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Old 01-28-2013, 10:05 AM   #1231
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Morning ladies!

Since this is the stall thread, I've got to share another article. The ice diet, OMG...the interesting part is this NASA scientist found that you burn waaaaay more calories when you are cold than when you exercise. That never occurred to me!

Weight Loss: NASA Scientist Ray Cronise Chills His Body to Burn Calories - ABC News

Not recommending ice baths!!!...seems like it could give you a heart attack. I think the exercising in cold weather, though, or in cool water (swimming) is interesting. It never occurred to me that the water temp has a lot to do with it.


I want to read his blog about the potato hack; that is how I found it. Have to register to read it, though. Apparently, he is a vegan. I don't support that at all; I just want to read about his weight loss. Curious man!
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:17 AM   #1232
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I've read some of Ray Cronise's stuff on cold thermogenesis. I'm not willing to immerse myself in ice baths, though the idea does sometimes encourage me to turn down my thermostat at home. He is big on swimming, where we burn calories to stay warm in the water, but admits that one would not have to eat more to compensate for post swimming hunger. (Swimming is the one form of exercise that makes me very hungry.)

I'm willing to do a lot to lose weight, but freezing as well as being hungry a lot of the time as well as being super disciplined on what and when I eat and tracking everything ... Adding one more form of deprivation (heat deprivation) is a prospect that makes me want to cry ... But that's just me. Some women on an old JUDDD board thread were trying to do very cold baths under this cold thermogenesis idea, but it doesn't seem to have helped them any. Like everything, a YMMV and "it's easier for men" thing, probably. You'd think that the fact I walk about an hour a day in snowy (sometimes subzero) weather would help me lose, but, alas, not so.

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Old 01-28-2013, 11:15 AM   #1233
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Last year there was a very popular thread somewhere about a fairly controversial doctor (and for some reason his rather well-known name is escaping me entirely right now) and a lot of people were trying his plan. It included eating a huge high-protein meal first thing in the morning. And he also had some side-tangent about immersion in cold water and ice baths and I think it was about then that I started feeling completely hopeless. Like, it can't be so flippin' complicated! It was crazy sounding and I started feeling crazy and I just gave up on all this research.

Anyway, today is my birthday, but we're celebrating it tomorrow since Monday's are so hectic. DH is off tomorrow and he's taking me out to the Indian lunch buffet tomorrow.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:56 AM   #1234
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, Speck! I hope you enjoy the Indian buffet. I love tandoori and saag paneer, which both happen to be fairly lowcarb; I hope they have things you like.

I wonder if it was the "Mastering Leptin" book by Byron Richards you were thinking of?

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Old 01-28-2013, 02:24 PM   #1235
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Thanks svenskamae!

No, but it was Leptin Reset! Jack Kruse! Thanks, that was bugging me
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:25 PM   #1236
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Or leptin reset ala Jack Cruise? I am cold (my feet and hands) most of the time these days and it doesn't help me with weight loss....
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:27 PM   #1237
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Happy Birthday Speck!!!!! Glad you'll be able to go out to a relaxing meal tomorrow, and like Svenska, I love tandoori and the paneers (lived 2.5 years in Bombay, India). Yum!
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:36 PM   #1238
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Oh my...Jack Kruse....I actually bought one of his books years ago and tossed it out. But he seems to be popular for some reason.

I have heard that ice water bath thing off and on for years.....no way I'm doing that!

Cathy, your cold hands and feet will be helped with the thyroid meds.....CoQ10/Ubiquinol being the better type is also helpful (bonus is it is good for the heart and lowers high BP if you have it...mine is low low low, but I still take it and have for years. No more cold hands/feet/body.

My good news is that I finally got the "whoosh" people speak of! I lost 1.5# overnight! Why? I can only say that I've been following the Skaldeman way of eating since Thursday. Ketones were .5 yesterday and .6 today (first thing in the AM). Sticking with his way...no weighing, measuring or recording anything. Just his simple equation and knowing what it on the list of "yes" foods and "no" foods. Simple. We'll see if it's a fluke, or if it continues. Since starting the NK eating, I have reached my highest weight of my life....for a former ballet/jazz dancer, that's really hard on the brain to see numbers go up in clothing and on the scale. I realize I'm not obese, but I am overweight per the charts and am used to being 10-25# underweight. I think Kristn made some comment a few times about those that have never been over 200# having a harder time of getting into ketosis and staying there. I have found that to be true in the 5+ months I've been doing this. And I have another 1.5# to go before I return to my starting weight. Geez....5 months of gaining and I'm excited about the "possibility" of returning to the start weight?! I am not sure that this is "right" for me, but I promised I would give it 6 months. Skaldeman said people like me could take a year, not the 6 months I thought I had heard....but I think you should be well on your way at 6 months....so maybe I have finally reached that threshold??? Who knows. Obviously not us! ha ha
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:44 PM   #1239
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everyone. I'm still alive and kicking in Ohio. Last week weigh in was 190 so I'm hoping this will be my 188 week. Not actually tracking but making big effort to be conservative. I'm feeling a little better and not so distraught and stressed.

