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Old 06-26-2013, 01:32 AM   #91
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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I agree that we're all different, Beeb and I intended to voice that thought in my post.

For some of us, those articles with advice like that are very demoralizing because, try as we might, we can't resist the compulsion, even with all the gum in the world.

Like I said, if the hints work, it's great. But don't beat yourself up if they don't.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:00 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by emel View Post
Although I am quite busy getting ready for a trip right now, vli, I would be happy to help you hammer out the Diet Cure recommendations tailored for your needs when i get back.

Let's revisit here in a week, shall we?
Thanks emel, appreciated.


I borrowed the ebookThink and Grow Thin. Good read so far.

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Old 06-26-2013, 07:44 AM   #93
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All information is valuable...we must find what works for us. However, I know that there ain't enough gum in the world to stop me from my cravings.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:52 PM   #94
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THANK YOU ALL for the post.
I will be reading and re-reading these for a long time to come.

Something that has been holding me together lately is this lil statement:
A Year From Now You'll Wish You'd Started Today !!!!!!
Or modifided to:
A Year From Now You'll Wish You'd Stayed with your WOE Today!!!!!
When I think of all the years I have wasted. UGH!!!!

I'm 6 days into another start. Doing good so far. I love the way ketosis makes me feel.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:07 PM   #95
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I binged yesterday
Been doing Dukan and in my 9 day attack phase have lost 7.6lbs but have binged 4 times in that period.
Want to try lose another 7lbs then go back to JUDDD x
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:20 AM   #96
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Guess what I have been doing; I have gone back through the threads that I primarily posted on and went way back to spring 2009 when I was low 160's. I read most every post I wrote and noted that in late 2010 I started my way back up the scale to where I am today.

I was always trying some "new" plan and even revisited a couple over again. I was also going to TOPS initially but that went by the wayside too.

So, what did I learn from all of this??? Don't know, other than I know what to do. I don't need to read anymore frickin books or diet plans. I just finished scanning a book I borrowed for the Kindle app. on the iPad "Think Yourself Thin" expecting I was going the read something "new". Well, guess what, there wasn't anything new, surprise, surprise.
DuH

I am not here to tell you that today is a new day, etc. I am just sharing whatever that may be. No new insight or lightning bolts or anything like that.

So, where do I go from here, who knows. Therapy is tonight, and another day will be gone.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:27 AM   #97
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Last night was Day 3 I'm counting as a success.

We ate dinner out.
After I was ready for bed, I was a tiny bit hungry. I ate one 1-carb candy thing from Linda Sue's site (56 calories, if that matters). I drank a glass of fizzy water because I was thirsty, and I went to bed and ate no more until breakfast time.

I think it is a combo of staying on plan LC, keeping up with my magnesium supplements, and practicing being peaceful and unstressed as best as I can. And I suspect cutting way down on artificial sugars has helped too, for my own struggle.
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:56 PM   #98
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I just got back from a 6-day camping trip with good friends.
I stayed on plan, which included venturing into eating tiny portions of blueberry, cantaloupe, and once I had 3 cherries. Other than that, the only other food I ate that wasn't good was Dutch Oven Meatloaf with steel-cut oats as a minimal filler.

I did great with not eating at night except on the meatloaf night. That night I woke twice and had too many little chocolate candies I made (1 carb each but I ate 6 of them). And then the next night I had a nice fatty steak and a small portion of zucchini/mushroom/tomato/onion medley (hobo veggie pack over the fire--- it was great!) And that put me right back on track and I didn't eat at night that night.

I really really think that staying low carb but well fed throughout the day, plus the magnesium supplements, is what's doing the trick for me. Seems like even the smallest bit of off-plan food (like the steel cut oats in my friend's delicious meat loaf) is enough to cause a nighttime episode. Very interesting, and I'm really proud of myself for doing well while camping.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:30 PM   #99
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Vicki, I hear your frustration and I've been there. I wish I could toss you a rope... It is just a matter of time, though. Like you said, you know what you need to do. It's just HARD.

