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Old 02-22-2007, 07:30 AM   #91
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Ok gang, here is my game plan.

I had thought about testing 4 differents variation of RV's blend but after much debate I realize that it would take way to long to do that so I am going with just 2.
Also since I am not a big fan of stevia, I will be using splenda quick packs in its place.

the 2 are as follows(but may be adjusted before this is done):

Mix #1 (6 cups volume & sweetening power)
20 TB Xylitol
38 TB Erythritol
38 TB Diabetisweet
4 TB SlimSweet
2 TB Inulin
1 packet splenda quick pack

Mix #2 (5 cups volume & sweetening power)
16 TB Xylitol
48 TB Erythritol
10 TB Diabetisweet
2 TB SlimSweet
2 TB Inulin
2 TB not/Sugar
1 packet splenda quick pack


when this is done the stevia people can sub 1 cup equivilent stevia for the quick pack.

Last edited by Kevinpa; 02-22-2007 at 07:32 AM..
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Old 02-22-2007, 07:44 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theislandgirl View Post
Me, I'd very much like to hear what happens to a meringue. Not the dry kind, the still-a-bit-gooey-in-the-middle Nigella Lawson Pavlova style...do-able? That would be a 4 egg whites / 1 C "sugar" ratio (or 2 whites and half a cup, etc. etc.).
Jude's idea sounded like a great start.

I was impressed with how well this work with a meringue.

I will report later on the taste test.

Test 1 Mix #2 (very nice sugary meringue texture)







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Old 02-22-2007, 08:21 AM   #93
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Ok here it is, meringue topped with blueberry coulis, blueberries and whipped cream.

This is really light, yummy and very rich.

No cooling effect but it is very sweet. I may end up adjusting the sweetness down a touch.

BTW Jude, its still-a-bit-gooey-in-the-middle per your request.

I will make another later with mix #1.

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Old 02-22-2007, 08:33 AM   #94
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Please don't anyone forget that Xylitol can be toxic to dogs. I liked it very much, but no longer use it, cause my little dog likes to sample everything we eat. Joan
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Old 02-22-2007, 08:41 AM   #95
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Please don't anyone forget that Xylitol can be toxic to dogs. I liked it very much, but no longer use it, cause my little dog likes to sample everything we eat. Joan
Joan I have 2 dogs and would no more give them something made with Xylitol as I would chocolate which is just as toxic to dogs but I would never stop eating chocolate just because my dogs can't eat it.
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Old 02-22-2007, 08:51 AM   #96
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Darn, looks like another hit! Kevin, how do you do it?
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Old 02-22-2007, 09:20 AM   #97
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I eat chocolate too Kevin. My little dog understands he can't have it. But when I make banana bread, or cookies, or something he can have, it's just easy to sub for the Xylitol instead of always telling him no. He only gets small bites, but I guess he is somewhat spoiled. lol I just wanted to make sure everyone knows about Xylitol's danger to dogs. Joan
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:01 AM   #98
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I'm so excited and grateful that you're doing this, Kevin.

I know Erythritol's carb-count is virtually zero, and some people don't even count it. But I'm more iffy on the other ingredients of this mix--I have no idea how some of them stack up nutritionally.

I'm really eager to know how the tests work out and what the tweaked counts of blend #1 and blend #2 end up being.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:22 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by stephdray View Post
I'm really eager to know how the tests work out and what the tweaked counts of blend #1 and blend #2 end up being.
Steph, I am testing these blends to see how they work as a pre-mix for taste and texture but I really have no clue what the "counts" are for these blends. The s/a's that go into these blends are for the most part the better and the lowest of those availible but I will not have a guess of the counts when I am finished. I am sorry if that is what you were expecting.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:39 AM   #100
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Steph, I am testing these blends to see how they work as a pre-mix for taste and texture but I really have no clue what the "counts" are for these blends. The s/a's that go into these blends are for the most part the better and the lowest of those availible but I will not have a guess of the counts when I am finished. I am sorry if that is what you were expecting.
Yes, of course that's what I was expecting. You are my kitchen slave, and I demand that you bake according to my specifications, and do all my math for me.

