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Old 01-25-2008, 09:44 AM   #1
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Psyllium Husks and baking

Hi everyone. I'm looking for anyone who has experience using psyllium husks in baking. How much is too much to use and what would be the objective maximum to work toward in a recipe?? Specifically for use in breads!

I'm on a controlled carb, low glycemic index/load type of diet from my nutritionist. And although I have carbs at each meal, the predominance is from veggies with about 1oz coming from a whole grain bread.
I make sourdough (I have my own starter) whole grain breads from whole wheat and spelt flours and use things like soaked whole barley, soaked steel cut oats, wheat bran, oat bran, wheat germ, soaked seven grain cereal, soaked quinoa, etc...but it's very difficult to get the fiber count up to greater than 3g per 1oz slice.

I'm interested in seeing if I can get something up around the 5g/slice area while still being palatable!!! So I thought, hmmmm, maybe adding psyllium would work. But I know next to nothing about using it. How much is too much, etc. Don't want to cause a blocked esophagus or bowel!!!!

Oh, also, I have to try to keep the protein down to around 6g protein per ounce or less, because I'm limited to the amount of protein I can have daily as well.

Thanks in advance!!!!
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:52 PM   #2
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In the late ninties there were commercially available crackers made from Psyllium. They were called psyllie snacks. They were a charcoal grey color but were actually quite tasty. At the time there were a few recipes floating around to make some and I did with some success. The main problem was that as you chewed them, they left a gummy residue around your teeth.
Metamucil makes a fiber suppliment with psyllium in cookie form. It tastes very good, is not sugar free, but it leaves you with the same gummy teeth problem.

Psyllium actually tastes very clean, almost like raw wheat, when you stir a little in water. It is not hard at all to drink.

there is another product called benefiber that stirs into water (or whatever) and leaves no grit or apparently any evidence of it really being there at all. I have no idea how that works! I have bought the generic of this product at vitamin shoppe.
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:16 PM   #3
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Thanks Annette! I wasn't aware of the gummy teeth problem! I'm gonna use it in combination with other grains/cereals so wonder if it would give the same problem? Also, am thinking of soaking it in water prior to adding it in. Guess I'm going to have to play around to see if I can come up with something, huh?
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:43 PM   #4
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I found an old thread on some crackers, they are not what I was thinking of, but they sound good. Might be another way to get some extra fiber.
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...-crackers.html

I think you're probably right that mixing it with other grains and fiber would help dilute the gummy properties.

Hope you come up with something yummy and post the results!
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:08 PM   #5
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Pooticus! I used to have to take psyllium husks in the early nineties with food sensitivities...my dr used to have me put it in my orange juice with some buffered C. I never really cooked with it but could you use it in place of bread crumbs in like breading or when making meatloaf or meatballs???? i wonder if you mixed it with parm cheese and other seasonings?
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Old 01-25-2008, 06:21 PM   #6
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Lucki I don't think I would take it straight...I would be too afraid it would swell in my esophagus! But I think if you went ahead and activated it with water and allowed it to swell then used that as part of the moisture element in bread it might work to help keep things moist with high fiber bread! That way I could even add in more brans. Theoretically! I will try though and let ya know!!! But I do think you could make the bread then dry it out and then make bread crumbs and you would still get the fiber bang but not have the risk of having it swell in your esophagus.