Speck333 ! Hope you have a very enjoyable celebration tomorrow. Glad to read you aren't feeling as crazy either.

Sometimes it just seems that everything is just closing in. I'm going to start tracking again next week. It just doesn't seem that this should be so very difficult. I haven't read the NK threads because I actually find them kind of depressing (though of course I am happy for those that are losing).

It has been a very busy weekend but I've been sleeping a little better so that is a very good thing.

Hope drjlocarb and Cathy are doing ok. Key Tones I am amazed at the potato diet...can't imagine how it can possibly work...but thrilled for you that it is working!! Shelley what have you been up to?
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:52 PM   #1240
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Speck, happy, happy birthday!!!!

Oh my gosh, I love the buffet at Kanishka. I hope yours is as wonderful. It is so worth it!

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Old 01-28-2013, 11:05 PM   #1241
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Mobear, glad things are going better.

Shelly - I love to hear of whooshes. I hadn't realized you've been hanging in there so long looking for results.

RE: ice baths - I cracked up when he said you only lose 3/4 of a pound running a marathon. It is so weird to think you can lose more weight sitting in an ice bath!

Good grief, I am not doing that. I wonder what kind of drugs you would have to take to endure that.

Why aren't there ice bath fat farms? Maybe the biggest loser contestants are really sleeping in ice chambers? LOL...

I am so darn cold, I sleep in down feather booties, sweat pants, a t-shirt, plus two sweatshirts. Sometimes I sleep in a down jacket. This has been getting progressively worse. The more weight I lose, the colder I get. I have had the full panel thyroid. Normal. My thermostat is on 74! It is just Seattle; I don't have freezing cold drafts coming in, either.

Shelley - I think I have a bottle of Ubiquinol somewhere. I bought it as an antidote to the darned statins the cardiologist insisted my husband take. I'll have to experiment and read up, thanks.

All--thank you for being here, yet again. I've had a really hard couple of days. I wrote about it in the playground, and people there are already jumping in to help out with a problem my daughter is having at UW. It is great to come here to see how you all are doing, and writing here helps pull me out of my funk.

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Old 01-29-2013, 06:04 AM   #1242
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Happy Birthday Speck!!!
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:52 AM   #1243
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Mobear, glad things are going better.

Shelly - I love to hear of whooshes. I hadn't realized you've been hanging in there so long looking for results.

RE: ice baths - I cracked up when he said you only lose 3/4 of a pound running a marathon. It is so weird to think you can lose more weight sitting in an ice bath!

Good grief, I am not doing that. I wonder what kind of drugs you would have to take to endure that.

Why aren't there ice bath fat farms? Maybe the biggest loser contestants are really sleeping in ice chambers? LOL...

I am so darn cold, I sleep in down feather booties, sweat pants, a t-shirt, plus two sweatshirts. Sometimes I sleep in a down jacket. This has been getting progressively worse. The more weight I lose, the colder I get. I have had the full panel thyroid. Normal. My thermostat is on 74! It is just Seattle; I don't have freezing cold drafts coming in, either.

Shelley - I think I have a bottle of Ubiquinol somewhere. I bought it as an antidote to the darned statins the cardiologist insisted my husband take. I'll have to experiment and read up, thanks.

All--thank you for being here, yet again. I've had a really hard couple of days. I wrote about it in the playground, and people there are already jumping in to help out with a problem my daughter is having at UW. It is great to come here to see how you all are doing, and writing here helps pull me out of my funk.
Sorry that you have been having a hard time lately, Key Tones.

On being cold a lot: The people on the JUDDD board talk about "down day chills"; if this started recently (say, during the potato hack), this may mean your body is down-regulating heat production because you aren't giving it many calories. People who are cold on down days don't seem to have the same chills on their up days, so it's possible that a higher calorie level would resolve the coldness problem. Of course, that would raise other issues, perhaps ...
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:37 AM   #1244
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The cold thing has been going on for a long time. It really kicked into high gear on the protein-sparing modified fast I did last year. I got some relief when I started the potato hack, but it is back again.

Update - I'm 204 this morning. Day 10, down 9 pounds, 2 pounds below my low from before Thanksgiving. I think this is going too fast. Hmm.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:54 AM   #1245
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The cold thing has been going on for a long time. It really kicked into high gear on the protein-sparing modified fast I did last year. I got some relief when I started the potato hack, but it is back again.

Update - I'm 204 this morning. Day 10, down 9 pounds, 2 pounds below my low from before Thanksgiving. I think this is going too fast. Hmm.
Amaaaazing! Thanks for the update.

