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Old 02-14-2013, 08:24 PM   #1351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobear View Post
Just checking in. My good news is from my opthamologist. Pressure in my eyes which had been high is now normal. Retinopathy in left eye has cleared up, but right still has a small amount. He is concerned about my extremely dry eye condition and has prescribed steroid drops for 1 month and Restatis which will be long term. In the week I've been doing the drops, my eyes have improved a little. I do wonder if the steroid drops will affect my diabetes, but I have to get the inflammation under control. Interestingly he has recommended to my PCP to screen for Sjorgens (sp?). I also suffer from severe dry mouth at night.

That is the only good news. I have been logging for a week now and am averaging 55g of protein a day, and about 1350-1400 calories. Carbs are at 25g, 'fat is about 120g. This is only a tiny bit (6g) over the protein I was eating in November (when I was losing) and I am GAINING. I am up to 191.4 this morning and could just scream

I've tested for NK several mornings and have not gotten anything other than "low".

I just feel like a total failure and that I am never going to figure this mess out. I go to the endo at the end of February, but honestly just feel like this will be another deadend.

If I could maintain on what I am doing right now, I would be happy with it. That doesn't seem to be possible since I am slowly gaining. I really liked LC without worrying so much about the protein. This is just a huge chore of constantly being hungry and feeling deprived.

I am sorry this is so negative....I just feel like all hope is lost.
I'm so sorry, Maureen. Since the LCHF is not serving you well, does it make any sense to go back to LC and not worry so much about the protein? Were you able to maintain on that, or were you gaining on LC? Being constantly hungry, feeling deprived, having to be so careful in terms of tracking and planning, and still gaining seems like a perfect storm of misery.

Being diabetic really does limit your choices--since JUDDD is too risky, for example. Would a potato hack also be impossible for you? Peter Attia advises against potato hacking for diabetics, but it has worked well for Key Tones-- maybe how insulin-dependent one is matters a lot?

I've been reading a thread on Mark's Daily Apple on "The Potato Diet: Criticisms and Metabolic Theory," and one thing that is striking is the number of people there who note that their weight loss stalled longterm on low carb and on LCHF. So we stalled but determined women are not alone ...

My weight is back to the low 180s, which means I haven't accomplished any weight loss on NK plus JUDDD for the past 6 weeks. I know that I've sabotaged myself by a number of work days where I put in 18+ hours and got very little sleep, spiking my cortisol and getting super hungry and going above my calorie limits, but sometimes I can only stay on top of the requirements of my job by doing those near-all-nighter work stints.

I'm considering a potato hack myself, following Key Tones' brave example. I have about a month with minimal social obligations, so I'm thinking about trying a potato hack for a week next week, and see how it goes. I was planning to try a dairy-free month, anyway, and the potato hack would be sans dairy. I hope to get enough work done over the weekend to get back to something like workdays of 12 hours or less and 8 hours of sleep every night, which I really need to lose weight and be disciplined about what I eat (though I never stop doing lowcarb). I know that around 180 is a natural set-point for me, and I'm hoping that a potato hack (and more sleep) might help me get past that.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:25 PM   #1352
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Hi everyone.....seems like we have some progress in good areas going on.

Maureen, I'm so glad the eye issues are diminishing! Excellent. Sorry about the weight gain...that's what happened to me when I was weighing/measuring/tracking and being "perfect" in what I put in my mouth...ended up after about 6 months with a 5# gain... and so I stopped the NK eating. I feel much happier to not be doing so much focusing on my food and mouth!

KT...seems you are doing well on those darned potatoes and you seem content and happy.

drjlocarb....when is your cruise or whatever it is that you are going on...in May? Geez... that will be here before you know it if I am remembering correctly. Today is 1/2 way through February!

Did I tell you all that I bought a shiny silver (tape) hula hoop?!?! I am no good. But I've been practicing every day for 4 days now and today got it to go "round and round" 6 revolutions!!! It wears me out!! Unreal how high my pulse goes in the attempt to move my hips! ha ha (true) Great cardio!

How are the rest of you doing?
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:34 PM   #1353
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Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
I'm so sorry, Maureen. Since the LCHF is not serving you well, does it make any sense to go back to LC and not worry so much about the protein? Were you able to maintain on that, or were you gaining on LC? Being constantly hungry, feeling deprived, having to be so careful in terms of tracking and planning, and still gaining seems like a perfect storm of misery.

Being diabetic really does limit your choices--since JUDDD is too risky, for example. Would a potato hack also be impossible for you? Peter Attia advises against potato hacking for diabetics, but it has worked well for Key Tones-- maybe how insulin-dependent one is matters a lot?

I've been reading a thread on Mark's Daily Apple on "The Potato Diet: Criticisms and Metabolic Theory," and one thing that is striking is the number of people there who note that their weight loss stalled longterm on low carb and on LCHF. So we stalled but determined women are not alone ...

My weight is back to the low 180s, which means I haven't accomplished any weight loss on NK plus JUDDD for the past 6 weeks. I know that I've sabotaged myself by a number of work days where I put in 18+ hours and got very little sleep, spiking my cortisol and getting super hungry and going above my calorie limits, but sometimes I can only stay on top of the requirements of my job by doing those near-all-nighter work stints.

I'm considering a potato hack myself, following Key Tones' brave example. I have about a month with minimal social obligations, so I'm thinking about trying a potato hack for a week next week, and see how it goes. I was planning to try a dairy-free month, anyway, and the potato hack would be sans dairy. I hope to get enough work done over the weekend to get back to something like workdays of 12 hours or less and 8 hours of sleep every night, which I really need to lose weight and be disciplined about what I eat (though I never stop doing lowcarb). I know that around 180 is a natural set-point for me, and I'm hoping that a potato hack (and more sleep) might help me get past that.
Ah...good minds thing alike svenskamae....wondering if all the tracking, etc. is focusing too much on food and stressing Maureen out...that's exactly what it did to me apparently and I'm much happier without all that, but being wise about what I eat and only eating when hungry.

Svenskamae....you are working very hard and long hours.....I did that once for 5 months and burned myself out, so please be careful and make sure you take good care of yourself!