Annette those crackers look really good. Are you going to try them? I'm thinking I might just add about 2-3Tbsp of the psyllium into the bread to start with.
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Old 01-25-2008, 06:33 PM   #7
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maybe letting it "soak" a bit before adding it in would work, like you have to with TVP? Oh congrat's on the new AVI!!!!!!
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Old 01-25-2008, 08:50 PM   #8
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[COLOR=red]Pooticus, I'm sorry, I can't tell you how much is enough, or too much, but I can tell you that if you get too much fiber in the bread it won't rise well. Found that out by experience.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]But if you are doing well with the bread now, I would think that the 2-3 TBsp that you mentioned might be OK... Just guessing tho.[/COLOR]
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Old 01-26-2008, 05:55 AM   #9
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Thanks crazywoman! I can't have 2oz at a sitting cuz it spikes it too much but I'm doing ok with 1oz of sourdough whole grain bread at the moment. It's made with extra wheat bran, a little oat bran/flour, whole barley, whole wheat flour, spelt flour, sourdough whole wheat starter, and water. I toyed with adding a little vital wheat gluten to it but was trying to contain the protein amounts. It rises ok the first rise but didn't do to well the second rise. So this time I will only proof it once and see if it can hold the co2 during baking. I'm thinking it deflates during baking.
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Old 01-27-2008, 04:16 AM   #10
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Pooticus, I was reading a King Arthur's Flour Baking Company catalogue, and they mentioned Hi-Maize 5 resistant corn starch as a fiber replacement. They said it could be used for up to 1/3 of the flour in a recipe with no ill effects. I have baked with the product, and it actually improves my bread with no off tastes. The carb count on the nutrition packeage is high, but the calorie count is 0. I think it is one of those carbs that do not get digested in the small intestine. Anyway, I never had any ill effects from using it, and I am very sensitve to carbs. This [product might be what you are looking for.
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:24 AM   #11
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Thanks Soobee! I will do some research on it! I just read another thread here where Fawn talks about Psyllium stripping the gut of some minerals or blocking the absorption etc of some vit/min...I got some psyllium husk powder at the store yesterday but now am on hold with it. Cuz the reason for eatin the dam bread anyway it to get the vits/min in the whole grains. You know, it's just not easy, right?!

So it seems like we're better off using the psyllium on it's own for fiber and eating smaller portions of the bread! LOL!
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Old 01-27-2008, 03:38 PM   #12
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[COLOR=red]I have used Hi Maise resistant corn starch. I've also used resistant wheat starch. You might check into that as well.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]Kevin uses the resistant wheat starch in his breads (and his cake or cookie flour mix). [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]I've not used both in applications enough to really know the difference, but Kevin says he has had much better results from the RWS.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]I didn't think of the resistant starches before. But they might very well be an option for you.[/COLOR]
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:38 AM   #13
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I would love someone to tell me how to use the hi resistent corn starch I have.

Soobee, you can use it in bread? And you have used it?

I make bread currently with Kevin's mix. . .in general the pita bread dough--it has RWS. Do you use it the RCS? In your bread making?

I must try with some of my resistant corn starch.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:55 PM   #14
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I posted my recipe for bread in the recipe room. I think it's cinnamon yeast bread or something like that. Mine is not like Kevin's. It's not as close to real bread as his. Mine is however VERY low carb and awfully low calorie. I make mine with Wheat Isolate 8000, reisitant cornstarch, flax, and oat fiber. It's a sweet, chewy yeast bread that I love.
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:37 PM   #15
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Hi yall. Thanks to Fiber Gal I had a starting point to jump off and try. I deviated quite a bit by trying to make them "savory" and "not sweet". It needs some tweaks but actually goes great with my homemade vanilla yogurt and the best part about it is that at this point it has totally replaced my Fiber One Cereal (i.e. Highly processed, blood sugar spiking, high compression, extruded cereal with natural whole grain and fiber!!!)

The one caution I would give is, that there is a tremendous amount of bran in this recipe and I do not know about the effects of eating this much bran and what it does to nutrients. Whether it actually strips the Calcium from the yogurt or whether we are properly absorbing everything!!!

Anyway here is the recipe:

Bran Muffins
Serves 12 Muffins
Adapted From Fiber Gal’s Bran Muffins

30g Whole Wheat Flour (1/4c) (1.054oz)
20g Whole Oat Flour (1/4c) (.702oz)
225g Wheat Bran (3-3/4c) (7.203oz)
44g Barley, Pearled (1/4c) (1.545oz)
1 c Pumpkin
˝ tsp Salt, Kosher
1/4c Currants
2 Tbsp Buttermilk Powder (Fresh buttermilk would be better)
1 Cup Water (more or less) (Note: I used about 1-1/2c water)
1 tsp Baking Soda
1-1/2 tsp Baking Powder
2 Tbsp Olive Oil
1 Tbsp Liquid Splenda
2 Tbsp Olive Oil
1 tsp Turmeric
1 tsp Cumin
1/2 tsp Cinnamon
1/4 tsp Cayenne
1 tsp Garlic Powder
1/2 tsp Onion Powder

