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Old 04-16-2006, 10:02 AM   #91
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To clarify, I used about 2 TBSP of VWG and 1/4 cup of WPI. I had to use extra carbalose when kneading because WPI makes it a lot stickier.
And yes, I'll report tonight, after the traditional easter pizza.
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Old 04-16-2006, 07:26 PM   #92
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And here are the results of the latest experiment:
The outcome was great. The look, the texture and the taste were my best low carb pizza yet...this is using about 1/4 cup of WPI 5000(wheat protein isolate) and 2 TBSP of vital what gluten(instead of all gluten) in addition to the usual suspects of polydextrose, resistant starch, and carbalose. On the final stretch out, it was on the verge of(and very slightly did) tear, so I suppose using WPI 5000 instead of vital gluten would make the product more prone to tearing? ..In previous pizzas I had no problem at all with tearing. And at the start, kneading it, it was a lot stickier and harder to work with than prior attemps, and needed extra carbalose, a little at a time, so I could "negotiate" with it.
All that aside, while it still wasn't quite New Jersey pizza, it was my closest yet, and really remarkable considering how different the ingredients are.
And I am no master at working with wheat protein isolate; it's frustrating and a pain in the butt. I suppose continuing to use it will make it easier, but I have to weigh how much better the product is against the increased difficulty in making the pizza...
But all in all, this was my best low carb pizza yet and it's delicious, and does everything a good East coast pizza is supposed to do. Now it just needs to hide itself so I don't eat the whole thing.
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Old 04-18-2006, 12:27 PM   #93
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ira500:

Glad to hear about your success!!! Yes, the WPI IS a pain, and I have never had any luck using it. Last time I tried a crust recipe, it tasted like a melted rubber ball (and it was just as difficult to get it off the counter and the mixing bowl too! Now at least, there may be hope for the product.

What was your final formula?
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Old 04-18-2006, 12:53 PM   #94
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My final formula was something like:

3/4 cup carbalose
1/4 cup WPI 5000
2 TBSP vital gluten
2 tsp dry yeast( I want to use cake yeast but am unable to procure at this point)
3 TBSP resistant starch
1 tsp poly d
1/2 tsp splenda
2/3 cup ice cold water

I mixed the dry all together, added the water a bit at a time, found it to be a sticky mess so added more carbalose a bit at a time..then followed Scott 123's directions exactly, using carbalose liberally after taking it out of the frig from it's overnight stay.
It didn't burn, and the bottom got nicely brown and crisp but still foldable.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:05 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ira500
My final formula was something like:

3/4 cup carbalose
1/4 cup WPI 5000
2 TBSP vital gluten
2 tsp dry yeast( I want to use cake yeast but am unable to procure at this point)
3 TBSP resistant starch
1 tsp poly d
1/2 tsp splenda
2/3 cup ice cold water

I mixed the dry all together, added the water a bit at a time, found it to be a sticky mess so added more carbalose a bit at a time..then followed Scott 123's directions exactly, using carbalose liberally after taking it out of the frig from it's overnight stay.
It didn't burn, and the bottom got nicely brown and crisp but still foldable.
Thanks SO much! You guys are the greatest. Now I have to drag out those baking tiles I put in the back of my cabinet and get busy.
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Old 04-21-2006, 12:18 AM   #96
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Chicken Crust Pizza

Chicken Crust Pizza

2 large Chicken Breasts
4 Green Onions -- chopped
1/2 Cup Black Olives, sliced
3 Cups Mozzarella cheese
2 Cups Italian Blend Cheese
1/2 Package Pepperoni sliced for Pizza
1/4 Cup Rag˙ Pizza Quick Sauce
5 Medium Mushroom caps -- sliced 1/4" thick
1 Package Hormel Canadian Bacon Pizza Style -- (3.5 oz)


With a Meat Hammer, pound out the Chicken Breasts paper thin.
Place on a large foil lined cookie sheet, with a little rim around it.
Push it together enough to fill in the gaps

Put a thin layer of shredded Mozzarella Cheese on the chicken
Bake at 400 degrees, enough to soften the cheese and bind the chicken.