Emel, Sounds like you're doing great. Is your night eating problem mostly in the middle of the night, like you get up to eat? I don't think I had what Beeb is talking about, she has problems in the evening, but I used to eat in my sleep. Sometimes I'd just get up and eat, but a lot of the time, I was actually asleep and would only know that I had eaten bc there'd be food missing or in my mouth or on my face. It sucked! I went to a behavioral therapist for it for a year and a half w no improvement and then, out of desperation, she hypnotized me and I was completely 100% cured. Ever since then (knock wood!) I have had control over the night eating (I'm not talking about the evening, just middle of the night) and over the time I go to sleep (before being hypnotized I had a very hard time falling asleep before about 6 am) and I haven't walked in my sleep (used to leave the house and actually went shopping a couple of times, no car involved, thank goodness!).
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:37 PM   #100
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Jayne, from what I understand, there are two forms of night eating disorders. Sounds like you had the eating while being asleep and not even knowing it kind, and I have the waking fully and being compelled to eat kind.

Therapy didn't help me either (CBT, along with "chew gum" and "just use willpower". For $120 an hour, I want more than a suggestion to pick up some gum. )
I think nutrition is healing me. I think I was lacking nutrients and minerals and stuff, and now that I am eating a carefully crafted LC diet, I'm doing much better.

I am so glad to hear that hypnosis helped you. I totally believe it is a valid therapy.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:48 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emel View Post
I just got back from a 6-day camping trip with good friends.
I stayed on plan, which included venturing into eating tiny portions of blueberry, cantaloupe, and once I had 3 cherries. Other than that, the only other food I ate that wasn't good was Dutch Oven Meatloaf with steel-cut oats as a minimal filler.

I did great with not eating at night except on the meatloaf night. That night I woke twice and had too many little chocolate candies I made (1 carb each but I ate 6 of them). And then the next night I had a nice fatty steak and a small portion of zucchini/mushroom/tomato/onion medley (hobo veggie pack over the fire--- it was great!) And that put me right back on track and I didn't eat at night that night.

I really really think that staying low carb but well fed throughout the day, plus the magnesium supplements, is what's doing the trick for me. Seems like even the smallest bit of off-plan food (like the steel cut oats in my friend's delicious meat loaf) is enough to cause a nighttime episode. Very interesting, and I'm really proud of myself for doing well while camping.
Good job on the trip! What is it that magnesium is supposed to do for us, I haven't heard about this? Tia
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:44 PM   #102
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Calcium and magnesium are used to regulate muscles including the heart.
I knew a dose in the evening could help with sleep.
And I read that sweets cravings could be helped by taking magnesium.

Recently, while searching the web for ideas about NES help, it kept coming up, with several people claiming that it helped them. I also read that sweets deplete magnesium from the body. Since my issue includes eating sweets, I figured I was low on magnesium. And also, once a body begins to burn fat due to being on a LC diet, magnesium needs are increased because a lot of it is excreted in urine (at least at the first month or so).

So I just lucked into it--- I supplemented magnesium, then changed the timing of my dosage after I read anecdotes which claimed that magnesium helped with NES. And it helped.

Last edited by emel; 07-03-2013 at 07:45 PM..
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:31 PM   #103
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Thanks, I used to supplement with it for cramps but don't have that problem this go round. I think I will try it again.

What's NES?
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:59 AM   #104
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Thanks, I used to supplement with it for cramps but don't have that problem this go round. I think I will try it again.

What's NES?
Night Eating Syndrome.

and then the type Jayne is talking about may be what is called NSRED (nocturnal sleep-related eating disorder).

NES= diagnosed when 3 or more of the following are present:
1. Lack of desire to eat in the morning and/or breakfast is omitted on four or more mornings per week
2. Presence of a strong urge to eat between dinner and sleep onset and/or during the night
3. Sleep onset and/or sleep maintenance insomnia are present four or more nights per week
4. Presence of a belief that one must eat in order to initiate or return to sleep
5. Mood is frequently depressed and/or mood worsens in the evening . The disorder is associated with significant distress and/or impairment in functioning.
6. The disordered pattern of eating has been maintained for at least 3 months.
7. The disorder is not secondary to substance abuse or dependence, medical disorder, medication, or another psychiatric disorder.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:31 PM   #105
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Which form and dosage of magnesium do you take? Thanks
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:45 PM   #106
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Mine is magnesium citrate, 250 mg. I take it twice a day, and sometimes I take a third one if I feel like I need it. The 500 mg would be fine, too.

The citrate form is easy to find, and you can also get a calcium/magnesium citrate supplement. That's good too.
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Old 07-04-2013, 02:49 PM   #107
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Thanks Emel.
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:28 PM   #108
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I just went to two stores and couldn't find the citrate. Most were mag. malate or oxide. I do have some Natural calm that expires this month I think this is probably the same thing.
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:10 PM   #109
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Yes the natural calm is the same. I think even better because its more easily absorbed in liquid form.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:16 PM   #110
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I have been professionally diagnosed with NES, not the waking and eating kind, but the kind that I eat after dinner and don't seem to get full so I don't stop eating. It's a binging disorder, for me, where I never seem to get enough, or know when I'm full.

