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Old 11-20-2006, 09:25 PM   #1
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Erythritol and Conversions

Hello,

My original question was how much erythritol should I use in place of 1 cup of sugar. Now, after reading some the posts here, I see my question will have to change to how much "powdered erythritol" and poly D should I use in place of 1 cup of sugar when baking cookies, brownies, or cakes?

I can't tolerate xylitol--only in gum--and other SA. They give me the obvious symptoms. I also use a very good stevia powder that has absolutely no bitter or licorice aftertaste. It's from KAL and it's called "Pure Stevia Organic Extract." Made me a believer in stevia again. Great stuff.

Anyway, I don't use any of the chemical sugars for health reasons. So, I can play around with erythritol, stevia, and poly D for baking. In the above question, the reason why I'm using a cup of sugar as the standard is because many recipes seem to use that amount or a multiple of it.

Any ideas?

Oh yeah, I apologize if this question has been asked before but I couldn't find an erythritol--poly D conversion chart.

Thanks for any help you can give me. Hopefully I can make a nice pumpkin pie and other goodies this Thanksgiving with your help.
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Old 11-22-2006, 05:48 AM   #2
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Hello Subject 117 and welcome to the forum!

I'll be happy to help you come up with a formula, but... I just spent about an hour trying to track down the conversion info for the KAL Pure Stevia Organic Extract and I can't seem to come up with anything. Without knowing how the extract compares in sweetness to sugar, there's not much I can do for you.

I'm hoping that the conversion info will be on the label, but I have my doubts. You'll probably need to call the company. Here is the contact info:

For questions and comments about products:
Phone: (800) 579-4665
Email: products@nutraceutical.com

I'd call them myself, but at the moment, I've got too much going on. Sorry.
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Old 11-22-2006, 01:39 PM   #3
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Scott,

Thanks for going out of your way to assist me. That was very thoughtful of you. I know you must have your hands full answering posts and getting ready for Thanksgiving.

I called Nutraceutical Corp. and they said that for any conversion information, I should go to this site:

http://www.cookingwithstevia.com/ste...ion_chart.html

Even though they didn't have their own conversion chart, they said it applies to this product. So they say.

On my bottle, it says it supplies 80% Steviosides. A scooper is supplied that's like an eighth of an inch in diameter. Reminds me of a spoon for a small doll. Anyway, I use two scoops for my tea and it pretty sweet for me. Serving size per scoop is 42mg and the bottle contains about 905 servings.

With that said, I know a little goes a long way with this particular brand.

Upon reading a few of the PolyD recipes, I've been able to establish a rough pattern. I noticed for every cup of PolyD, people would use 1/2 of Erythritol AND another sugar substitute that would be the equivalent of a range of measures beginning at 1/2 cup to 1 cup, depending on the recipe being used. So, for example, I would see the third sugar substitute supplying the equivalent of 1/2 or 1/3 or a full cup of sugar. Does this sound right to you?

If it does, I guess I need a way of making a sugar combo of Erythritol and Stevia with PolyD. Or, just PolyD and Erythritol or PolyD and Stevia. I'll be using it only for baking cookies, brownies, cakes, pies, and maybe bread one day.

Enjoy the holiday.
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Old 11-22-2006, 04:21 PM   #4
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The little scoop that came with your stevia is 1/32 of a tsp and 80% is a standard strength of stevia sweetening power. A full tsp is supposed to be equivalent to 1 cup of sugar.
For each cup of sugar you are replacing, I would try the following:

1/2 cup polyd
1/4 cup erythritol
1/4 to 1/2 tsp stevia powder extract

Start out with only 1/4 tsp of stevia and work up to 1/2 tsp if it isn't sweet enough.
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Old 11-22-2006, 05:03 PM   #5
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Bev-Ann,

Thanks so much for the formula. I want to try it out on pumpkin pie. I'll let you know.
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:14 PM   #6
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Okay, here are my results. I made some Orange Anise Biscotti with the formula you suggested. I used 1/4 tsp of stevia powder extract which was enough for my level of sweetness.

I made the error of not melting the PolyD which made it next to impossible for my hand mixer to eliminate the PolyD lumps. Solved this problem by using a double boiler. Tell me, I know the PolyD prevents the "cooling" effect of Erythritol but does it affect the other ingredients in a recipe enough that adjustments have to be made? For example, reducing baking powder or soda or using less or more flour, etc.

Using the above formula, I will have to come up with equivalents for 3/4 and 1/2 cups sugar.

