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Old 09-12-2009, 04:11 PM   #61
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P.S. Miboje and Julie, how long did you knead your dough? Do you use a Sunbeam mixmaster or Kitchenaid? Did you do the window pane test too? Angie described and illustrated that in the good bread thread.

I wonder if this would work on the pizza dough cycle?
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:06 PM   #62
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Surprise, surprise my Bob's Red Mill WW flour and ww pastry flour are the same 24 carbs and 4 fiber. I thought the ww flour was much higher.
I bought the King Author White WW Flour today for 18 carbs and 3 fiber..I just might have to play around and sub that out for the pastry flour just for fun next week.. I have the pastry flour also...

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Old 09-13-2009, 11:09 AM   #63
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Jen, I was up at our cabin when I made these, and had only my breadmaker, so, I just set it for kneeding for 14 minutes. Be sure to toast these, when you want a sandwich, or whatever. They are so good that way. Julie
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Old 09-13-2009, 01:04 PM   #64
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Thank you, Julie. The cabin sounds so nice.
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Old 09-13-2009, 04:50 PM   #65
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Jennifer - I am glad you tried them. I would not want to be without the recipe.

I did find ww pastry flour this weekend, and I will give that a whirl next time. I'm thinking about trying cheese danish.

I use a KitchenAid for the mixing and kneading. It is sticky, but I found that the whole grains absorb the liquid by the time kneading is done. I knead for 18 mins. I didn't know about the window pane test, so I have not used that.

I think this recipe will work for pizza crust, raised doughnuts, cheese danish, croutons, monkey bread, stuffing, french toast, bread sticks, garlic bread, and of course different seasonings can be added for variety. I really enjoy it toasted.

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Old 09-13-2009, 05:15 PM   #66
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Thanks, Bobbi! I added your wonderful contributions to the good bread sticky.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:18 PM   #67
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Sure Jennifer! I hope someone finds it useful and helpful.

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Old 09-14-2009, 10:13 AM   #68
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Thanks for all the additional info!!! I am off to try to make the buns..the ones here look so much better than the ones I got on my first attempt..

Jennifer, can you post the recipe for your Cinnamon Egg Bread that you spoke of of a few posts back? I tired one of Dana Carpenders on the weekend and picked the wrong settng on the bread machine and ended up with a big square unedible block.. my fault, certainly not her recipe! You have me very intrigued with your recipe..

Thanks!
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Old 09-15-2009, 05:53 PM   #69
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Miboje, the picture of your cinnamon rolls has been stuck in my head since you posted that picture! So, I had to make a batch with your tweaked bread recipe. They turned out fantastic. This variation is great!
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:02 AM   #70
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I'm so glad you liked them, Bikerang!! They were definitely a treat. I had read in the Good Bread thread that you had reduced the vwg successfully, so I decided to try that. The taste and smell of it was "getting to me"; becoming unappetizing. This variation ups the carbs, but I think the finished product is so worth it. Your use of chia seeds interests me.

I tried the recipe yesterday with ww pastry flour. It makes quite a difference in the bread vs. regular ww flour. It smelled and tasted different, to my surprise. It lost that chewy texture. It took more flour to stiffen the dough; almost 1.5 c. vs. 1.25 of ww flour. I would say it was more similar to white bread than whole grain. It makes a very crunchy toast with no soft center to speak of. I didn't think it would make that much difference. I should add that I gave up white bread many years ago. I prefer whole grain, but someone who prefers white bread may find the ww pastry flour more suitable for their taste.

I think I am going to stick with regular whole wheat flour in the recipe. As I get this one down pat (I think I have it), I will work on replacing some of the flour with something with fewer carbs.

Last edited by miboje; 09-16-2009 at 06:44 AM..
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:32 AM   #71
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You know, Bobbi, that gluten taste is far less noticeable to me in the machine bread version of the recipe vs loaf pan breads and hamburger buns where the VWG is increased by another 1/4 cup, but you must be extra sensitive to that taste, and further reduced the vital wheat gluten from 1 cup to 3/4 cup. Your version is great for other like-minded people. I have other breads too that are less gluteny in taste. Low-carb bread making is a big challenge, but as you can see, not impossible. You and Angie and others are real experts at this now! I read your experience with w/w pastry flour and found your comments very interesting.

