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Old 05-27-2012, 05:31 PM   #181
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I can maintain with carbs, too. I can eat whatever I want and not gain, as long as I fast the next day, or nearly fast. That much I learned from JUDDD and it's a good trick to have up my sleeve, but I also have to deal with the gas, bloating, and carb coma that comes with it. Not to mention trying to ignore the damage I know the sugar, weird glutens, proteins & anti-nutrients, and nasty oils are doing to me internally.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:14 PM   #182
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OK guys...here it goes.

I have done this on and off for 12 years. The first time, I lost 87lbs in 8 months and was were I wanted to be. I was new to the whole "diet" thing and I had no clue you could not go back to eating like a normal person. I thought I did this to myself and if I just ate "normal" it would be OK. As I started to gain the weight back, I had in my head that I could just go back to Atkins and the weight would melt off once again.

Needless to say, that didn't happen. I tried again in 2003 and came to a screeching halt at a 30-40lb loss. I decided to "shake" it up a bit by carbing up. Enter 2007...back up and started again...30-40lbs loss...screeching halt. I maintained that loss for a year, life happened, and in 2009 was back at the start AGAIN.

I started again in 2009, found LCF and a support group to do this with. I lost 40 lbs and when things stopped, I was convinced I just needed to stick with it and the weight loss would start again. I was convinced those other times were "normal" stalls and I had not waited it out long enough for my body to catch up.

For the next 13 months I tried all the advice here to get things going again. NOTHING!

At the end of Jan this year, I lost it.
I was afraid to eat too much meat.
I was afraid to eat too much fat.
I was afraid to eat my LC "treats" and breads.
I was afraid to eat 2 or 3 times a day.
I was afraid to eat too many veggies.
I was afraid to cheese, mayo, soy sauce, corn oil, bacon, hot dogs, onions.....
I was afraid a cough drop would make me gain weight.

I WAS AFRAID TO EAT.

I don't even feel qualified to give advice to others on this board because WHAT DO I KNOW!


Since then I have had Fritos, Cheetos, pizza, french fries, crackers, breaded fish sticks, and potato chips. Not every meal. Not every day.

I gained the obligatory 10lbs of water/glycogen.

So, I am maintaining on carbs. Still only 2 meals a day, but some days with carbs.

I am at the point where I know better than to gain it all back. But why cut everything out of my life(mouth) when I wasn't losing on NO carbs?

If I didn't lose weight in 13 months eating vlc, why not maintain 10lbs higher with a few carbs every week?

I see no reason to 1200-1500 cals a day and NOT lose a single pound! There is NO reason for a 240lb woman to be able to maintain at that level. For years on end!

So, am I stalled? YES!
Am I determined to lose weight? not so much.
I don't believe I can.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:19 PM   #183
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I can feel your pain, DrJ. I really can. I am there, too. I just know if I over-do it, it's going to result in complete re-gain and loss of health. I'm just taking a step back from it all right now. Just collecting myself before I try something else again. I am determined not to give up. I'm just taking a break right now. You can, too. But don't lose your resolve to do what's best for your health, inside and and out, physically and mentally and emotionally. I don't have the answers, either, hell, that's why I started this challenge. We've got your back. Just keep coming back.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:47 PM   #184
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Drjlocarb I also understand. I recently tried something that was actually not recommended for me....JUDDD. I only lasted through 2 down days because I simply couldn't figure out how to adjust the insulin so that I didn't have blood sugars in the 50s.

Anyway, SoHappy did send me a pm that mentioned that for some people they can get good results by keeping their down days at 1000 calories and then subtracting 250 calories from my 1780 updays. I was doing 700 calories and 1780. Anyway it didn't work for me, but maybe something like that would work for you. I was planning on doing mostly low carb, but if I wasn't diabetic I would probably add in some higher carb choices now and then on updays. I think the point of JUDDD or calorie cycling is that it shakes up your thyroid and gets it out of the shutdown mode that can come from very low carb or very low calorie dieting.

I hope you are able to maintain on your own....and wish you all the best. Would always appreciate your posts
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:46 AM   #185
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Gosh, I'm not sure anyone else is still here Had to post this someplace, and in the main lobby people would probably wonder why I am so dang happy.

Since last June I have been bouncing between 192.8 and 195. THIS MORNING I WAS 191.8 . I have no idea if this will stick.....but I was so happy I almost fell off the scale.

