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Old 02-23-2007, 01:10 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by RVcook View Post
...the NOW brand of Erythritol or the Eridex brand? I'm not sure if it makes a difference as far as the size of the granules go, but since I formulated this, I've always used the Eridex brand...
NOW is actually a repackaged product, as are so many redistribution labels. Same way you can get about 8 varieties of xylitol these days...

The 2 main manufacturers/tradenames are Danisco's Litesse and Cargill's Eridex. And they all come in different granule sizes, subject to manufacturers' specifications and needs (as in the Powdered Erythritol vs. the XXX Erythritol Crystals).

More FYI....whether you need it or not


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Old 02-23-2007, 04:23 AM   #122
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There are three ingredients in this mixture that I have never had before this, xylitol, inulin, and SlimSweet. I woke this morning to a distinct rumbling in my tummy (and not because I was hungry ). Although there does not seem to be any distress associated with the rumbling, there is gasous side effect involved also. I need to determine which is the culprit for me and remove it from my mixture.
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:47 AM   #123
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Beat me to it; that's precisely what I was going to suggest, dissolve the sweetener and then use the heat of that to melt the chocolate...

Did you actually do it (I assume you did ) and then let the chocolate cool down, and it wasn't fudgy? If so, perfecto. And the formula from Kevin's Kitchen Lab is?????????????

Yes I actually did it but I now have a question for you. What do you mean by "let the chocolate cool down, and it wasn't fudgy?"

I melted it and let it cool and although it was not fudge, it did harden to an unglossy chocolate. What I did was spread what I had into a couple of mini candy size miffin tins and at the time I did it was not liquid.


Last edited by Kevinpa; 02-23-2007 at 04:50 AM..
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:15 AM   #124
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I'm guessing the inulin is very likely your first culprit, based on my own reaction to it in fairly large amounts (just how much of these items did you munch down on, anyway, in the interests of testing!?)

Then again, Xylitol's laxation threshold (or sometimes just big gassy bubbles with travelling ambitions ) is documented ato 50-90g/day compared to maltitol's 60-90g/day and isomalt's 50/70g/day. Me, I'm sensitive to some degree to all of those, with maltitol being my worst, isomalt running second, cooked polydextrose and inulin third (which is in the smallest amount here anyway) and finally, xylitol. Of course the SlimSweet

I recall you have used isomalt a lot, with no problems, so your sensitivity list probably runs precisely backwards to mine and you don't handle the xylitol, I'm guessing. Sigh.

Haven't got the official laxation thresholds (or heat of solution either) for inulin or various fructo/oligosaccharides, including the lo han glycosides, but sure would like to have them handy...however, some digging and I DO have the idea that glycosides are essentially bound sugar molecules of one kind or another bound to a non-sugar molecule (there's tons of these glycosides in nature, including cyanotic ones...yes, locked down cyanide as in almond and stone fruit pits), and their essential indigestibility as a sugar in this particular case of Slimsweet appears to be a resistance to either hydrolysis or enzymatic breakdown. Which rings a whole lot of bells cuz it sounds a LOT like resistant (in the upper intestine) starch ... a born prebiotic or acts a lot like a fiber, too. Is there enough Slimsweet in this mix to do cause this reaction? Dunno. May in your particular system, adding a new prebiotic/resistant ingredient for your gut flora & fauna to feed upon, generating gas, is what's going on here.

Anyway, the xylitol has the 2nd-highest cooling number on my chart, after erythritol, so subjective (to me anyway) MAY share other properties (and you're used to E).

Hope all this info overload helps you decide what you want to do, and serves you right for being up at this ungawdly hour (out here on the coast, it sure is, ungawdly).



Oh there we go, cross posting again. This one is about the rumbling, in case you didn't guess!
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:23 AM   #125
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Yes I actually did it but I now have a question for you. What do you mean by "let the chocolate cool down, and it wasn't fudgy?"

I melted it and let it cool and although it was not fudge, it did harden to an unglossy chocolate. What I did was spread what I had into a couple of mini candy size miffin tins and at the time I did it was not liquid.
Oy, I'm going to have to get stronger reading glasses, or my eyes are just weak at this hour (hey, it's DARK out here).

