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Old 10-24-2012, 07:28 AM   #751
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Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
People might want to check out Trillex's posts on the "Can you be in ketosis and not lose weight?" thread on the main board, which talks about how adrenal hormones (cortisol, I assume, but perhaps others) can raise blood glucose no matter how low carbs go, particularly for some former smokers.
Can you be in ketosis and not lose weight?

Thoughts, anyone?
I read that and have to say was confused by it. I have to say, that my addicted brain said I better go back to smoking in order to alleviate this problem I am having (8+ months under my belt at this point). Ha, ha. The logic breaks down when I realize that I have been stalled 2+ yrs.

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drjlocarb Updates??
I received my berberine (finally) and have just begun taking 1 just before my first meal of the day. Too early to say if it is having any effect.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:56 AM   #752
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I think I've heard this before, but usually it is about caffeine as the start of the chain. I haven't read about smoking, however.

Happy with maintaining this new low weight. I tried the avocado for breakfast and lunch but crapped out in the afternoon from sheer hunger. Usually when LC dieting it is fatigue more than hunger that gets me, but this time it was full on hunger. I can't take going that low on protein. I felt good about two hours after having a hamburger patty. I was so happy to find that thing! I had forgotten I had brought it into work. I felt reaaaaly good last night, finally. However, calories yesterday were 1600 with the extra hamburger patty.

Maybe I can do this low protein thing only every other day.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:47 PM   #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
I read that and have to say was confused by it. I have to say, that my addicted brain said I better go back to smoking in order to alleviate this problem I am having (8+ months under my belt at this point). Ha, ha. The logic breaks down when I realize that I have been stalled 2+ yrs.

I received my berberine (finally) and have just begun taking 1 just before my first meal of the day. Too early to say if it is having any effect.
I quit smoking about 5 years ago, and I didn't notice that having any particular effect on my weight. The mechanism referred to by Trillex might be high cortisol levels, and I'm planning to test for those. I am waiting to do the testing until I get past my latest round of ridiculously long overtime hours (routinely 20 hour work shifts), since I'm sure that this is raising my cortisol at the moment, but I hope to wrap up those work projects this week. I was treated for adrenal fatigue about 7 years ago, which probably made me feel better but didn't make me lose any weight.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the berberine helps you, Cathy.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:52 PM   #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
I think I've heard this before, but usually it is about caffeine as the start of the chain. I haven't read about smoking, however.

Happy with maintaining this new low weight. I tried the avocado for breakfast and lunch but crapped out in the afternoon from sheer hunger. Usually when LC dieting it is fatigue more than hunger that gets me, but this time it was full on hunger. I can't take going that low on protein. I felt good about two hours after having a hamburger patty. I was so happy to find that thing! I had forgotten I had brought it into work. I felt reaaaaly good last night, finally. However, calories yesterday were 1600 with the extra hamburger patty.

Maybe I can do this low protein thing only every other day.
What is your range for protein intake now, Key Tones? I was crazy hungry for a while when dialing down my protein, but eventually got adjusted to eating less. (I'm dealing with eating too much right now due to fatigue/cortisol from temporarily working too long hours and getting too little sleep, but I think that's a different issue.) If you hope to go with a lower protein level, maybe it would work to dial the level down slowly--say, start at a point that satisfies you and try to cut back 5-10 grams a week? Just a thought ...
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:15 PM   #755
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Here's an editorial that I was sent by The American Diabetes Warehouse, under the heading "Weight Gain and Diabetes," by Roberta Kleinman, RN.

Possible food for thought here ...

"I just wanted to share some other theories [about causes of weight gain] in the news which may apply to you. Remember even though these theories may be part of the reason why you can't control your weight, you still have to accept the reality that weight control comes from smaller portions, better food choices and any kind of increased movement - whether you call it exercise or not!

BPA exposure - Bisphenol A (or BPA) has recently been in the news. It is contained in certain plastic water bottles as well as on the insides of soup, fish, chicken and vegetable cans. It can be found in other beverages packaged in cans, plastic food containers, and paper receipts from the supermarket, boarding passes, credit/debit charge receipts and most paper tickets. A study done by Spanish researchers reported an interesting correlation. They exposed human pancreatic cells (where insulin is made) to tiny amounts of BPA. It caused the cells to double the amount of insulin needed to metabolize the sugar in the meal. In time excess insulin or hyper insulinemia can encourage the body to store more fat especially around the waist line. There really is no standardized or routine testing of BPA, but according to Dr. H Taylor, a reproductive endocrinologist at Yale University, most Americans have high levels of BPA circulating in the blood. The best idea is to reduce BPA exposure. Choose fresh or frozen fruits and vegetables instead of those in a can. Choose glass over plastic for drinking or find BPA free plastic bottles. Try to reheat foods in glass or on microwave safe dishes instead of plastic containers. Store or freeze foods in glass instead of plastic. Think about what you can do online for ticket purchases so you can print them out on BPA-free paper.