I'll do the research and see if I can figure it out after you're done. I just was wondering offhand if you knew because I don't yet have some of these products in my pantry. Some of them, yes! But not all of them.
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:24 PM   #101
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Kevin, so I have this strait--isomalt counters the re-crystallization tendencies of erythritol, but not the latter's cooling effect? And the cooling SAs that you are referring to are erythritol and xylitol?
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Old 02-22-2007, 01:37 PM   #102
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Kevin, so I have this strait--isomalt counters the re-crystallization tendencies of erythritol, but not the latter's cooling effect? And the cooling SAs that you are referring to are erythritol and xylitol?
re-crystallization causes the so called cooling effect and the isomalt helps counter that crystallization but I believe the inulin and gums do most of the work because without them the cooling effect is still there.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:04 PM   #103
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Okay, since you asked, a test: melt unsweetened chocolate, then sweeten to taste with blend. What happens to the texture of the chocolate? Any grittiness? What about flavor? Any bitterness?Ginny
I performed this test on Mix #1 and Mix #2 with almost the exact same results. It took about 3 T. of sweetener and 2 oz. of unsweetened chocolate to reach a semi-sweet level. At this point there was no bitterness just a nice chocolate bite. The downside was a distinct grittiness and cooling effect from undisolved Erythritol. 3 to 5 minutes more over medium low heat turned the mixture into a fudge consistancy for the most part smooth but still with a bit of grittiness to it. It still had a pleasent taste with minimial cooling effect to it from the undisolved Erythritol.

You can see the undisolved Erythritol in the following picture.



I plan to repeat this test tomorrow using a double boiler.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:08 PM   #104
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I've been gone these past two days but just HAD to stop in to see how things were going with the experiments.

Kevin: I'm really pleased with the adjustments you've made to this blend. Other than the meringue, were you able to try anything else with it? I'm not exactly sure, but I believe that you might also be able to "melt" (caramelize?) this and use it that way also. I have no need to do this, but it might be worth pursuing.

Quote:
re-crystallization causes the so called cooling effect and the isomalt helps counter that crystallization but I believe the inulin and gums do most of the work because without them the cooling effect is still there.
If this is the case, then if the blend is still too sweet, how about dialing down the isomalt a bit and to make up for the bulk that is lost, increase the E?

As far as grittiness, I've never found that to be an issue when I've baked with it. Even my creamiest cheesecakes came out with an excellent silky texture - NO grittiness...NO cooling effect.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:09 PM   #105
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Thanks, Kevin. Seems you're on the right road with the chocolate. Yes, Jude had it right about what I'd want in a chocolate - something that will harden back up with no bitterness or grittiness. A tough order. Of course, you could always come up with a rich and yummy hot fudge sauce, too ...

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Old 02-22-2007, 05:13 PM   #106
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I performed this test on Mix #1 and Mix #2 with almost the exact same results. It took about 3 T. of sweetener and 2 oz. of unsweetened chocolate to reach a semi-sweet level. At this point there was no bitterness just a nice chocolate bite. The downside was a distinct grittiness and cooling effect from undisolved Erythritol. 3 to 5 minutes more over medium low heat turned the mixture into a fudge consistancy for the most part smooth but still with a bit of grittiness to it. It still had a pleasent taste with minimial cooling effect to it from the undisolved Erythritol.
Ooops...you were posting at the same time I was.

I have a question for you. Are you using the NOW brand of Erythritol or the Eridex brand? I'm not sure if it makes a difference as far as the size of the granules go, but since I formulated this, I've always used the Eridex brand. Do you think this is a possibility?
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:17 PM   #107
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Donna, I see no issues with either of these mixes when it comes to baking, the oven temp is enough to disolve the Erythritol without re-crystallization. I have also made some adjustment for sweetness that I think will work well.

Chocolate application on the cooktop or microwave may be a different can of worms though.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:19 PM   #108
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Ooops...you were posting at the same time I was.

I have a question for you. Are you using the NOW brand of Erythritol or the Eridex brand? I'm not sure if it makes a difference as far as the size of the granules go, but since I formulated this, I've always used the Eridex brand. Do you think this is a possibility?
No, I have both and that is not a factor. I already concidered that.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:33 PM   #109
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Donna, I see no issues with either of these mixes when it comes to baking, the oven temp is enough to disolve the Erythritol without re-crystallization. I have also made some adjustment for sweetness that I think will work well.

Chocolate application on the cooktop or microwave may be a different can of worms though.
Your results with baking were actually exactly what I expected. And I am glad to also know that there is NO difference in the granule size of the Erythritol. I was truly hesitant to purchase the NOW brand for fear that it would throw off the properties.