Ok, the original test for me was the classic dipped strawberry...not some miffin tins! Oh, you crack me up, Kevin, you really do!

Seriously, there's some part of me that suggests if the chocolate isn't glossy anymore, it's been overheated or cooked or somesuch (I dug out some huge textual stuff about chocolate, but the bottom line is that it can lose its temper or gloss and snap quite easily, and it's something to do with the temperature it's melted to and then cooled down to...I can dig it out if you like, maybe the melted E was just too hot when you added the chocolate? Gotta thermometer?

Anyway, I guess the test is still easy of coating and (some) glass on the cooled and finished product. Doesn't have to be a (damp) strawberry, but something dipped and then set would do it for me.

My experience with shiny glazes recently just popped up in my head; I think I added something to that besides sweetener and chocolate...just a sec, I'll go find it.


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Old 02-23-2007, 05:38 AM   #126
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Ok, I dug out my glaze, and I rumbled through several chocolate dipped strawberry recipes, and a common thread often seems to be melting some additional fat or oil, ranging from unsalted butter through oil or lard/shortening and even extra cocoa butter, to the sweetened chocolate mixture. I've used as much as 1:1 with butter as the fat, but that was to pour over a cake; took quite a while to set. I'd recommend maybe a 2:1 chocolate:fat ratio, so if 1 oz of chocolate, then 1 Tbsp of fat...

Temperature still matters, but my experience is that if the chocolate is just brought to melting temperature (and I'd do it WITH the already melted E in this case), still some lumps in, but going liquid, take it off the heat (double boiler over a light simmer is best control) and stir in gently the extra fat (believe me, a vigorous stir can definitely add unwanted texture). Then pour or dip or whatever. This should still have quite a bit of gloss at this point, and retain a smooth surface as it cools and hardens. Not truffle or ganache-like...which is about what I can see in your pic, though it may be my eyes instead, dark on dark is hard to make out...

Does that clarify my "cool down and set" wording?


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Old 02-23-2007, 05:43 AM   #127
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Ok, the original test for me was the classic dipped strawberry...not some miffin tins! Oh, you crack me up, Kevin, you really do!
Really I knew I was at a point of no return when I saw it start to firm up in the pan. I guess I am working with too small amount trying not to waste chocolate. It is heating way too fast. Anyway, I will play with this latter after some errand I have to run.
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Old 02-23-2007, 05:46 AM   #128
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Does that clarify my "cool down and set" wording?


Yes, thank you Jude.
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:09 AM   #129
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I am watching these experiments with glee! Back in the sugar days of my youth, I loved dipping chocolates. Did a bang up job, maybe 20-40# total at holiday season. (Can you see how my weight got out of hand!!!!)
Anyway, this all sounds really wonderful.

Thanks for all the experimenting.
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:12 AM   #130
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I'm guessing the inulin is very likely your first culprit, based on my own reaction to it in fairly large amounts (just how much of these items did you munch down on, anyway, in the interests of testing!?) !
Noway will you ever get me to admit I had 3 slices of the pavlova.
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:36 AM   #131
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LOL
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Old 02-23-2007, 07:13 AM   #132
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Kevinpa, while browsing I came across your picture of the pavlova, which made my mouth water. Would you mind posting exactly how you made it?
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Old 02-23-2007, 08:19 AM   #133
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Couple of things pop into my head, backwards (as usual )
  • the cheesecakes and such are subject to hot temperatures for long enough to dissolve the erythritol, the keyword is baked
  • erythritol has an even larger cooling effect than the xylitol (called heat of solution) so dialing up the E in place of the X would only exacerbate the whole cooling issue

FYI!
Yeah, the more Kevin is tinkering, the more I'm thinking...just plain dumb luck on my part stumbling onto the combo that works for me. Until I started thinking about putting this all together, I never even used Erythritol in any application. As usual, I had ordered some and then wondered what I was going to do with it so understanding its full potential for bulking, sweetening, and cooling was never on my list of things to do.

Your explanations make complete sense (especially all that geeky stuff about chocolate) and I bow to your endless cooking expertise...... .
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:32 AM   #134
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bump for Kevinpa
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:34 AM   #135
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Oh, stop all that bowing ... makes my back hurt just thinking about it!