So....I have a question. I have not looked into the potato hack eating plan, but I have always heard that potatoes cause inflammation in the body. And inflammation causes joint pain (which I have as I'm "old"!) ha ha So, what is it about this potato hack thing that fascinates you??? I can't imagine eating that way at all, but, as I said, i haven't looked into it at all.

Today was our 34th anniversary and DH took me out to breakfast. I had a 3 egg omelet with bacon, spinach, mushrooms, onions and mozzarella. It was fabulous! (I had it with no toast or potatoes....I should have gotten the yummy potatoes and sent them to KT!!!!!!)
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:32 PM   #1354
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Shelley, very cool about your getting the hula hoop to work with practice. I'm sure you'll be a hula hoop phenom if you keep working at it. It probably is great core exercise; I tried it a few times as a kid and couldn't get it to work at all.

Joint pain hasn't been an issue for me, fortunately, so I don't think that has to keep me away from a trial potato hack. Increasing my fish consumption (Omega 3s) (anchovies, sardines, salmon, salmon roe, etc) has been the main way I've been trying to limit inflammation. I'm just really irritated at being at stalled despite doing nutritional ketosis AND JUDDD, and hope that the potato hack might help me get me past this current stall.
I'm going to try to be a purist and stick to just potatoes, bone broth, and seasoning but no fat. A couple of the theories about why potato hacks work for some people are: 1) resistent starch (i.e., cold potatoes) are good for building up good gut flora and 2) in the absence of fat eaten, the body will draw on body fat as needed to digest the potatoes. I figure a week or two of potato hacking might help and won't hurt--especially for a part-Irish woman like me. And I won't do the potato hack while working ridiculously long hours and not sleeping enough.

I think I'd like to end a potato hack with an omelet like Shelley had for breakfast--yum!

I don't think I could stand to follow discussion on paleo sites like Mark's Daily Apple regularly--lots of snarky comments and people (men, especially) with big egos. People play much nicer on LCF, even in the main lobby.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:33 AM   #1355
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I'm not quite as wild today as I was yesterday. Sorry for all the ranting, but honestly I was just very upset!

Yes, I was happy some of the retinopathy which showed up in 2012 has now cleared up. I'm hopeful maybe the issue in my right eye might improve. Now I am wondering whether the inflammation which the doctor saw in both my eyes could be causing problems with weight loss but that seems very improbable. Key Tones I am wondering if LC has made this situation worse!

I really wish I could just go back to straight LC, but I am gaining doing that. Actually the entire time that I've been stalled the carbs have been under 30g total a day. Since I got down to 185 in November, the only thing that has really changed is slightly more protein (6or 7g) and sometimes a little more fat. The week before Christmas I did eat a lot more protein and fat and that really seems to have messed me up. Yesterday I go the protein down to 45g and I am hoping to do the same today.

Svenskamae I am so sorry you aren't losing with NK/JUDDD. Maybe you would have luck with the potato hack. I am too scared to try it. Almost sent myself to the hospital with blood glucose of 35 when I tried JUDDD, so I'm not trying the potato hack. I am thrilled for Key Tones being able to lose with the potato hack but one big difference between us is she is insulin resistant and I am insulin resistant and diabetic and injecting insulin.

I did request the book about "7 Principles of Fat Burning" from my library. I am trying hard not to buy more books - some of which I only glance through

Shelley I had a hulahoop when I was a kid and loved playing with it. I got fairly good - and then the fad passed and I quit. Maybe I'll get one for this summer and play with it in my yard. By the way I did like Spokane...my trip in 2007 was better than 2010. By 2010 my knees both needed replaced and I was in a lot pain. But they did put on a great Nationals and I enjoyed both stays. If you want to see some good figure skating the World Championships from London Ontario will be on NBC on March 24. If you receive any Canadian channels you might want to check them since they will offer more coverage than NBC.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:41 AM   #1356
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You should never feel bad about expressing frustration here, Maureen; this thread should definitely be a safe place for that, and we all need to take of advantage of that and get support from each other.

I think it's possible that inflammation is a factor in preventing weight loss and is certainly something to try to avoid, for one's general health.

One approach to lowering inflammation is to try to increase the ratio of omega 3s to omega 6s in oils. I imagine we are all avoiding the unhealthy polyunsaturated vegetable oils, wheat, sugar, etc. already. Here are some foods high in omega 3 fats:
Fish: Wildcaught salmon, anchovies, sardines, lake trout are especially high.
Flaxseed oil (I use it in cilantro pesto and sometimes in salad dressings)
Flaxseeds (I use Flackers crackers as my bread substitute)
Spinach
Walnuts and cold-pressed walnut oil in salad dressings
Sesame seeds (I make salad dressing out of tahini, olive oil, and lemon juice)
Pumpkin seeds

Probiotics (such as lacto fermented vegetables and Greek yogurt with active cultures) are supposed to be helpful if inflammation is based in gut problems.

Food intolerances are also supposed to be factors in inflammation for some people and can block weight loss. I'm giving up dairy for a month to test for intolerance to it. The most common sources of food intolerance are milk, eggs, tree nuts, soy, wheat, fish and shellfish, corn, soy, peanuts, and seeds (sesame/sunflower).

Some but not all people have inflammation problems with plants from the nightshade family: potatoes, tomatoes, eggplants, and peppers.

Antioxidents in dark leafy vegetables (such as collards, kale, and chard) are supposed to be helpful in reducing inflammation.

Maybe some of these things would help a little bit with reducing inflammation.

Last edited by svenskamae; 02-15-2013 at 04:43 AM..
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:43 PM   #1357
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Originally Posted by Mobear View Post
I'm not quite as wild today as I was yesterday. Sorry for all the ranting, but honestly I was just very upset!

I really wish I could just go back to straight LC, but I am gaining doing that. Actually the entire time that I've been stalled the carbs have been under 30g total a day. Since I got down to 185 in November, the only thing that has really changed is slightly more protein (6or 7g) and sometimes a little more fat. The week before Christmas I did eat a lot more protein and fat and that really seems to have messed me up. Yesterday I go the protein down to 45g and I am hoping to do the same today.

