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Old 01-02-2009, 06:07 AM   #61
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I bought my sucralose powder in 2001. At that time it was $25/ounce, and I really believe I have a lifetime supply.

Now, I have only used about 1 1/2 ounces of it, but that's mainly because I just haven't found a good, standardized way to mix it up so I KNOW what I am getting. And also, I discovered right quick that just sucralose and water didn't make a good-tasting sweetener. I always have to mix it in with another sweetener (most often cyclamate that I order from Canada) to make it taste good.

That said, I'd sure like a standardized recipe for the sucralose/water combo so I can know how much to use every time. I can't help it - I'm a CPA and I like my numbers. So sue me!
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:13 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by gharkness View Post
I'd sure like a standardized recipe for the sucralose/water combo so I can know how much to use every time. I can't help it - I'm a CPA and I like my numbers. So sue me!
Hi Georgene, here are some numbers… ;-)

Given that Sucralose powder is 600 times sugar:

1t. Sucralose powder = 12.5 cups sugar (600/48)
1/2t. Sucralose powder = 6 1/4 cups sugar (12.5/2)
1/4t. Sucralose powder = 3 1/8 cups sugar (6.25/2)
1/8t. Sucralose powder = ~1 1/2 cups sugar (3.125/2)
1/16t. Sucralose powder = ~3/4 cup sugar (1.56/2)
1/32t. Sucralose powder = ~1/3 cup sugar (0.78/2)

Given that Liquid Sucralose is 200 times sugar:

1t. liquid Sucralose = 4 cups sugar (200/48)
1/2t. liquid Sucralose = 2 cups sugar (4/2)
1/4t. liquid Sucralose = 1 cup sugar (2/2)
1/8t. liquid Sucralose = ½ cup sugar (1/2)
1/16t. liquid Sucralose = ¼ cup sugar (1/2 / 2)
1/32t. liquid Sucralose = 1/8 cup sugar (1/4 /2)

To prepare 1 cup liquid Sucralose from Sucralose powder:

1c water = 8floz = 16T = 48t = 192 1/4t requires 9216t (192*48) sugar equivalents to = a strength of 200 times sugar (1/4t = 1c sugar).

AZJeanne measured 1oz Sucralose powder to be approximately 4T (or 12t) powder (I confirmed ;-). Therefore 12*600 is the equivalent of 7,200t sugar per oz of product. I have seen no official specification of serving size per ounce of Sucralose powder to date ;-(

Thus it will take [(a ratio here ;-) 1oz is to 7200t as X is to 9216t. Cross multiplication gives 7200X = 9216, X= 9216/7200 or] 1.28 oz Sucralose powder per cup of water to achieve a strength of 200 times sugar…the 1/2oz Sucralose powder to 1 cup of water I've been using (per my previous post) is not correct but has kept me satisfied for 6 years LOL!

Hope this helps ;-)

Last edited by locarbman; 01-02-2009 at 01:25 PM..
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Old 01-02-2009, 04:49 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by locarbman View Post
Hi Georgene, here are some numbers… ;-)
To prepare 1 cup liquid Sucralose from Sucralose powder:

1c water = 8floz = 16T = 48t = 192 1/4t requires 9216t (192*48) sugar equivalents to = a strength of 200 times sugar (1/4t = 1c sugar).

AZJeanne measured 1oz Sucralose powder to be approximately 4T (or 12t) powder (I confirmed ;-). Therefore 12*600 is the equivalent of 7,200t sugar per oz of product. I have seen no official specification of serving size per ounce of Sucralose powder to date ;-(

Thus it will take [(a ratio here ;-) 1oz is to 7200t as X is to 9216t. Cross multiplication gives 7200X = 9216, X= 9216/7200 or] 1.28 oz Sucralose powder per cup of water to achieve a strength of 200 times sugar…the 1/2oz Sucralose powder to 1 cup of water I've been using (per my previous post) is not correct but has kept me satisfied for 6 years LOL!