Dieting makes it worse, and restricting any kind of food even more so. I have taken to eating "healthy" carbs; a few whole grains, only natural sugars like those from fruits in limited amounts and LOTS of protein and veggies.

I still binge but I'm mindful now and doing better with stopping it before it gets out of hand. At this point I'm just trying to learn how to eat "normal" so it's "one day at a time" and any day I don't do my NES/binging is a gift and a great day!

Just a note: I was told by a number of nutritionist to be careful of magnesium citrate and long term use. It seems to be very rough on our insides when used long term. Just was I was told, nothing more.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:56 AM   #111
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I do think there is a strong element of physiology involved with ed. I think many of us are nutritionally depleted. It's not "all in our heads". For me, eating tons of veggies, controlling my protein and eating fat helps nourish me on a cellular level...so my cravings have diminished sooooo much!

I think each of us are so wonderfully unique that we must each find our own true path and what works for me, won't necessarily work for you. Also, I will most assuredly be at a different point in my path continuum than you are--sometimes not as far down the walk and sometimes further down the path.

For me, success with ed is really measured not in my control but in my surrender. That may sound strange? I'm not talking in terms of activating a binge. Rather, it's kinda zen-like approach or as I call it, "my Karate Kid approach". Instead of fighting to control the tide by pushing against it, I try to move with the tide and give into the tide, not trying to hold it back.

I used to have panic attacks. They felt debilitating at times. Simply could NOT make myself go into a mall or a crowded space. I would feel the panic attack turning-on and I would will myself to stop it. Well anyone who's had one knows, the "body wants what it wants." I could not WILL myself out of an attack. It only made them stronger!

One day I felt an attack coming on. I was driving by myself and was in the boonies between Dallas and Houston. I knew it was gonna be a humdinger! I'd had it. I was just "done" with them and how they ruled my life. And I told myself, "Fine!" So I pulled over to the shoulder of the interstate. I put my hands over the top of the steering wheel and laid my head back thinking, "Ok, bring it on. Make this one really SPECTACULAR! Let this be "the real one" where I die, cuz if today I die, it was a good day to die. Just do it. Let's have that big bad panic attack! Dieing only lasts 4 minutes. 4 minutes of agony for a lifetime of freedom. Bring it on. I'm ready." And I took a few deep breaths and relaxed into the seat to let it happen. I was ready for it an no longer resistant.

And I waited. And waited. And waited. And it never came. And it started to get a little hot in the car, cuz hell, it's Texas and summer. So I started the car up and finished driving without another attack during the trip. After that, each time one would come, I would use that same "relax into it and allow it" technique. The result each time was??? Nothing. No attack. Over the years, the panic attacks just "disappeared". Now, the only time they happen is if I have a really rough asthma attack and my oxygen gets too low.

So I kinda apply the same thing to BE. I just relax into it. I don't try to fight it or control it psychologically. I can't. It's bigger than me and has a much louder voice. And the part of the ADF/IF has played in this cycle is that I KNOW now, that feeling hunger isn't going to kill me and that there is a cycle to it too. If I don't feed it and simply relax into the feelings, take a few breaths and let the urge have its day, it doesn't get amped up or revved up and instead it just whimpers a bit then goes away in 10-20 minutes tops.

I know that only my black and white boundaries are triggers with it, and at any time I could be the bug instead of the windshield. So it's an on-going walk of discovery filled with vast landscapes of differing shades of grey.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:22 AM   #112
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Just a note: I was told by a number of nutritionist to be careful of magnesium citrate and long term use. It seems to be very rough on our insides when used long term. Just was I was told, nothing more.

Sometimes better to take magnesium earlier in the day, if you don't want to experience any laxative sort of affect. This doesn't affect everyone, what does, but might be something to keep in mind. Milk of magnesia used to be prescribed for this precise purpose. I take mine earlier in the day and with food for this reason.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:35 AM   #113
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Any pointers for choking down Natural Calm? I bought a big container of it and that stuff is just vile.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:02 PM   #114
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subscribing to this I need the words in here to help me, it's just a craving, a craving never killed a single person!

if I cheat, I'm building bad neural pathways that will reinforce my need to eat crap, but if I manage to resist, I'm building up my resistance muscle and the neural pathways that will make it easier to resist next time.

heck I could quote everything here, bottom line is I work better with a plan, I NEED A PLAN!!
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Old 07-06-2013, 03:11 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooticus View Post
I do think there is a strong element of physiology involved with ed. I think many of us are nutritionally depleted. It's not "all in our heads". For me, eating tons of veggies, controlling my protein and eating fat helps nourish me on a cellular level...so my cravings have diminished sooooo much!