I have found upping the fat and lowering the protein to be a lot more difficult that I thought it would be. I do see a decrease in my blood sugar when I eat less protein so I am trying hard to stay at about 60-66g of protein. I've been able to reduce my insulin at lunch and dinner by 1unit. One unit doesn't sound like much....but when I started in Sept 2010, I was taking 20units at each meal (60u total) plus an additional 20u if my blood sugar was still high late in the evening. So, many days I took 80 units of one type of insulin, plus 40-60 units of long acting insulin at bedtime. Now I'm taking 19 units to cover all my meals with none extra at night. Still taking 40 units of long acting at night but hope some day that will come down.

When I am hungry during the day....I'm eating butter (sometimes whipped), and coconut oil....instead of cheese or other protein.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:13 AM   #186
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Maureen, I am so happy for you! I hope it sticks and the losses continue. You must keep up up to date!!!

I have become quite discouraged recently and often think that I have never read that anyone has recovered from a stall of the magnitude that we on this thread seem to be experiencing and feel hopeless. So Maureen, your timing is quite wonderful also!
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:40 AM   #187
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*fingers crossed*

Mobear may be the one who keeps us from becoming the "stalled but discouraged" group!
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:55 AM   #188
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I'm freaking out here. I've been in ketosis for a few days now, this is day four. I'm UP 3 lbs. I've been under 25g carbs every day except yesterday, when I was at ~30. I had low carb tortillas which don't normally bother me, and that put me over a little. I was feeling really upset and angry already because I was up 2 that day. Now this morning I'm up the other one of the three lbs.

I'm NOT eating too many calories. I've been anywhere from 1600 to 1800 calories each day. I'm drinking scads of water. I went to my family doctor before breakfast this morning and had blood drawn for cholesterol and thyroid panels. I didn't want to wait for the Endo appt. I've done a fair bit of research in the last few days and am realizing that I already know what's wrong, I just need to get the doctor to prescribe what I need to fix it. I don't need to see an Endo for that.

Yes, my thyroid is off, but that can't be the entire problem. It's been off since forever and it hasn't been successfully treated it yet...and I lost weight at the beginning of this journey. I'm going to eat salad like it's going out of style. That seemed to help in the beginning. I don't know what else to do...I'm seriously on the verge of a nervous breakdown here.

IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!! I am eating LESS carbs than when I was "maintaining" (aka stalled), and I'm GAINING!! Could it be the fat? Could it be the protein? Maybe my body doesn't like high fat? Could I be retaining water like crazy??
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:14 PM   #189
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Maybe you need to UP your calories ?? Some people say they miraculously drop weight when they do !

Are you pooping regularly ? That can add weight like you wouldn't believe ! I eat a lot of celery to stay regular, and when I don't I can sure tell.

Good Luck ! Don't give up !
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:59 PM   #190
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Mobear, I'm still here! ! How encouraging!

Domino, I'm sorry. No, it doesn't make any sense. I just don't trust big swings in weight either way. There's no real reason why you should be gaining fat like that. It really must be water. Why though, I can't say. Those tortillas usually have soy in them, and with a thyroid issue, maybe that's not the best thing to be eating. Just throwing that out there, I don't know.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:09 AM   #191
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Don't trust the scale. The scale is a lie!

I'm back where I started the week at. Sigh. Thank goodness for that, but it's still not an improvement. I think that the tortillas were too many carbs. Next time I will only have one. Or none. Probably none, unless the thought of salad has me gagging. That happens sometimes. Maybe I'll just put my meat, cheese and salsa in a bowl and eat it with a spoon!!

I go to the doctor today, to try to convince them to give me something for my thyroid that WORKS.

Oh, and about poo-- I just count that as part of my body weight that isn't changeable-- like bones. I'm regular in my own way, because of thyroid and diet. It's not like I get extraordinarily backed up or anything.

I think I need a scale vacation. When I started out and was losing, I didn't really weigh at all. For one, I didn't own a scale. Also, I messed up my ankle and couldn't stand, let alone on a scale, until a few months later. By then I had lost almost all the weight I've lost so far! So, I totally missed all of the weird, random fluctuations that I'm *sure* happened. I just need to do this the way I know I should and forget I own a scale for a while.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:28 AM   #192
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For me, going on a scale vacation is a sure-fire way to gain weight. If I don't know what I weigh on a daily, or near daily, basis, then things can get out of hand. What helps me is changing my mindset, which is easier said than done, of course. In my mind, I am just trying to maintain right around 150. I hit 154 a few days ago because I ate some carby stuff but I didn't freak out about it. I just fasted until dinner the next day and am back to where I need to be.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:36 AM   #193
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Domino I'm happy you are back to where you were! I recall a few months ago Ms. Woods was having trouble and finally had her boyfriend hide her scale. If I lived closer, I would offer to come over and hide yours .

