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Old 03-21-2013, 07:24 PM   #1531
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Hi Speck!

I was wondering what that fast 5 was supposed to mean. Wow, 4 hour window is small. The bounce pattern is super familiar, yeah.

I guess I am officially off the hack. I can see this isn't going to work while my daughter is off on spring break. I ended up eating out again tonight. I tried not to eat too much, but man, I could not believe how much oil and salt was in the food. She is off next week as well, and I am taking off work so we can spend some time together, and we will be out and about.

SlowSure-it sounds like Kahneman understands what happens in marriage. I'm kind of sad to say that, but that is what struck me when I read it.

Ugh, I just wrote this long stress thing that I should take to the playground or another area instead of here. I do need a stress support group!
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:34 PM   #1532
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KT, start a stress support thread in the emotional well-being forum. I'll join you.

I don't truly fast all that time, most of the time. During the work week, I need *something* to fuel me, so I have a two-egg/almond milk shake for breakfast. That usually holds me until 2 or 3 when I get home and eat something small like leftovers or a piece of sf cheesecake. Then dinner is about 7:00. On the weekend, I've managed to get by on coffee and cream until 3 or so. I've been holding in the 163 range all week.

I'm on spring break now, too. Well, half day tomorrow from home, then I'm on vacation. Enjoy the time with your daughter.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:59 PM   #1533
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Speck - thank you for the suggestion. I started a thread in the emotional support group - called "Stress Support - Let's Talk." You might laugh to see that perhaps my stress talk thread is just more stalling and procrastinating to talk about things I should be doing. I have so much to do!

I have noticed that stress does make a lot of my coworkers stop and talk about how bad it is, no matter how much there is to do, we just have to say something for a tiny bit of relief.

Interesting on the window. I am curious to hear if this decreases your appetite over time.

I noticed that I couldn't begin to eat as much as I used to when I go out. I think this has something to do with the potato "reset." I think my lower weight really is going to stick.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:20 AM   #1534
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Speck and Key Tones, I hope that you both enjoy your Spring Break/vacation/family time.

Key Tones, I hope that your lower weight has been re-set for you. It's fretting about the 'set point' that has led me to consider the leptin reset: after all, having spent a year losing 15lbs or so in 2011, I ended the year on 140lbs only to gain 17lbs in 2012 which has brought me back to weight loss cycle.
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Old 03-22-2013, 06:33 AM   #1535
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I am flabbergasted....

195

Hack start was 213.

This is down another pound. Somehow after I ate out twice mid-week, including last night. Sushi restaurant Tuesday, teriyaki chicken spot last night. I filled up both times. Last night, I ordered double brown rice (on the theory that this is supposed to be similar to potatoes and a distant second) and no salad (I like salad, I just don't want their soybean oil or whatever they serve). I ate 1/2 the rice, the size of my fist plus my wrist, and about 1/2 of the broccoli beef, shaking off oil. I think I also explained the five small plates of sushi plus beef udon on Tues.

I overdid the meat portion, I know, yet somehow this still worked. I've been reading some forum comments about how people going to China from here to live lost 40 pounds eating the low fat starch diet and I would never believe this could work for me, but somehow...?

I have been skipping breakfast and afternoon snack all week and just eating a pile of potatoes or sweet potatoes (or mixed) at with Classico pasta sauce at lunch, and an afternoon snack of a glass of water with a tablespoon of chia seeds and stevia if hungry, and potatoes at dinner again (with eating out as explained, and I also ate out/off last weekend). I've had spinach and blueberries most evenings placed in teh vitamix with water and stevia.

I just cannot believe this...I'm only half doing this and still dropping weight by basing it around potatoes and starch. I thought it interesting that McDougall wrote about telling young men to eat a minimum 11 slices of bread (yes, I know, the horror - I would not eat bread or wheat), it crowds out other food and they drop weight. I guess this works with potatoes/rice too.

Wow...

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:50 AM   #1536
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I am flabbergasted....

195

Hack start was 213.
...

Wow...
Truly extraordinary but many congratulations. It's a literal and metaphorical weight off you.

How long have you been following the hack?