Shelley I had a hulahoop when I was a kid and loved playing with it. I got fairly good - and then the fad passed and I quit. Maybe I'll get one for this summer and play with it in my yard. By the way I did like Spokane...my trip in 2007 was better than 2010. By 2010 my knees both needed replaced and I was in a lot pain. But they did put on a great Nationals and I enjoyed both stays. If you want to see some good figure skating the World Championships from London Ontario will be on NBC on March 24. If you receive any Canadian channels you might want to check them since they will offer more coverage than NBC.
Maureen.....do try to find a hula hoop...got mine at Goodwill for 99 cents! Already scuffed up from it falling on the ground, so when mine falls and hits the tile, I don't care!

I think it's all very interesting how different we are. I lose weight with obviously low carbs, but not high fat and definitely need more protein than less! Go figure. It's what makes us different I guess. Thanks for the heads up on the World Championships...I think we get a couple Canadian channels so will check with that (we are an hours drive or so from Canada). Thanks!

So sorry about your knees.....my knees is the reason I retired from teaching dance. I didn't want the surgery.

And I totally and completely agree with svenskamae about your sharing of how you are feeling/thinking. You are not ranting and I doubt any of us saw it that way. We are a small group and that's what makes it special. And we all care about each other, so not to worry. If you can't voice your thoughts here, then we are a sad bunch! We are all here to support one another!

Quote:
Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
Here are some foods high in omega 3 fats:
Fish: Wildcaught salmon, anchovies, sardines, lake trout are especially high.
Flaxseed oil (I use it in cilantro pesto and sometimes in salad dressings)
Flaxseeds (I use Flackers crackers as my bread substitute)


** I am hypothyroid and have been told to avoid flax as well as soy as they react negatively.......have read that in a few places**

Spinach
Walnuts and cold-pressed walnut oil in salad dressings
Sesame seeds (I make salad dressing out of tahini, olive oil, and lemon juice)
Pumpkin seeds

Probiotics (such as lacto fermented vegetables and Greek yogurt with active cultures) are supposed to be helpful if inflammation is based in gut problems.

**I love my greek yogurt, but have it unfrequently as I could eat it all the time.**

Food intolerances are also supposed to be factors in inflammation for some people and can block weight loss. I'm giving up dairy for a month to test for intolerance to it. The most common sources of food intolerance are milk, eggs, tree nuts, soy, wheat, fish and shellfish, corn, soy, peanuts, and seeds (sesame/sunflower).

**I have been tested for gluten and lactose and am more intolerant with lactose than anything, yet if I drink raw milk I'm fine...and 40% HWC is okay too. But eggs....I am discovering that I don't think my body cares for them a lot. After my 3 egg omelet yesterday I started feeling "ill", but a bunch of sea salt on my hand *chugged* seems to have done the trick, so maybe not the eggs? I don't do well with peanut butter and it's a shame because of used to love that stuff...but it's a legume and not a nut! **

Some but not all people have inflammation problems with plants from the nightshade family: potatoes, tomatoes, eggplants, and peppers.

**The nightshade family is definitely a no no for people with thyroid issues. However, in the potato family, I can do a bit of sweet potatoes/yams for a special occasion and not have a reaction, but definitely not often. The rest are not good for me unless a few tomatoes are cooked. **

Antioxidents in dark leafy vegetables (such as collards, kale, and chard) are supposed to be helpful in reducing inflammation.

Maybe some of these things would help a little bit with reducing inflammation.
Thanks for the list of foods svenskamae...wish I could warm up to kale. I've tried it so many ways and always end up tossing the stuff out for the deer to eat! Just too bitter for me.

I need to do more research on flax and hypothyroid..... I found lots of great recipes for things made with flax ground up to use in place of flour. I know my stepdad takes 1/4 cup of it every single morning with water...that's it. Nothing else added. He's 89 and is very healthy and mentally alert too. Great man. All his health issues hit him around 50....Type 2 diabetic, colon cancer, weight gain. then he started checking out health things and now he's able to eat many foods he didn't/couldn't before...no longer takes insulin and is doing quite well.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:10 PM   #1358
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Thanks for the comments on thyroid issues for some of those anti-inflammation foods, Shelley. I know that hypothyroid is probably an issue for several people here.

I find chard--golden, rainbow, ruby, and Swiss varieties--much less bitter than kale, and it has some of the same healthy properties. I cut the leaves into ribbons, chop the stems, and saute the whole thing with bacon or pancetta, which add a nice flavor.

Sounds like your stepdad has had great success in improving his health. Let us know if any of the things he is doing to control diabetes, address weight gain, etc. could be tried by those of us here.

I noticed an interesting post by Juliekaboolie on the main board, about how she needed to experiment with upping carbs from safe starches and fruits to feel well and how she started losing again after an 18 month stall--very heartening that she's found a good plan for her, and a nice message about how we all have to find what works for us an individuals.

Shelley, you could try giving up eggs for 3 weeks and then introduce them again for 1 meal to see if they make you feel ill. You might possibly do better with duck eggs than chicken eggs, too; sometimes if we shift the source of supply (say, to goat's milk cheese rather than cow's milk cheese, or to duck eggs rather than chicken eggs), the food intolerance disappears. With an omelet in a restaurant, the problem could have come from many things, including the oil used to cook the eggs, so perhaps eggs aren't the real culprit. I hope not, since they are such a staple lowcarb food.

Addendum: If people have issues with lactose intolerance, it may be worth checking out whether you do better with raw milk cheeses. It's pretty hard to find a raw milk supplier, unless you know a dairy farmer personally and can buy raw milk "for your pets" (what is allowed by law in most states). But there are lots of delicious raw milk cheeses, both imported (French) and domestic. I've been making a point of buying raw milk cheeses when I buy cheese, because the health benefits are supposed to be much greater in raw milk than in pasteurized milk.

Last edited by svenskamae; 02-15-2013 at 02:18 PM..
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:34 PM   #1359
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OK, if you're going to do hula hoops, loud music (ABBA) and some LED lights in the hoop are the ticket.


Also, a big enough hoop is important. Most of the ones in stores are for tiny kid waists!

Last edited by Key Tones; 02-15-2013 at 03:35 PM..
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:40 PM   #1360
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I'm not getting on the scale until tomorrow or the next day! I took Valentine's Day off.

