's in.
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:29 AM   #52
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locarbman, I have definitely decided to buy some neotame. I am only waiting for your results with chocolate to determine how much I will be buying. If it sweetens chocolate, what a wonderful finding that would be!
Sorry, I don't find Neotame much different than Sucralose in my chocolate... ;-(

Most chocolate candy sites seem to prefer sugar alcohols and McNeil is currently working on a patent for an Erythritol/Stevia blend. They have found that Stevia blocks Erythritol's 'cooling' effect. Guess I'll just have to rely upon my favorite 'laxative' Russell Stovers Pecan Delights ;-)
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:21 AM   #53
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I've read this thread with great interest but my original intent was to find Locarbman again.

I've been away from these boards for some time and I have found a renewed interest in stevia and as I remembered Locarbman was the "Stevia Syrup Master". What happened, Locarbman, to make you abandon the use of stevia? I hope it wasn't something bad.

What I wanted to ask was if you had ever developed a recipe for a stevia based syrup that replaces honey or even a davinci type honey flavored syrup. I'm trying to make stevia my number one sweetener.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:36 PM   #54
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Hi Pam,

LOL! I have not abandoned Stevia! I just like to explore new sweeteners as they appear… ;-) I do like the LorAnn Flavoring Oils Honey flavoring but mostly use Steele’s and Honeytree’s maltitol based honey in recipes.

You might try using LorAnn’s flavoring with Vegetable Glycerine (a thick sweetener 75% as sweet as sugar) and Stevia to taste for a honey flavored syrup. For a Davinci’s type honey flavored syrup, you could try adapting my recipes in posts #13 & #15 Page1 Of this thread:

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...id-stevia.html

using honey flavoring…

Hope this helps… ;-)
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:23 PM   #55
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Well, I took the plunge. Ordered 2 oz of neotame. Can't wait to start experimenting. locarbman, you said neotame was no better than sucralose in sweetening chocolate. Does that hold true for cocoa recipes? If you haven't tried it yet, I will be happy to start many chocolate investigations, in the name of science, of course.
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:26 PM   #56
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locarbman, by chance have you tried Natures Flavors honey flavor, and if so do you find Lorann better? (Natures Flavors tastes about like Juicy Fruit gum.)
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Old 04-03-2010, 02:59 PM   #57
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Well, I took the plunge. Ordered 2 oz of neotame. Can't wait to start experimenting. locarbman, you said neotame was no better than sucralose in sweetening chocolate. Does that hold true for cocoa recipes? If you haven't tried it yet, I will be happy to start many chocolate investigations, in the name of science, of course.
Way to go! ;-) I haven't yet tried cocoa but am planning to try adding Erythritol and Stevia powder with Neotame powder in my next chocolate (cocoa butter) experiment per suggestions at the above Chocolate Candy Mall site and findings in this article...and am looking forward to your 'chocolate investigations, in the name of science' of course... lol!

Zero-calorie plus zero-calorie

A discussion of sweeteners would not be complete these days without mention to stevia – the natural, zero-calorie sweetener making big waves around the world. McNeil Nutritionals, the company behind the sucralose-based Splenda, has filed a patent application for a stevia-erythritol blend to add to the multi-coloured sachet range of table top sweeteners.

According to the company’s application (US2008/068344), erythritol is currently blended with a range of other sweeteners including inulin, isomalt, and glycerin in order to counter erythritol’s ‘strong cooling effect’.
“However, all [of these sweeteners] add bulk, calories, and potentially gastro-intestinal side effects, all of which are undesirable attributes in a tabletop sweetener composition,” says the patent application. “What is needed is a tabletop sweetener composition that minimizes the erythritol's brightness without the calories and potential gastro-intestinal side effects associated with previously known methods.”

While some products are already available using erythritol and stevia (80 to 99 per cent Reb-A), most of these use a blend whereby stevia provides between 20 to about 75 per cent of the sweetness of the composition, claims the McNeil patent.

“Surprisingly, it has been found that erythritol-containing tabletop sweetener compositions containing very small amounts of stevia extracts unexpectedly mask the "bright" taste normally associated with erythritol,” states the patent application. “This effect occurs at levels that are about 300 times less than those previously known. The level is also several times less than compositions where stevia is the primary sweetener.”

This led the McNeil team to stevia, and they are developing a blend containing a weight ratio of about 200 to 2000 (erythritol) to about 1 (stevia). Such a formulation would mean that between 70 and 99 per cent of the sweetness would come from stevia, while 98.5 to 99 per cent of the weight coming from erythritol.
__________

study by scientists from NutraSweet and DukeUniversity in 2007 (Food Quality and Preference, Vol. 18, pp. 405-415).

The science of sweetener blends

;-)
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Old 04-03-2010, 03:07 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CreekWatcher View Post
locarbman, by chance have you tried Natures Flavors honey flavor, and if so do you find Lorann better? (Natures Flavors tastes about like Juicy Fruit gum.)
No, I haven't tried Nature's Flavors...yet... ;-) Got started with LorAnn's years ago and never felt the need to change...have most of their 80 flavors on the shelf...am using their Canadian Maple Chocolate flavoring in my cocoa butter recipe... ;-)
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:10 AM   #59
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Ok..I have a question..

I am getting a little confused..

I am going to buy Quick Sweet Pure Neotane...

Only can afford 2 oz for now..

How much Vegetable Glycerin in this to use for 8 oz of Liquid Sweetness?

I am also buying the Pure Sucralose from his site also.. How much Sucralose powder do I use 8 oz of Liquid Splenda?? I might just use water with the Sucralose..

Confused Sinus infection brain here today...

TY
Christina
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:32 AM   #60
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Hi Christina, ;-)

8oz (1cup) Water or Vegetable Glyceryn requires 192 cups sugar equivalence to yield 1 cup sugar equivalence per ¼ teaspoon solution (16T*3t*4)

Per the sugar equivalence charts in post #17, I would add:

Neotame powder (13.7 teaspoons/ounce):
1 teaspoon = 166.67 cups plus
1/8 teaspoon = 20.83 cups plus
1/32 teaspoon = 5.21 cups
Total 192.71 cups sugar equivalence to make 8oz Liquid Neotame.

NOTE: 8oz (1 cup Vegetable Glycerine adds 0.75 cups sugar equivalence ;-)

Sucralose powder (13.7 teaspoons/ounce):
5 tablespoons (15 teaspoons) = 187.5 cups plus
1/4 teaspoon = 3.13 cups plus
1/8 teaspoon =1.56 cups
Total 192.19 cups sugar equivalence to make 8oz Liquid Sucralose

Sweet Dreams… ;-)

Last edited by locarbman; 04-05-2010 at 10:41 AM..
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