I'm so impressed that you've managed to sustain your exercise with this as it's wrecked my stamina and speed (at least in this short-term).

Seeing how well you're managing on such a hybrid of the hack is definitely food for thought.

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Old 03-22-2013, 08:11 AM   #1537
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Truly extraordinary but many congratulations. It's a literal and metaphorical weight off you.

How long have you been following the hack?

I'm so impressed that you've managed to sustain your exercise with this as it's wrecked my stamina and speed (at least in this short-term).

Seeing how well you're managing on such a hybrid of the hack is definitely food for thought.
Thank you!

I did the hack for about 3 weeks starting January 18th with off weekends, and after that I have had off weekends and days. So, essentially, two months minus weekends and off meals here and there during the week after the first 3 weeks.

Also - I cannot exercise well on this. I have to eat raisins in order to cycle - a lot of them.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:50 AM   #1538
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It seems the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know anything.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:14 AM   #1539
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I am shocked and confused myself. How can it be? I could cry thinking about all the years I have tried so hard and suddenly....what is going on? How can it be, and why the heck didn't I figure it out before?

I just blew through all these slacks I bought in 2010 planning to lose weight into them, and now they are too big! I didn't even get to wear them (I bought a lot on a half price sale - stupid now in hindsight , but I use to be stuck in a size for a year.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:39 AM   #1540
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Boy am I glad I found this thread. I have been so frustrated the last few weeks. My DDs are low and my UD are right on point. Still the scale reads the same. Literally the number has not changed at all. No bump and either direction. My TOM has been irregular for me which is weird since I'm always regular. Had to schedule an appointment with my doc so I can get that checked out. I see everyone with all these success stories who started with me and I think "what the heck is wrong with me?" Some days I just want to just stop this WOE and break out the chocolate, but I am determined to give this six months. I just don't know how to feel motivated right now when I'm feeling miserable.
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:02 AM   #1541
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Hi LiLi914 and sorry you are struggling. I understand that you are doing calorie cycling but is it also low carb?
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:13 AM   #1542
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It's not low carb, but since I began JUDDD carbs haven't been all that appetizing. It's interesting how this WOE has opened up my eyes to all of the crap that I was eating.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:07 AM   #1543
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Welcome Lili!

I am usually in a big stall, I just finally found something that is working.

I can't help but report - I am down another two pounds this morning - 193. So, that is 20 pounds since 1/18. I think weight loss disguised by TOM just showed up, since I maintained last week - water shifts as I suspected.

So, adding vegetables and blueberries has not impeded progress at all.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:34 AM   #1544
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Boy am I glad I found this thread. I have been so frustrated the last few weeks. My DDs are low and my UD are right on point. Still the scale reads the same. Literally the number has not changed at all. No bump and either direction. My TOM has been irregular for me which is weird since I'm always regular. Had to schedule an appointment with my doc so I can get that checked out. I see everyone with all these success stories who started with me and I think "what the heck is wrong with me?" Some days I just want to just stop this WOE and break out the chocolate, but I am determined to give this six months. I just don't know how to feel motivated right now when I'm feeling miserable.
Hi Lili, I sure do feel your pain I did JUDDD for 6 months and made no progress. The first couple months went well, then it reversed and stayed in neutral. If you're determined to give it six months, stick with it. But don't give up or you'll end up heavier than when you started. Start thinking of a maintenance plan just in case.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:45 AM   #1545
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Welcome Lili!

I am usually in a big stall, I just finally found something that is working.

I can't help but report - I am down another two pounds this morning - 193. So, that is 20 pounds since 1/18. I think weight loss disguised by TOM just showed up, since I maintained last week - water shifts as I suspected.

So, adding vegetables and blueberries has not impeded progress at all.
That's awesome KT! I'm so happy for you!