Remove from oven, and spread a thin layer of Ragu Pizza Sauce on the top.

Top with Mozzarella or Italian cheese mix, and add any other toppings you choose.
Top with rest of Mozzarella.

Return to oven until the top is bubbly.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NOTES :

You can add a small amount of Pineapple, if you can afford the carbs, or as in my case ... Pour a little SF DiVinci Pineapple syrup on our plate and "dip" our bites into it ...

1 pkg of Mozzarella, or 1 pkg of Italian Cheese (mixed assortment) is usually enough for 2 Breasts.
I like to mix them.

Other Toppings: (use your imagination
Crumbled Bacon, Red Onions, Italian Seasonings, Tomatoes, Ham

The chicken come like a thin crust and I've served it to people who had no idea it wasn't a "bread" crust.
It's just meat, cheese, and veggies, and low carb.
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Old 04-30-2006, 08:09 PM   #97
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I am very sorry that I "dropped" out of this discussion. We have been so busy that the last time we got pizza, it was Papa Murphy's De'Lite pizza. It was pretty gross and not even worthy of a cheat.

I need to order some stuff from Netrition. Plus, the last time I got cake yeast from my local grocery, it was obviously "around the bend". Need to find a better source. I'll bet the locak Dunkin' Donuts would have much fresher yeast. I'll try and buy a 1 lb block from them. I seriously doubt that it can be frozen. What do you think?

Ira, was that resistant corn starch in your last iteration?
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Old 05-01-2006, 11:08 AM   #98
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Yes, it was resistant corn starch.. Are there other kinds?
I purchased it from Netrition, and Honeyville has it as well.
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:00 AM   #99
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I'm reviving this thread as I want to try the pizza crust. Has anyone tried using the resistant wheat starch instead of corn--or is there some reason that would not work well? It's 1/3 of the carbs and every one counts to me plus I have that (never bought the corn). I prefer to measure "flours" by weight by I'll try Ira's since it appears to be the latest recipe and weigh what I use.
Could this be made earlier and cooked later or maybe even frozen and then cooked?
I see it says "quickly" add sauce, cheese but I don't understand the hurry--the dough won't be cold anymore after sitting out plus the time it takes to form the crust, unless maybe it starts to shrink back or something.

I saw where Scott suggested preheating to 400 then turning up to 500 degrees and adding the pizza when the element was red---Ira, did you do that or just preheat to 500 and add the pizza? My oven is electric, I have one regular and one convection though I'm not sure if that makes any difference.

Thanks.
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Old 08-30-2006, 09:55 AM   #100
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I did preheat the oven...I think the point is that you want to put the pizza in when the oven is quite hot and not still warming up.
The dough is pretty sticky and not that easy to work with, so I think the point of adding the sauce and cheese quickly is to not give the dough time to re-stick to the board or counter.
What I have done is bake the crust first for a few minutes before adiing the toppings, although that really isn't necessary.
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:54 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ira500
I did preheat the oven...I think the point is that you want to put the pizza in when the oven is quite hot and not still warming up.
The dough is pretty sticky and not that easy to work with, so I think the point of adding the sauce and cheese quickly is to not give the dough time to re-stick to the board or counter.
What I have done is bake the crust first for a few minutes before adiing the toppings, although that really isn't necessary.
Hi, Ira! I've been tracking this pizza (thanks to you and to Scott) on this forum and the "other one" and am about ready to tackle some dough kneading! I do have both the resistant corn and wheat starches, and am very interested to know if (either of you) have considered the wheat?

On hooks awaiting your answer...