I am having to endure potato jokes, that is for sure! It is funny how I like these things best just super plain, sliced right out of the microwave. Someone thought I should have Irish potato candy. OMG...as if I would eat anything other than chocolate!
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:34 PM   #1361
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Hi everyone! I've been reading along on my phone whenever I can. Work is absolutely eating up all my time. I'm hanging in there. No major mishaps. I haven't lost anymore weight since my initial few pound drop I had when I got back on plan 5 weeks ago. Sadly I seem to be stalled with a 10 pound gain this time.
I'm going to take up running again. It probably won't help - didn't last time - but I've got to try something else and I'm so tired of being so food focused. Plus there's this sad lite self masochistic side of me that wants to punish myself for being fat and gaining even more weight last year. Sick. I know.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:37 PM   #1362
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OK, if you're going to do hula hoops, loud music (ABBA) and some LED lights in the hoop are the ticket.

Also, a big enough hoop is important. Most of the ones in stores are for tiny kid waists!
Yes yes yes....this is what I discovered...I need a larger and weighted hoop. Loved the youtube with the lights and talents of others that you sent. Made me laugh.

You'll laugh to know that at today's weekly weigh/measure, I was excited to do my waist/abs....well gain of a bit on both...guess the hula hoop and leaning over to pick it up constantly did nothing to whittle the waist in 5 days!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
I'm not getting on the scale until tomorrow or the next day! I took Valentine's Day off.

I am having to endure potato jokes, that is for sure! It is funny how I like these things best just super plain, sliced right out of the microwave. Someone thought I should have Irish potato candy. OMG...as if I would eat anything other than chocolate!
Too funny!!!! How did your weigh in go? How was your "potato candy"? Did you find a recipe for that!

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Originally Posted by Speck333 View Post
Sadly I seem to be stalled with a 10 pound gain this time.
I'm going to take up running again. It probably won't help - didn't last time - but I've got to try something else and I'm so tired of being so food focused. Plus there's this sad lite self masochistic side of me that wants to punish myself for being fat and gaining even more weight last year. Sick. I know.
No no no...don't punish yourself. Only run if you love it. Running hurts the joints/knees and you'll no doubt pay for it when you get my age with knee and hip replacements! I'm stalled at 5# up from when I started the end of August. But I made a deal with myself that as long as I'm healthy and happy, I am not going to fret horribly over the scale or tape measurer any more. Just depresses me and gets me focused on food! I don't want to focus on weighing/measuring any more. I'm actually up 5# from the start, but down 1.8# from when I stopped my obsession with the NK stuff of how many grams/calories/blood testing, etc. Feels so much better now and I laugh a lot more. I like this life better....at least as long as I don't gain another 5#. So, I understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post

I find chard--golden, rainbow, ruby, and Swiss varieties--much less bitter than kale, and it has some of the same healthy properties. I cut the leaves into ribbons, chop the stems, and saute the whole thing with bacon or pancetta, which add a nice flavor.

**Thanks...I'll look for those next time I go to the store! Sounds good the way you describe it!**

Sounds like your stepdad has had great success in improving his health. Let us know if any of the things he is doing to control diabetes, address weight gain, etc. could be tried by those of us here.

**It's a subject we talk about all the time. He has given up all grains and only enjoys a taste when going out with friends. He gave up all alcohol for years, but now has a drink 1 night a week when the friends (80's-90's) go out for "burn your steak night!" Love it. He's enjoying life! But I can't get past his morning flax. Yuck.**

I noticed an interesting post by Juliekaboolie on the main board, about how she needed to experiment with upping carbs from safe starches and fruits to feel well and how she started losing again after an 18 month stall--very heartening that she's found a good plan for her, and a nice message about how we all have to find what works for us an individuals.

**I remember her from years ago on the thyroid forum. I was advised to raise my carbs, and not along the Atkins ladder, but similarly. I also needed to be above 30 to feel better, and I needed to reduce my fats....but I have no clue where I am now on grams and calories. I might get back to tracking in another week or two, but right now I'm really enjoying having 1/2 grapefruit for breakfast, a gluten free piece of bread maybe once a week. Just adding a bit here and there to see how I feel. I have discovered the BPC with tea makes me feel sick to my stomach. Too much protein makes me sick to my stomach. So, it's interesting to pay attention with each meal for me right now.**

Shelley, you could try giving up eggs for 3 weeks and then introduce them again for 1 meal to see if they make you feel ill. You might possibly do better with duck eggs than chicken eggs, too; sometimes if we shift the source of supply (say, to goat's milk cheese rather than cow's milk cheese, or to duck eggs rather than chicken eggs), the food intolerance disappears. With an omelet in a restaurant, the problem could have come from many things, including the oil used to cook the eggs, so perhaps eggs aren't the real culprit. I hope not, since they are such a staple lowcarb food.

**You are so right about everything above. I have just decided to eliminate the eggs for a while to see how I feel. And I've noticed that I seem to have an upset stomach after eating most anything of late. And then I seem to be fine once the time passes by....very odd. Maybe I'm to fast??? NO WAY for me! Also, I have a really bad reaction with goat items....tried that under doctors guidance years ago and it was bad...he was surprised as goat milk, cheese, protein is supposed to be the most hypoallergenic stuff...not for me. I had the same issues with the filler that is most hypoallergenic for compounded thyroid meds....horrible for me...avicel or something like that.**

Addendum: If people have issues with lactose intolerance, it may be worth checking out whether you do better with raw milk cheeses. It's pretty hard to find a raw milk supplier, unless you know a dairy farmer personally and can buy raw milk "for your pets" (what is allowed by law in most states). But there are lots of delicious raw milk cheeses, both imported (French) and domestic. I've been making a point of buying raw milk cheeses when I buy cheese, because the health benefits are supposed to be much greater in raw milk than in pasteurized milk.
I haven't seen any raw milk cheeses, but will look....great idea. I do great with the new Idaho law allowing raw milk to finally be sold in stores! So, I've been going through a 1/2 gallon a week for little ol' me.....I am loving it in protein shakes. Whenever I'm on the go, I fill a shaker bottle with the raw milk, a few ice cubes to keep it cool (even though it's about 35 degrees here) and then take a container with a scoop of protein powder (whey). So, if I get hungry (rather *when*), I just dump the powder into the shaker bottle, shake and drink, and then I'm good to go for another 4 hours or so. But I'll look for imported raw milk cheeses. Great idea!
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:41 PM   #1363
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Hi Shelley,

Thanks for asking. Valentine's Day turned into a 3-day hiatus. There was a lot of chocolate involved (I throw rocks at potato candy!) and a housewarming party on Saturday. I was back on the potato hack yesterday. I finally got my act together and went to a friend's house with a container of mashed potatoes plain. I just have to accept doing odd things like that. I will wait to weigh in on Friday on the honey badgers thread.