Alright ya'll, I've decided to incorporate "safe" starches (in limited quantities) into my diet. There really should be a five paragraph disclaimer and explanation of what "safe" starches means, but I don't have time. Rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, corn. No more than one serving per day, and not everyday. Last night I had a serving of white rice with my thai cabbage shrimp (DH only bought one pound of shrimp and there simply wasn't enough dinner to go around, so I made some rice to extend it) and today I'm down half a pound. All week, my strategy has been to pretty much fast until as late in the afternoon as I can handle, eat something very high fat: sf/gf cheesecake, leftover corned beef, turkey slices with cheese and mayo (you get the idea). Then when dinner comes around, I have a small serving because I'm not that hungry. All week I've seen drops on the scale nearly every day. So, why the "safe" starches? Because I want to. Because it will make my meals more enjoyable by enhancing them and adding variety, and this will mentally help me. I don't seem to experience any adverse effects (spiked bs, cravings, etc) to these starches, so why not. And if they help me lose by helping me keep my food intake minimal, all the better.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:01 AM   #1546
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Hi Speck,

I recently read a pretty good write up about safe starches. Let us know how incorporating them goes!

Is starch a beneficial nutrient or a toxin? You be the judge.

I was out and about all day. Today is an off day, but I decided to make it work as best as I could. I went to a teriyaki restaurant for lunch. I just ordered plain brown rice - large. I ate half of that, with a few pieces of meat from my daughter's dish. I took the other half of the rice and put it away in the cooler (carried for a pot luck at the grief group). Then, at the pot luck for dinner, I put the big pile of brown rice on the plate, which crowded out most of my ability to go overboard with the other food. I just took one wing of chicken, a pile of salad, a lot of oil-free hummus I made (I did use sesame seeds to make it), carrots and sugar-snap peas, a few tablespoons of mashed potatoes (there wasn't much left), and yes, one slice of the cranberry ginger bread. I was really full but didn't really eat much other than the rice and hummus I brought myself.

I do believe in the ability of using rice and potatoes to crowd out other food. It worked really well. The hummus was great for flavoring the rice and the salad - I didn't need dressing.

I am saving a lot of money on food now!
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:37 AM   #1547
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Oh my gosh, I was just linking this article to one of my coworkers. I remember reading this a while back and praying for 21 pounds of weight loss like Chris Voigt (the WA Potato Commissioner) inadvertently experienced on his 60 day potato fast. Wow, it actually happened to me too...

Whole Health Source: Interview with Chris Voigt of 20 Potatoes a Day
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:04 AM   #1548
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A big HELLO to the new folks!
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:24 AM   #1549
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I thought I would drop in to tell you I have dropped below my stall weight.

Weighed in at 228 this morning.

How??
Have a bunch of really bad sh** happen, get into a deep depression, and employ the TDTE/UF** technique. This will get you firmly into NK. Once in NK and fbg drops to more normal levels, add back high fat food days alternating with "I need to eat some protein" days.



**WARNING..NOT RECOMMENDED**
TDTE/UF = to depressed to eat/ unintentional fasting
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:59 PM   #1550
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I thought I would drop in to tell you I have dropped below my stall weight.

Weighed in at 228 this morning.

How??
Have a bunch of really bad sh** happen, get into a deep depression, and employ the TDTE/UF** technique. This will get you firmly into NK. Once in NK and fbg drops to more normal levels, add back high fat food days alternating with "I need to eat some protein" days.



**WARNING..NOT RECOMMENDED**
TDTE/UF = to depressed to eat/ unintentional fasting
Weight loss!!! Yippeee! Sorry it came at such a high cost. Glad to see you have kept your sense of humour!!!

Been experiencing a bit of the same.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:06 PM   #1551
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DrJ,

Sorry to hear about the hard times. I can relate.

There was an entire year when the only weight loss I could eek out, unfortunately, was the method you have outlined .

Hang in there ladies.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:04 PM   #1552
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Wow. Must be going around. Feel like my whole world is about to fall apart. Spent an hour crying in the car last night. Haven't eaten much in the last few days. Terrible times.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:05 PM   #1553
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Glad to see you DrJ
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #1554
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Wow, I am so sorry, Speck.

I have had a couple of hard days. I am thinking about looking into mindfulness. A coworker of mine tried it for a while with a counselor. I haven't tried that yet.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:47 AM   #1555
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...get into a deep depression, and employ the TDTE/UF** technique. This will get you firmly into NK...
**WARNING..NOT RECOMMENDED**
TDTE/UF = to depressed to eat/ unintentional fasting
Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
Been experiencing a bit of the same.
Quote:
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Must be going around. Feel like my whole world is about to fall apart. Spent an hour crying in the car last night. Haven't eaten much in the last few days. Terrible times.
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Wow, I am so sorry, Speck.