Hope this helps ;-)
Yes, this was what I was looking for, and also, I had 'heard' the 600X sweeter, but didn't know if that was really true or not. If it really is a given, then that makes the calculations a lot easier.

Second question....I found that the sucralose was very difficult to get to dissolve into the water. I thought about perhaps heating it, or putting it in the blender. Any suggestions for that, or did you not have the same problem?
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:00 PM   #64
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I bought my sucralose powder in 2001. At that time it was $25/ounce, and I really believe I have a lifetime supply.
If I might ask, were did you get this back in 2001 and is it a rocky powder or crystals?
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:27 PM   #65
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Sure you can ask. Honestly, I wish I could remember more details, but someone posted on one of the LC sites...on usenet maybe?.....that he had access to some of the real sucralose. He didn't tell a lot, but I got the feeling (and his location would tend to indicate) that he had an association with a manufacturer that used the pure sucralose in its product. This was back when NOBODY was allowed to sell liquid splenda, or powdered either.

Now, I think I probably would be a bit more skeptical than I was back then, but I took him at his word and sent him $400 (Paypal, I think). Pretty soon the stuff came in the mail. It's sweet, very strongly so, and it appears to actually be sucralose, but honestly, he could have sold me $400 worth of talcum powder and I am not sure I'd have realized it until it was too late.

Concerning the texture: it is powdered - appears to have a look similar to powdered erythritol (not granulated), but it does appear to be way more concentrated in sweetness than erythritol. That said, it still needs to be mixed with something else to have the full sugar taste. I made the mistake once of using just the sucralose in a cheesecake and it was tolerable, but definitely was missing a dimension of sweetness. (I never knew sugar had so many layers of flavor.)
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:44 PM   #66
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TY, the reason I asked is I got my hands on some of the Tate & Lyle Splenda Sucralose DFF-1 which I believe is the latest formula. It's not like the older powder it is more like very fine crystals but is the same strength.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:15 PM   #67
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Interesting - well, I've decided that the sweetener I truly cannot live without is cyclamate. It is my absolute favorite and the harder I try to give it up, the more I like it!
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:16 PM   #68
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Hi bobo,

I've been using Sucralose Powder since 2003. Purchased 3oz to try and then a full pound from FiberFit for $448 when it was available @$28/oz, have about 12oz left...(a lifetime supply ;-)

Your source is cheaper now at $19/oz, 2oz should last quite a while. I mix 1/2 oz (using a My Weigh iBalance 201 scale) in 1 cup of tap water for the desired strength of 200 times sugar (1/4t = 1c sugar) and keep refrigerated, no storage problems! It continues to perform as expected to this day... ;-)

I like to use liquid Sucralose 1 to 1 with homemade liquid Stevia in most recipies, especially for low carb ice cream for our nightly ice cream parties with my 93yo Aunt, she loves it ;-)

My powder is kept in it's original zip-lock bag on a shelf in the cupboard, no problems with storage in the 6 years I have had it.

PS: I just placed an order for 2oz more with your source to compare products... ;-)
locarbman, can/will you give us your formula for the liquid stevia?
Thank you for giving the your liquid sucralose formula here. I followed the old post from waaaay back before, but could never really get a handle on the formula. I'm not at all mathmatically inclined. I'd always get lost in your math formula (just as I do in your post after this one I've quoted, and before my post here). I just get lost in all those numbers. I think the pure sucralose that I have (got it from a nutrition site, mostly muscle building products it seems.... forgot where I found about it) is probably the same strength as yours. I've had it quite a while, and did try making some liquid back during the old post, but never felt like I had it right. I did't want to make the whole container up like you did with your back then. And I couldn't figure out the correct formula. I want to make up a batch that will be the same strength as Sweetzfree, which is 1/4 tsp = 1 cup like your formula here. From there I then take some and weaken it down to the old Zero Carb syrup strength for some things. (Well, I would.... I do this with Sweetzfree now.)