I had some pho as well as rice dishes instead of potatoes during the 3 days. That doesn't work as well as potatoes. Starch is not starch; there is something about potatoes that is very filling.

I read about making mashed potatoes (plain, nothing in them) with bone broth. OK, that really works for me. I don't like the taste of marrow unforunately. I thought the beef broth was great until the marrow flavor came out. The chicken broth was still acceptable after stewing in the crock pot all day and night and made a firm gelatin, which I think is a good sign, so I think I will just have to stick with chicken bones. I bought turkey necks from the mexican grocer but I have a feeling that will not work but I'll find out.

I really do have the dragonfly hoop in the video - I got it for my daughter. I would never be able to spend that much now, and I don't know where the charger is for it now . I bought a weighted hoop on Amazon and it gave us bruises even though it was padded, so I would have to steer you away from really heavy ones. I thought it would be good exercise - sigh. I even put on a padded coat and ended up with more bruises.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:46 PM   #1364
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Hi everyone! I've been reading along on my phone whenever I can. Work is absolutely eating up all my time. I'm hanging in there. No major mishaps. I haven't lost anymore weight since my initial few pound drop I had when I got back on plan 5 weeks ago. Sadly I seem to be stalled with a 10 pound gain this time.
I'm going to take up running again. It probably won't help - didn't last time - but I've got to try something else and I'm so tired of being so food focused. Plus there's this sad lite self masochistic side of me that wants to punish myself for being fat and gaining even more weight last year. Sick. I know.
Hang in there, Speck. Please don't kick yourself.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:29 PM   #1365
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Hi, Shelley. I think that it's a great idea to listen to your body and NOT eat in a way that makes you feel sick to your stomach, even if "hypothetically" lots of protein or lots of fat is supposed to work. I ate salad with some store-bought blue cheese dressing made with one of the nasty polyunsaturated oils (soybean maybe) and had an upset stomach for 2 days, so I've not doing that again. I hope you are able to find some healthy foods you like that don't cause an upset stomach. Have you tried testing the effect of using various kinds of cooking oils (olive oil versus coconut oil versus butter/ghee)? If you were reacting badly to a cooking oil, that could make you feel ill after a wide range of dishes, but the problem would lie in the oil rather than the other ingredients.

Thanks for further potato hack updates, Key Tones. I have no potatoes at home, but I plan to pick some up tomorrow morning and start my own potato hack for a week, with bone broth, plain tea, and fermented cabbage/veggies allowed as supplemental ingredients. I hope I get results like yours!

I had a grim weekend of working way too much, sleeping way too little, drinking diet soda (very stupid, it always makes me hungry) and eating way too much (which happens when I let cortisol spike from sleep deprivation and stress). My weight was back up to 183 today, and I'm having a fluids only day (bone broth, tea with half and half, lemon water), which feels like a relief. And I did get largely caught up on my work backlog, so I hope I don't have to do another weekend like that for quite some time.

Tomorrow I start trying the combination of potato hack (for a week) and making sure that I get 8 hours sleep a night and avoiding dairy (for a month). I'll see how a week on potatoes goes for me; if I lose weight on it, I'll try extending it, with some breaks for social occasions, and possibly adding eggs or liver at a separate meal (breakfast, probably, then liquid fasting, then potato dinner). I'll keep you all posted on how it goes.

Have a good week, everyone.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:49 PM   #1366
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Oh my gosh...you two (Svenskamae and KT) are making my stomach hurt just reading about only having potatoes! I just cannot in my wildest dreams imagine going there! ha ha But glad you like it KT and it's working for you. Will be interesting to see what Svenskamae says after a week.

Last night I went to bed, closed my eyes and felt like I was on a boat. Oops...not a good sign. I got up and took some oscillococcinum and did eventually get to sleep. Woke feeling "icky", but not sick. Same thing. That motion sickness feeling. So, I stayed home (today was quilting for newly diagnosed breast cancer patients...I'm in a group that makes quilts for those women). Still feel bizarre and am "guessing" that it might be a virus and because I'm a "clean eater", that I get a very low grade version? Anyway, I'm okay...just feel "off".

KT...glad you had fun for Valentines and didn't eat potato candy after all!!!!

Svenskamae......glad you are going to try to get more rest and perhaps not have to work so much/many hours. I feel guilty that I'm retired and "do what I want" for the most part.

Happy Presidents Days week to you all!
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:22 PM   #1367
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Shelley - how wonderful - quilt making! My daughter received one at grief camp. It has beautiful floral patches mixed in with these blue water color-stained patches opposite a countryside scene (solid, the entire way on that side). I think the quilt, knitted shawl, and stuffed animals were such wonderful gifts.

Svenska - good luck, and hang in there. I don't know what people mean by a rough first day on the potato hack. It makes me instantly feel good. Maybe it is because I start light and don't usually eat breakfast, so all is clear (no carbs too close to meat/fat). I eat when hungry and I don't try to control it. If I need two meals close together, I tend to go a really long stretch before hungry again. It seems to be self-regulating.

I found dairy withdrawal hard and made many swings at it. I have finally broken free. I think the hack helps.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:54 AM   #1368
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Good morning stalled but determined friends! I'm still plugging along. I've given up my mac nuts, tomato, and peppers for a little while. Don't know if that will help the inflammation issue or not. About a year ago I gave up cheese and cream for a month or so, but noticed no difference or problem when I started eating them again.

I don't know if I have a thyroid problem (see the endo next week) but was thinking about adding some flax muffins. I used to make a OMM with flax, but that recipe has way too much protein. Found something that sounds good on Linda Sue's website, so I may try that. I wish I could find an oil that I like for salad dressing. Olive oil is ok, but I hate that I have to remember to take it out of the fridge so it isn't solid.

