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Old 01-13-2013, 06:45 AM   #1111
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Will do Mobear. What is your goal weight? That has helped me figure an approximate body fat %.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:35 AM   #1112
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Mobear, I put in 50% because even at ideal body weight, you should have 20% body fat so 50% is not out of line.

1641 cal
20 carbs, 51-61 ptn

You should lose 2.4 lbs a month. "SHOULD"

At 1641 cal you should maintain current weight.

As you lose weight, those calorie numbers will drop. That is the number of calories for Base Metabolic Rate (BMR) maintenance for your height and current weight. The high number is energy expenditure at current body weight.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:34 PM   #1113
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Thanks drjlocarb. I was out for the morning visiting a friend so I didn't respond to your question. My doctor thinks I should weight 120.... I think I saw that weight once 40 yrs ago. I actually don't have any goal weight..just as low as I can go and still sustain the woe.

I"m a little confused though. You say at 1641 calories, 20carbs and 51-61g protein I should lose 2.4 lbs a month.

Right after that you say at 1641 calories I would maintain??
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:14 PM   #1114
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Oops! Sorry.

1309 to lose 2.4/mo
For fun 1150 cal to lose 4.1 lbs /mo

1641 cal to maintain.


I used 125 as goal weight.

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Old 01-13-2013, 01:50 PM   #1115
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Yikes, I just ran my numbers.

Based on activity level, it says 95 grams of protein, and minimum recommended 77 (which is darn close to the 70 where I feel good).

So, I've been eating 30 to 50 this week. Perhaps I am running down my protein stores Maybe that is where the 5 pounds came from. I am sure that is what I did wrong last time I tried this, but 95 grams is so much!

I can't get the fat estimate calculators to work for me. They say I have 30% fat composition, but there is no way. I calculated it myself, assuming 120 pounds of lean body mass (I have been 155 twice before and still had too much body fat), and got 42%. So I plugged that in. I am wide framed, which makes people think I am large framed, but I am small boned.

Even then, it says 2,275 calories to maintain, basal metabolic rate 1650.

Weird to see the #s. It makes me wonder if I am crazy again. I think it needs an input for how many times you've been on a diet since 10 years old or whether you have ever starved yourself into making your hair fall out and if you are diabetic. I know I am a wreck from all of that.

Maybe my lean body mass is only 110 or 100 pounds now. Hmm.

I'm almost 48.

Confused!
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:20 PM   #1116
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Thanks Shelley. I had testing done spring 2012 and about 1 month ago with almost identical results. I ran the second tests on my own through the method you mentioned. It took almost 3 weeks to get my results, and that was only after I called. Don't know what their problem was. TSH this time was a little lower, but in lab range. FT4 was a little low and FT3 was at 2.2 with low lab range of 2.0.

My pcp was reluctant to treat based on labs. The endo I used to see for diabetes also treats thyroid but goes basically by TSH. I am not currently on any medication.

The DO endo's medical assistant says she treats based on history, symptoms and not just the lab results. I mentioned to the medical assistant that I had never had cortisol testing or anything other than the thyroid panel and she said the doctor would most likely order tests for me. It is a shot in the dark...I can't really afford to spend thousands on this. If this doctor won't do anything I'll just try and find someone else my insurance will cover.
3 weeks to get your results? You've got to be kidding. I tested at 11:45 AM on Tuesday and woke Thursday morning to have the results in my inbox! Less than 48 hours. Did you use Lab Corp for testing or another type of facility? That's horrible. YOu need to "whine" and have them give you a discount or another free test for all that waiting!

I sure hope this DO's office will do the trick for you. I hate that they always seem to make you wait so long for appointments though....my personal take is that you definitely should be on meds! And hopefully natural ones like Armour or Erfa. The new one I think is called "Acella"???? and it's made in GA and is supposed to be pretty good. Keep us posted.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:25 PM   #1117
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Yikes, I just ran my numbers.

Based on activity level, it says 95 grams of protein, and minimum recommended 77 (which is darn close to the 70 where I feel good).

So, I've been eating 30 to 50 this week. Perhaps I am running down my protein stores Maybe that is where the 5 pounds came from. I am sure that is what I did wrong last time I tried this, but 95 grams is so much!

