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Old 07-07-2013, 08:11 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
I have experienced what you describe to the 't'. I won't tell you how long it took me to overcome it but it was a long time. I didn't know what I was doing but only knew I had to get to the other side so to speak. For all that struggle, I did learn a few things about myself.

1. Carbs are the problem and fat is not.

2. I do not have an issue with self-control but I do have a physiological issue when carbs are present in my body.

3. There is no better feeling than having control over my eating without intrusive thoughts of foods that I shouldn't eat.

The only way I have gotten to this point is to go vlc and stay there. I am very carb sensitive and have accepted that. I have done a ton of reading, listening and discussion on the subject and this for me, is an either/or situation and there is no middle ground. Ketosis is my saving grace.

I love the way I get to eat - in other words, I have fully embraced the woe. I look at off plan foods as poison - which they truly are to me. The long term effects of sugar, wheat and starches are very much a slow death.

All this to say that there is no 'cheat' in my vocabulary. I never feel deprived and I always feel in control. That is quite a difference from me about 4 years ago. I never forget how that felt and never risk going back there.

I am not 'strong or disciplined'...far from it. I am simply determined to hold onto this peace I have achieved in my mind and body.

I suggest reading and studying the benefits of ketosis.
Wow...I could've written exactly this same thing! Excellent.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:18 AM   #122
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i would recommend getting a chelated form of magnesium (like mag glycinate) or another highly aborbable form like mag malate. These forms of magnesium don't work like laxatives (like mag citrate does, where it makes you immediately go to the bathroom).
Thanks for a very useful bit of info. This goes on my shopping list.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:24 AM   #123
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Wow...I could've written exactly this same thing! Excellent.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:48 AM   #124
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I have been following this thread since it started and felt like I should de-lurk. I can't tell you all how important this thread has become to me and I come back to it over and over again.

I have run the gamut of eating disorders for the majority of my life. My mother and our family doctor actually had me on amphetamine diet pills at the age of 3 (yes THREE). It was the late 60's. Even as a little toddler, my mother would hand me entire packages of cookies or family size bags of chips and I just didn't have a natural shut off signal. By the time I started grade school, she would have me on extremely restrictive diets until suddenly she would get distracted and begin feeding me grown man size portions of floured and fried meats, fried and mashed potatoes and gravy...rinse and repeat the starvation binge cycle until I was old enough to impose the starve binge cycle on my own. She made me have my stomach stapled at 17 and that's when the bulimia started. It went on for several years, sometimes binging and purging as often as a dozen times a day. Lots and lots of therapy got me off the bulimia, but for most of my adult life I have continued to eat awesomely during the day then have horrible cravings for crap from after dinner until bedtime. I thought I had a grip, but I'm up 30 pounds since the first of the year, all from night time eating. I just can't bring myself to change my stats yet, but I'm well over 200 again.

I take 500 mg of magnesium citrate morning and night. After reading this thread, I'm wondering if it would help me to start taking my evening dose right after dinner instead of bedtime. What do you guys think? I did buy a jar of Natural Calm awhile back, but couldn't even manage to choke it down the first night. Any pointers there?

I also have a big jar of L-Glutamine powder. Does anybody think some of that right after dinner would help? I also think it tastes nasty, but probably doable.

I know I have adrenal issues and get an upsurge of cortisol and dopamine in the late evening, making it very difficult to force myself to bed at a decent hour because of that late night "second wind". I was on hydrocortisone for about 2 years to help heal my adrenals and don't think there is much else I can do for them. I've taken Gaba, Kava, Calm PRT and 5-HTP with no noticeable difference. I'm just finishing a 30 day course of Cortisol Manager and couldn't see any difference. I do have an awesome doctor who likes natural remedies and is very open minded to alternative therapies. He believes cravings are biochemical, but we have never been able to find the right fix for me.