I don't shop very often at Trader Joe's but maybe I could find walnut oil there and give it a try. I did find Kerrygold at a supermarket which I go once in a while, but wow the price $3.99/8oz is an awful price. Is that a normal price?? I did buy some of the Kerrygold and have been using it sparingly for a few things I make for myself. DH doesn't care about LC or organic so he gets the "normal" supermarket stuff

Shelley I wish I could just do LC and stop all the rest, but I don't want to gain any more weight!! My knees got so bad that walking 65feet to the mailbox was overwhelming for me. I feel a lot better since I had the surgery.

Svenskamae thanks for the reminder about inflammation. I like sardines and need to put those back in my diet and start making my own mayo again. Good luck with giving up the cheese. I did it in early 2012, but it was tough.

Speck333 please stop beating yourself up!! There is nothing easy or simple in the quest for better health and weight loss for so many of us. This has really been a struggle, and I don't see an end in sight! I just know that I can't really just give up or the weight will all come back. I decided that for St. Patrick's Day I making the Reuben casserole recipe you posted a year or so ago. I love corned beef, and I am really looking forward to having some - my DH doesn't care for it - and I am thrilled.....more for me

Key Tones, I am thrilled your potato hack is working for you!! Sounds like you had a little splurge over Valentines Day, but are getting back on track. Good for you.

I noticed that action on the NK thread has really dropped off. Buffy is posting on one of the challenge threads (I think) but is still trying to get back on her feet. Guess Kristn is really busy with work. What is scary to me is that some folks that were losing seem to be stopped again. I do think that lowering the protein helps me reduce the amount of insulin I inject which maybe why I lost a few pounds in November/early December. The few times I tested for NK I only got "low" readings, so who knows if NK really matters for me?? So confusing.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:19 AM   #1369
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Maureen, I keep my salad dressings out on my kitchen counter and my olive oil in the cupboard, and I haven't had any problems with that. I have used sesame oil in Asian-style salad dressings and avocado oil and walnut oil in salad dressings as a change from olive oil.

I was hoping to start my potato hack today, but it's just too brutally cold (30 below windchill) for me to walk to the store to buy potatoes. So I'm doing another fluids only (bone broth and tea with half and half) down day today, instead. It's supposed to be warmer (into the teens) on Thursday, so maybe I dare venture to the store then. In the interim, it's fluids and cab rides to where I absolutely have to go for me.

Anyone who ascribes obesity to gluttony and sloth and lack of self control should have to live our stalled but determined lives! Potato hacks, fluid fasts, severely limiting carbs and protein, making everything (even mayo and salad dressing) from scratch, long bike rides and running and other forms of exercise, refraining regretfully from exercise (my case), giving up other categories of foods (dairy, nightshades, etc.) ... we are the very model of self-control around here, and none of us should be beating herself up for occasionally deviating from plan or not losing weight. I think that resistence to weight loss is actually a huge and under-recognized problem that is largely ignored, and that many things may stop working for many people after a while (low carb, NK, and JUDDD in my case). I know that I'm not the only person who is stalled over in the JUDDD group, and that's another very self-disciplined group, eating under 500 calories every other day and often combining lowcarb with JUDDD calorie restriction. I notice that a fair number of women post about not losing weight over on the paleo boards. So the "eat less, move more" sort of standard advice makes me so mad that I could just scream.

Well, thanks for letting me vent. Hang in there, everyone.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:32 PM   #1370
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Oh my gosh svenskamae I definitely think you should wait until that tropical heatwave arrives on Thursday before walking to the store for potatoes!

In January 2008 I spent a week in St. Paul for U. S. Figure Skating Championships held at the XCel center. I am from northern Ohio so I am quite familiar with very cold weather and snow. I was considering attending a winter carnival (with ice sculptures) being held near the Xcel center, but honestly it was just too darn cold. I was hanging out with 2 of my skating buddies - one from Minneapolis and the other from Milwaukee. I think the temp was 0F with a windchill of -30F. We were all bundled up to go across the street to a restaurant and I didn't want to appear like a wimp so I was going along. My friend from Milwaukee turned to us and said something like "are we nuts??? it is way too cold to go out". We just laughed ourselves silly over that and found a place to eat in the Xcel center.

Anyway, it is way to cold to go shopping for potatoes and it sounds like you have a good liquid plan to get yourself back on track. I absolutely agree that the long hours and lack of sleep can cause severe unreasonable hunger and poor choices....been there, done that.

Stay warm and try not to work so hard.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:10 PM   #1371
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Thanks for your supportive message, Maureen. I confess that I have lived in the Twin Cities for over 12 years and I've not made it to the St. Paul Winter Carnival yet--it's always just too darn cold to be out (IMO) unless you are an ice sculpture.

I'm hoping to avoid another ridiculously draining weekend like that--so not worth it, in terms of how I feel compared to what I accomplished. And I'll be calling a cab to get home, and going to bed early tonight.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:56 PM   #1372
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Once again I wrote a long note and lost it to the "message" that said I took too long. And....drumroll....I figured out what happened. I shut down the computer, but kept the "page" on my screen...so I just logged on (we have a broadband type connection where I have to dial up) and started typing. The problem is the "screen expired" I guess. So, this time I refreshed the screen and hope it works this time.

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Shelley - how wonderful - quilt making! My daughter received one at grief camp.

I found dairy withdrawal hard and made many swings at it. I have finally broken free. I think the hack helps.
How wonderful that your daughter got a quilt. We quilters LOVE making quilts for those "in need"....I work with 3 groups and have helped make lots and have no idea who they go to, but it's still great fun. Did you get one?

Re: dairy.....I haven't heard anyone do well eliminating it other than Madonna and that gal from an old TV show who wrote a book about it.

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Good morning stalled but determined friends!

About a year ago I gave up cheese and cream for a month or so, but noticed no difference or problem when I started eating them again.

**This is what I've read from many...so I'm not giving up my dairy, especially since we finally have raw milk available.**

I don't know if I have a thyroid problem (see the endo next week) but was thinking about adding some flax muffins. I used to make a OMM with flax, but that recipe has way too much protein.