Thanks again! And I'm so glad you came back!
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:23 AM   #69
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locarbman, can/will you give us your formula for the liquid stevia?
LOL! Here tis ;-)

Liquid Stevia = 1oz Stevia Extract (White Powder) mixed in 2/3 cup water (1/4t = 1c Sugar)
(you may make up smaller amounts using 1 Tablespoon water per each Tablespoon Stevia extract powder)

Liquid Sucralose = 5 Tablespoons Sucralose Powder mixed in 1 cup water (1/4t = 1c Sugar)
(you may make up smaller amounts using 3 1/8 teaspoons water per each teaspoon Sucralose powder)

Pretty simple? No math! Hope this helps ;-)

Georgene,

My sucralose is a fine white powder that mixes easily in water stirring with a spoon...results in a clear solution with just a hint of haze. I have no idea why your sucralose is a problem...I would probably try using warm water to help it dissolve...

Cheers! and Happy Low Carbing!

Last edited by locarbman; 01-03-2009 at 02:14 AM..
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:24 PM   #70
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Yes Locarbman, that should help!

Georgene,
I sometimes have to let mine sit a bit for it to completely disolve (what little I've tried mixing it). It has always eventually disolved. I mix mine right in the bottle I'm going to use it in. I just put the cap on, and shake. If it doesn't all disolve right away, I wait a little bit, and shake again.
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:37 PM   #71
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I had 'heard' the 600X sweeter, but didn't know if that was really true or not. If it really is a given, then that makes the calculations a lot easier.
Here is one of my sources ;-)

Pure Sucralose Powder is 600 times as sweet as table sugar (per this press release from The American Council on Science and Health):

New York, NY. April 1, 1998—The American Council on Science and Health (ACSH), a consortium of more than 250 scientists and physicians today applauded approval of the use of a new noncaloric sweetener, sucralose, by the federal Food and Drug Administration.

“This approval significantly broadens the dietary choices of Americans ” stated Dr. Elizabeth Whelan, president of ACSH.

Sucralose is made from table sugar, or sucrose, which is then slightly modified to make it even sweeter and able to resist metabolism by the body. The resulting compound is approximately 600 times sweeter than sugar, and thus can be used in truly tiny amounts to sweeten a wide variety of foods.

Unlike some other alternative sweeteners, sucralose does not break down when heated. This ability to withstand high temperatures will allow food producers and consumers to use sucralose in cooking and baking a wide variety of foods. It will also be available as a table-top sweetener.

After reviewing over 100 studies of humans or animals, the FDA found no evidence that sucralose would have any toxic effects—whether carcinogenic, reproductive or neurologic. Stated ACSH director of nutrition Dr. Ruth Kava, “Approval of sucralose is a real step in the right direction.”

For more information about sucralose, see the ACSH booklet Low-Calorie Sweeteners under Publications, or contact Dr. Elizabeth M. Whelan, president or Dr. Ruth Kava, director of nutrition. ACSH is a consortium of over 250 scientists and physicians.
___________

Last edited by locarbman; 01-04-2009 at 12:24 AM..
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:33 AM   #72
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An interesting development in persuit of truth and accuracy... ;-)

I did a Google search for “Sucralose Powder Density” and found the following site:

Global Food Industry and Business News - FLEXNEWS
pages/5582/Aspartame/Beverages/Chocolate/Ingredients/Inulin/Milk/Sugar/Sweetener/Water/sucralose-sweetening-composition.html

“EXAMPLE 6 - Sucralose, as Purchased, was Weighed and Found to have a Bulk Density of 0.7 Grams per Cubic Centimeter" (Metric weight/volume measures)

I then used the following volume conversion table to convert Metric to US measures:

Online Conversion - Volume Conversion

As there are 28.35 grams (Metric weight) per ounce (US weight), dividing 28.35g by .7g = 40.5 cubic centimeters (Metric volume) for 1 ounce of Sucralose powder.