I have PCOS and continue to take 500 mg Metformin morning and evening. I'm also hypothyroid and am optimized on 125 mcg of Armour Thyroid twice a day.

And, lastly, Rubidoux......I absolutely adore your avatar.
I just wanted to applaud you for continuing to fight the good fight. I don't have any answers for you, but I'm really impressed by your spirit.

My personal night time eating issue was solved by eating a pretty large very low carb dinner. Once I eliminated the carb cravings, I found that I didn't need to eat later. So, while I realize that the participants on this thread are undoubtedly dealing with a more complicated set of issues, I can certainly relate to the feeling of being obsessed in the evening and into the night. When I used to white knuckle my way through low fat, low cal eating I felt like every night was a battle between myself and the monkey on my back.

BTW: I couldn't stand the taste of Natural Calm either and finally just stopped trying. I honestly can't think of a way to improve it. (If someone knows, please share. I have a huge tub of it sitting on the shelf.) Today, I take 250 mg Magnesium chelate in the morning and in the evening.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:29 PM   #125
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I came here because I have been having such a hard time staying on track. I am so tired of the bingeing. Today is day 1 for me.

For those who have tried the Calm Magnesium:Buy the flavored kind. It tastes like a fizzy sweet tart. I add mine to the hot water, stir, let sit until the fizz is gone, and then add ice cubes. The unflavored kind is gross.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:02 PM   #126
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I think CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) is such an incredible tool in our fight. This book was written in the 80's but it's still very good: Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy, and it's useful in helping deal with all types of different compulsive behaviors, especially those involving substance abuse, which food abuse absolutely is by my definition.

The real truth is that we DO have the power. And it's just our lying mind that insists on telling us the lie that we are powerless in the face of our cravings. Finally understanding that point and knowing that when I'm weakest I am strongest (aka The Karate Kid Defense), changed my life and restored the power I never knew I had over life, over my body, over my attitude to choose happiness...you know?

(By the way, ADF=Alternate Day Fasting. I presently follow the JUDDD plan where I limit calories every other day to 500 cals/day and eat a low carb controlled diet on my UD or Up Day. I eat 1200-1400 cals on UDs. All days are low carb and each day I add an eating window in because it seems to help with hunger but more importantly...it's a healing time. Studies are showing that IF and ADF with caloric/protein restriction are capable of reversing many disease states that are mediated by inflammatory hormones and pro-hormones and mediators such as iGF, mTor, inflammatory cytokines as well as turning on a set of genes called the SIRT genes that are sometimes called the "rescue gene" or "skinny gene."

I've had some pretty miraculous results totally unrelated to weight loss.
You are a strong woman, Poot!

I am definitely going to check out that book (I absolutely believe that my behavior with food is about addiction). And the bolded above will be my new mantra.

When I discovered Atkins in 2000, I felt like it had saved my life (which it probably did, even though I didn't lose any weight it took me from being very much out of control with my diabetes to having great blood sugars). And then I felt that way again when I discovered IF a couple of years ago. I can't say enough about what a difference it's made for me.

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And, lastly, Rubidoux......I absolutely adore your avatar.
Me, too!

Your story is so heartbreaking, Emily. I think a lot of us here, and most (or all) heavy people have broken metabolisms, but it seems so stark in your case, I suppose bc it manifested itself so early in life. It makes me so mad at all the idiots that got us to this place where we (our culture) so firmly believe that it's all about eating less and moving more when that is so *clearly* not true. We are all here struggling to figure it out together and separately, but wouldn't it have been nice if the doctors and scientists weren't all stuck on the low fat, whole grains thing for the last 40 years and actually trying to figure this out? It burns me up!

