∞ Stalled But Determined Challenge! ∞

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by stardustshadow

Arrgghhh I am so frustrated right now...just have to vent...I was doing GREAT then got my period...I am up SEVEN and a HALF POUNDS from a few days ago. In my head I know it is water weight, but MAN that is a LOT of water. It is depressing and hard for me to believe that it will go away. I go through the same doubt every month. Seven pounds is extreme, even for me, but it has happened before.

I really, really, really hope it goes away and SOON. Sometimes it is a challenge being female.

You have my sympathy. My weight routinely went up 8 pounds every month around the time of my period--just from water retention, like you are experiencing. Maybe try getting weighed only a couple of times per month--during the weeks that won't be affected by TOM. And drink lots of water--which is the only thing besides patience I know of that really helps one's body release retained water.

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by Key Tones

I am avoiding the scale. I think I am doing OK. I am just trying to avoid angst since I've already got more than I can handle. I'll check it out when I get past Christmas. I'm sure it is fine!

Sounds like a good plan, Key Tones. Aiming for maintenance and/or staying mostly on plan would be a lot during a stressful time like the holidays. I hope things feel easier for you once 2013 starts.

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

Hi Mobear! You are doing so well. I hope it all continues to fall into place for you.

I am going to Colorado for a week to visit a friend. I have to go see her and the kids (oh and the guy she's married to also)every year or they will grow up and I'll have missed it all. If I go between Thanksgiving and Christmas, the flights are cheap.

We usually get some horseback riding and/or hiking in while I'm there and I get some much needed time off from the 24/7 on call thing. And she makes me help with all her Christmas cookies.

Have fun, drjlocarb! For things like Christmas cookie making, I try to pretend that this is just "pretend" food (as if it were made of wax or plaster), because "I don't eat that," and treat the whole thing like an arts and crafts project rather than cooking. I hope you find something that works well for you, in those circumstances.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by svenskamae

Have fun, drjlocarb! For things like Christmas cookie making, I try to pretend that this is just "pretend" food (as if it were made of wax or plaster), because "I don't eat that," and treat the whole thing like an arts and crafts project rather than cooking. I hope you find something that works well for you, in those circumstances.

I ditto having a fun trip to Colorado drjlocarb.......

Sven....love the idea of the cookies being an arts & crafts project. A new way for my brain to think....thanks!!! Great idea!

[drjlocarb]

Tested ketones today>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.4

And, the fasting bld/gluc was down to 99.

There is a distinct correlation (for me) between fbg and bld ketones.

It looks like I can be a fat burner after all.

And my weight you ask? Not down to stall weight yet, so we'll see. Like clackey, I will see what happens.

BUT, I go on vacation in 1 week.

[clackley]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

Tested ketones today>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.4

And, the fasting bld/gluc was down to 99.

There is a distinct correlation (for me) between fbg and bld ketones.

It looks like I can be a fat burner after all.

And my weight you ask? Not down to stall weight yet, so we'll see. Like clackey, I will see what happens.

BUT, I go on vacation in 1 week.

Awesome!!! Going to be a really great new year - I can tell!!

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

Tested ketones today>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.4

And, the fasting bld/gluc was down to 99.

There is a distinct correlation (for me) between fbg and bld ketones.

It looks like I can be a fat burner after all.

And my weight you ask? Not down to stall weight yet, so we'll see. Like clackey, I will see what happens.

BUT, I go on vacation in 1 week.

Woooohoooooooo!!!!!!

Congratulations on those positive steps toward fat burning!

We're all looking forward to cheering when you report about the scale moving down. Good luck with staying in or close to NK while on vacation, if that's what you want to do.

[Mobear]

Oh my gosh Drjlocarb I am SO happy for you

Have a super great vacation. Thanks Svenskamae for your wonderful arts & crafts idea when it comes to cookies! I will be making pizzelles (waffle cookies) for DH next week. I will just keep thinking they are really playdoh.

I finally got my thyroid panel II scheduled today. It should give me free t3 and free t4 and tsh (for whatever good that will be).

[shelley]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

Tested ketones today>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.4

And, the fasting bld/gluc was down to 99.

There is a distinct correlation (for me) between fbg and bld ketones.