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Old 08-30-2006, 11:44 AM   #102
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I'd never heard of resistant wheat starch until just recently.
In the name of experimentation, sure, try it and report back.
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Old 08-30-2006, 12:43 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackieba
I'm reviving this thread as I want to try the pizza crust. Has anyone tried using the resistant wheat starch instead of corn--or is there some reason that would not work well? It's 1/3 of the carbs and every one counts to me plus I have that (never bought the corn). I prefer to measure "flours" by weight by I'll try Ira's since it appears to be the latest recipe and weigh what I use.
Could this be made earlier and cooked later or maybe even frozen and then cooked?
I see it says "quickly" add sauce, cheese but I don't understand the hurry--the dough won't be cold anymore after sitting out plus the time it takes to form the crust, unless maybe it starts to shrink back or something.

I saw where Scott suggested preheating to 400 then turning up to 500 degrees and adding the pizza when the element was red---Ira, did you do that or just preheat to 500 and add the pizza? My oven is electric, I have one regular and one convection though I'm not sure if that makes any difference.

Thanks.
Jackie
I think Scott was saying that there should be a lot of heat UNDER the crust (and thus the element should be on during the early going)--think he said that was even more important to the rise than the over-all heat of the oven.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:52 PM   #104
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Jude, I was initially very skeptical of resistant wheat starch. Since it was a component of carbquik and packaged by the same company, I was under the impression that it had the same carbquicky/carbalosey taste to it. Thanks to Kevin's work with it, I was able to ascertain that it's just as flavorless as the resistant corn starch. The neutral flavor profile and the reduction in carbs make it ideal for this recipe. It's ability to absorb water is probably different than the corn, so that will definitely require some tweaking, though. Once I get back to pizza experimentation, it will definitely be a combining of carbalose, WPI 5000 and resistant wheat starch, possible with a little WPI 8000 thrown in for some added strength/chewiness.
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Old 08-30-2006, 03:00 PM   #105
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I am thinking of changing my whole pizza phillosophy. Real flour . I hate the thought, but I'm thinking one part real flour, or one part whole wheat flour, and then one part carbalose.
As close to the real thing as I can get, make it extremely thin, and treat myself once a month or so.
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Old 08-30-2006, 03:16 PM   #106
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Jackie, one of the keys to light puffy crusts with good coloring on the bottom is great oven spring. This is achieved by intense bottom heat. After pre-heating the oven to the lower temperature, when you turn it to high, the element kicks in and begins to glow. This radiant heat from below heats the cookie sheet relatively quickly. Essentially, you're broiling this pizza from below.

As far as a convection oven goes, I wouldn't recommend it, as it circulates the air for even cooking. Pizza thrives on uneven cooking- some heat from above, but proportionately more heat from below.

As the dough sits/comes to room temp, it gets very sticky. If you take too long adding the sauce and cheese, the bottom of the crust has a greater tendency to stick to the cookie sheet.

Homemade bread, even homemade lc bread, goes stale pretty quickly. The staling process is accelerated when bread is refrigerated. I've eaten this pizza cold the next day and it was good, but attempting to rewarm it after being refrigerated could get dicey. Cooking the pizza, freezing it, and then re-heating might be problematic as well. The strength of pizzeria pizza is that it's freshly baked bread, right out of the oven. When you get into pre-cooking or refrigeration/freezing, you're talking about a different animal completely.
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:11 AM   #107
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I'm trying the pizza crust today/tomorrow (using resistant wheat starch instead of corn, wpi5000, a little wpi8000 and carbalose).
Ira,
Did yours actually rise three times -- once in the fridge then again after you punched it down while still in the fridge and again while it sat out on the counter? Years ago, I use to let bread dough rise in the fridge but I didn't punch down during that process.
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Old 09-01-2006, 12:38 PM   #108
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Jackie, those ingredients sound like a winner.