For those of you who have this night eating problem, I'm wondering if any of you (other than Beeb, who I know has done JUDDD) have tried intermittent fasting. One thing that it's done for me is to make me feel much more powerful in the face of my food addiction. I used to think that I HAD to eat at night, like something terrible would happen if I couldn't. I never went without a late night snack. But then after I started IF'ing, I all of the sudden felt like I had a lot more control over my eating than I had previously thought and I started doing things like skipping my nighttime snack just because I could. It was so liberating! I went a long time, like several months with no eating at all after dinner and it was mostly just for fun, because I could. Lately I have been having a nighttime snack most nights, but I do know that I can go without if I want to. This may not be any help for you guys, but I thought I'd throw it out there because it's helped me a lot.
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Old 07-07-2013, 08:46 PM   #127
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I came here because I have been having such a hard time staying on track. I am so tired of the bingeing. Today is day 1 for me.

For those who have tried the Calm Magnesium:Buy the flavored kind. It tastes like a fizzy sweet tart. I add mine to the hot water, stir, let sit until the fizz is gone, and then add ice cubes. The unflavored kind is gross.
Mine is supposed to be orange flavored. I think it tastes like a combo of orange, salt and dog farts.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:21 AM   #128
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Lisa,

I patterned my recovery after the recommendations in Julia Ross' "The Diet Cure". My night eating issues are different from yours --I wake and eat in middle of the night, but I did enjoy a dessert 1-2 hrs after my 7 pm dinner. I'm doing very, very well with it now.

Here's some snips from "The Diet Cure":
If your cravings are triggered by a drop in blood sugar (hypoglycemia), the L-glutamine should alleviate them in just a day. Two 500-milligram capsules three times a day between meals is usually sufficient. For fast, emergency relief of carbohydrate cravings (and/ or alcohol cravings), take 500 milligrams of L-glutamine or more, if needed, by opening a capsule under your tongue. As L-glutamine stabilizes your brain’s blood sugar level, your mood will stabilize as well.
(Ross suggests 3 doses--- early morning, mid-morning, and mid-afternoon Best if NOT taken with food.)

And it can be quick-acting, too. So if you get twitchy cravings-wise, pop another one (within reason--- I think 3-4 total daily doses is fine)

Ross says:
Don’t leave the house without our other stellar blood sugar stabilizer, the amino acid L-glutamine. It can stop cravings for sweets, starches, and alcohol instantly (as I mention in chapters one and nine), by preventing the brain from dropping into the low blood sugar, code red, must-eat-candy-or-have-a-beer-or-hit-someone state. How? When the brain is low in glucose (blood sugar), it can burn glutamine instead. L-glutamine was first synthesized by a biochemist who quickly discovered how remarkable it was in eliminating alcoholics’ cravings for alcohol. It can have the same miraculous effect on cravings for sweets and starches. It has many other health benefits as well. It works fastest when used as a powder. (Open a capsule in your mouth. It’s great tasting.)


For other supplements, Ross suggests aminos, particularly D-phenylalanine or DLPA (for comfort food cravings), GABA (stress eating), and
"If you have low serotonin levels, try a 500- to 1,000-milligram dose of tryptophan midmorning, midafternoon, and two hours after dinner (or at bedtime, if sleep is a problem)"

A few last thoughts-- Ross also advocates getting enough light--she suggests tanning beds and high lux artificial sources, but I'm gonna try natural sunlight because I always sleep better when we go to the beach.

And she emphasises getting complete proteins by emphasizing meat products, and moderate exercise.

I have back issues so I can't do much, but I intend to be mindful about trying to do what I can, preferably in the sunlight.

I hope this helps give you ideas on what you can try. I hope you do well. I'm not cured yet, but I am SO much better than I was, and it feels very empowering.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:46 AM   #129
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While I'm in here, I'd like to report on my progress.
I've had NES issues for a couple of years, with a 30-lb weight gain.