It looks like I can be a fat burner after all.

And my weight you ask? Not down to stall weight yet, so we'll see. Like clackey, I will see what happens.

BUT, I go on vacation in 1 week.

Oh my gosh!!! What wonderful news!!!! It's about time! I am so very happy for you!!!!

[Key Tones]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

Tested ketones today>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.4

And, the fasting bld/gluc was down to 99.

There is a distinct correlation (for me) between fbg and bld ketones.

It looks like I can be a fat burner after all.

And my weight you ask? Not down to stall weight yet, so we'll see. Like clackey, I will see what happens.

BUT, I go on vacation in 1 week.

I'm not up on ketone #s but I know 99 is a good number! Congrats!!!

[Key Tones]

Check it out - Jimmy Moore posted about this today on FB:

US army drink could hold key to weight loss

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by Key Tones

Check it out - Jimmy Moore posted about this today on FB:

US army drink could hold key to weight loss

Thanks for the link, Key Tones. Excuse me while I vent--criticizing the article's Professor Caterson, not you. Bits of this that made me go grrrr are:

"Ketones work by suppressing hunger signals because your body is able to obtain energy from its fat stores. It works in a similar way to the high-fat Atkins diet and the results are similar. Now it's thought that drinking a ketone drink could be a better solution."

Really? Better how, exactly? Will drinking 200 calories worth of this processed food work better than eating a LCHFMP diet where our own bodies create ketones and there are no blood sugar and insulin spikes? If I cut 200 calories out of my diet, drink this, and drink a lot of processed grain/sugar crap, that's better than eating a diet of whole foods that puts me in ketosis?

AND "Professor Caterson also said he doubts it would be safe for use with diabetes. "In type one diabetes, ketones are a sign that you haven't got enough insulin around," he said. "In those people, you certainly wouldn't suggest to them to live on this sort of thing because ketones that things are going wrong." How the heck did this guy get a PhD, a professorship, and a grant if he can't distinguish between ketosis and ketoacidosis, and if he is utterly unaware of Bernstein's Diabetes Solution (written by a Type I diabetic who has had a heroically positive role for the diabetic community)?

AND "High ketone levels have also been linked with constipation, kidney failure, osteoporosis, cancer, and heart disease." (No citations, no explanation of mechanisms, and no differentiation of ketone levels between ketosis and ketoacidosis).

On the positive side, I guess this supports our experience that getting into ketosis encourages fat burning, when it seems to work for some people as just a 200-calorie daily drink. Of course, if they tested this on members of the army, the test subjects were lean, young, male, and probably not insulin-resistent.

[Key Tones]

The interesting thing is that it isn't a drug company putting this out as a weight loss drink.

Here's another article:

Low Carb Diet News - Oxford University Professor Develops Ketone Drink Amidst 'Suggestions Atkins Was Right All Along' - Low Carb Diet News

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by Key Tones

The interesting thing is that it isn't a drug company putting this out as a weight loss drink.

Here's another article:

Low Carb Diet News - Oxford University Professor Develops Ketone Drink Amidst 'Suggestions Atkins Was Right All Along' - Low Carb Diet News

Yes, that is interesting. Seems like a good thing if this publicity helps de-demonize Atkins/LCHF/ketogenic diets and helps people in combat conditions. Still, I can't imagine that with insulin-resistent, very carb-sensitive people, adding the ketone drink without modifying diet to limit carb intake would work as well as limiting carbs in general. Maybe adding The Drink would help people who have trouble getting into ketosis, or compound the positive effects of a LCHF diet.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by Key Tones

Check it out - Jimmy Moore posted about this today on FB:

US army drink could hold key to weight loss

What did Jimmy say about it? Interesting that they say it should not be used with people who have diabetes.

And....I've been seeing ads for "raspberry ketones" all over the place. Is that the same thing??? I haven't looked into it.

The other thing of interest is that they say the highest ketone readings are first thing in the AM and that contradicts what I've been reading. It gets higher as the day goes on, especially if you consume coconut or MCT or products that contain them. Hmmmm.....

[Key Tones]

Wow, Jimmy had so many posts today I had to dig for it. Here is what he said. I don't pay that much attention to his posts; I mostly look to see if he has any interesting podcasts coming up or if he is going to talk about how he lost the most recent 50 pounds. He does link interesting articles.