Mallory, I'll see about posting that recipe when I get the time later on. Thank you for your interest.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:45 AM   #72
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You know, Jennifer, you are right about that. I have not seen one other person mention having an issue with vwg. I don't know why I would be so sensitive to it. I guess I am just odd..lol..

My comments about the pastry flour results were just my own observations to be taken with a grain of salt. I guess bread can really just boil down to personal preferences. Pretty much all food does, really. My fiance is convinced that only Heinz ketchup is best (even though I think my homemade stuff is), and I think it's Hellman's mayo or none.

Having said all of that, I should point out that I am not normal. On any given day, you may find me using a chain saw or axe, making my own ketchup from scratch, using my rain barrel, packing and shipping orders (I have a home based business), doing research on sustainable and alternative energies, studying permaculture, gathering wild edibles, and the list goes on.

I need to get my blog going as I can see I really am rambling here!! Oops! Can you tell I don't get to talk to others much?!
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:03 AM   #73
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ROFL, Bobbie. Don't worry you're not too eccentric and I didn't take offense in your honesty. I do taste the VWG - same as you - not so much in the bread machine version, which my high-carbing sons gobbled, no problem, but with the hamburgers, so I think your version is a good alternative for peeps like us.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:15 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by miboje View Post

Having said all of that, I should point out that I am not normal. On any given day, you may find me using a chain saw or axe, making my own ketchup from scratch, using my rain barrel, packing and shipping orders (I have a home based business), doing research on sustainable and alternative energies, studying permaculture, gathering wild edibles, and the list goes on.

I need to get my blog going as I can see I really am rambling here!! Oops! Can you tell I don't get to talk to others much?!
HA - this sounds a lot like me!

I taste the VWG too. I try to cover it up with molasses and a bit of stevia (and Jennifer's addition of vanilla really helps too). I really like the flavor of this bread when made with oat flour and buckwheat, it helps cover up that VWG taste.
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:08 AM   #75
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HA - this sounds a lot like me!

I taste the VWG too. I try to cover it up with molasses and a bit of stevia (and Jennifer's addition of vanilla really helps too). I really like the flavor of this bread when made with oat flour and buckwheat, it helps cover up that VWG taste.

This sounds allot like me also...But I LOVE This bread thou...I still taste the VWG in it...but of course I love ALL of Jennifer's recipes..getting ready to make her Chocolate Chip Oatmeal cookies either tonight or tommorow. I have got to make some loaves and freeze them..I need some for my Thanksgiving table and Turkey Stuffing recipe
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:28 AM   #76
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Interesting, Angie - that combination of flours. I can get buckwheat here, so you've convinced me. I think the molasses idea is great! I also want to try Oliveoyl's rye flour suggestion.

Christina - you are a sweetie - thank you for being so kind. The bread will probably be much better baked fresh on Thanksgiving Day - that's why I like to have a bread machine - stick in the ingredients, hit the bread rapid button and forget about it until about 30 minutes of baking time is left. The original recipe in the good bread sticky: the bread machine bread pops the top! It has much less VWG aftertaste and the slices are much bigger than the smaller 2-loaf version, hence the slightly higher carbs - 4.9 g vs 2.0 g. A regular slice of bread is usually around 15 grams of carbohydrate. My family gobbles this bread, no problem; in fact it usually does not last more than a day. I sometimes like to make my Cinnamon Raisin Bread for special occasions when I know other people will be dining with us. That's one of my favorites.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:12 PM   #77
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Jennifer - Good. I did not mean to offend. I'm just anal like that.

BikerAng! Really?! In what ways? Maybe we should talk! Lol...really though, I live in a very rural area and have only a handful of friends that I can communicate with on my level (meaning they think about sustainability and self-sufficiency). Everyone else just thinks I am out in left field somewhere. Also, I think we have gotten lazy as a society, and we just prefer to buy it rather than face the work of doing things for ourselves.

Me and my few friends are actually having a meeting to discuss alternative energy options for ourselves and our community.

I am so excited for this weekend. I have not had time away in 10 years, so my fiance and I are taking off this weekend to attend the PA Renewable Energy Festival. I am actually hoping to find another business idea, too, along with ideas we can implement to cut our energy usage/ foster energy independance. My business has been good to me in the last 3 years, but the economy is hurting me (like it's hurting most everyone). I feel a need to move into alternative energy.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:36 PM   #78
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Okay great Jennifer, whenever you have time..Id love to try that recipe.