-Jun 23 was the first night with no nighttime eating.
-Jun 24/25 no night eating.
-Jun 26 I had a small nighttime snack and then stopped eating and returned to sleep.
-Then camping Jun 27-Jul 2, with unexpected carbs at dinner one night followed by an inappropriate amount of LC/legal food in the middle of the night.
-Since then, I have had one night where I ate an appropriate amount of legal food. And I was honestly actually hungry when I awoke at night. I have noticed more desire for eating at breakfast time (new to me). And I think I had restricted dinner food too much to 'make up' for the calories I had at breakfast. I'm not doing that anymore.

All the other nights, I have not eaten at night.

My sleep is still broken, and I'm investigating ways to help that (sunlight, vitamin D3, possibly Ashwagandha, which is one ingredient in Cortisol Control). I feel much better. Weight loss is slow, but not truly a stall. I think I'll stay satisfied with feeling better and getting better, and letting any future weight loss serve as a signal that I AM getting better with my sleep/nutrition/metabolic issues.

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Old 07-08-2013, 12:54 AM   #130
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Try the raspberry/lemon....I believe I remember now that my DD hated the orange flavor too. Salt and dog farts....priceless! Lol!
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:02 PM   #131
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I am struggling to stay even semi low carb these days. I too have trouble with Julia Ross's instructions way too much info and confusion for my my carb fogged brain I think! The 5htp and tryptophan have helped me in the past to lessen binges, but it makes me so tired and lazy.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:58 PM   #132
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Subscribing to this thread as I am totally an emotional eater and binging is my main problem. I am also an all-or-nothing gal and once I've blown one meal I wind up binging
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:40 PM   #133
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Welcome Hummingbird, I can so relate to all-or-nothing too. Eating isn't the only area that I do this with either.

I have been seeing a new therapist for the past month. I am tired of not liking myself; partly due to eating but that isn't the only issue. I have been doing DBT group therapy of which my therapist is involved with. I also see her once a week besides the group therapy. I was to try being mindful around paying attention to when I got hungry before eating for the day. I only did it one day and wasn't physically hungry until around noon or 1. I ate, but continued in the form of grazing through the rest of the day.

The therapist was ok with just the one day and tried to reassure me of that. My continued assignment is to try and do that for 2 days if possible. Without worrying about what I eat after that. We will see how that goes.
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:45 PM   #134
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I am struggling to stay even semi low carb these days. I too have trouble with Julia Ross's instructions way too much info and confusion for my my carb fogged brain I think! The 5htp and tryptophan have helped me in the past to lessen binges, but it makes me so tired and lazy.
If I take too much 5-htp I get sluggish, too. I still take it once in a while but never more than two days in a row. It seems to accumulate in my body, so for me a small bit goes a long way.
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:53 PM   #135
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I am continuing to read everyone's posts here. Loving this thread. Day 2 done...
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:50 PM   #136
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I sucked tonight.

I just ordered a bunch of really big empty capsules. I figure I can fill them with my L-Glutamine powder in order to get it down.

I'm wondering if I can put the natural calm in them or if it would be a problem since it kinda fizzes when you mix it with water. I wonder if it would make fizzies in my tummy.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:28 AM   #137
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I do think there is a strong element of physiology involved with ed. I think many of us are nutritionally depleted. It's not "all in our heads". For me, eating tons of veggies, controlling my protein and eating fat helps nourish me on a cellular level...so my cravings have diminished sooooo much!

I think each of us are so wonderfully unique that we must each find our own true path and what works for me, won't necessarily work for you. Also, I will most assuredly be at a different point in my path continuum than you are--sometimes not as far down the walk and sometimes further down the path.

For me, success with ed is really measured not in my control but in my surrender. That may sound strange? I'm not talking in terms of activating a binge. Rather, it's kinda zen-like approach or as I call it, "my Karate Kid approach". Instead of fighting to control the tide by pushing against it, I try to move with the tide and give into the tide, not trying to hold it back.

I used to have panic attacks. They felt debilitating at times. Simply could NOT make myself go into a mall or a crowded space. I would feel the panic attack turning-on and I would will myself to stop it. Well anyone who's had one knows, the "body wants what it wants." I could not WILL myself out of an attack. It only made them stronger!