One thing that I just noticed about Ira's recipe- if you use dry yeast, you'll want to proof it first with warm water (100ish), add some ice cubes to chill it quickly and then combine it with the other ingredients. From what I've read, fresh yeast works well with cold water but dry yeast requires warm water for the initial activation.
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Old 09-01-2006, 04:39 PM   #109
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too late. It's already done. I was wondering why the water was cold--I usually warm mine to 105-100 degrees. Maybe I can remove it from the fridge and warm it up. It's early, I could put it back in the fridge. or I may have to try again. We'll see.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:29 PM   #110
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I took it out of the fridge. My experience with yeast, atleast in winemaking, if it's too cool, it just goes dormant but when it warms up, it kicks back into action. So I'm warming it back up. If it doesn't work, I'll try again. I still have a question about what to expect about rising--how many rises are we going for?

Also, in case I do it again, should the kneaded texture feel like bread dough or stickier? I thought 2/3 cup water was alot for this volume based on my lc breads so I started with 1/2 cup and that felt like my normal bread dough. But since I wasn't making bread, and have no pizza dough experience, I added more water till it was as sticky as I could deal with. I'm just wondering if that was necessary.

fyi--
This was actually my second try--first time I just went with the volume measurements as stated (cause I'm so bad about tweaking a recipe before I even try it as given) and it was so sticky I couldn't touch it without it bonding to my skin and everything else. So rather than just adding alot more flour, I started over and went with what I'm comfortable with--measuring by weight.
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:27 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowCarbConvert
I am thinking of changing my whole pizza phillosophy. Real flour . I hate the thought, but I'm thinking one part real flour, or one part whole wheat flour, and then one part carbalose.
As close to the real thing as I can get, make it extremely thin, and treat myself once a month or so.
Karen-
If you're familiar with making yeast dough, you might want to try this recipe. It has an excellent taste and a nice texture. From my original notes: "This recipe produces an excellent crust that is remarkable close to the 'real' thing; thin, but not hard, slightly chewy with a crisp exterior finish." It yields 8 slices at about 4 net grams per piece for the crust which is about 1/3 of the carbs of my regular pizza crust:

Donna's Pizza Crust

1/3 - 1/2 C. warm water
1/2 C. finely ground almonds
1/4 C. oat flour
1/2 C. vital wheat gluten
1 TB extra virgin olive oil
1 tsp. real sugar
3/4 tsp. rapid rise yeast
1/2 tsp. salt

In pan of bread machine, place all ingredients in order according to manufacturer's instructions. Program bread machine for a 15 minute knead. About half way through the knead cycle, check the dough, it should be very soft and even slightly sticky. If it is TOO sticky, add a bit more oat flour. If it is TOO dry, add a bit more water. Allow to finish kneading and allow the dough to raise one time.

When the cycle is finished, preheat oven to 450, remove raised dough from the machine and roll out slightly larger than a small cookie pan (13 X 9). Spray the cookie pan with non-stick spray and quickly lift the rolled dough from the table to to the pan. Pour extra olive oil over the dough, spreading with hand. Using a plastic fork, gently poke holes in several places of the dough.

Par bake in the lower third of the oven for about 5 minutes. Turning pan halfway around, continue baking another 5 minutes. Remove, top with favorite toppings. Cover edges of crust with foil strips, return to the oven and finish baking about 15 minutes, or until topping is bubbly.

If you try this, you'll probably have to 'play' with the dough a bit to get it to the right consistency, but the results are definitely worth it. After trying to work with other ingredients, I finally just gave up and developed my own. For a once in a while meal, I was quite satisfied with the results.

Let me know how the recipe works for you.
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Old 09-03-2006, 06:22 AM   #112
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Scott/Ira,

I tried the pizza and it wasn't like it should be but it was still good.
I need some suggestions for my next attempt.

I'm pretty sure I didn't use enough WPI 5000 because even though it felt real sticky when trying to knead it, after refrig and sitting on the counter for almost 2 hours, it was no longer sticky at all. That seemed strange to me.
It wasn't stretchy enough either--it tended to tear as I tried to stretch it.
I got it 12", repairing any tears.