I think each of us are so wonderfully unique that we must each find our own true path and what works for me, won't necessarily work for you. Also, I will most assuredly be at a different point in my path continuum than you are--sometimes not as far down the walk and sometimes further down the path.

For me, success with ed is really measured not in my control but in my surrender. That may sound strange? I'm not talking in terms of activating a binge. Rather, it's kinda zen-like approach or as I call it, "my Karate Kid approach". Instead of fighting to control the tide by pushing against it, I try to move with the tide and give into the tide, not trying to hold it back.

I used to have panic attacks. They felt debilitating at times. Simply could NOT make myself go into a mall or a crowded space. I would feel the panic attack turning-on and I would will myself to stop it. Well anyone who's had one knows, the "body wants what it wants." I could not WILL myself out of an attack. It only made them stronger!

One day I felt an attack coming on. I was driving by myself and was in the boonies between Dallas and Houston. I knew it was gonna be a humdinger! I'd had it. I was just "done" with them and how they ruled my life. And I told myself, "Fine!" So I pulled over to the shoulder of the interstate. I put my hands over the top of the steering wheel and laid my head back thinking, "Ok, bring it on. Make this one really SPECTACULAR! Let this be "the real one" where I die, cuz if today I die, it was a good day to die. Just do it. Let's have that big bad panic attack! Dieing only lasts 4 minutes. 4 minutes of agony for a lifetime of freedom. Bring it on. I'm ready." And I took a few deep breaths and relaxed into the seat to let it happen. I was ready for it an no longer resistant.

And I waited. And waited. And waited. And it never came. And it started to get a little hot in the car, cuz hell, it's Texas and summer. So I started the car up and finished driving without another attack during the trip. After that, each time one would come, I would use that same "relax into it and allow it" technique. The result each time was??? Nothing. No attack. Over the years, the panic attacks just "disappeared". Now, the only time they happen is if I have a really rough asthma attack and my oxygen gets too low.

So I kinda apply the same thing to BE. I just relax into it. I don't try to fight it or control it psychologically. I can't. It's bigger than me and has a much louder voice. And the part of the ADF/IF has played in this cycle is that I KNOW now, that feeling hunger isn't going to kill me and that there is a cycle to it too. If I don't feed it and simply relax into the feelings, take a few breaths and let the urge have its day, it doesn't get amped up or revved up and instead it just whimpers a bit then goes away in 10-20 minutes tops.

I know that only my black and white boundaries are triggers with it, and at any time I could be the bug instead of the windshield. So it's an on-going walk of discovery filled with vast landscapes of differing shades of grey.
and amazing words of wisdom! Thanks, my friend!
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Old 07-06-2013, 03:21 PM   #116
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i would recommend getting a chelated form of magnesium (like mag glycinate) or another highly aborbable form like mag malate. These forms of magnesium don't work like laxatives (like mag citrate does, where it makes you immediately go to the bathroom).
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Old 07-06-2013, 03:41 PM   #117
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I agree, great post pooticus! I'll be thinking about that karate kid approach.

What is ADF? I have had the same experience with IF. I find it so liberating to know that hunger is not as scary as I used to believe (or scary at all, really).

I feel the bug/windshield thing very strongly and I think it is one of the very hard things about my eating issues. I feel like I will never be able to count on myself not having a horrible relapse (for the most part, a screw up isn't a problem, but I know that I have it in me to derail for a year at a time). I suppose the zen idea could help there...
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:50 PM   #118
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Rubidoux! I can relate. So I don't have that fear any longer with respect to the ED, just a healthy watchfulness. But no fear. So I do know it's possible to get to that place.