...I am thinking about looking into mindfulness.
I'm so sorry to read this. It is such a burden even when life is relatively smooth-running but when several things go awry at once and depression or misery that won't shift set in then it makes the simplest things seem like such a trial, never mind all the stuff that people actually have to deal with in their day-to-day lives.

My best wishes to all of you.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:07 PM   #1556
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Thanks SlowSure. Things seem to be looking up. We are a sorry lot aren't we! Lol
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:53 AM   #1557
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I am off my diet today. I restarted, but work stress and anxiety are just too high, and I am not coping well. I went to my grief group last night - I had a hard time deciding whether I should go or go home and rest.

Well, this morning, I got up and found I had left the garage door open. That is the second time in the past 4 weeks.

Also, for the first time, also in the past 4 weeks, I got up and found I had left the stove on. I have almost done this, but I have never left a burner on over night.

OMG, I am worried. What is happening to me???

Free breakfast at work this morning. I decided to just give in and eat. Maybe potatoes are not enough to keep me functioning properly. I don't know.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:51 AM   #1558
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Hmm, after some googling, I think perhaps I have been potato hacking too much of the time. Chris Masterjohn reported anxiety problems on vegan diet. I am already an anxious person anyway. Maybe I should add more meat and eggs on off days, I have been lax and didn't do it while on vacation (off foods were more like sugar/frozen yogurt )

Chris Masterjohn — My Experience With Vegetarianism


My Experience With Vegetarianism
by Chris Masterjohn

Published in 2005


About six years ago, largely under the influence of John Robbin's book, Diet For a New America, I became a vegetarian. Soon after, I went vegan, meaning I abstained from all animal products, including eggs and dairy.

I thought this dietary change would lead me to a paradise of abundant health, but I was sadly mistaken.

It was my understanding that since saturated fat and cholesterol were the cause of heart disease, abstaining from both would grant me a virtual guarantee of a healthy heart into old age. Surely a cholesterol-free diet that was also extremely low in saturated fat would make me the epitome of health.

In addition, I ate a considerable amount of soy. Since the FDA recommended 25 g of soy protein to reduce the risk of heart disease, I was yet more confident that I would maintain life-long, vibrant health.

Yet over the first year that I was vegetarian, my health declined. The problems that I had with anxiety since I was an early teen aggravated to the point where I was afraid to eat the food in my house or drive away in my car.

Even performing aerobic exercise such as running stimulated anxiety. I became socially closed-off, and began having occasional irrational bursts of anger.

In the second year of being vegetarian, I began having several full-blown panic attacks per week that were becoming disabling. I was overall lethargic and apathetic. And then, I went to the dentist and was struck with the final blow.

Fifteen cavities, and two dead teeth needing root canals! How could this be? I had been sure that, since eating animal protein was what caused the body to acidify and leach calcium from bones and teeth, I would be immune to tooth decay. And the phytoestrogens in soy that supposedly help assimilate calcium should have been an extra defense, sealing shut for good the possiblity of a cavity.

Yet there it was. Tooth decay. And not just any tooth decay-- massive tooth decay.

During this time period, I was starting to lose my zeal for vegetarianism. I slowly began to add in wild salmon, free-range eggs, and some milk into my diet. None of these appeared to improve my health a great deal. That is, until I added red meat.

That Christmas I decided to partake of the meat at my family's feast. For the past couple months, I'd been suffering from cravings for red meat, including smelling it when it wasn't even there. So I gorged. I ate lots of red meat, and ate it every day.

Within two weeks, my panic attacks completely stopped. For good.

Yet I still had phobias, and some characteristics of obsessive-compulsive disorder, similar to what I had before becoming vegetarian. But I was soon to discover some nutritional insights that would lead to a revolutionary, anxiety-free life.