Jimmy's FB Post:

US army drink could hold the key to weight loss, treat epilepsy, diabetes: US army drink could hold the key to weight loss, treat epilepsy and diabetes ~ So drinking ketones are healthy but making them naturally through a high-fat, moderate protein, low-carb diet
is somehow dangerous? These people can't have it both ways. You can use nutritional ketosis to create all the beta-hydroxybuterate your blood can hold and use for energy in your body by restricting carbohydrates, minimizing protein and not fearing the consumption of dietary fat. Artificially raising your ketone levels while eating a crappy diet doesn't sound smart to me.

[Mobear]

Thanks for the links KeyTones. I think the drink might be useful for someone having difficulty getting into ketosis. However, I also think that eating a HF/MP/LC diet is the long term answer. I really don't see any advantage to using a drink to promote ketosis and then eating a higher carb diet....that is kind of like stepping on the brake and gas pedal at the same time!

[drjlocarb]

[Key Tones]

Ha, yes. It seems like it could be step one to the realization that this is the way to go to lose weight.

Perhaps the idea is if it knocks out appetite then the person eating the high carb diet would just eat less and lose weight. Taubes noted he believes people lose weight on the typical diet because when they cut their calories they are actually cutting carbohydrates in the end.

I'm *sure* it is cheaper, easier, and tastier just to go low carb. Still think it is odd that this isn't being put out by a drug company!

I was wondering why if the army doesn't have room for food due to carrying ammunition how they would have room for these drink bottles. I guess they are just putting something in the water they already have to carry. Maybe it doesn't add weight to the water. ?

[shelley]

Originally Posted by Key Tones

I was wondering why if the army doesn't have room for food due to carrying ammunition how they would have room for these drink bottles. I guess they are just putting something in the water they already have to carry. Maybe it doesn't add weight to the water. ?

Oh my....you really hit a "nerve" in my head with that comment. What else they might be putting in the water?!?!

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by Key Tones

I was wondering why if the army doesn't have room for food due to carrying ammunition how they would have room for these drink bottles. I guess they are just putting something in the water they already have to carry. Maybe it doesn't add weight to the water. ?

Seems like issuing combat rations that were high in fat and/or protein and low in carbs--and thus dense in calories and satiating--would do the trick. If I had to pack a knapsack with food and ammunition, I'd put in coconut butter, 85 percent chocolate bars, nuts, nut butter, jerky, tins of corned beef, etc. Lots of fat, adequate protein, not much bulk or weight per calorie--and then my body would naturally make its own ketones.

[shelley]

Sven, what type of coconut butter do you use and love. I have some very old stuff in jars that is rock hard, but I can scrape it out and it tastes okay. But want to know a good one to look for in the future. And, have any of you tried that pemmican??? I think that's what it's called. I see that name pop up every now and then. The military should use that!

[drjlocarb]

Are you insane woman! All those poor soldiers! Their little hearts would explode from all that FAT.

They work for the government you know. The government gave us that lovely food pyramid. How do expect them to feed them anything other than a SAD diet.

Really, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

Are you insane woman! All those poor soldiers! Their little hearts would explode from all that FAT.

They work for the government you know. The government gave us that lovely food pyramid. How do expect them to feed them anything other than a SAD diet.

Really, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?

LOL, that's why they don't give people like us those nice fat government grants about how to feed the Army.

[svenskamae]

Originally Posted by shelley

Sven, what type of coconut butter do you use and love. I have some very old stuff in jars that is rock hard, but I can scrape it out and it tastes okay. But want to know a good one to look for in the future. And, have any of you tried that pemmican??? I think that's what it's called. I see that name pop up every now and then. The military should use that!

I love Artisana Brand coconut butter. Sometimes you have to stir in the oil that rises to the top (like with natural-style peanutbutter). Sometimes there isn't enough oil when you get to the bottom of the jar, and then I warm the jar a bit in some hot water and stir in some virgin coconut oil to soften it up.