Sometimes I think all the stress of being stalled and constantly trying to adjust my eating just adds to the cortisol and more problems.

Oh, and the other day I took 1/2oz of shredded cheese and 2T of salad dressing and ate it out of a bowl

Hope your doctor's appointment goes well.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:55 AM   #194
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Mobear, did the loss stick? *fingers crossed*
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:33 PM   #195
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I don't know if my loss stuck or not cause my official "weighin" is on Thursday morning. I did cheat yesterday morning and I was at 192.8 but I have a little bit of hope that even if I bounce up a bit that I might go back down to 191.8.

I am on jury duty this week and next and don't have much internet time...but I'll still check in!
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:29 AM   #196
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Well this morning was official weigh in and I did bounce up to 193.8 annoyed: I'm still hoping next week I will go down which is what usually happens so I'm still kind of optimistic.

This has been a real off the wall week for me. Doing jury duty and actually sat on a case. My eating is way off schedule - lunch was way too late followed by my usually early dinner. Couldn't drink nearly as much water or eat nearly as much fiber as I usually do.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Domino how did your doctor appt go? I'll check back when I can!
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:33 AM   #197
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Jury duty stinks, Mobear. Too bad about the bounce back up.

I'm not doing as well as I could be (weight-wise), but it will be over soon. I am hatching a new plan of attack presently. I'll share when I get the details hammered out.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:44 AM   #198
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Speck ~ have you thought about starting a journal? Or, do you have one already and I am just slow on the uptake?
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:03 AM   #199
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Speck ~ have you thought about starting a journal? Or, do you have one already and I am just slow on the uptake?
No, I don't have one. I've thought about it, but always talk myself out of it.
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:20 AM   #200
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Hey, how's everyone doing over here?

I thought I would let you all in on my experiment. I've been off strict low carb for most of the month. I have gained 4 pounds. I have a week or so to go before I get back to dieting. I decided to go with the flow of my events and use this opportunity as a strategy to "re-set" myself before going back to strict Primal low carb.

Is anyone else experimenting?
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:27 AM   #201
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I am still here too.

I'm feeling better about things after I posted my rant here. I feel less inclined to all out cheat and gave myself permission to eat a few things now and then. I am having this feeling that I might be just about ready to re-induct and see what happens.

BUT.....that might have to wait til after the 4th and the county fair is over.

Just a few more weeks.

And I few have a few bad carb things in the house.

Well, now all that^^^ doesn't sound like I'm ready to re-commit at all.
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:21 PM   #202
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I've been off LC for a few weeks too...... keep getting back on for a few days and then life happens and I get back off for a few days.
Up 5 lbs... oh well, like you both are saying, maybe a re-set is necessary and then back to LC after that !

We'll get there girls ! Gotta enjoy life along the way though
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:29 PM   #203
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Heck yeah, I'm experimenting. I think the right diet for me is *not* very very low carb. I had been eating a lot of fat and very few carbs... but then I ended up eating too many calories, I think. I did some reading, some thinking, and examining exactly what I really want out of food while lowering calories to around 1600 per day. I'm doing around 35-40 carbs per day the last couple days and last night I easily made it down to 1600, no hunger. Then I ended up having to add in another 150 for a snack because I forgot to take my meds with dinner. Poop. Despite that, not too shabby.

So, in short: moderate protein, moderate fat, low-ish carb and lower calorie. It means I can eat things that are thought of as "healthy" and that I *REALLY* enjoy, not be hungry and not have to sweat every darn carb. And, oddly enough, I woke up in ketosis and have been in it all day!