Do you have any ideas about what to add, if you want to slow things down a bit? One of the female JUDDD folks was doing potato hack plus fried eggs for breakfast ... still seemed to be working for her. And eggs would give you a lot of the nutritional components not in potatoes .... Personally, I'd add liver, but I love liver, and I know you don't.

I don't think it can be just that eating potatoes only dampens appetite, resulting in fewer calories consumed, because most of the JUDDD folks are very careful in monitoring calories. Eating the recommended number of calories on JUDDD to lose weight, I'd average around 1000 calories a day, and it doesn't sound like you were going a lot lower than that.

Do continue to report! I may be joining you in potato land, if I stay stuck where I am in JUDDD/NK land.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:47 PM   #1246
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About the ice bath thing (and HI everyone, yes I still exist!), when I was studying biology in college (yeah, yeah, way overeducated here. I have too many degrees) we had to do an metabolism experiment with mice. We cooled them and heated them (don't worry, humanely!) and measured their rate of respiration (ie. oxygen consumed) which corresponds with metabolic rate. The mice that were cooled had the fastest metabolic rates. That always matched my experience, strangely, that i had an easier time losing weight in the winter (I grew up in a very cold climate so was exposed to the cold a lot!). Anyhow, just a little firsthand confirmation of that theory
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:20 PM   #1247
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Hi Stardustshadow!

Interesting on the winter weight loss and mice experiment. In addition to wondering why there are no ice diet fat farms, I have wondered why there are no centers that knock smokers out for 72 hours to get them over the hump (meaning, smokers that want to quit).

Svenska - I might just add meals when there is a social reason. I went to one last weekend and ate a normal meal and things turned out OK.

I am a little leery of mixing up the diet on a daily basis since my blood sugar is looking so good.

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Old 01-29-2013, 07:45 PM   #1248
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I'm picking up a 10# bag of potatoes tomorrow
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:28 PM   #1249
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Speck - I don't mean to sell the potato hack - I don't know if the weight loss will stick until I come off of it. I hope so! Good luck!

Kidney function has to be good because you'll be taking in a lot of potassium. Best not to use salt substitute (it is potassium). Mentioning it, just in case.

Here are some links if you are interested. Vulgar warning on free the animal - but it is my favorite spot to read about it.

http://20potatoesaday.com/

Whole Health Source: Potato Diet Interpretation

Whole Health Source: Interview with Chris Voigt of 20 Potatoes a Day

The Hash Browns Potato Diet for Rapid Weight and Fat Loss | Free The Animal

The Latest Diet & Exercise Hacking Towards a Goal | Free The Animal

The Potato Diet Hack - Observations | Free The Animal

I Like to Help When I Can: More Potato Diet Hack Ideas | Free The Animal

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Old 01-29-2013, 11:37 PM   #1250
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I was teasing. For now. Lol. I'm thrilled you're having such success!
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:03 AM   #1251
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Ah, you got me!

I've been reading Ray Cronise's blog, Thermogenix. Mostly reading comments there about their weight loss success. He says to eat potatoes as a first choice, rice second, no fat/oil. Hmmm.

Rice. Wow.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:27 AM   #1252
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203 this morning. 10 pounds in 11 days.

I did uphill biking in the cold, dark rain, but I don't think that is what did it. Ray Cronise is the one into the ice baths, and I think his followers were doing the potato diet back in July. I'll read more, but I can't tonight.

I looked in the mirror and I do believe it is fat loss. I don't have that dehydrated look.

Good grief, what is this diet??? I'm going to crack 199 before my birthday.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:11 AM   #1253
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I'm looking forward to celebrating your entry into onederland, Key Tones.

I really appreciate your posting here regularly during your potato hack. I'm giving NK JUDDD until mid-February to see if I can get out of my current stall. If not, then I'm doing a potato hack.

I've been avoiding exercise sessions for a few days to see if I can bring on a whoosh that way. So far, no luck. This is going to be a 500 calorie fat fast day for me, of many cups of tea with 1 T. cream.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:04 AM   #1254
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Good morning all......KT, your potato hack losses are stunning! And I was always told that potatoes are the "worst" for me as they cause inflammation in the body. Interesting. And soon you'll be in onederland...how impressive. Love reading your posts. I'm curious to know how many calories a day you are consuming.

Speck...you got me too on your comment about going out to buy potatoes. I thought you were serious too.

Svenska...I also haven't been exercising for quite a while now.....so much is written about how you must and how you shouldn't until keto adapted. Blah blah blah. I just think each person is so very different that you can't put a one size fits on on much of anything.

I'm 7 days into my plan of not recording a thing, but doing the Skaldeman way of eating/"counting" and only eating when hungry. I had that initial whoosh of 1.5# and then I have been holding at that weight for 3 days now...no gains, no more losses.