Soak barley for 30 minutes to an hour before assembling ingredients. Once the barley has steeped, drain it and it into the mixture. I heated the steeping water on the stove to help hasten the soak. Mix all the dry ingredients together. Add the barley and liquid ingredients ( I will be experimenting about adding an egg or two). Let the combined mixture sit for about 30 minutes. Stir in the baking powder & baking soda at the end just prior to baking and bake at 375 for about 30-40 minutes. The centers will still be a little gummy while hot. But let cool and refrigerate the muffins and they will firm up.

1/4c of batter per muffin. It made about 14 muffins. Be sure to use muffin liners!!! Here is what ****** has to say about a muffin!

109
Fat: 3 29 29%
Sat: 0 3 3%
Poly: 0 2 1%
Mono: 2 15 15%
Carbs: 23 57 56%
Fiber: 9 0 0%
Protein: 4 16 16%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%


I will be trying about a quarter cup of the graham flour in place of 1/4c of the wheat bran to see if I can make it more "cakey".
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:29 AM   #16
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Thanks, Soobee, I'm looking forward to trying this when I have all the ingredients in the same place. . .LOL! I'm a little intimidated by your description of flubber, but I will sure give it a try. Like that it is very low carb and cal. And that it uses my HiMaise and my Arise 8000. . .and that it is sweet. . .which I love.
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Old 01-31-2012, 03:38 PM   #17
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sourdough bread wth psyllium

Quote:
Originally Posted by pooticus View Post
Hi yall. Thanks to Fiber Gal I had a starting point to jump off and try. I deviated quite a bit by trying to make them "savory" and "not sweet". It needs some tweaks but actually goes great with my homemade vanilla yogurt and the best part about it is that at this point it has totally replaced my Fiber One Cereal (i.e. Highly processed, blood sugar spiking, high compression, extruded cereal with natural whole grain and fiber!!!)

The one caution I would give is, that there is a tremendous amount of bran in this recipe and I do not know about the effects of eating this much bran and what it does to nutrients. Whether it actually strips the Calcium from the yogurt or whether we are properly absorbing everything!!!

Anyway here is the recipe:

Bran Muffins
Serves 12 Muffins
Adapted From Fiber Gal’s Bran Muffins

30g Whole Wheat Flour (1/4c) (1.054oz)
20g Whole Oat Flour (1/4c) (.702oz)
225g Wheat Bran (3-3/4c) (7.203oz)
44g Barley, Pearled (1/4c) (1.545oz)
1 c Pumpkin
˝ tsp Salt, Kosher
1/4c Currants
2 Tbsp Buttermilk Powder (Fresh buttermilk would be better)
1 Cup Water (more or less) (Note: I used about 1-1/2c water)
1 tsp Baking Soda
1-1/2 tsp Baking Powder
2 Tbsp Olive Oil
1 Tbsp Liquid Splenda
2 Tbsp Olive Oil
1 tsp Turmeric
1 tsp Cumin
1/2 tsp Cinnamon
1/4 tsp Cayenne
1 tsp Garlic Powder
1/2 tsp Onion Powder

Soak barley for 30 minutes to an hour before assembling ingredients. Once the barley has steeped, drain it and it into the mixture. I heated the steeping water on the stove to help hasten the soak. Mix all the dry ingredients together. Add the barley and liquid ingredients ( I will be experimenting about adding an egg or two). Let the combined mixture sit for about 30 minutes. Stir in the baking powder & baking soda at the end just prior to baking and bake at 375 for about 30-40 minutes. The centers will still be a little gummy while hot. But let cool and refrigerate the muffins and they will firm up.

1/4c of batter per muffin. It made about 14 muffins. Be sure to use muffin liners!!! Here is what ****** has to say about a muffin!