I can't get the fat estimate calculators to work for me. They say I have 30% fat composition, but there is no way. I calculated it myself, assuming 120 pounds of lean body mass (I have been 155 twice before and still had too much body fat), and got 42%. So I plugged that in. I am wide framed, which makes people think I am large framed, but I am small boned.

Even then, it says 2,275 calories to maintain, basal metabolic rate 1650.

Weird to see the #s. It makes me wonder if I am crazy again. I think it needs an input for how many times you've been on a diet since 10 years old or whether you have ever starved yourself into making your hair fall out and if you are diabetic. I know I am a wreck from all of that.

Maybe my lean body mass is only 110 or 100 pounds now. Hmm.

I'm almost 48.

Confused!
KT...this is what happened to me with all the links others provided on other threads in order to get your macros/maintenance and weightloss calories, etc. etc. etc.

I'm also confused, but decided today to eat very simply....had a bulletproof coffee protein shake for breakfast...lunch was a salad with egg salad on top of the lettuce, and lots of water (so far). I'm going to try to keep my protein intake under 60 even though drj said 67 for me to lose 2# in a month. I think I should be lower although my trainer that did my macros told me to have 100 grams of protein/day. That had me gaining 3# in 2 weeks, not the 2# in a month drj recommended! ha ha

I think a lot of it is trial and error. Some do well on lower calories and some on higher. I have no clue why other than their "metabolism"??? i hate that term/word as it seems like a cop out to me.

I think my brain finally kicked in on what drj has been trying to tell everyone (including me) about the gluconegenesis or however you spell it. My fasting bg is lower the day after LOW protein. It's higher the morning after higher protein. So, the higher protein is just getting converted in MY body to glucose. Did I finally get that right? So, lower protein, higher fat, but not necessarily higher calories. We shall see what I come up with. It's so complicated for my brain!
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:46 PM   #1118
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KT, ptn levels will vary when you enter exercise. I don't know what they consider exercise. Does that mean heavy lifting to gain muscle or aerobic or walking around the block?

I am using BMR as my upper level of calories because, well, I am broken.

I entered "no excercise" to get a lower limit for protein to start.

I can tweeak when bk are where I want. I will add ptn or decrease fat IF my body will use MY fat, I will drop consumed fat by hundreds of calories.

These numbers are just a place to start cuz that is the most frustrating part.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:03 PM   #1119
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Ah, I see. I entered no exercise and assumed 110 lean body mass and got 66 grams of protein for a minimum; maintenance 1984 calories. Maybe. Well, I can see these numbers can vary quite a bit with a few tweaks.

I suppose that why testing helps. I'm still resisting; I think I can hit a sweet spot. I'll keep it open.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:10 PM   #1120
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I think my brain finally kicked in on what drj has been trying to tell everyone (including me) about the gluconegenesis or however you spell it. My fasting bg is lower the day after LOW protein. It's higher the morning after higher protein. So, the higher protein is just getting converted in MY body to glucose. Did I finally get that right? So, lower protein, higher fat, but not necessarily higher calories. We shall see what I come up with. It's so complicated for my brain!
That's^^ my story and I'm sticking to it!
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:29 PM   #1121
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That's^^ my story and I'm sticking to it!
Yipppeee..... I think I'm finally understanding!!!! Thanks drj!!!!
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:50 PM   #1122
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Something I've read on diabetes websites is that protein is like a "slow carb". It takes about 4-6 hrs to convert protein to glucose. Carbs, on the other hand, convert very quickly. I think this means the excess (excess for you) protein is converted to glucose.

I agree that this is far more difficult that simply reducing carbs. I also have no idea why some people can eat far far more calories and still lose while I can't seem to lose steadily no matter what.

Thanks for checking those calories for me drjlocarb!

Actually there was a link to a post Shelley made about being told by a trainer?or nutritionist? that a person should never eat below 1500 calories to lose weight because they could end up being stuck with those lower calories forever. Well I'm sure I've eaten at the 900-1100 calorie range for years so maybe that is why most of the calorie calculator's are so wrong for me.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:34 PM   #1123
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Something I've read on diabetes websites is that protein is like a "slow carb". It takes about 4-6 hrs to convert protein to glucose. Carbs, on the other hand, convert very quickly. I think this means the excess (excess for you) protein is converted to glucose.

I agree that this is far more difficult that simply reducing carbs. I also have no idea why some people can eat far far more calories and still lose while I can't seem to lose steadily no matter what.

Thanks for checking those calories for me drjlocarb!