One day I felt an attack coming on. I was driving by myself and was in the boonies between Dallas and Houston. I knew it was gonna be a humdinger! I'd had it. I was just "done" with them and how they ruled my life. And I told myself, "Fine!" So I pulled over to the shoulder of the interstate. I put my hands over the top of the steering wheel and laid my head back thinking, "Ok, bring it on. Make this one really SPECTACULAR! Let this be "the real one" where I die, cuz if today I die, it was a good day to die. Just do it. Let's have that big bad panic attack! Dieing only lasts 4 minutes. 4 minutes of agony for a lifetime of freedom. Bring it on. I'm ready." And I took a few deep breaths and relaxed into the seat to let it happen. I was ready for it an no longer resistant.

And I waited. And waited. And waited. And it never came. And it started to get a little hot in the car, cuz hell, it's Texas and summer. So I started the car up and finished driving without another attack during the trip. After that, each time one would come, I would use that same "relax into it and allow it" technique. The result each time was??? Nothing. No attack. Over the years, the panic attacks just "disappeared". Now, the only time they happen is if I have a really rough asthma attack and my oxygen gets too low.

So I kinda apply the same thing to BE. I just relax into it. I don't try to fight it or control it psychologically. I can't. It's bigger than me and has a much louder voice. And the part of the ADF/IF has played in this cycle is that I KNOW now, that feeling hunger isn't going to kill me and that there is a cycle to it too. If I don't feed it and simply relax into the feelings, take a few breaths and let the urge have its day, it doesn't get amped up or revved up and instead it just whimpers a bit then goes away in 10-20 minutes tops.

I know that only my black and white boundaries are triggers with it, and at any time I could be the bug instead of the windshield. So it's an on-going walk of discovery filled with vast landscapes of differing shades of grey.
Thanks for sharing this. I feel like I keep going to food (fear) over choosing health. Choosing eating and eating and eating till I feel crappy. Just being honest. Crazy cycle. I want to be different yet keep doing the same thing.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:30 AM   #138
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Subscribing to this thread as I am totally an emotional eater and binging is my main problem. I am also an all-or-nothing gal and once I've blown one meal I wind up binging
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:13 AM   #139
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Hey Emily. I don't think putting the Calm in capsules would be a good idea.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:43 PM   #140
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Hi Everyone,

Wonderful thread! I myself have fallen off the wagon many a time, especially when I get busy with work, get overwhelmed by life, or feel anxiety, fear, or perfectionism.

One thing that helps me stay on plan is keeping track of and recording food and exercise. I am a bit competitive and it helps me compete with myself to stick to the fat/carb ratios I set for myself and walk the number of steps I have set a goal of walking.

Keeping daily track of my food and exercise helps me in the following ways:
***First, it keeps it on the forefront of my mind so I don't forget I'm in the business of getting healthier.
***Second, provides valuable information that I can go back and check on as to how my body reacts to foods, exercise, micronutrients, etc.
***Third, makes me push myself to achieve my goals.
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:33 AM   #141
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Eliza, good goal of keeping track of food and exercise.

I start out doing this then I peter out. Right now, I am concentrating on only eating when I feel physical hunger. Maybe I should write that down and keep track. My therapist recommended only doing this for the morning. After waking, don't eat until I get hungry. Right now, it doesn't matter what happens after that. One step at a time I guess
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Old 07-13-2013, 04:50 PM   #142
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I am on day 7 of no binge eating. I make myself eat a good breakfast and lunch with plenty of protein and fat. Previously, I had been storing up food for later in the evening when I would binge. Eating earlier in the day has really helped.
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:48 PM   #143
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Eliza, good goal of keeping track of food and exercise.