I took Mijobe's advice and made buns with 1/4 cup less vital wheat gluten (I can certainly taste it too and am trying to mask the flavour)..used all ww pastry flour and although they still smelled/taste a bit funky, they looked beautiful!!!They rose just like traditional buns, baked up beautifully, are frozen now for whenever I want!!! My kids could not believe they were low carb.. I got 14 out of the recipe and they are just big enough for a hamburger!!

I used Angie's steps as she posted a few posts back (mixing the wet and then adding the dry, didnt proof the yeast, and did it wall with my mixmaster). The dough was just like bread dough and each doughball was about 51 grams before baking.

I wish we could find something that would really mask that smell, other than vanilla which works but not enough for me..toasted I don't seem to notice as much???
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:42 PM   #79
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Mallory, you might find the whole wheat flour has a better flavor - with 14 buns, the carbs only go up 1.2 grams or something like that vs whole wheat pastry flour - I forget the exact amount (negligible, in any case). I used whole wheat flour and honestly could not detect any funky taste. They tasted great!
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:10 PM   #80
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I am going to just have to make some rolls or buns and sub with the WW flour just to see if they taste different...
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:16 PM   #81
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Interesting, Angie - that combination of flours. I can get buckwheat here, so you've convinced me. I think the molasses idea is great! I also want to try Oliveoyl's rye flour suggestion.

Christina - you are a sweetie - thank you for being so kind. The bread will probably be much better baked fresh on Thanksgiving Day - that's why I like to have a bread machine - stick in the ingredients, hit the bread rapid button and forget about it until about 30 minutes of baking time is left. The original recipe in the good bread sticky: the bread machine bread pops the top! It has much less VWG aftertaste and the slices are much bigger than the smaller 2-loaf version, hence the slightly higher carbs - 4.9 g vs 2.0 g. A regular slice of bread is usually around 15 grams of carbohydrate. My family gobbles this bread, no problem; in fact it usually does not last more than a day. I sometimes like to make my Cinnamon Raisin Bread for special occasions when I know other people will be dining with us. That's one of my favorites.

Hey Jen

My Sunbeam bread machine has a rapid and dough cycle. I looked at the book and they both still have 2 kneeds..that is why I just do the dough in there and then take it out and shape it...

One of the loaves will be for somekind of LC Stuffing hint..hint... and the other will be a loaf or rolls(thinking rolls because my son LOVES rolls) I want the one for Stuffing to dry out some but I am looking for a LC recipe for that...in the past 2 years it was ok but not great...
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:40 PM   #82
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Mallory - I agree with Jennifer. The flavor is better with whole wheat flour. It's worth using it.

I am using vanilla, too, and a teaspoon of honey, which has a flavor of it's own, instead of sugar and erythritol, . Toasting does help (actually delectable!), but I think you would be pleased with them if you try the ww flour. I actually enjoy smelling them. My fiance, who is not LC, says they are perfect, and when toasted, remind him of english muffins. I will say this, if you do not care for a bread with a chewy texture, you may not like them, though.

They certainly are beautiful, and the smell reminds me of whole grain artisan bread. They freeze beautifully, but I have not kept them frozen for very long periods, so I don't know if they will change texture or flavor over time. You might want to consider slicing them almost through before freezing. That way, if you forgot to get one out to thaw first, it's easy to split and throw in the toaster.

I am actually going to have real stuffing at Thanksgiving and Christmas this year! Yay! I'll save the pastry flour for pie crust.
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Old 09-16-2009, 04:06 PM   #83
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Mallory - I agree with Jennifer. The flavor is better with whole wheat flour. It's worth using it.

I am using vanilla, too, and a teaspoon of honey, which has a flavor of it's own, instead of sugar and erythritol, . Toasting does help (actually delectable!), but I think you would be pleased with them if you try the ww flour. I actually enjoy smelling them. My fiance, who is not LC, says they are perfect, and when toasted, remind him of english muffins. I will say this, if you do not care for a bread with a chewy texture, you may not like them, though.

They certainly are beautiful, and the smell reminds me of whole grain artisan bread. They freeze beautifully, but I have not kept them frozen for very long periods, so I don't know if they will change texture or flavor over time. You might want to consider slicing them almost through before freezing. That way, if you forgot to get one out to thaw first, it's easy to split and throw in the toaster.

I am actually going to have real stuffing at Thanksgiving and Christmas this year! Yay! I'll save the pastry flour for pie crust.
What is your final recipe for this? Do you have a good stuffing recipe??
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Old 09-16-2009, 05:42 PM   #84
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I'm going to have to get it to you. I use the one in the Fit for Life cook book by Marilyn Diamond.