At this time, my boss, Wayne Kirley, handed me a pamphlet on the benefits of raw milk. This pamphlet led me to www.RealMilk.com, where I was introduced to the Weston A. Price Foundation , the work of Weston A. Price, and the cookbook Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon.

Weston Price was a dentist-turned-nutritional-anthropologist who traveled the world in the 1930s studying many different isolated, non-modernized populations, whom he often went through great lengths to contact, who were immune to tooth decay. He studied what they ate, how they maintained their soil fertility, and how that corresponded to their tooth decay rates.

Many of the groups he studied had tooth decay rates that were near zero, despite some of them having no form of cleaning teeth. He devised a diet for his patients that emphasized raw milk, bone broths with meats and vegetables, cod liver oil, a centrifuged butter oil, unrefined wheat, and cooked vegetables and fruits, and was actually able to reverse tooth decay in his patients, and provided x-ray pictures to prove it.

All of this is detailed in his epic classic, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.

Since I had such massive, vegetarianism-induced tooth decay, I felt like I had struck a gold mine. I began putting into practice the nutritional advice of Weston Price and the Weston A. Price Foundation, and used Sally Fallon's Nourishing Traditions to help me put it all in order.

Not only did my tooth decay cease after these changes, but after some time every trace of my anxiety problems disappeared! I felt like a new person, like I was a one-man revolution from the inside out.

The Weston Price paradigm puts a great emphasis on animal products. After becoming familiar with this paradigm, I began to aim at a minimum of egg yolks to eat per day rather than a maximum, now unafraid of the cholesterol. Weston Price extolled the benefits of butter and cream, which became staples in my diet. Bone broths, cod liver oil, and the inclusion of raw animal foods such as milk and even some meat made great improvements in my health.

Now, I am a new person. My tooth decay has stopped, and my anxiety problems are over. Eating foods rich in quality animal products raised with care has given me more energy, vitality, and well-being than I have ever had!

Now I lift weights, and work out with kettlebells, which offer intense and challenging exercise that I can live up to with my rich and supportive diet.

I also have gained an overwhelming desire to research nutrition and biochemistry to learn the truth about how the foods we eat affect our health. I have been gravely misled in the past, and I feel a debt of gratitude to Weston Price, Sally Fallon, the Weston A Price Foundation, and everyone on the front lines, battling against what Michael Miles calls "The War on Good Food."

After reading The Cholesterol Myths (a book of which I have now made a number of criticisms) by Dr. Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD, I have come to realize how unfairly maligned cholesterol has been among mainstream health circles. I learned that cholesterol's connection to heart disease is much more controversial than it is made out to be, and that many of the claims made about cholesterol and saturated fat are dubious and not supported by research.

Thus, it has become my mission to promote the truth about cholesterol, the unsung hero of brain and body. I hope you find this website informative, and compelling, and enjoy its fresh, research-supported perspective. Thanks to Site Build It! I have been able to spread this information to over 20,000 new people per month.

I hope you enjoy the site!

Sincerely,
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:31 PM   #1559
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What a motivational passage.
KT, I think maybe your diet-induced stress (and let's face it, dieting induces physiological and psychological stresses) plus your day-to-day stress has overwhelmed you. Consider potato hacking intermittently. Perhaps eating a health-promoting lower carb diet to maintain for a while, maybe a few weeks, then rotating back onto the potatoes to lose more weight for another couple weeks, then back to "normal", etc., would work for you.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:44 PM   #1560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speck333 View Post
What a motivational passage.
KT, I think maybe your diet-induced stress (and let's face it, dieting induces physiological and psychological stresses) plus your day-to-day stress has overwhelmed you. Consider potato hacking intermittently. Perhaps eating a health-promoting lower carb diet to maintain for a while, maybe a few weeks, then rotating back onto the potatoes to lose more weight for another couple weeks, then back to "normal", etc., would work for you.
Speck,

You are so right. I can't handle dieting right now, and I have run myself off into the ditch!

I have heard I should not be potato hacking as much as I have been. The allure of weight loss and getting under 200 pounds has really taken me in. I really do need some time on some meat and eggs! A few weeks sounds good and will get me through this crunch time of quarter end at work.

Sigh...I feel better already. I think I will eat some eggs in the morning!
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