Actually there was a link to a post Shelley made about being told by a trainer?or nutritionist? that a person should never eat below 1500 calories to lose weight because they could end up being stuck with those lower calories forever. Well I'm sure I've eaten at the 900-1100 calorie range for years so maybe that is why most of the calorie calculator's are so wrong for me.
I think that if our bodies get used to low calorie levels, day after day, our maintenance calorie levels get turned down ... and our thyroid levels can lower, our body temperature can go lower, our energy level drops, our immune system doesn't work as well, etc. There are plenty of ways that our bodies can cope with a norm of low calories, and I think the calculators don't tend to assume any of those are going on.

That's one of the reasons that JUDDD is appealing to me; supposedly eating 1000 calories more on your up days than your down days prevent our BMR from dropping permanently. I'm sorry that blood sugar control issues make that unworkable for you, Maureen. I wonder if it would make sense to alternate a bit higher and a bit lower calorie days, to slowly dial up the calories for your resting basal metabolism, if you want to work on that -- but I also know it's awfully scary to try that, if losing weight is such a huge challenge.

Over on the JUDDD board, a number of people (including me) are doing the two supplements Resveratrol (I use 200 mg Source Naturals) and Pterostilbene (I use 50 mg Jarrow brand), which are supposed to mimic some of the good health/healing effects of JUDDD, and which I find help somewhat with down days as appetite suppressants. The supplements are supposed to activate the sirtuin pathway, which also happens with JUDDD, and are supposed to help with blood sugar control and healing generally. If doing JUDDD isn't workable for others here, you might consider trying those supplements; I don't know if they and JUDDD are helping my metabolism work better in general, but I hope so.

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Old 01-14-2013, 09:04 AM   #1124
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Good morning.....weight up .2# (not a big deal) and fasting bg was 111 and blood ketones were .1 NOT what I was hoping for, that's for sure. I'm going the wrong direction once again.

Maureen....yes, I was told by 2 nutritionists that I needed to "up" my calories, especially since I was lifting weights 3 days a week. On non exercise days I was to be 1200-1400 and on exercise days I was to be 1550 - 2000 calories....and eating more carbs and lower fat on exercise days. It didn't work after the first few days! But it did work like a "swoosh" for the first few days! ha ha Then my body wanted to go back to what it was "used to" I guess.

I also did years and years of 600-900 calories a day. Just the way I liked to eat! I didn't want food. But my calories were 99% from bunless veggie burgers (yup...did that!), lots of fruits and cottage cheese and..ready!??? LOTS and lots of my Champion Juicers carrot juice, sometimes with apple, and TONS of hot oatmeal with oodles of dark brown sugar and a bit of 1% milk. Yup....did that and was thin...but still, under 1000 calories a day...for years on end.

So...I guess I've messed up my body bigtime, and it's going to take a while to undo that, or else I should return to it. I did 2 years ago and lost the 20# quickly! I guess the body DOES have it's own brain and apparently mine wants to be sickly to be goal weight??? Nah...not happening this time. I have my own brain and know that this is best for me for good health. My HDL is up, my triglycerides are down, and I feel healthy.

Question for those of you in NK.....do you always feel warm/hot....not like hot flashes that are chest to head, but you just feel "warm"? I used to bundle up and wear turtlenecks and lots of polarfleece, and now am in "summer tshirts" all the time. I can be outside for a while when it's in the 20's temp-wise and it feels good!!!! Yet my ketone readings are always low.... they are .1 to .3 for 9 of the last 10 readings.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:00 PM   #1125
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I think that it's great that you are choosing health over a sickly goal weight, Shelley. But it sure is frustrating when the goal weight doesn't coincide quickly with the healthy choices!

I feel pretty warm on my NK "up days" (of 1500-1800 calories) but chilly on some of my low-calorie down days on JUDDD. My guess is that your feeling less chilly all the time is an indicator that your body is working better--thyroid not too low, for example. And I had some times that I felt flushed/warm after eating coconut oil and coconut butter; are you eating more of that lately?

Hang in there ... I hope your ketone readings go up eventually, when your body finally LEARNS to be a fat-burner.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:10 PM   #1126
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Good grief, I am hungry today. I ate a bunch of protein last night out of worry that I am behind in protein consumption. I think that was a mistake! That made me hungry and a few hours later and ate even more. Yikes. Now it is getting me again today. I think small changes at a time like you all keep telling me would be better! Anyway, I'm drinking a cup of chicken broth with butter now. Buttered chicken broth - I guess that isn't really genius, but I don't think I've done it before. Wow it is good and it is helping! This is the best quickie fix ever!