**Hopefully the endo will be decent...usually they are great with diabetes and the pits with thyroid and hormones. I know a lot about thyroid, so let me know the tests you have and the results/ranges. Hopefully he runs the right tests (FT3, FT4, APO antibodies) Also, if you do have thyroid issues, you want to avoid soy and flax....they aren't good for thyroid people at all.**

I did buy some of the Kerrygold and have been using it sparingly for a few things I make for myself. DH doesn't care about LC or organic so he gets the "normal" supermarket stuff

** My hubby also gets regular storebought stuff. But if you have a Costco, go get your Kerrygold there....3 pkgs for $6.99 I think! Fabulous!**

I noticed that action on the NK thread has really dropped off. Buffy is posting on one of the challenge threads (I think) but is still trying to get back on her feet. Guess Kristn is really busy with work. What is scary to me is that some folks that were losing seem to be stopped again. I do think that lowering the protein helps me reduce the amount of insulin I inject which maybe why I lost a few pounds in November/early December. The few times I tested for NK I only got "low" readings, so who knows if NK really matters for me?? So confusing.
Buffy started posting on other threads when she was going to the hospital. She didn't post but a few token posts to the rest of us and then stayed with her challenge friends. I think Kristn gave up with the battle between her and Darin. So sad that they went there. My nova max has given me readings of .1, .2 and .3 and never a "low", so I am guessing the low reading means you are not registering???

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I was hoping to start my potato hack today, but it's just too brutally cold (30 below windchill) for me to walk to the store to buy potatoes.

**Sounds like Fairbanks, AK weather. I've been in -30 without windchill temps and it's no fun. The nosehairs and eyeballs sort of "freeze" quickly! Glad you are not going out for potatoes!**

Anyone who ascribes obesity to gluttony and sloth and lack of self control should have to live our stalled but determined lives! Potato hacks, fluid fasts, severely limiting carbs and protein, making everything (even mayo and salad dressing) from scratch, long bike rides and running and other forms of exercise, refraining regretfully from exercise (my case), giving up other categories of foods (dairy, nightshades, etc.) ... we are the very model of self-control around here, and none of us should be beating herself up for occasionally deviating from plan or not losing weight. I think that resistence to weight loss is actually a huge and under-recognized problem that is largely ignored, and that many things may stop working for many people after a while (low carb, NK, and JUDDD in my case). I know that I'm not the only person who is stalled over in the JUDDD group, and that's another very self-disciplined group, eating under 500 calories every other day and often combining lowcarb with JUDDD calorie restriction. I notice that a fair number of women post about not losing weight over on the paleo boards. So the "eat less, move more" sort of standard advice makes me so mad that I could just scream.

Well, thanks for letting me vent. Hang in there, everyone.
Very well said!!! I totally agree. I have also heard that paleo doesn't work well for women! I think men have that additional muscle that burns fat/calories much faster than anything we could acquire. It's not fair! It's amazing that nearly everything we have tried individually has not worked. I am enjoying not "thinking about it" much right now. Weight is actually staying about the same no matter what I do which is bizarre.

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We were all bundled up to go across the street to a restaurant and I didn't want to appear like a wimp so I was going along. My friend from Milwaukee turned to us and said something like "are we nuts??? it is way too cold to go out". We just laughed ourselves silly over that and found a place to eat in the Xcel center..
Glad you all decided to not go out!!!! Good move!

We are to have snow tonight and tomorrow....hopefully just a bit and not worth shoveling/plowing. I had my eyes checked today (first time in 2 years) and have zillions of floaters all over the place. Doc was surprised. I don't see them which is good. My left eye is the same and the right one has improved for "close up" vision and has deteriorated for distance. But not enough for them to think it's worthwhile to change my lenses (I have no vision or dental insurance). And tomorrow is my dental hygiene appt. $$$ out of pocket this week. (about $100 for each doc)

I cancelled the pre-order Skaldeman recipe book today. Sort of wish I had a kindle so I could order the Fat Fast book that is ONLY on kindle by Dana Carpender and our little Rebecca Latham (Kristn's thread). I like the idea of the very thin woman of doing a fat fast 2-3 days a week and LCHF the other days.......somehow that makes sense to my brain. I might try it in a week or two....and I'll let you know.

OH..I know you can download books to a Mac computer (my type), but I hate all the things you have to agree to. So, I haven't done that.

Hope everyone has a happy week without frustrations...but mostly keep warm!!!!!
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:38 PM   #1373
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Shelley - I needed to give up dairy because I was mixing cocoa powder and sweeteners into greek yogurt until I didn't want to eat anything else! Wow, I would love to do that right now...cheese *talks* to me. Anyway...

I have the Four Hour Body book. It is somewhat entertaining. I thought it would be brief since Ferris wrote the Four Hour Workweek (I have not read). He did mention no dairy because it is insulin-genic (whatever that word is). I've been skimming - mostly, I want to read the chapter on cold therapy for weight loss, which I just got to. I got it for free with a gift certificate from work for a book store and I didn't have much I could think of to order that I don't already have. I"m going to read the Starch Solution/McDougall next, then Lustig's new book - I got all three with the gift cert.

I was looking through one of my Kwasniewski Optimal Diet books last night an found a comment from him that said if you are having trouble losing weight, to eat at 8:00 and 17:00. I think those were the hours. I guess that means eat breakfast, skip lunch, eat dinner. I don't think I've ever done that as a pattern. Usually, it is skip breakfast and once in a blue moon, skip dinner. Hmph. I tried it today (even though I was on the potato hack) and ended up feeling down between 4:00 and 6:30 when I was able to eat. I might try it again when I am not on the potato hack. Or maybe will try it again on the hack with afternoon coffee. I'm up for trying things I never have before!

Svenska - I often think of the difference between myself now and my past self. I spent so many years trying to lose weight only to gain it back plus more. I think it is a manifestation of obession now. I am throwing myself at this, come hell or high water. I think when I was younger I spent too much focus on music, perfecting the piano, music performance, chasing boys, and later, getting married, building a career, having a baby, taking care of my bipolar mother, then watching my husband slowly lose his health over 12 years, the second half of which shook me up and made me finally apply myself to do what I can to support him through what I thought might be a long disability as well as put my daughter through college at the same time. So, about six years go, I had to face it - I had to lose weight to save my own health and apply myself to building a career for a better paying job to take care of my husband and my daughter.