109
Fat: 3 29 29%
Sat: 0 3 3%
Poly: 0 2 1%
Mono: 2 15 15%
Carbs: 23 57 56%
Fiber: 9 0 0%
Protein: 4 16 16%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%


I will be trying about a quarter cup of the graham flour in place of 1/4c of the wheat bran to see if I can make it more "cakey".
*********************
hi this s an old post/thread of yours, but I was curous on the sourdough, do you still make that?
I do but using spelt.
f you do where are you at, maybe we can share some tips.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:29 AM   #18
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Hi Maj,

Wow it's really old! I also see I did a typo and put olive oil into the ingredients twice!

I quit doing sourdough but I'm about to start one again and am interested in using spelt as agent. Any tips you have I would appreciate!!! Can you get pm's yet? I see you are a new member?
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:45 AM   #19
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pm's and sourdough

hi there,
great you answered!
What are pm's, is that personal mail?
I have been a member for over 2 years, but I am so busy with studying lately, and I am doing Paleo WOE (loving it!).
I do 1/2 marathon power walking , so my free time is only for my sourdough and low carb/ GF (sometimes, I try to eat very little) loves!
let me know about the pm.
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:28 PM   #20
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pm is private messaging. You send pm's here on the board. But I think you have to have so many posts before that is activated as a priveledge?

Did you start you sourdough starter with the spelt or with whole wheat? Do you notice it jacks with your blood sugar or adds inflammation?

Wow 1/2 marathon!
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:06 AM   #21
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Pm

Hi, I am so sorry to be so late replying.
I do not have issues with my spelt sourdough as I do a lot of trying for my 1/2 marathon power walking.
I generally have a slice every other day, depending if I have proton shake for breakfast that day, I do not ave a slice.
I also basically only eat gluten free(I am not gluten intolerant, it's just by choice
That it makes me feel better to avoid) so the small amount of gluten in my spelt sourdough after a long ferment does not " jack" with my system.
I also strictly eat the Paleo way, ofcourse with my " Cheat" of my bread (mostly for DH).
I also am very struck with fruit and no cold cuts!
I had blood pressure issues and the only way to get off the medication was to drop the alcohol completely and Paleo type exercising!
I am in Canada and can be emailed at morrison plus jojo at hotmail dot plus the com.....as that would be easier to explain.
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:46 PM   #22
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Psyllium is great, if used properly. I've been using it for 30+ years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pooticus View Post
Lucki I don't think I would take it straight...I would be too afraid it would swell in my esophagus! But I think if you went ahead and activated it with water and allowed it to swell then used that as part of the moisture element in bread it might work to help keep things moist with high fiber bread! That way I could even add in more brans. Theoretically! I will try though and let ya know!!! But I do think you could make the bread then dry it out and then make bread crumbs and you would still get the fiber bang but not have the risk of having it swell in your esophagus.

Annette those crackers look really good. Are you going to try them? I'm thinking I might just add about 2-3Tbsp of the psyllium into the bread to start with.
Hi all! I've been taking ground whole psyllium husks mixed with OJ or other liquids for over 30 years. I've also taken it in capsule form. It was prescribed to me by a doctor for regularity and heart health. I have never had a problem with choking for one huge reason - I follow the directions and I take proper precautions. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, just want to get my point across so others can reap the benefits and not have to worry.

The entire choking scare came about back in the 70s or 80s when psyllium just began to get very popular with the "health food" set. The general public was unfamiliar with it and for this reason people were taking it w/o drinking enough liquid, or they were allowing it to gel before drinking. Caretakers were also giving it to the elderly, and parents were giving it to small children (the elderly and children often have trouble swallowing many foods, pills, and supplements) and that caused even more reports of choking. All of this caused a choking scare and a nasty rumor that psyllium is unsafe, and almost caused psyllium to be pulled from the shelves by the FDA. However, the main ingredient in Metimucile is in fact ground psyllium husks and Metimucile has been and used for a long time, without problems as long as users follow directions and use a little extra caution and common sense - meaning, for example; if you know something will swell up when wet, or if you have trouble swallowing, you should assume it has the potential to block a tiny passage such as a constricted or dry throat.