Now on to the pumpkin pie!
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:24 AM   #7
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I never have to adjust the dry ingredients when using polyd but I have one recipe that has only water and canola oil for the wet ingredients and the polyd kept it from cooking properly. In that recipe, I reduced the polyd by half and it worked out. In recipes that have dairy and eggs, I don't have to adjust it.

Last edited by Bev-Ann; 11-25-2006 at 07:31 AM..
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Old 11-26-2006, 04:25 PM   #8
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The pumpkin pie came out a bit too sweet for my taste. I know this lies with how much stevia powder I used. Another thing is, the pie filling leaked over the sides which has never happened to me before. I'm pretty sure it was the stevia because when I sweetened some seltzer water with stevia, the liquid would foam too much and when it subsided the amount of liquid I poured in was reduced to half!

I think I just want to stick with erythritol and PolyD. At this point, I don't care about the expense. Thing is I need to use 1 and 1/3 cup of erythritol to equal 1 cup of sugar. So, how much polyD would I need to add? Would that amount of polyD affect the recipe's texture and flavor as a whole?

Thanks again.
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:51 PM   #9
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You wouldn't need any polyd at all. Polyd is only used for texture and you'll get that from the amount of erythritol you're using.
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Old 11-26-2006, 07:11 PM   #10
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I thought I needed to use PolyD to prevent the "cooling effect" of erythritol. That's the only reason why I even bother with PolyD, to be honest with you. Maybe I'm using the wrong thing. What stops the cooling effect of erythritol?

Thanks again.
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Old 11-26-2006, 08:55 PM   #11
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Yes, polyd in a high enough quantity would stop the cooling effect but you'd need at least the same amount as the erythritol. So if you're going to use 1 1/3 cups erythritol per each cup of sugar, you'll be using 2 2/3 cups total of polyd and erythritol. Your baked goods will not cook properly...they'll just turn into a syrup.
My recommendation is to try to find something to replace the stevia instead. Continue to use 1/4 cup erythritol and 1/2 cup polyd per cup of sugar being replaced, but use 1/4 cup Splenda equivalent or some other sweetener in place of the stevia.
BTW, I've never seen stevia cause foaming problems. Are you sure that's what caused your pumpkin filling to bubble over? What other ingredients are in it?
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Old 11-27-2006, 02:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subject 117 View Post
Even though they didn't have their own conversion chart, they said it applies to this product. So they say.
Hmmmm... as much as it sounds like KAL is one of the better tasting brands of stevia, I'm not at all impressed by their customer service. Not having a conversion chart for their particular product is very bad business, imo.

Anyway... it sounds like your experiments so far have yielded mixed results. I hope that they didn't impact your holiday too adversely.

I addressed the polyd assimilation issue in the other thread. For biscotti, I'd go with the dry ingredient technique and for pumpkin pie, I would definitely make a syrup.

A polyd/erythritol sugar sub will not work. Sorry. You've got to have a high intensity sweetener in there to make up for the missing sweetness. I wouldn't give up on the stevia yet. If you can't use splenda, stevia is pretty all you've got. Because of the generic conversion info, you'll probably need to adjust the sweetness level in each recipe, but I would use this as a jumping off point:

For 1 cup sugar

2/3 cup polyd
1/2 cup erythritol (1 C. powdered)
1/4 tsp stevia powder extract

This mix has a very large ratio of erythritol to polyd. Because of this, I would always pre-powder the erythritol in baked goods (or purchase powdered E) in the hopes the the powdered E will be less likely to re-crystallize.

Even with stevia, this mix is far from ideal. Are you absolutely certain as to your intolerance of all non erythritol sugar alcohols? Isomalt affects you? Sorbitol? Does xylitol bother you in very small amounts? Have you attempted to build up a tolerance to SAs by having a little bit each day? One more SA, even in very small quantities, would help your sweetening mix immeasurably.

If SAs are completely off the table, even in small amounts, you might want to consider a very small amount of fructose. I'm very vocal about my dislike of fructose and it's associated health risks, but... the sweeteners you're working with are just not enough to make a viable sweetening mix, and, in very small amounts, fructose will be safe to ingest.
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Old 11-27-2006, 03:38 PM   #13
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To be honest with you, I can't say I've tried isomalt. I do have a bag of xylito and it gave me gas. I have no problem with it in chewing gum. Maltitol in chocolate gives me some gas. I agree with the fructose problem. If I had to use something else, it would either be agave syrup or brown rice syrup.

It could be that the 10% sweeteness in polyD helped to contribute to the overly sweet pumpkin pie. I think I will have to start with a 1/8 tsp of stevia since I used 1/4 tsp before.