Shelley - I think I have tried nearly everything, including crazy fasts and vegan. Talk about a diet making you sick...I learned about amine headaches in a hurry.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:14 PM   #1127
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Hollandaise Sauce Recipe?

Do any of you have an awesome hollandaise sauce recipe? I ordered this in a restaurant and it blew my socks off. I did not eat the english muffin of course - just the egg and....crab! I asked the waitress how they made it - she said it was so good because they cook the crab in butter, then use that butter to make the hollandaise sauce! Evil!

I must have more of this.

I suppose it probably had cream...
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:35 PM   #1128
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http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...llandaise.html

Here you go.
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Old 01-14-2013, 02:31 PM   #1129
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Woot! I have all the ingredients!

Thank you!!!
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:45 PM   #1130
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OOohhhh.....drj, thanks for the hollandaise recipe!!! I'm going to try that.

Thanks svenska for the "feeling warm" thing. I am not consuming more of CO than before. About 3 TBSP/day, but I DID have the spoonful of coconut cream last night (the hard stuff) right before bed and it did NOT keep me awake. But my glucose levels went UP!! ha ha (so much for that technique).

Yes, I am choosing health over being a size 8 again. I talked with DH for over an hour today and he feels so bad for me. He's watched me measure, weigh, record and do everything I'm supposed to do...oh, and poke my finger for AM BK and BG every morning for months too (well, not the BK every day). He can't believe I'm continuing along this path. I just wish someone other than Dean Ornish would do studies showing that nonfat was the healthiest way to go...I was so good at that! haha

When I was a kid, I used to have chicken broth with HWC for a treat...so the chicken broth with butter is very similar in taste so it feels like my good childhood memories to have that again.

KT on the protein thing. I have had mine down to 37 and 40 several times in the last week. Was hoping that would help me, but it hasn't. The funny part is that I only seem to crave salt and fat right now. But I'm going to make a 2 egg omelet for dinner with spinach, onion, bacon and cheese in it.....that just sounds good to me. Maybe I should put hollandaise over the top, put cheese on that and stick it in the broiler to melt! ha ha I am NOT a chef/cook....I just make things up. I'm only at 18g of protein for today. The omelet isn't going to help a lot, but I don't want a protein shake and I'm not hungry. Maybe one of these days if I continue to only eat when hungry, and keep foods within the no more than 20 carbs and at least double the fat to protein, I'll see a big whoosh!??

Hope you all had a great day. We had lots of snow and our high was 24 degrees F. Needless to say, I stayed indoors. Rumor is that everyone "out there" has the flu. I'm not going to expose myself until I have to. I have two 1/2 gallons of HWC and tons of butter....boxes of organic chicken broth...4 dozen eggs, lots of salami and a freezerful of organic ground chuck and 5 whole frozen chickens and 1 turkey. Wonder how long I can stay home????
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:28 AM   #1131
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How's everyone doing today?

I'm confused and trying not to think about it. I'm up two pounds for no apparent reason. TOM maybe, but I've done nothing to warrant a gain. No loss, sure, but gain? Whatever.
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:33 AM   #1132
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Hi, Speck. My weight bounces up and down pretty much all the time, within a 2-4 pound range, and it used to go up 8 pounds for TOM. So if you've been on plan and TOM is approaching, or if you have been exercising more, then I'm sure it's water weight and will go away. Continue to try to not think about it until TOM is past, and drink extra water to flush out water weight, if you can.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:05 AM   #1133
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How's everyone doing today?

I'm confused and trying not to think about it. I'm up two pounds for no apparent reason. TOM maybe, but I've done nothing to warrant a gain. No loss, sure, but gain? Whatever.
Hi Speck....I'm with you.....got a 1.5# gain and no reason for it. Lowered my protein and calories too! Ketone readings dropped to .1 so I give up on testing as it's expensive to get lower readings that someone that was eating normally with carbs and sugars and such.

I looked back 3-4 years in my calendars for weight. I'm sort of stuck in the same range of 10# up and down and in the middle. So, now I'm looking for a calculator for someone my age and such to see what is really "acceptable". Maybe I'm where I need to be other than to change the composition from fat to muscle? And how on earth do I do that?