I relate from a different sense. I have so much daily pain from the cancer ops that if I allowed myself to think I will have to endure this pain up to 30+ years. Well it's just too gruesome to consider and I'm physically immobilized at that thought. So instead, I just shut the door on the thought. I close the door, put a new picture up in front of it and refuse to do any more than simply get through today. Cuz I know if I make today successful and happy in the face of the pain, and always focus on making the next best choice in as many ways as possible, then the future will sort itself out and I will be equipped to deal with whatever that super scary future holds. I call this one "Pulling a Scarlett" (as in Scarlett O'Hara-"Well fiddle-dee-dee Miss Melly, I won't can't worry about that today. I'll worry about that tomorrah.")

I think CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) is such an incredible tool in our fight. This book was written in the 80's but it's still very good: Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy, and it's useful in helping deal with all types of different compulsive behaviors, especially those involving substance abuse, which food abuse absolutely is by my definition.

The real truth is that we DO have the power. And it's just our lying mind that insists on telling us the lie that we are powerless in the face of our cravings. Finally understanding that point and knowing that when I'm weakest I am strongest (aka The Karate Kid Defense), changed my life and restored the power I never knew I had over life, over my body, over my attitude to choose happiness...you know?

(By the way, ADF=Alternate Day Fasting. I presently follow the JUDDD plan where I limit calories every other day to 500 cals/day and eat a low carb controlled diet on my UD or Up Day. I eat 1200-1400 cals on UDs. All days are low carb and each day I add an eating window in because it seems to help with hunger but more importantly...it's a healing time. Studies are showing that IF and ADF with caloric/protein restriction are capable of reversing many disease states that are mediated by inflammatory hormones and pro-hormones and mediators such as iGF, mTor, inflammatory cytokines as well as turning on a set of genes called the SIRT genes that are sometimes called the "rescue gene" or "skinny gene."

I've had some pretty miraculous results totally unrelated to weight loss.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:49 PM   #119
Why wait, just do it NOW!
 
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Originally Posted by nolcjunk View Post
i would recommend getting a chelated form of magnesium (like mag glycinate) or another highly aborbable form like mag malate. These forms of magnesium don't work like laxatives (like mag citrate does, where it makes you immediately go to the bathroom).
Thank you for this! I couldn't remember what was suggested instead of the magnesium citrate and here you told us! WTG and thanks again!!
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:55 PM   #120
Way too much time on my hands!
 
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I have been following this thread since it started and felt like I should de-lurk. I can't tell you all how important this thread has become to me and I come back to it over and over again.

I have run the gamut of eating disorders for the majority of my life. My mother and our family doctor actually had me on amphetamine diet pills at the age of 3 (yes THREE). It was the late 60's. Even as a little toddler, my mother would hand me entire packages of cookies or family size bags of chips and I just didn't have a natural shut off signal. By the time I started grade school, she would have me on extremely restrictive diets until suddenly she would get distracted and begin feeding me grown man size portions of floured and fried meats, fried and mashed potatoes and gravy...rinse and repeat the starvation binge cycle until I was old enough to impose the starve binge cycle on my own. She made me have my stomach stapled at 17 and that's when the bulimia started. It went on for several years, sometimes binging and purging as often as a dozen times a day. Lots and lots of therapy got me off the bulimia, but for most of my adult life I have continued to eat awesomely during the day then have horrible cravings for crap from after dinner until bedtime. I thought I had a grip, but I'm up 30 pounds since the first of the year, all from night time eating. I just can't bring myself to change my stats yet, but I'm well over 200 again.

I take 500 mg of magnesium citrate morning and night. After reading this thread, I'm wondering if it would help me to start taking my evening dose right after dinner instead of bedtime. What do you guys think? I did buy a jar of Natural Calm awhile back, but couldn't even manage to choke it down the first night. Any pointers there?

I also have a big jar of L-Glutamine powder. Does anybody think some of that right after dinner would help? I also think it tastes nasty, but probably doable.

I know I have adrenal issues and get an upsurge of cortisol and dopamine in the late evening, making it very difficult to force myself to bed at a decent hour because of that late night "second wind". I was on hydrocortisone for about 2 years to help heal my adrenals and don't think there is much else I can do for them. I've taken Gaba, Kava, Calm PRT and 5-HTP with no noticeable difference. I'm just finishing a 30 day course of Cortisol Manager and couldn't see any difference. I do have an awesome doctor who likes natural remedies and is very open minded to alternative therapies. He believes cravings are biochemical, but we have never been able to find the right fix for me.

I have PCOS and continue to take 500 mg Metformin morning and evening. I'm also hypothyroid and am optimized on 125 mcg of Armour Thyroid twice a day.

And, lastly, Rubidoux......I absolutely adore your avatar.
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