I agree that Chocolate can be really problematic when it comes to baking, or other creative chocolate endeavors. I am thrilled that you may be very close to coming up with a blend that incorporates Splenda for those that cannot tolerate (or find) the "odd" items.

I know that Scott123 has issues with using the SlimSweet due to it containing a fair amount of Fructose, but considering the tiny percentage that is used, I never found it to be problematic. However, I also do NOT eat a lot of sweet treats.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:44 PM   #110
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one of the reasons I wanted to do this was so I could test my blood glucose after using SlimSweet. So far I have not seen anything that would suggest that it is a problem.
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Old 02-22-2007, 09:37 PM   #111
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This is good news so far! Thanks for all your time and work on this, Kevin.

I havent had a chance to mess with tweaking Donna's mix subbing splenda for slimsweet, yet. I've Been running around all day. Hopefully I can work on that, tomorrow.

I'm very encouraged by this thread though! It looks like it will give me something to use this jar of inulin for! (Gotta love how I buy things unsure of what I am going to do with them, once I get them!)
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Old 02-22-2007, 09:46 PM   #112
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Yummy...no need to rush now that Kevin's on the case! It's really great to see how this thread is sparking so much interest into a new direction with the Inulin. I too usually end up purchasing things that I either never use or just end up tossing because I can't remember what I bought them for...
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Old 02-22-2007, 09:50 PM   #113
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We can always count on Kevin!

I wish I had more time to do all of the things on my list and try all these recipes I say I'm going to make soon.... Then soon turns into eventually.
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Old 02-22-2007, 09:54 PM   #114
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Chocolate application on the cooktop or microwave may be a different can of worms though.
This may have been a procedural problem. In the past I have always melted my chocolate and then added the sweetener to the hot chocolate to disolve it. In this case, it appears that if you disolve the sweetener in a minute amount of liquid (1/4 tsp) first and then melt the chocolate into that there is no grittiness and no re-crystallization therefore no cooling effect.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:10 PM   #115
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Kevin, do you think that using powdered erythritol would help out with the graininess issue?

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Old 02-22-2007, 10:23 PM   #116
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Kevin, do you think that using powdered erythritol would help out with the graininess issue?

Sheryl
No Sheryl, powdered E would only make the mixture less uniform. With powdered E mixed with all the other granulars it would cause an uneven distibution when shaken thus no two equal measures of the sweetener would be the same sweetness.

As with many other LC items, there is a way to make them work it just may not be in the same way as it did in the HC world.
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:34 PM   #117
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What about if one were to measure out the amount needed for the chocolate and then powder the entire amount measured out.

Thanks for all of your work and advice.

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Old 02-22-2007, 10:47 PM   #118
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What about if one were to measure out the amount needed for the chocolate and then powder the entire amount measured out.

Thanks for all of your work and advice.

Sheryl
Sure but the whole idea here was to come up with a premixed blend that could be made up in advance and then would measure out just like sugar.

If I were doing this on a case by case basis I would do it differently.
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Old 02-23-2007, 12:58 AM   #119
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... In this case, it appears that if you disolve the sweetener in a minute amount of liquid (1/4 tsp) first and then melt the chocolate into that there is no grittiness and no re-crystallization therefore no cooling effect.
Beat me to it; that's precisely what I was going to suggest, dissolve the sweetener and then use the heat of that to melt the chocolate...

Did you actually do it (I assume you did ) and then let the chocolate cool down, and it wasn't fudgy? If so, perfecto. And the formula from Kevin's Kitchen Lab is?????????????

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Old 02-23-2007, 01:03 AM   #120
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...If this is the case, then if the blend is still too sweet, how about dialing down the isomalt a bit and to make up for the bulk that is lost, increase the E?

As far as grittiness, I've never found that to be an issue when I've baked with it. Even my creamiest cheesecakes came out with an excellent silky texture - NO grittiness...NO cooling effect.
Couple of things pop into my head, backwards (as usual )
  • the cheesecakes and such are subject to hot temperatures for long enough to dissolve the erythritol, the keyword is baked
  • erythritol has an even larger cooling effect than the xylitol (called heat of solution) so dialing up the E in place of the X would only exacerbate the whole cooling issue

FYI!
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