40.5 cubic centimeters converts to 2.739 Tablespoons (US)
__________

My Revised calculations:

To prepare 1 cup liquid Sucralose from Sucralose powder:

1c water = 8floz = 16T = 48t = 192 1/4t requires 9216t (192*48) sugar equivalents to = a strength of 200 times sugar (1/4t = 1c sugar).

1oz Sucralose powder provides 4930t sugar equivalence [8.217t (2.739T*3) *600]

Thus it will take [(a ratio here ;-) 1oz is to 4930t as X is to 9216t. Cross multiplication gives 4930X = 9216, X= 9216/4930 or] 1.87 oz Sucralose powder per cup of water to achieve a strength of 200 times sugar

Adding a volume measure ;-)
1.87oz Sucralose Powder would equal 75.7cc (1.87oz*40.5cc)

75.7cc per the volume conversion site = 5 Tablespoons (US) Sucralose powder to be added to 1 cup of water to achieve a strength of 200 times sugar where ¼ teaspoon equals 1 cup of sugar...whew! ;-)

Last edited by locarbman; 01-04-2009 at 03:41 AM..
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Old 01-04-2009, 04:39 AM   #73
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So put this into little words for me. Are we back to 5T of sucralose powder to 1 cup of water to get a sweetness equal to the sweetness level of Sweetsfree?
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:33 AM   #74
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Thus it will take [(a ratio here ;-) 1oz is to 4930t as X is to 9216t. Cross multiplication gives 4930X = 9216, X= 9216/4930 or] 1.87 oz Sucralose powder per cup of water
And who said you would never use HS algebra in your life ever again?
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:00 PM   #75
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So put this into little words for me. Are we back to 5T of sucralose powder to 1 cup of water to get a sweetness equal to the sweetness level of Sweetsfree?
Yes ;-) but now we have a more accurate measure as a basis...lol!

Yes, Kevin, my high school Algebra teacher would be pleased...bless her soul! ;-)
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Old 01-04-2009, 04:13 PM   #76
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There you go again, makin my head spin with all them thar numbers again.

Thanks for the more accurate number locarbman.
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Old 01-04-2009, 05:11 PM   #77
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There you go again, makin my head spin with all them thar numbers again.

Thanks for the more accurate number locarbman.
Mark Twain’s observation that "Figures don't lie, but liars figure" is an important thought to keep in mind.

Mark Twain also said, “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I’m always concerned my efforts may be categorized in one of the following ways…

FIGURES LIE AND LIARS FIGURE
Figures Don’t Lie, But Liars Figure
Liars Figure; And Figures Do Lie

There appears to be a concencess that “Liars Figure”. Guess I’ll just have to keep on figuring…anyway…there’s always "a chance" I’ll be right… LOL!

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Old 01-04-2009, 10:21 PM   #78
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Sounds like a good deal, but I worry about ingesting anything from China.
If there was no china I think the majority of chain stores would be empty and clothing would be too expensive to buy....if you eat Chinese food I think sucralose will be okay. :-)


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Old 01-05-2009, 02:50 AM   #79
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If there was no china I think the majority of chain stores would be empty and clothing would be too expensive to buy

This statement should scare everyone reading it. JMO
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:16 PM   #80
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I'm with Billie on this one. I spend hour after an hour perfecting my recipes. If the strength of the sweetener I was using changed from batch to batch, giving me inconsistent results, it would drive me up a wall.

I've had pure sucralose powder for about 3 years. Because of the difficulty creating something standardized (a la Sweetzfree), I've stayed clear of it.

I put way to much time into baking to achieve inconsistent sweetening results.