I'm going to give the Skaldeman way a month or so and probably NOT test ketones or glucose and just see what happens. I know I"m happier this way as all the stress of thinking about, recording, planning, etc. is gone!

Stardustshadow.....thanks for the science experiment data. I really enjoyed that and it's always good to see you popping in to say hi and tell us something important.

drj, mobear, cathy....hope all is going well for you all.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:35 AM   #1255
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I'm sorry if I tweaked anyone with my teasing. KT, how do you feel eating all these potatoes? I'd be afraid I would not feel right and it would be difficult to function properly.

I am going to make a better effort to work on my sleep habits and see if that helps. I have always had trouble getting to sleep at night and have long suspected I had some kind of sleep problem because I always wake up feeling more tired than when I went to bed. So, I've been using this app on my iphone called Sleep Cycle, and it shows I have pretty normal looking sleep cycles. I was honestly expecting it to show I had very disordered sleep patterns (but I don't), and never went into deep sleep (and I do). I sometimes take melatonin to help me go to sleep, and there's something about it which makes me think it helps my overall sleep pattern during the night. I am going to try taking it more regularly and see if it helps. I will give this a try for a few months. And if it doesn't work, I think I will try this potato thing this summer when I'm off again.

And thanks for all the birthday wishes!
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:51 AM   #1256
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Thanks - I just hope it sticks. Only time will tell.

Speck - I'm comfortable. I feel good. I can go loooong periods with out eating. I usually can't and get grumpy! I think I could IF, but it doesn't seem necessary. I skipped dinner and breakfast once to see how I would feel. It was OK, not horrible, but I was tired and getting hungry--eating is better.

THe protein sparing modified fast I did last year was draconian compared to this. This is not hard. It feels good to be able to eat.

I don't usually eat more than 6-8 potatoes a day. I tried eating more last night - I made the microwave potato chips, that helped. I felt a little warmer last night. I haven't been counting calories. I think around 1000 all told, maybe less that time I skipped dinner and breakfast.

I am thinking about going just potatoes for a few days after peeking at Ray Cronise's blog. He really thinks eating fat/protein messes up the effect. I'm not sure I would eat 10 potatoes (they are about 100 cal each). Hmph.

I am sleeping less, however. It's like that effect I had when I started LC. Didn't sleep much then either.

Speck--no worries! That was funny.

I realize this is not the potato hack thread...I am checking to see if anyone else is doing it in the paleolithic part of the site, since so many on *** are doing it. Maybe others are there, but it seems that part of this site isn't very active.

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Old 01-30-2013, 11:55 AM   #1257
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I'm sorry if I tweaked anyone with my teasing. KT, how do you feel eating all these potatoes? I'd be afraid I would not feel right and it would be difficult to function properly.

I am going to make a better effort to work on my sleep habits and see if that helps. I have always had trouble getting to sleep at night and have long suspected I had some kind of sleep problem because I always wake up feeling more tired than when I went to bed. So, I've been using this app on my iphone called Sleep Cycle, and it shows I have pretty normal looking sleep cycles. I was honestly expecting it to show I had very disordered sleep patterns (but I don't), and never went into deep sleep (and I do). I sometimes take melatonin to help me go to sleep, and there's something about it which makes me think it helps my overall sleep pattern during the night. I am going to try taking it more regularly and see if it helps. I will give this a try for a few months. And if it doesn't work, I think I will try this potato thing this summer when I'm off again.

And thanks for all the birthday wishes!
Have you ever been tested for sleep apnea, Speck? You may be a likely candidate if you snore.

(I do snore, and I do have sleep apnea, but I find it difficult to adjust to wearing the mask/machine while sleeping. I also HATED the doctor I was referred to about this, because he told me to lose weight and refused to believe me when I said that my weight didn't budge despite consulting a nutritionist, eating low calorie/no junk, working with a personal trainer, and exercising 2-3 hours/day.)

My insurance covered my getting tested (spend the night in a sleep lab, with a bunch of monitors attached, after getting a sleeping pill.)
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:33 PM   #1258
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:32 PM   #1259
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Have you ever been tested for sleep apnea, Speck? You may be a likely candidate if you snore.

(I do snore, and I do have sleep apnea, but I find it difficult to adjust to wearing the mask/machine while sleeping. I also HATED the doctor I was referred to about this, because he told me to lose weight and refused to believe me when I said that my weight didn't budge despite consulting a nutritionist, eating low calorie/no junk, working with a personal trainer, and exercising 2-3 hours/day.)

My insurance covered my getting tested (spend the night in a sleep lab, with a bunch of monitors attached, after getting a sleeping pill.)
Yes, I snore, and I probably have sleep apnea, too. I won't wear one of those absurd machines though, which are just a band aid anyhow. I might be able to get a sleep study done at some point.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:32 PM   #1260
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Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
peanuts are bad...just saying
I hear ya.
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