KAL is wrong for not having a conversion chart but I got to say it's the best one out there in terms of taste. Before I tried the KAL, I didn't use stevia but once in the 90's and then I stopped. I have no tolerance for that funky bitter licorice aftertaste. KAL fits the bill despite their shortcomings.

I'll do another batch of biscotti and let you know.

Thanks.
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Old 11-27-2006, 04:01 PM   #14
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Personally, that much stevia would make something way too sweet for me. I figure 1/8 t to equal 1/2 c sweetener, and sometimes that is a trifle sweet when mixed with other subs. I really don't think my taste buds have gotten that out of wack from eating low carb!!!
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Old 11-28-2006, 03:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
A polyd/erythritol sugar sub will not work. Sorry. You've got to have a high intensity sweetener in there to make up for the missing sweetness.
Scott, I don't get it. Netrition told me I would have to use 1 and 1/3 cuy of Erythritol to equal 1 cup of sugar. If I put that amount in a recipe with, say, a 1/2 cup of PolyD, wouldn't that solve the sweetness issue? Or do I still need a third sweetener? My main goal is to remove "cooling effect" of Erythritol. Second is the sweetness. I don't have a big sweet tooth.

Thanks.
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Old 11-28-2006, 04:15 PM   #16
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Scott, I don't get it. Netrition told me I would have to use 1 and 1/3 cuy of Erythritol to equal 1 cup of sugar. If I put that amount in a recipe with, say, a 1/2 cup of PolyD, wouldn't that solve the sweetness issue? Or do I still need a third sweetener? My main goal is to remove "cooling effect" of Erythritol. Second is the sweetness. I don't have a big sweet tooth.

Thanks.
Let me take a stab at this 117.

It is true that 1 1/3 cups erythritol will give the equivilent sweetness of 1 cup of sugar.

It is also true that it would take about 1/2 cup of polyD to negate the cooling effect of that much erythritol.

Now here is were things go awry..... 1 1/3 cups of erythritol plus 1/2 cup polyD does not give you equal texture to that of 1 cup of sugar.

Concidering that, the thing you are try to make will not come out as you expect. The sweetness may be right.....but the texture will not be.

Is that about right Scott?

Last edited by Kevinpa; 11-28-2006 at 04:16 PM..
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Old 11-28-2006, 05:27 PM   #17
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I hadn't considered that. So increasing the amount of PolyD won't help either. I guess I'll have to work with the stevia then.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Always learning.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:00 PM   #18
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Kevin, you're half right

1/2 C. of polyd won't negate the cooling effect of 1 1/3 C. of erythritol.

The cooling effect of erythritol is directly proportional to the quantity of polyd it's combined with. 2 parts polyd to 1 part erythritol (2/3 C. polyd + 1/3 C. erythritol) is a safe ratio. As you increase the erythritol, cooling becomes a far greater concern. I've done tests with 1 part polyd to 1 part erythritol syrups- the resulting crystallization/cooling effect wasn't off the chart, but it was substantial. 1 part polyd to 2 parts erythritol (1/2 C. polyd + 1 C. erythritol) will be cooling city/inedible. 2:1 is the magic ratio when dealing with polyd/e. Higher than that and you're asking for trouble.

1 1/3 C. erythritol plus 1/2 C. polyd equals the texture of about 1 2/3 C. sugar- quite a bit more than a cup. Both polyd, and, to a lesser extent, erythritol, are sweetness deficient. Using these two ingredients, by the time you reach a cup's worth of sweetness, you'll have way too much bulk/sugary texture. Hence the need for high intensity sweeteners like stevia.

117, since you seem to be okay with a small amount of xylitol in chewing gum, I'd try adding a small amount to your mix and seeing how you tolerate it.

I've also taken your/Bette's advice to scale back on the stevia

Here's how I'd approach it:

For 1 cup sugar

1/2 cup polyd
1/2 cup erythritol (1 C. powdered)
1/16 tsp stevia powder extract
2 T. xylitol (1/4 C. powdered)

Last edited by scott123; 11-29-2006 at 12:22 PM..
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:08 PM   #19
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Okay, I understand now. I'm sure I can deal with such a small amount of xylitol. I chew about six pieces per day which resemble chiclets. I use the powdered version from Netrition. Will let you know.
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:12 PM   #20
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Kevin, you're half right
Well the one truism I can be sure of is that when I get to mixtures that are that high concentration of polyD ......I search for another solution.
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