To take ground psyllium powder safely you must mix it thoroughly in at least 8 ounce of liquid (I use about one heaping tablespoon psyllium powder per 8 ounces of liquid). I prefer mixing it with OJ. Once the psyllium powder and liquid come together you must mix it IMMEDIATELY (I suggest vigorously shaken for about 5 seconds) and then you must drink it IMMEDIATELY. And DO NOT allow the mixture to stand and gel. Then, as soon as you're done drinking the mixture, and to be extra sure you'll have no trouble with choking, simply wash it down immediately with more liquid (any) - at least another 8-10 ounces.

Like I said, I've been taking it in this manner for over 30 years, virtually every day, sometimes twice a day. My husband has been doing this with me for nearly 20 years. Neither of us have ever choked or felt as if we were about to choke. I do not mix it with a spoon because it takes too long to get it mixed thoroughly and then it's usually gelling up before it is completely mixed, causing a possible choking hazard or just making it slimy and icky to drink. The shaker method is best, safest, and quickest. You can use any shaker but the one I find it easiest are the kind sold in health food stores for mixing protein shakes. They usually come in 8, 16, and 32 ounce sizes and are usually plastic. I'd prefer a stainless steel one (like a martini shaker) but small stainless steel shakers are hard to find and when you do they are very expensive.

My husband and I also take psyllium in capsule form (when we don't have the ability to use a shaker to mix it or just when we're feeling lazy). I personally take 12 capsules at a time (which equals about 1 heaping tablespoon). My husband takes about 4 at a time, for a total of 12. The key to doing this safely is to drink at least 8-12 ounces of liquid to get them down, AND make sure you know your personal pill swallow capacity. This is VERY important. I happen to be someone who can take 10-12 at one time, in one swallow (of any supplement) if I have enough liquid, but some people have a hard time with one pill or capsule no matter how much liquid they use to get it down. Just make sure you know your own ability for swallowing pills/capsules, and don't take too much at once. And for EACH group of capsules you swallow (if it's one capsule or ten at a time), drink at least 8-10 ounce of liquid immediately to get it all the way down to your stomach.

More cautions: I do not recommend psyllium in any form for people with problems swallowing normal amounts of food, or for people with severe GERD or other stomach problems, unless they first consult a medical professional. The reason for this is people with GERD and other esophageal and stomach problems can sometimes regurgitate the psyllium and that can in fact cause choking. Well, regurgitating any food can cause choking, so anyone who has a tendency to constrict their throat or throw up their food should consult a doctor first. One example would be people with Cerebral Palsy or Muscular Dystrophy, or any other disease or condition that can affect the muscles in the stomach and esophagus.

To be extra careful you might want to be sure to not lay down immediately after taking psyllium in any form. Laying down after eating makes it easier for what you just ingested to back up into your esophagus. Even if you've never had that problem, why chance it?

As far as cooking with it. That's why I came here. I found this discussion when I was considering adding psyllium to meat loaf, meatballs, breads, cookies, etc. to get more fiber. I currently add brown rice, oats, and chia seeds to these recipes but thought maybe psyllium would bring an even higher level of non-soluble fiber. I have not done this yet but I'll try to remember to come back here and post the results if I do.

One last thing. Someone in this discussion mentioned using Benefiber instead of psyllium (Metamucile). But there's a huge difference. Benefiber does not do all of the things Psyllium (Metamucile) does. Both are said to help lower cholesterol, but Benefiber is not known to aid in regularity. Benefiber is good for the health of your heart and arteries, but Psyllium is for the health of your heart, arteries, stomach, colon, rectum, etc. Which some believe can keep you from getting all types of problems with the digestive tract, including cancers. Also know that Benefiber is made from wheat dextrin, which may or may not cause a problem for people who need to be on a gluten-free diet.

I'm not sure if this chat room will allow links, but this link will help you understand the different types of fibers and what they do:
Types of Fiber and Their Health Benefits

Wishing you all Good Health, Happiness, and Prosperity!!
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:03 PM   #23
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Pooti you can PM her. Just hit her name and it has a pm message line. She's been on the board since 2007.

Majomor there is also a thread for tortillia using psyllium husk. holler if you want the link.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:49 PM   #24
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tortilla with psyllium

Hi rosethorns,
I would love the link please please ,to the tortillas.

But I must appologize for my typos....late at night , dozing off!

I make my starter with organic all purpose, as it acts like a rising agent with lots of fermentation. The whole grains do not work well in my high altitude area here in Canada.