Anyway, I feel your pain!!!! I'm staying low carbs, lower calories and eating to satiation and recording on ******, but no longer going to do any blood testing. And I'm waiting for the Skaldeman book to arrive and the PACE book for exercise. No big changes for me. Just trying to hang in there and not go up to the next "decade" on the scale.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:08 AM   #1134
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Hi Speck....responded but got a quick NOTICE that my message was going to a moderator before it would be posted. Must have broken a rule....I think I mentioned the name of where I post my food macros...not by the website, but just the name. Guess that must not be allowed.

Anyway, wanted you to know that I feel your pain. I'm up today as well...and lowering protein and calories. I'm not going to do any more "testing" with my strips until I can figure this out. But staying the course...you too!!!!
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:34 PM   #1135
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So sorry Speck333. I understand the pain. I'm still up 3 pounds of the 5 I gained right before Christmas. It seems that I am now bouncing up and down between 188 and 190 I agree that it is very frustrating as I have been getting all the food under control again (was seriously over on protein and fat), but not really seeing results.

Only solution is to just keep going! Like svenskamae mentioned I have been drinking extra water and doing my best to stay on track!

We CAN do this
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:30 PM   #1136
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Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming...

thanks all
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:32 PM   #1137
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Speck - two pounds is not much...I get inexplicable fluctuations. Hang in there!

Maybe it is the moon, LOL. I know I am up but am not going to get on the scale! Unlike you, I have not had good control. I usually do!

I ate too much protein the night before, then,

I don't know what came over me, but I was at Costco and I was talking on the phone while shopping. This package of pre-cooked bacon somehow made it into my cart, and well, I ate more of it than I should have . I had already had a larger dinner than usual too

Well, maybe I do know. I think that perhaps eating chocolate avocado might have been the thing that set off my overeating. I have heard so many times that sweeteners are a problem, and I haven't thought so, but 1/4 cup worth of of sweetener with 1/4 cup of cocoa at one sitting is quite a load. I then tried it a few more times with blends of sweetener. I'm pretty sure this was a trigger now; I seem to be looking for a "hit." I didn't have any last night. I need to give it a rest.

Enough said; I expect I have significantly wiped my results. No matter, we start again!!! I need to steer my addictive tendencies back to the curried vegetables with Kerrygold butter.

Good news - my skin is getting really, really clear!

Always look at the bright side...

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Old 01-15-2013, 01:39 PM   #1138
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Yes, always look on the bright side.

Maybe it's the desserty aspect of the use of the sweeteners. Do you sweeten your morning beverage (coffee/tea/whatever) and notice it triggers hunger?
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:57 PM   #1139
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I think you are right - too desserty!

I sweeten coffee and tea. I haven't noticed it causing hunger. It tends to just make me want to drink more coffee and tea.

I used to down a lot of diet soda before I realized how bad it is for you. I lost a lot of weight drinking diet soda instead of eating.

I have tried giving up the sweeteners to test this, but I just can't seem to do it. I freak out. I just have to have something enjoyable.

Maybe someday. Who knows? I used to feel this way about dairy, but I finally find I can do it, and I don't seem to freak out with a little in salad dressing. I found a refrigerated yogurt Caeser dressing that doesn't seem to have a load of bad oil in it.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:12 PM   #1140
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Ah....I love the keep swimming, swimming, swimming comment! So true. Many of us seem to have not done well over Christmas with gains of 3-5#......me too....and I too think it's the "dessert" thing for me. I have found that one square of 90% Lindt chocolate (and I'm not a chocolate person) seems to take away all desire for sweets for me. I don't do it every day. My other go-to dessert is a 1/2 fat bomb with just CO and almond butter (no chocolate). That makes me feel like I had a piece of candy.

When growing up, we always had dessert with lunch and dinner. It's hard at nearly 65 to break that mental habit. So, like KT I use ezsweets and HWC in chai tea (decaf) as my dessert. I can easily drink 4 cups that way in the AM and again in the PM. There is my minimum of 8 cups of water. I can't do coffee, even decaf. I love the smell and taste, but it never settles well in my belly/throat.

We can do this ladies...this is our year! I am more determined than ever now! And I'm so glad that the rest of you are also refusing to give in or give up! We can do it!!!!! (she says jumping up and down waving her arms)
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