:blush: :blush:
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:51 AM   #136
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Here is a recipe straight from Australia...an Aussie on another list posted it.
Pavlova Roll
6 egg whites (Ready Whites work great)
1/4 cup Splenda, and 12 Splenda tablets crushed
12 tablets of Splenda, powdered for when roll comes out of oven
1 cup well whipped cream and 2 drops liquid sweetener
1 cup strawberries, then sliced
Wattle seeds or crushed poppy seeds
Set oven to 350* (180C). Whip egg whites, slowly adding Splenda till thoroughly mixed.
Cover swiss roll tray with bake paper. Spread over paper and bake about 10 mins till lightly browned. Turn onto another piece of bake paper where you have sprinkled 1/8 cup crushed Splenda or 6 crushed Splenda tablets, and leave till nearly cool.
Spread cream over nearly cool pavlova. Cover with sliced strawberries.
Sprinkle with 1 crushed Splenda tablet. Use knife to lift one edge of paper and roll up.
Refrigerate till cold.

These days, I would use the Splenda Quick packs instead of the tablets. It was really good, and I have not made it for several years. Guess I will put it on the to do list.
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Old 02-23-2007, 12:19 PM   #137
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Kevinpa, while browsing I came across your picture of the pavlova, which made my mouth water. Would you mind posting exactly how you made it?
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Sorry Pam, I was running errands most of the day and just happened to look as I was running in and out.

Based on Nigella Lawson's Mixed Fruit Pavlova (as explained to me by my dear friend Jude only she did a better job than I am doing)

6-8 servings

4 egg whites
1 cup sweetener
2 teaspoons resistant wheat or corn starch
1 teaspoon vanilla
1 tablespoon white vinegar
1 cup whipping cream
fruit of choice(I used blueberries and blueberry coulis)


Thuroughly grease an 8" baking round.

Beat egg whites to soft peaks.
Then, while beating gradually add the sweetener until the sweetener is dissolved and the eggs become thick.
Mix in the vanilla cornstarch, and vinegar carefully(I just used the beater on lowest speed).
Turn into the baking pan.
Bake for 30 to 40 minutes or until golden in a preheated 300°F oven.(mine was closer to 30 minutes so I suggest starting to watch it then)
Let cool and then turn onto a serving plate.(I ran a thin knife around the edge before doing this....good reason to thuroughly grease pan.
Top the cake with whipping cream and fruit.
Serve.

HTH

Last edited by Kevinpa; 02-23-2007 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 02-23-2007, 01:05 PM   #138
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Thanks so much for the recipe. I can't wait to try it this weekend.
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Old 02-24-2007, 11:19 AM   #139
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I'm going to try it too. The pictures look wonderful.
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Old 02-24-2007, 01:35 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by theislandgirl View Post
And the formula from Kevin's Kitchen Lab is?????????????
Mix #2 (1 cups volume & sweetening power)
3 TB Xylitol
9 TB Erythritol
2 TB Diabetisweet
2 TB SlimSweet
2 TB Inulin
2 TB not/Sugar



Quote:
Originally Posted by theislandgirl View Post
Ok, the original test for me was the classic dipped strawberry...

Doesn't have to be a (damp) strawberry, but something dipped and then set would do it for me.

My experience with shiny glazes recently just popped up in my head; I think I added something to that besides sweetener and chocolate...just a sec, I'll go find it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theislandgirl View Post
Ok, I dug out my glaze, and I rumbled through several chocolate dipped strawberry recipes, and a common thread often seems to be melting some additional fat or oil, ranging from unsalted butter through oil or lard/shortening and even extra cocoa butter, to the sweetened chocolate mixture. I've used as much as 1:1 with butter as the fat, but that was to pour over a cake; took quite a while to set. I'd recommend maybe a 2:1 chocolate:fat ratio, so if 1 oz of chocolate, then 1 Tbsp of fat...

Temperature still matters, but my experience is that if the chocolate is just brought to melting temperature (and I'd do it WITH the already melted E in this case), still some lumps in, but going liquid, take it off the heat (double boiler over a light simmer is best control) and stir in gently the extra fat (believe me, a vigorous stir can definitely add unwanted texture). Then pour or dip or whatever. This should still have quite a bit of gloss at this point, and retain a smooth surface as it cools and hardens. Not truffle or ganache-like...
Ok, I made up 1 cup of the above mix. I am doing it in 1 cup increments till I get it right.(This one is darn close.)