I do sometimes add the husks to my spelt bread.

I make gluten free muffins, using Jen Elloffs gluten free mixes..

I am very careful with bran as it is terribly hard on the gut!....there is too much phytic acid in bran that I only use whole spelt if it is sprouted, OTW I buy spelt with the bran removed!

If you read Drs Eades of protein power he has good info on the myths of Fiber.

Kevinpas recommendations of Resistant corn starch in most of my mixes and Oat fiber (not Oat flour) from Netrition in the US, as opposed in canada our equivalent to Netrition is the Sites that advertise low carb grocery shopping in canada.
Why can you guys always talk about Netrition orders and we canadians cannot talk about out Low carb Grocery sites which are equivalent to Netrition, but saves us a wad of $$$ on shipping!....its suicide to order from the US sites for us as they charge us sometimes up to 55% of the original cost in shipping charges!
........ anyways , had to get that off my chest whew!
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:28 AM   #25
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Here ya go and there are pics.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...easy-easy.html
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:57 AM   #26
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Here are a few . I hope they help. There's even some I'm going to check out.


http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...er-recipe.html
I have made these a few times. My recipe is a little different ( no flaxseed) I like them.

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ite-bread.html


This sounds good , haven't tried it though.
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...m-oopsies.html


http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...k-recipes.html


http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ium-hulls.html

I hope this helps.

I wanted to give you this too. Even though you aren't a newbie it has a lot of recipes and info,

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...s-newbies.html
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Last edited by rosethorns; 09-09-2012 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:24 AM   #27
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Psyllium and coconut flour

Hi rosethorns,

Thanks for the Quick reply.
Will try them soon when I take a study break.

I also noticed that some are using the Psyllium with coconut flour and not bad tasting, that's what I made mine with, which I found the recipe from Maria Emmerich blog, they were finnicky to make as I had to oil the saran, but they froze well and heated up great!
So I will be interested in trying these ASAP!
Majomor
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:09 AM   #28
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Correction - Typo

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWTSM View Post
Hi all! I've been taking ground whole psyllium husks mixed with OJ or other liquids for over 30 years. I've also taken it in capsule form. It was prescribed to me by a doctor for regularity and heart health. I have never had a problem with choking for one huge reason - I follow the directions and I take proper precautions. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, just want to get my point across so others can reap the benefits and not have to worry.

......

As far as cooking with it. That's why I came here. I found this discussion when I was considering adding psyllium to meat loaf, meatballs, breads, cookies, etc. to get more fiber. I currently add brown rice, oats, and chia seeds to these recipes but thought maybe psyllium would bring an even higher level of non-soluble fiber. I have not done this yet but I'll try to remember to come back here and post the results if I do.

.....

I'm not sure if this chat room will allow links, but this link will help you understand the different types of fibers and what they do:
Types of Fiber and Their Health Benefits

Wishing you all Good Health, Happiness, and Prosperity!!
I meant to type SOLUBLE fiber; Psyllium is soluble, not non-soluble.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majomor View Post
...Why can you guys always talk about Netrition orders and we canadians cannot talk about out Low carb Grocery sites which are equivalent to Netrition, but saves us a wad of $$$ on shipping!....its suicide to order from the US sites for us as they charge us sometimes up to 55% of the original cost in shipping charges!
........ anyways , had to get that off my chest whew!
Because Netrition sponsors this site and promoting other sites may be considered 'unauthorized advertising' which is prohibited by the terms of use on this site...at least that is how I interpreted the rules when I was gently reminded
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majomor
...Why can you guys always talk about Netrition orders and we canadians cannot talk about out Low carb Grocery sites which are equivalent to Netrition, but saves us a wad of $$$ on shipping!....its suicide to order from the US sites for us as they charge us sometimes up to 55% of the original cost in shipping charges!
........ anyways , had to get that off my chest whew!
Because Netrition sponsors this site and promoting other sites may be considered 'unauthorized advertising' which is prohibited by the terms of use on this site...at least that is how I interpreted the rules when I was gently reminded


***********************************
So does Whole Foods sponsor this site also?......and Trader Joes too, all in the US?
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