I've also started a thyroid supporting supplement. It might help my sluggishness and what I believe is a slightly under active thyroid.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:08 PM   #204
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I think a lot of us get stuck thinking we have to eat 20 carbs or less. We start with Atkins Induction, then for whatever reason, fear going above, and we end up never finding our CCLL like Dr. Atkins wanted us to. Then we get frustrated, slowing down, or not losing, and think we have to go lower. Then we get even more frustrated and bad things can happen. I know I can have up to about 60 and not gain, for example, but I don't know what my actual Critical Carbohydrate Level for Losing is. I'm thinking that I'm going to go back to basics, and actually follow the plan. Of course, this is providing that I actually lose, but I have a feeling, that after replenishing my glycogen stores, I may be able to get things going again. Almost like starting over, but without having to gain back everything I lost.
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:23 PM   #205
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I'm pretty sure my CCLL is something around 40. I've not been able to peg it down to an exact number, because it seems like it really depends on a lot of factors, and calories DO count. I have learned that at a certain point, you just HAVE to count them. Smaller body= smaller calorie needs to maintain. I'm becoming more and more positive that the reason I haven't been losing is simply because I'm still eating "fat person" sized portions...because NOTHING has changed in my eating habits.

Sure, I've tweaked the ratios here and there, but nothing major, and the calories were the same. If I have the slow metabolism that I believe I have, then I should be eating even less. Thus the number I arrived at: 1600. And I'm *satisfied* on that amount, which is the important thing. I can get full and stay full with the right balance of macros on a lower calorie plan. My goal is to eat until I'm not hungry, not to eat until I'm full. I screwed that up tonight, or I'd have been well under 1500 calories.
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:59 AM   #206
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Interesting stuff on Jimmy Moore's blog. Google Jimmy Moore’s n=1 Experiments: Nutritional Ketosis Day 1-30.

After reading this I felt like there may be some hope for weight loss after all. Bye, bye protein and hello fat - I am off to do my n=1 experiment!!
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:23 AM   #207
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Cathy, thank you for sharing that. Good stuff to know. Upping the fat may be the key to restarting the ol' stall.

I like Jimmy and am glad he has found something that is working for him!
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Old 06-16-2012, 06:45 AM   #208
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My experiment seems to be working *so far*. It's the 3rd day of serious calorie counting and, while not so much "restriction", I am limiting them. I'm NOT going hungry, not at all. This morning, I was down a pound on the scale!! I'm not back down to my low yet, and I have miles to go before I meet goal.

I'm not even sure what goal IS anymore. I have a number there, but it's really pretty arbitrary. I just want to look good and hopefully not have as much batwing. Haha! It would be nice to be back into a size 10 though.
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:36 AM   #209
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Interesting stuff on Jimmy Moore's blog. Google Jimmy Moore’s n=1 Experiments: Nutritional Ketosis Day 1-30.

After reading this I felt like there may be some hope for weight loss after all. Bye, bye protein and hello fat - I am off to do my n=1 experiment!!
Cathy, I was reading Jimmy's N-1 last night and I think he may be on to something! I read the comment section from the sweet potato experiment and it sounds like he has been getting all the "helpful" advice we have been getting from the people here. (not on this thread) I felt so sorry for him. So many were so quick to tell him to cut the calories, he must be lying about what and how much he was eating, etc. He has been stalled and slowly gaining for a long time on the same low carb "diet" which allowed him to drop weight in the past. I feel his pain!

Are you going to get a meter or just up the fat and limit the protein? I have no clue how to track protein. My meat comes 1/2 a steer at a time so no weights on the packages. What IS limited protein? What carb level are you shooting for?

This info is the first real hope I've had in a LONG time.
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:00 AM   #210
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I can't say how much I appreciate Jimmy for putting himself out there and taking the insults (well meaning but insults all the same). He has a tougher skin that I do and I have a way of not being able to take it lying down. He is a saint!!

So I will not get a meter at this point and am upping the fat grams and lowering the protein grams. Interesting and logical that is is not a ratio but an actual measure. So between my kitchen scale and online tracking I am constructing a plan of 20g net carbs, no more than 50g protein and 100g of fat.

I did this yesterday and coincidentally or otherwise, I was down 1.5 lbs this a.m.. I have been slowly gaining so this was a pleasant surprise. My calories were about the same as they always are.

For my evening meal, I am going to have about 1/2 what I normally have of a rib eye which right now seems like that is going to be hard but I am adding a tbsp. of butter and having my homemade greek yogurt for dessert so I think I will feel just fine with that.

I do feel hopeful and like Jimmy, am going to give it a good 3 months. I do tend to start these things and then get distracted so if you see me doing that, please remind me??
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia

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