Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Recipes and Menus > Low Carb Recipe Help & Suggestions
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-29-2007, 07:05 PM   #1
Major LCF Poster!
 
stephdray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,167
Gallery: stephdray
Stats: 290/248/250
WOE: Moderate Carb JUDDD (Lost first 4 lbs on WW)
Start Date: 7/4/2012 -- 42 lbs lost total
Experiments with "Just a Simple White Bread" for the WPI Intolerant

Kevinpa has an awesome thread (which I can't believe is still not a sticky) called "Just a Simple White Bread."

I've made several versions with varying degrees of success. Several came out very well--not so well that I would serve it to non-low-carbing company, but well enough that I could enjoy a hamburger over the summer whenever I wanted, for which I will be eternally grateful.

Other times, things have not gone well. One time, I tried to use almond flour in a pizza dough based on Carbalose #4, and it was so wretched that my husband wouldn't eat it. That was my fault.

But usually, when the results have been unpalatable to my family, I think I know why. I would recognize the Carbquick Twang anywhere, but that's not the taste that I get from this bread. It's the strong taste of WPI that my husband cannot abide, and so I have set about to experiment. I don't want to flood that already overflowing thread with my successes and failures though, so I'm going to start a new one here for people who want to tweak Kevinpa's wonderful recipe more towards the Carbalose/Carbquik direction and away from the WPI.

I should note that I really don't know what I'm doing, and I don't have any scale available to measure by weights, so I'm really hoping to stumble upon the right recipe.


The first recipe that I tried today was plain old Carbalose #1. My rolls came out looking nothing whatsoever like Jackieba's beautiful hot dog buns. In fact, this is the second time that I've made this version, and both times it has come out like hard tack. So, that batch went into a bag to make breadcrumbs. (Texture: C-, Taste: C-)



My next batch was a tweak of Kevin's #4:
I shaped them into balls, then let it rise for an hour, and it rose pretty decently, but perhaps not as much as it should have. I cooked them until just brown and not a moment more. It looked like French baguette rolls when it came out of the oven and had that hardness in the crust as well.

The splenda and the vanilla seemed to do a pretty good job of masking the taste, even when cooled. The reduction in WPI was probably helpful too. However, the bread was very dense and not really suitable for being a roll. It was almost biscuity. Too much on the Carbquik I'm thinking. Maybe should have replaced some of that with the wheat starch. I dunno. (Texture: C, Taste: B)

The third recipe I tried today was Kevin's new wheat recipe that he just posted for making buns. I made it exactly to recipe and at first, the dough seemed too stiff and it didn't look as if it was going to rise. But by the second hour, the rolls had doubled.

The texture came out with the perfect consistency for hamburger rolls. Very soft, light, and with a perfect crust, crispy and chewy at the same time. Unfortunately, there was still that bitter WPI taste afterwards which was only amplified by the wheat. I might serve it to company, but I'd hesitate. It was the best of the recipes from that thread that I've tried.

5 carbs per roll isn't terrible, but I'd be happier if I could reduce that. Again, I'd love to skew the recipe more towards the Carbalose/Carbquik side if possible, but it's going to be a while until I need to make more rolls :P (Texture: A, Taste: B-)

Last edited by stephdray; 08-29-2007 at 07:13 PM..
stephdray is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 08-30-2007, 10:58 AM   #2
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,116
Gallery: CreekWatcher
[BThe splenda and the vanilla seemed to do a pretty good job of masking the taste, even when cooled. The reduction in WPI was probably helpful too. However, the bread was very dense and not really suitable for being a roll. It was almost biscuity. Too much on the Carbquik I'm thinking. Maybe should have replaced some of that with the wheat starch. I dunno. (Texture: C, Taste: B)

...Stephdray, I'm thinking that the WRS could actually have lessened the rise (as opposed to, say, using Carbalose in the same amount). It seems to me I remember Scott123 saying that he had realised that WRS does not hold water, and therefore doesn't puff up...maybe someone else can confirm or correct that.

I'm with you on the WPI taste problem. When I have a result that's good enough (or a problem with one of my experiments that's interesting enough to post) I'll be glad to have this thread to post on.
CreekWatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2007, 11:50 AM   #3
Major LCF Poster!
 
stephdray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,167
Gallery: stephdray
Stats: 290/248/250
WOE: Moderate Carb JUDDD (Lost first 4 lbs on WW)
Start Date: 7/4/2012 -- 42 lbs lost total
Quote:
Originally Posted by CreekWatcher View Post
...Stephdray, I'm thinking that the WRS could actually have lessened the rise (as opposed to, say, using Carbalose in the same amount). It seems to me I remember Scott123 saying that he had realised that WRS does not hold water, and therefore doesn't puff up...maybe someone else can confirm or correct that.
I'd be interested to know. I'm also interested to know if we're intolerant of both WPI 8000 and WPI 5000 or just one or the other. I'm wondering if anyone has any good experiments to test that :P (They both taste pretty bad on the finger, but then, so does Carbquik.)