Second problem, the bottom did not get crispy. I heated the (electric) oven to 500 degrees then turned it up to 550 degrees and put the pizza in on the bottom shelf. The problem could be that I did not have any real pan I could use so I took a 12" round rack and covered it with quick release foil and used that--that's not going to conduct heat like a real pan would. I also had alot of pepperoni and Italian Sausage on it so that's alot of grease.

I'm going to buy a pan at Walmart and try again (that will be a couple weeks).
I've seen pans that have holes in them which I always though would be good for pizza crispness but I noticed the thread said to use a solid pan.

Here's what I used:
75 grams Carbalose (55% of the total "flours")
16 grams WPI 5000 (12% of total)
14 grams WPI 8000 (10% of total)
31 grams Wheat Resistant Starch (23% of total)
2 teaspoons yeast
1 teaspoon Polyd
1 drop Sweetzfree
5 ounces cold water

At 20 carbs for the crust, it easily fed both of us. It tasted good but I think the texture can be improved. DH was thrilled after not having a real pizza crust for almost a year. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Old 09-03-2006, 09:11 PM   #113
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Made the pizza agin tonight, with minor variations.
did the mixing/kneading in the bread machine, adding abot 1/4 cup almond meal and 1/4 cup additional Vital gluten since it was just too wet/sticky, and about a tablespoon of wheat bran just cause I wanted it to look whole wheaty.
I made a white pizza: ricotta mixed with fresh parsley and fresh garlic and salt, and topped that with spinach and then mozarella and provolone.
It wasn't by a longshot classic NY pizza. But the crust was really good.
Bottom shelf of the very hot preheated oven makes a big difference.
And Scott: For whatever reason the dry yeast rises just fine after being in the dough overnight and then on the counter for a couple of hours. Hell if I know why.
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Old 09-04-2006, 09:07 AM   #114
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Ira,
I tried using my bread machine on my first attempt but it was so wet/sticky that it clogged the machine. When I tried to remove it, it stuck to me and the machine so that's when I started over. I don't suppose you have the weight on the amount of wpi5000 you use -- I realized my 1/4 cup weighed alot more than the package said. What kind of pizza pan do you use--I need to buy one (but can't afford a pizza stone and they don't sell any around here anyway)? Do you preheat the pizza pan at all? I'm going to Walmart tomorrow and see what they have. I'm anxious to try again.
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Old 09-04-2006, 09:48 AM   #115
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I either use a stone or a cheap thin aluminum pan with the holes in it and I preheat it...
As the dough is mixing/kneading, I add a bit of WPI or gluten at a time til the dough is workable/less sticky, so I don't have an exact measurement or weight, but it always turns out to be a lot more WPI/gluten than the recipe calls for.
For me, the initial mixing in the machine is the "critical" part, and is always too sticky til I add more gluten/WPI.
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:45 AM   #116
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Okay. Thanks. I'll get it worked out. I'm a "measurement freak"--I measure everything when cooking--that's the only way I feel I can reproduce the same results every time. That's also why I like using weight for flours--it's the same every time. I know I'm weird.
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Old 09-04-2006, 03:03 PM   #117
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No, weight is the proper way to do it, just be willing to add 10-15 grams of wpi 5000 and/or vital wheat gluten to the machine as it's kneading ...
for some reason my pizzas are more manageable when they have some vital wheat gluten added.

In the next post is a link to a photo of this pizza.

Last edited by ira500; 09-04-2006 at 03:34 PM.. Reason: adding photo
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Old 09-04-2006, 03:32 PM   #118
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Old 09-05-2006, 03:49 PM   #119
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Looks delicious. I just got a pizza pan today and plan to try again one day this week.
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Old 09-05-2006, 04:49 PM   #120
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Your pizza looks so yummy ira500--nice visual.

I like using the pizza pans with the holes in it better, seems to make the crust crispier.
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