Discipline, anxiety, obsession, and now, it seems to be my escape from my worries. I dive in to escape my worries. Reading and thinking about weight loss and doing what I have to get it, even though it has been darned near impossible unless going extreme. It is so hard and so consuming, it helps me escape. It is an enormous struggle to control my body, to control my eating, to eek out some weight loss. Why does it have to be so hard? And what the heck would I do with myself if I didn't have my weight loss program???

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Old 02-19-2013, 09:45 PM   #1374
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Mobear - I made a delicious warm bacon dressing with butter and balsamic vinegar using butter! I then wilted some spinach lettuce into that. Oh my goodness, wish I could have some!!! Not sure one teaspoon would cut it on a potato!

Anywa, this was much better than olive oil dressing!

Has anyone tried ghee? I never have, but I've seen buckets of it at the indian grocery store. I wonder if that would work with salad dressing? I was thinking of the good seasons/dry mixes to perhaps mix up with it.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:46 PM   #1375
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KT....I'm so glad that you are able to focus on yourself these days....and that you are having so much "fun" with your potatoes! You are quite the trooper! I still can't believe you're eating mostly potatoes and not much else.

I have never consciously had ghee, although I lived in India for 2.5 years and am sure that they used it there, but I was just not aware of stuff then.

I forgot to comment on the weighted hula hoop and the bruises. I had read reviews about such things and I used to bruise easily (lack of Vitamin B's), so am holding off on getting the larger size (1.5-2#).

Tomorrow we are heading to the "big city" an hour from us. Costco, here we come. I love to get their goodies...lots of "basics" for us like HWC, cheeses, salami, broccoli, spinach, prime steaks (not select or choice!) etc.....all about 50% of the price in the local stores. It's always exciting to go there!
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:20 PM   #1376
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Shelley - thank you. I am enjoying the potatoes and can honestly report that they kill cravings. The ladies on the perfect health diet thread are reporting same - adding potatoes has killed cravings. Also mcDougal noted this from the Kon all potato diet experiment (which had oil in it because th two athletic subjects needed the energy).

Back to 199. Three days on potatoes reversed damages from my valentine 3 day hiatus.

So, fresh weight loss starts from here!
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:55 PM   #1377
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Shelley, I don't think Kristn gave up a fight with red. I know she was not wanting to spend so much time here because I have IM'ed her for the last few months. Red is not "helping" people, he is a person with too much info and no experience. Sorry, That is MY experience.
I'm glad you've been in touch with Kristn. She goes to the same doctor group that I used to go to when I lived in WA State. She's very helpful and sweet too.

Red sure has plenty of time on his hands to read, listen to podcasts and "advise" others. I notice many of us have departed his thread (including Buffy his side-kick). His calories for people are way too high as we know and it's amazing to me that some people ARE breaking their stalls doing as he recommends and are losing. Why not us???. I agree completely that he has a lot of info, and a "funny" way of having followers to his sense of humor. I skim the 2 major threads and that's about it. I don't think many people are having a good experience with NK, and are leaving or just "joking" or "sharing TV shows" or "sharing music" which is not at all what the thread should be about. But I guess they are happy about it. It's not for me.

I'm still eating what feels right and doing okay and maintaining and not gaining at least. Tonight was steamed broccoli with butter and chicken thighs with ranch dressing over the top (per Dana Carpender's book). Easy and yummy! I guess you could say I'm on a "loose" NK or LC or Atkins '72 at this point. Hanging in there and trying to have food not be a focus for a while.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:00 PM   #1378
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Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
Shelley - thank you. I am enjoying the potatoes and can honestly report that they kill cravings. The ladies on the perfect health diet thread are reporting same - adding potatoes has killed cravings. Also mcDougal noted this from the Kon all potato diet experiment (which had oil in it because th two athletic subjects needed the energy).

Back to 199. Three days on potatoes reversed damages from my valentine 3 day hiatus.

So, fresh weight loss starts from here!
KT...I wish you could see me read your posts. I'm just "flabberghasted" at this potato thing! Makes no sense to my brain! I"m so glad it's working for you and your cravings are gone.

Congratulations on getting back to onederland!!!! Good going! I have one pound to drop to get back under 160 (I've been 160-162 for what seems like months now). I was 157.2 when I started on this journey in late August. So, I've been up and down and up and down the same 5# in all this time. It's nuts!

We are off to Costco tomorrow...an hour drive south of us.....picking up basics ... HWC, Kerrygold, meat, eggs, cheese, spinach, broccoli. And who knows what else we might find!

Hope you are all in safe places with this latest storm coming through. I wonder if svenskamae is????
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:44 PM   #1379
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Hi, all. It's still been too cold for me to walk to the store to pick up potatoes for a hack, so I let myself have a healthy JUDDD up day clearing out the veggies in my fridge and having a last fling with cheese before I try going dairy-free for a month. Tomorrow the person who cleans my house once a month will be coming by in the morning, and I'll ask her to give me a ride to the store to pick up potatoes and malt vinegar and lemons (for lemon water)--shortest grocery list ever for me.

The storm is supposed to be mostly south of me, though we may get a few inches of snow. So long as there isn't black ice and freezing rain or blizzard-level visability, Minnesotans cope pretty well with snow--and I'm happy to get it, because it's safer and easier to walk on snow than on ice.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:46 AM   #1380
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Shelley - you crack me up! I think I have disassociated pleasure from food.

Svenska - I still have not tried the malt vinegar, but I was at a friend's house last night and had some of his rice vinegar on my potato. Wow, I really liked that! I'm going to get some rice vinegar.

In my skim of the 4-hour body, Ferriss said he could not get a blunting of his blood glucose reaction from vinegar, but he could reliably blunt it by 10% with lemon! I am not sure it is a benefit in the potato hack, but who knows.

A good bit of the book is body-building insanity with supplements...skipping that! I sure as heck am going to start doing the kettle bell exercises. I have a kettle bell somewhere. It looks like repetitions of three simple moves, and not scary ones of weaving the darned thing through legs (a video I have put me off it). He wrote about how it got a woman off her stall. I find that curious and will explore.

I did a run with a lot of lemon water a couple of years ago. I thought it was really helpful.

I went to a friend's house last night. I have trouble with watching a friend chow, and as my mother always said, there is something about being at someone else's house that makes you hungry (yes!), so I brought over some rice cakes and rice crackers to have something to *munch.* It was really helpful!
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