Quote:
I'm with you on the WPI taste problem. When I have a result that's good enough (or a problem with one of my experiments that's interesting enough to post) I'll be glad to have this thread to post on.

I should note that Kevin's wheat recipe is pretty darn good. The bitter WPI taste seemed to have lessened quite a bit by the time the bread cooled and sat till this morning. I'll still be tweaking and playing with it to get a _white_ bread, but as far as the taste goes, that's the best one so far.
stephdray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2007, 12:51 PM   #4
Senior LCF Member
 
clyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 240
Gallery: clyde
Stats: 167/118/110 Height 5'6"
WOE: Low Carb
Start Date: Restart 12/07/06
This is an interesting thread. I found that it wasn't the WPI that I was tasting - it was the RWS - so I have cut way back on that and now I'm not tasting anything "wierd" with my last couple of batches.
clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2007, 04:15 PM   #5
Major LCF Poster!
 
stephdray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,167
Gallery: stephdray
Stats: 290/248/250
WOE: Moderate Carb JUDDD (Lost first 4 lbs on WW)
Start Date: 7/4/2012 -- 42 lbs lost total
Quote:
Originally Posted by clyde View Post
This is an interesting thread. I found that it wasn't the WPI that I was tasting - it was the RWS - so I have cut way back on that and now I'm not tasting anything "wierd" with my last couple of batches.
The resistant wheat starch? Seriously? I thought that was tasteless? There's not much of that in the recipes that Kevin is posting is there?
stephdray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2007, 05:10 PM   #6
Blabbermouth!!!
 
Kevinpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 5,577
Gallery: Kevinpa
Stats: 230/160/165
WOE: Low Carb Maintenance
Start Date: May 2005
When I saw this thread this morning I took out my cooking journal and did a cursory count of the # of flour combinations I have tried in the 15 months I have been experimenting with my bread recipes. Plus or minus 1 or 2, I counted 68.

I am sure you will find as I did that every change will effect 3 main things, taste, texture, and carb count and not always the way you expect or want. I wish you luck in finding the one that suits you Steph. I feel really fortunate that my taste buds are not as sensitive as yours.
Kevinpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2007, 05:56 PM   #7
Senior LCF Member
 
clyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 240
Gallery: clyde
Stats: 167/118/110 Height 5'6"
WOE: Low Carb
Start Date: Restart 12/07/06
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephdray View Post
The resistant wheat starch? Seriously? I thought that was tasteless? There's not much of that in the recipes that Kevin is posting is there?
I have only bought one bag of the stuff....and because of your reaction...I'm thinking maybe it was a bad bag. It smells horrible to me when I open the canister and I always think that's what I'm tasting. I really don't mind the taste of Carbquick and Carbalose that much. I really like Jackie's version which is basically #1 with CC milk. I just reduced the RWS somewhat and like it better.
clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2007, 06:00 PM   #8
Senior LCF Member
 
clyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 240
Gallery: clyde
Stats: 167/118/110 Height 5'6"
WOE: Low Carb
Start Date: Restart 12/07/06
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinpa View Post
I counted 68.
OMG - I want to be retired!! Kevin, I love your recipes and can't thank you enough for all the time and effort you put into them and especially how generous you are in sharing them with us.
clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2007, 11:00 AM   #9
Major LCF Poster!
 
stephdray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,167
Gallery: stephdray
Stats: 290/248/250
WOE: Moderate Carb JUDDD (Lost first 4 lbs on WW)
Start Date: 7/4/2012 -- 42 lbs lost total
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinpa View Post
When I saw this thread this morning I took out my cooking journal and did a cursory count of the # of flour combinations I have tried in the 15 months I have been experimenting with my bread recipes. Plus or minus 1 or 2, I counted 68.
I see I have a long road ahead of me. However, your work is really close to perfect, so it's really a matter of my tweaking what you've already done, b/c I gather that you're more sensitive to Carbalose than I am. I don't foresee any big changes. I think it's going to be incremental.

However, I'm willing to try new flours as we find them.