Now, where did my book go...
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Old 09-17-2009, 06:41 AM   #85
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Mac24312 - I cannot find that cook book anywhere! It's an older one which you could most likely get from your library, though. In the meantime, I have to find it.

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Old 09-22-2009, 12:48 PM   #86
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Mijobe - I made the original recipe in post #3 today. I did the knead in my bread machine on the dough only setting but took it out right after the knead and didn't let it rise in the machine. I formed into a loaf and put the whole recipe into one large bread pan. I didn't notice that you had changes to make the recipe into loaves until everything was already in the machine so I just kept going - I let it rise as per the instructions and baked it. The taste is really very good, I had a slice right out of the oven, I think it may have more flavor after it's cooled.

You have a post that I think is your final bun recipe:
1 c. water
1 T. yeast
1.5 t. honey
3 T. olive oil
1 egg
1 t. vanilla
3/4 c. vwg
1 & 1/6 c. ww flour
1/2 c. wheat bran
1 t. salt
1 t. baking powder

I used the first recipe, not the variation recipe.

I don't know exactly what you mean by that last sentence? Is the above recipe now just right for both buns and loaves? Also, I don't have any regular honey, only sugar-free, which I assume would not work in this application. Could Agave Nectar be used in place of the honey?, I do have that. I would like to try again in a day or so to see if I could get a higher rise by using a smaller pan. The loaf I made will be fine for toast but I'd like regular size slices for sandwiches. I blame part of the rise on myself, I didn't pat it out and roll into a proper loaf, I just made a loaf shaped blob and put it in the pan.

I appreciate all of your experimenting and coming up with a nice whole wheat loaf. Also, thanks to Jen, Angie, Christina and everyone who contributed to this thread.
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Old 09-22-2009, 03:49 PM   #87
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Tweakergeek- Try to take out the oat flour and replace it with ww. or the other options for that. I found the oat flour did not rise well. WW flour will up the carbs.

That is the recipe I had posted, but, after more tinkering, I think 1&1/4 c. ww flour works best. The dough may seem sticky until the whole grains absorb liquid.

I'm not sure which last sentence you are referring to. If you could clarify, I will try to explain for you.

I don't see why agave would not work. It has natural sugars just like honey, so it should be fine.

I have not tried my version for a loaf, but I think Jennifer mentioned trying it in the Good Bread thread (sticky) and it flopped. I only use the recipe for buns.

Jennifer's recipe would still rise ok even though you left it in a blob. I used to make it in my bread machine without shaping it at all. I think the main thing in the original recipe, as far as rising, is the oat flour.

You are welcome. I am still experimenting with it, actually. I am thinking about adding cheese, dried onion, cinnamon, herbs, etc. to alter the flavor. Also, I would like to get the carb count down by replacing some of the ww flour with something. Maybe almond flour (?)
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Old 09-22-2009, 04:26 PM   #88
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mibeje, let us know what you do new. Julie
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Old 09-22-2009, 05:25 PM   #89
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Mijobe - thanks for responding. I didn't use Oat Flour anyway, I used golden flax seed meal, do you think I should still replace that with more whole wheat flour? So that would make the recipe I use a total of 1/2 plus 2/3 cups of whole wheat flour with 1/2 cup wheat bran and 3/4 cup vwg?

The sentence I was referring to is " I used the first recipe, not the variation recipe. "

The bread is very good and I think if I use my smaller loaf pan and form the loaf properly I will get a good rise, I think it just spread too wide and wasn't able to rise high enough. I'm of the belief that bread doughs spread to the sides of the pan and then with no place to go but up, they rise higher. (That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!)

I'm going to try the bread toasted for breakfast anyway, I'll let you know how that works out.
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:56 AM   #90
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Mijobe - I had my bread toasted for breakfast and it is YUMMY! I could not detect any taste of VWG, the flavor is perfect and it toasted up perfectly. I had it with butter and sf grape jelly. Now I can't wait to have a tuna sandwich on this bread, one of my favs, tuna on whole wheat! I'm really going to have to watch myself to not over indulge in this stuff. I can't have any more now till tomorrow or the next day - (keeps repeating - can't have bread everyday, can't have bread everyday!!)

I will be trying some in the smaller loaf pans, probably on the weekend.
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