Originally Posted by kevinpa
I got my hands on some of the Tate & Lyle Splenda Sucralose DFF-1 which I believe is the latest formula. It's not like the older powder it is more like very fine crystals but is the same strength.
In 2005, a friend was looking for a measure of 1/4t Sucralose powder to the nearest 100th gram…I took my powder to our local Medicine Shop Pharmacy where the Pharmacist determined its weight to be 2.07g per teaspoon (5ml) (or 4.57 Tablespoons/oz) [28.35g / 2.07g = 13.7t / 3 = 4.57T] noting that it was a bit difficult obtaining accurate results because: 1) “this substance is so fluffy”, and 2) “It has a tendency to stick to the spoon”. Just FYI ;-)

Scott, I would like to suggest that, in spite of the "approximate" value of 600 times sugar claimed by the manufacturers of this product (see the source post above), and the difficulty in measuring this "fluffy & sticky" stuff ;-), I believe that using 5T to 1 cup of water will give us the most consistent mixture possible for use in our recipes (suggesting that we all use this formula ;-). The variations actually achieved may thus be considered negligible for our use do to the relatively strong mixture and hence the rather small amounts of it we use...besides the producers of Splenda products (and Sweetzfree ;-) face the same challenge, however, the larger amounts they use may reduce this inherent error factor...

Kevin, since your newer Sucralose product is the same strength (600 times sugar) you could use the same formula (5T per cup of water, doesn't matter if it is a powder or crystals) for mixing an equivalent to Sweetzfree...

And, yes, I’m still sticking to 5T per cup of water for mixing liquid Sucralose…lol!

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Old 01-05-2009, 04:29 PM   #81
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Kevin, since your newer Sucralose product is the same strength (600 times sugar) you could use the same formula (5T per cup of water, doesn't matter if it is a powder or crystals) for mixing an equivalent to Sweetzfree...!

I don't have mine for making fake sweetzfree. It's for experimenting with larger dry applications.
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:33 PM   #82
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So whats the need to make 1 cup amounts and odd numbers?

Why not mix whatever container size of powder with an appropriate amount of water and be done with it?

Just curious
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:32 PM   #83
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So whats the need to make 1 cup amounts and odd numbers?

Why not mix whatever container size of powder with an appropriate amount of water and be done with it?

Just curious
Well, I happen to know that, without preservatives, this stuff WILL grow mold. I suppose that would be less likely to happen if it were boiled, but I used distilled water and it definitely grew mold after some time (quite a long time, but still....) So, again, without preservative, I'd prefer to keep small quantities of the mixed-up solution on hand. YMMV.
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:33 PM   #84
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So whats the need to make 1 cup amounts and odd numbers?

Why not mix whatever container size of powder with an appropriate amount of water and be done with it?

Just curious
Quote:
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Well, I happen to know that, without preservatives, this stuff WILL grow mold. I suppose that would be less likely to happen if it were boiled, but I used distilled water and it definitely grew mold after some time (quite a long time, but still....) So, again, without preservative, I'd prefer to keep small quantities of the mixed-up solution on hand. YMMV.
What she said.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:21 PM   #85
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Hi,

I received my 2oz ‘Quick Sweet’ Sucralose powder in the mail today (ordered on 2nd, received on 7th ;-) It appears exactly the same as the 22oz Sucralose powder I ordered from Best Body Products (makers of FiberFit) in 2003…a white fluffy powder.

Should one wish to make up this 2oz amount into a ‘Sweetzfree’ equivalent, just mix the contents with 1 cup plus 1 tablespoon water. (for cyberus ;-)

PS: I make up 1 cup at a time and refrigerate...no problems or mold in the 6 years I've been doing this... ;-0

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Old 01-08-2009, 10:02 AM   #86
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So 8.5oz of water for 2oz powder ... so its *about* a 4/1 solution should I get a different size container. I'm a scale type of guy so oz and gm don't scare me 8-) .
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:05 PM   #87
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The pure brand-name Splenda sucralose liquid commercial stuff (I have a bottle) is a 25% Solution and plus-8 fluid ounces (sorry, my bottle is at home or I could tell you the exact final finished volume).

I've always figured it's this method (for those who aren't scared of scales and calculators):

Quote:
Many reagents are mixed as percent concentrations as weight per volume for dry reagent OR volume per volume for solutions. When working with a dry reagent it is mixed as dry mass (g) per volume and can be simply calculated as the % concentration x volume needed = mass of reagent to use.