I was reading about traditional pemmican somewhere; I've read too many books on traditional nutrition lately, and now they are just a blur. Maybe it was in "Trick and Treat." Anyway, traditional pemmican was just made with meat and fat by American Indians. Europeans insisted on putting dried fruit in it, to make "more nutritious" and it didn't keep nearly as well. But the no-fruit traditional pemmican approach sounds like a better plan, to me, than slugging 200 calories of The Drink plus a SAD diet. Good idea, Shelley!

[shelley]

Thanks Sven......I always wanted to "try" a container of pemmican in my car, but found one site and it was highly recommended and super expensive...that was a couple years ago, but know it's still found online. Yup...think they should give the troops that to carry!!!

Thanks for the Artisana brand of coconut butter. I've also been reading about people using a liquid coconut cream that comes in a box...not the canned coconut milk, but a thick yummy cream...sold in Asian stores, but there aren't any around here. Will see about the Artisana coconut butter next trip to the health food store. Thanks!

[Key Tones]

Originally Posted by shelley

Thanks Sven......I always wanted to "try" a container of pemmican in my car, but found one site and it was highly recommended and super expensive...that was a couple years ago, but know it's still found online. Yup...think they should give the troops that to carry!!!

Thanks for the Artisana brand of coconut butter. I've also been reading about people using a liquid coconut cream that comes in a box...not the canned coconut milk, but a thick yummy cream...sold in Asian stores, but there aren't any around here. Will see about the Artisana coconut butter next trip to the health food store. Thanks!

I just bought Let's Do Organic brand of coconut cream. It comes in a block which is grainy like nuts that have not been ground totally in cream. When I say block, I mean it is solid and brick-like!

I like it, but read the reviews on the very large online retailer's site. Some people hate the grainy texture and some can't stand dealing with the brick.

I just cut the plastic bag open and pop it into a mini loaf pan and cut it carefully with a knife. I think it taste good but it tastes like coconut. Mix it with something and it will taste like....coconut! For me this is a good thing since I am not crazy about vegetabes but want to eat them. I will try making curry out of some things over the next few weeks with this.

[Key Tones]

Originally Posted by shelley

Oh my....you really hit a "nerve" in my head with that comment. What else they might be putting in the water?!?!

Ha, yes, it blows my mind that they didn't just put sugar in the water and be done with it! THat's what I would expect.

[drjlocarb]

Blood ketone update.

12/5 - 1.4
12/6 - LO later in the day but before eating - 1.1 wasted 3 strips that day
12/7 - had to leave the house before testing
12/8 - 0.7

My weight fluctuates so much day to day that I'm not sure if I am losing or not. Will see if there is a new low coming. I don't think so.

My goal is to eat what I am and see if the ketones stay in range and then cut the fat in my diet and see if the body will use what I have instead of ingesting it. My calories, with my weight, say I should be wasting away to nothing at warp speed. I don't think messing with macros at this point is going to do anything to help me figure out where I need to be.

I think the testing will help me figure out when I am a fat burner and then lowering dietary fat will let me see if I can/will use body fat yet. If I drop dietary fat and my bld/ket levels fall, I will up the fat again for a week or so and then try to drop it again. I am at 80-90g ptn, 20 carbs, and fat to get me to 1300 - 1600 cal.

That is the plan. AFTER I get back from vacation. I can't eat sticks of butter and packages of cream cheese at someones house. I will stay VLC and try to stay in ketosis, maybe not NK, but still ketosis.

I shouldn't have any more road blocks until May---LC cruise for my 50th birthday!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by Key Tones

I just bought Let's Do Organic brand of coconut cream. It comes in a block which is grainy like nuts that have not been ground totally in cream. When I say block, I mean it is solid and brick-like!

I like it, but read the reviews on the very large online retailer's site. Some people hate the grainy texture and some can't stand dealing with the brick.

I just cut the plastic bag open and pop it into a mini loaf pan and cut it carefully with a knife. I think it taste good but it tastes like coconut. Mix it with something and it will taste like....coconut! For me this is a good thing since I am not crazy about vegetabes but want to eat them. I will try making curry out of some things over the next few weeks with this.

I saw this at the store recently but decided against it as I have some of that from another company and it's "okay", but I have been looking for the liquid cream.....apparently found in "boxes" in Asian stores. You just "pour" it out and it's thick coconut cream as in HWC consistency. Still looking for it!