Quote:
I am sure you will find as I did that every change will effect 3 main things, taste, texture, and carb count and not always the way you expect or want. I wish you luck in finding the one that suits you Steph. I feel really fortunate that my taste buds are not as sensitive as yours.
Well, more my husband is the one who is oversensitive. I used your wheat rolls this weekend on a trip and they were great.
stephdray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2007, 06:57 AM   #10
Senior LCF Member
 
oliveoyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 612
Gallery: oliveoyl
Stats: 208/166/165
WOE: Low Carb Primal
Start Date: August 2002
I hate to add yet another variable -- but eliminating the baking powder makes a big difference in taste for me. Sometimes I'll add 1/2 cup of wheat germ and 1/2 cup wheat bran which doesn't add many carbs but makes for a wheatier flavor. Sometimes the bread doesn't rise quite as much with these variations, but I don't keep careful notes on what I do, so I can't say that's what causes it not to rise so much for sure. It's not a significant difference in the rise at any rate.
oliveoyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2007, 09:06 AM   #11
Major LCF Poster!
 
stephdray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,167
Gallery: stephdray
Stats: 290/248/250
WOE: Moderate Carb JUDDD (Lost first 4 lbs on WW)
Start Date: 7/4/2012 -- 42 lbs lost total
I'm actually pretty interested in which flours Kevinpa tried and rejected. I'm told that he has a distaste for whey powder whereas it doesn't seem to bother my husband in the rare recipes I've included it.
stephdray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2007, 09:26 AM   #12
Blabbermouth!!!
 
Kevinpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 5,577
Gallery: Kevinpa
Stats: 230/160/165
WOE: Low Carb Maintenance
Start Date: May 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephdray View Post
I'm told that he has a distaste for whey powder whereas it doesn't seem to bother my husband in the rare recipes I've included it.
I tried a few experiments once back in the beginning Steph where I subbed unflavored whey protein for the wheat protein in proportions of 100% to 50%. Not only was the taste all wrong but the whey has no real flour qualities and the texture was nothing like real bread. I have found on the occasions where I have used whey protein in non yeast recipes it can be used and even prefered if you like the taste but in yeast application like nut flours, I give it a . JMO

Last edited by Kevinpa; 09-07-2007 at 09:29 AM..
Kevinpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2007, 09:31 AM   #13
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,116
Gallery: CreekWatcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliveoyl View Post
I hate to add yet another variable -- but eliminating the baking powder makes a big difference in taste for me. Sometimes I'll add 1/2 cup of wheat germ and 1/2 cup wheat bran which doesn't add many carbs but makes for a wheatier flavor. Sometimes the bread doesn't rise quite as much with these variations, but I don't keep careful notes on what I do, so I can't say that's what causes it not to rise so much for sure. It's not a significant difference in the rise at any rate.
oliveoyl, do you mean a negative difference in taste? If so, of what nature?
CreekWatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 12:17 PM   #14
Senior LCF Member
 
oliveoyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 612
Gallery: oliveoyl
Stats: 208/166/165
WOE: Low Carb Primal
Start Date: August 2002
It tastes better without the baking powder. Let me add that I just made the wheat bread with white wheat flour and it is wonderful. Also, I usually don't knead lc breads, but I did this time -- not the full 10 minutes Kevin recommends, but probably about six minutes. It made a huge, light, puffy loaf, so I don't know why Kevin includes baking powder. I also left out the real sugar and it didn't seem to hurt the rise (I added extra Splenda -- I'll probably add just a little more next time). Without the baking powder it has just a slight tang, somewhat like sourdough -- I don't know if this is what people object to, but I'm guessing the baking powder exacerbates the WPI taste.
oliveoyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2007, 04:22 PM   #15
Major LCF Poster!
 
stephdray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,167
Gallery: stephdray
Stats: 290/248/250
WOE: Moderate Carb JUDDD (Lost first 4 lbs on WW)
Start Date: 7/4/2012 -- 42 lbs lost total
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevinpa View Post
I tried a few experiments once back in the beginning Steph where I subbed unflavored whey protein for the wheat protein in proportions of 100% to 50%. Not only was the taste all wrong but the whey has no real flour qualities and the texture was nothing like real bread. I have found on the occasions where I have used whey protein in non yeast recipes it can be used and even prefered if you like the taste but in yeast application like nut flours, I give it a . JMO
Thanks for letting me know this. Ironically, I used whey in a different recipe this week and it was abominable, so I'm done with it.

(I've been making chocolate chip cookies--tried about seven different recipes so far. Yours using your cake flour blend has been the best in terms of a crumbly cookie, and I didn't taste the WPI in it at all. So now I'm totally confused.)
stephdray is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:21 AM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.