Example: If you want to make 200 ml of 3 % NaCl you would dissolve 0.03 x 200 = 6.0 g NaCl in 200 ml water.

When using liquid reagents the percent concentration is based upon volume per volume, and is similarly calculated as % concentration x volume needed = volume of reagent to use.

Example: If you want to make 2 L of 70% actone you would mix 0.70 x 2000 ml = 1400 ml acetone with 600 ml water.
...or something like that.

Anyway, I figured it as 8 fl ounces of distilled water and xx grams/ounces of the sucralose powder. It's been worked out backwards and posted many a time but a long time ago...

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Old 01-08-2009, 04:43 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locarbman View Post
And, yes, I’m still sticking to 5T per cup of water for mixing liquid Sucralose…lol!
That's some great information, but it's not practical for me personally. As I mentioned a while back, without preservatives homemade sweetzfree is an iffy proposition- at least it is for those that don't use it up too quickly.

My tap water is pretty heavily chlorinated, but even if I boiled the container before hand and kept things ultra clean, I still wouldn't trust my water for more than about 6 months. I've had the same 8 oz. bottle of liquid sucralose concentrate for more than 4 years, so, at my rate of 2 oz. per year, if I follow your recipe and make 8 oz. that's about 7 oz. down the drain once 6 months comes around.

I have the patent for liquid splenda and a few leads on preservative suppliers- it's just a matter of finding the motivation to put it all together. Until then, though, I'll probably just buy it.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:57 PM   #89
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[QUOTE=theislandgirl;11379700]The pure brand-name Splenda sucralose liquid commercial stuff (I have a bottle) is a 25% Solution and plus-8 fluid ounces (sorry, my bottle is at home or I could tell you the exact final finished volume).

I've always figured it's this method (for those who aren't scared of scales and calculators):



...or something like that.

Anyway, I figured it as 8 fl ounces of distilled water and xx grams/ounces of the sucralose powder. It's been worked out backwards and posted many a time but a long time ago...

[/QUOTE

Here you go ;-)

Percent Solutions (= parts per hundred)

Many reagents are mixed as percent concentrations. When working with a dry chemical it is mixed as dry mass (g) per volume where #g/100ml = percent concentration. A 10% NaCl solution is equal to 10g dissolved in 100 ml of solvent. Because the solid is measured based upon its weight (w) while the solvent is measured based upon its volume, the NaCl solution discussed above should be labeled as 10% w/v NaCl.

Example 1: If you want to make 3% w/v NaCl you would dissolve 3.0 g NaCl in 100 ml water or the equivalent for whatever volume you needed).

However, if you want to make up less or more than 100 ml of solution, the proper amount of solute can be determined by multiplying the number of grams in a 1% w/v solution by the desired final volume divided by 100.

Example 2: To make up 350 ml of 12% w/v NaCl in water,

12 g * (350 ml/100 ml) = 12 g x 3.5 = 42 g

So, place 42 g of NaCl in a beaker and add water up to 350 ml

__________

To make a 25% w/v liquid Sucralose (or liquid Splenda ;-) you would dissolve 25g Sucralose in 100 ml (0.42c) water.

To make up 1 cup (US) of a 25% solution (1 cup (US) = 236.6 milliliters)

you would dissolve 59.15g Sucralose (25g * (236.6/100) = 25g x 2.366ml = 59.15g)

in 1 cup water.

Further...

59g / .7g/cc Sucralose = 84.29cc

84.29 cubic centimeters Sucralose = 17 Teaspoons (US) or 5.7 Tablespoons...just a little more than my 5 Tablespoons...we keep getting closer... ;-)

Last edited by locarbman; 01-08-2009 at 06:32 PM..
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Old 01-09-2009, 06:55 AM   #90
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Couldn't "large" amounts of the powder (like one tespoon) be mixed with a fiber filler, so that the resulting bulkier mixture could be easily measured for small servings? (A filler like say digestion resistent maltodextrin?)
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