In a glass mixing bowl over a pan of simmering water I melted 2 Tablespoons of salted butter. As soon as it was melted I added 3 Tablespoons of the sweetener mix and stirred until I had a smooth liquid. I then added 2 oz. of unsweetened hershey's chocolate and stirred until the grit was almost gone and then removed it from the heat and stirred it until the chocolate was smooth and shiny.
I then dipped the berries and let sit for 15 minutes to set. No refrigeration was needed.

YUMMO!!







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Old 02-24-2007, 01:50 PM   #141
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OMG Kevin, those look so beautiful, I'm going to have to go right up to the kitchen and start playing.

I don't have two of the ingredients (slimsweet and xylitol). So I'm going to have to see what I can do to get close. But wow. This is a fantastic experiment. I'm learning so much.
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Old 02-24-2007, 03:40 PM   #142
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I made some TVP Oatmeal cookies this morning and since I had a bit of dipping chocolate left I decided to dip a few. They set up real nice.



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Old 02-24-2007, 04:22 PM   #143
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Kevin, this time you have really outdone yourself. And they said you could not get chocolate to harden at room temp!!!!! Not only that, but the strawberries are beautiful, and the cookies look yummy.

Now I suppose I am going to have to think about making this sweetener to replace sugar!!!!!

Bette

Kevin, you said
Quote:
I then added 2 oz. of unsweetened hershey's chocolate and stirred until the grit was almost gone
Are you speaking of a hard chocolate, similar to the Bakers baking chocolate, but by hershey? When you stir till grit is almost gone, I am pictureing cocoa
Thanks

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Old 02-24-2007, 04:33 PM   #144
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Ok, I made up 1 cup of the above mix. I am doing it in 1 cup increments till I get it right.(This one is darn close.)

Kevin:
So...when you say that this formula is darn close...does that mean that you are thinking that this could be THE formula...OR, are you saying that this would be a great formula when working with just chocolate (which could actually be the ultimate test of a good sweetener)?
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Old 02-24-2007, 04:34 PM   #145
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Kevin:
So...when you say that this formula is darn close...does that mean that you are thinking that this could be THE formula...OR, are you saying that this would be a great formula when working with just chocolate (which could actually be the ultimate test of a good sweetener)?
Yeah ... Inquiring minds wanna know
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Old 02-24-2007, 04:53 PM   #146
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Are you speaking of a hard chocolate, similar to the Bakers baking chocolate, but by hershey? When you stir till grit is almost gone, I am pictureing cocoa
Thanks
Yes Bette, unsweetened chocolate like bakers although I don't like Bakers brand. Hershey's and Nestles are a much better tasting chocolate.

The grit I am speaking of is from the melting sweetener. If you read back to my discusion with Jude it is best to remove from the heat before it is completey disolved. It will disolve fine after you remove it from the heat and will not fudge up that way.
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Old 02-24-2007, 04:58 PM   #147
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Thanks Kevin.
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:04 PM   #148
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Kevin:
So...when you say that this formula is darn close...does that mean that you are thinking that this could be THE formula...OR, are you saying that this would be a great formula when working with just chocolate (which could actually be the ultimate test of a good sweetener)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conevery View Post
Yeah ... Inquiring minds wanna know
This sweetener mix has passed 2 major hurdles and if I can now replace it in some of my recipes without any major problem this might just make a good premix.

I am not near done playing though, too many things can still go awry.

I am doing test now for consistancy to make sure each time I scoop some I get relatively the same sweetness.

If you have the ingredients, make up a cup or two and let the rest of us know what you think.

I would like more than my taste buds giving opinions here.
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:26 PM   #149
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How's the tummy rumbling Kevin?

I don't have the ingredients, but I'm making up a shopping list for Netrition, so I'm thinking that Inulin will be on that one.
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:30 PM   #150
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How's the tummy rumbling Kevin?

I don't have the ingredients, but I'm making up a shopping list for Netrition, so I'm thinking that Inulin will be on that one.
Oddly enough when I back out the splenda to tone down the sweetness it disappeared.
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