I start out doing this then I peter out. Right now, I am concentrating on only eating when I feel physical hunger. Maybe I should write that down and keep track. My therapist recommended only doing this for the morning. After waking, don't eat until I get hungry. Right now, it doesn't matter what happens after that. One step at a time I guess
Vicki, I think that is a very measurable goal that would yield itself well to tracking, IMHO. One step at a time is the best way to do it....

I wish you continued success!
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:52 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by cfine View Post
I am on day 7 of no binge eating. I make myself eat a good breakfast and lunch with plenty of protein and fat. Previously, I had been storing up food for later in the evening when I would binge. Eating earlier in the day has really helped.
Great job, cfine! Keep up the good work!
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:36 AM   #145
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I have started taking my magnesium and Cortisol Manager before dinner instead of before bed and I'm finding that I have less urge to graze throughout the evening.

I also got some big empty capsules to fill with my L-Glutamine powder, but they are a pain in the rear to fill. I need to figure out a better way.

Last edited by emily1965; 07-14-2013 at 10:38 AM..
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:10 PM   #146
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We went to a friends place last night for supper and I took a Key Lime Pie recipe from Healthy Indulgences and it was a hit. I have made low carb desserts before with minimal success. I also made black bean brownies from Meal Planning Maven.

Tonight, steak on the grill and Asian green beans.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:22 AM   #147
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Oh my! I love key lime pie. I tried to make a lemon ice box pie into LC and GF recently and it didnt go so well. I will stick to tried and true LC recipes from now on.
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Old 07-16-2013, 02:17 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by emily1965 View Post
I have started taking my magnesium and Cortisol Manager before dinner instead of before bed and I'm finding that I have less urge to graze throughout the evening.

I also got some big empty capsules to fill with my L-Glutamine powder, but they are a pain in the rear to fill. I need to figure out a better way.
Glad to hear the timing change is working.

Can you just mix the L-glutamine into flavored water?
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:43 AM   #149
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cfine, Occasionally I come across a LC or SF dessert recipe that isn't too bad. But, I have had many failures. So much that my family request the "real thing" when I am to bring desserts. For example, several years ago for Thanksgiving and Christmas I tried to make pumpkin pie or dessert or some other desserts that were real flops.

I am continuing to be mindful with my eating and waiting for the first sign of hunger to eat. I was waiting a while after hunger and my therapist was aghast that I was waiting too long. She told me as soon as I felt "empty" to eat. She also said I probably wasn't eating enough at a meal which led me to the snacking in between. Nothing is off limits right now. The difficulty is trying to decide what I AM hungry for. Yesterday for lunch I had 3 small baked potatoes topped with cottage cheese, salsa and jalepenos. YUMMY. I am also reading Intuitive Eating which is helping me to break the diet cycle.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:50 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vli1127 View Post
cfine, Occasionally I come across a LC or SF dessert recipe that isn't too bad. But, I have had many failures. So much that my family request the "real thing" when I am to bring desserts. For example, several years ago for Thanksgiving and Christmas I tried to make pumpkin pie or dessert or some other desserts that were real flops.

I am continuing to be mindful with my eating and waiting for the first sign of hunger to eat. I was waiting a while after hunger and my therapist was aghast that I was waiting too long. She told me as soon as I felt "empty" to eat. She also said I probably wasn't eating enough at a meal which led me to the snacking in between. Nothing is off limits right now. The difficulty is trying to decide what I AM hungry for. Yesterday for lunch I had 3 small baked potatoes topped with cottage cheese, salsa and jalepenos. YUMMY. I am also reading Intuitive Eating which is helping me to break the diet cycle.
That's good news, Vickie. Getting in touch with actual hunger was a huge step for me. It's easy to fool ourselves with cravings hunger or with eating at a conventional mealtime that isn't timed right for us.

My husband requested that we move our dinner hour up awhile ago because he's trying to eliminate snacking around 4-5 pm. I get his dinner ready by 6 or 6:30, and then I eat whenever I'm ready, usually around 7 or 7:30. It works for us.
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