Medications have been known to put extra weight on. There are medications called SSRIs or Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors. Examples would be Paxil, Pexeva, or Celexa. These anti-depressants - used to treat anxiety or depression - have been known to increase appetite. Your physician could change to another type or brand that increases dopamine, which may reduce hunger (e.g. Wellbutrin). Certain blood pressure medications can also lead to weight gain since they may decrease a person's metabolic rate. Beta blockers such as Tenormin or Lopressor can add weight, but ARBS or ACE inhibitors usually do not. You need to check with your physician to find out which is the most appropriate blood pressure medication for you. Many types of anti-histamines used to treat allergies like Benadryl or Alka Seltzer plus Allergy may increase hunger. Other choices which contain less potent chemicals including Claritin or Zyrtec can cause less of an appetite. Medications for sleep disturbance can increase appetite and weight gain if used daily. Instead of OTC brands like Sominex or Nytol ask for a prescription of Ambien and try not to take it nightly. Insulin causes weight gain since it helps you use the sugar from the food by getting it into the cells instead of excreting it through the urine. Never stop taking insulin for this reason. Diabetes oral medications called Sulfonylurea's (Glipizide, Glyburide and Glimiperide) are known to promote weight gain as well as TZDs - Actos and Avandia (black boxed-not really being prescribed anymore due to multiple side effects). This is just a short list and I am sure there are many more medications which may cause weight gain - but you must weigh the benefits and risks with your physician; never change or go off medications without checking with your health care provider!

Addictive foods - New research suggests that certain foods can be addictive just like drugs and alcohol. Studies using both sugar and fat show that over time larger doses of these foods were required to get that same "feel good" sensation. According to Dr. Brownell from Yale University, the human body is adapted to deal with natural food and when presented with processed food the mental and physical addiction takes over - along with the weight gain. Gaining pleasure from food is important, but indulging in a roasted peach instead of a bag of chips will be a positive measure. The less sugar and fat you eat will allow you to experience fewer cravings!

Another possible cause of weight gain is systemic inflammation. Inflammation means the body's immune system works overtime and can interfere with a hormone called Leptin; in a person of average weight, leptin can decrease appetite and increase metabolism. In an over weight person the leptin signal can get lost. Inflammation can result from stress, excess sun, sedentary life style, disease processes or food additives. Foods such as salmon, almonds, egg whites or apples may decrease inflammation as well as Omega 3 fish oil or supplements.

This is a partial list of why it may be difficult to control your weight. I will continue with another newsletter to offer you other potential reasons why weight control may not be working. Please do not use this as an excuse, but realize that it is added information as to why controlling your weight may be more challenging! Keep motivated the old fashioned way with food moderation and exercise and I promise eventually you will get to your target weight! "

Promises, promises ... Anyway, other than some obvious elements like insulin injections for controlling diabetes for Maureen, do any of these seem potentially applicable to anyone here?

I know that Key Tones is trying to reduce inflammation to deal with joint pain, and I wonder if inflammation related to a chronic UTI might be an issue for me? (I try to avoid unnecessary antibiotics, and only occasionally experience symptoms, but I always test positive for having a urinary tract infection, as an adult. A doctor told me it wasn't a problem unless I were pregnant, but I wonder ...)

The "addictive foods" thing is presumably irrelevant, since we've given up the sugars and grains ...

Canada has banned BPA as a "toxic substance," but the US hasn't. Here's the list of suggested actions to limit exposure (from a website):
1. Avoid plastic identified as #1, 6, and 7;
2. Don't microwave plastic containers
3. Avoid canned food and beverages
4. Use glass, ceramic, or stainless steel containers
5. Use stainless steel or polyproylene (5 inside a triangle) for water bottles
6. Don't wash plastic containers in the dishwasher

Here's a quote from the website:
"A recent study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found a link between BPA and obesity. Scientists measured concentrations of BPA in urine and found children with higher concentrations of the chemical were more likely to be obese ... and the group with the highest BPA concentrations were the most overweight/obese."

It certainly can't hurt and in general probably helps health to be careful about BPA intake (to the extent possible), but who knows if that's a factor for anyone here.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:49 AM   #756
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What is your range for protein intake now, Key Tones? I was crazy hungry for a while when dialing down my protein, but eventually got adjusted to eating less. (I'm dealing with eating too much right now due to fatigue/cortisol from temporarily working too long hours and getting too little sleep, but I think that's a different issue.) If you hope to go with a lower protein level, maybe it would work to dial the level down slowly--say, start at a point that satisfies you and try to cut back 5-10 grams a week? Just a thought ...
I estimate approximately 45 grams on the day I was really hungry.

I'm going to go with what feels right. I can deal with fatigue but not hunger.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:59 AM   #757
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I'm on a road trip to Windsor, Ontario ( Cathy). Having problems staying connected but just a few comments.

I've had a cold so bg was up. Finally came down to 85ish fasting. Tuesday and Wednesday morning woke up with 124 which I am positive was due to the stress of this trip. I am aware of the stress on my body because when I test I see the higher numbers. If a person isn't diabetic the body would just handle this with more insulin. I'm convinced this a big part of insulin responses we can't really control. Prolonged coughing will also cause bg to go up.

Key Tones I last July I was eating 70-80g protein a day and just whittled that down 5g for a week of so then another 5g til I got down to 38-45g. I also had to up the fats a lot - sometimes 130-150g a day or I was very hungry. I can't handle hunger either so I know where you are coming from.

Cathy I think it probably takes a couple of weeks or longer for the supplement to build up and become effective. Hope it helps you.

Got to go now. Will try to post later.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:35 AM   #758
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Hi from the same province Maureen!! I have to admit I have never been to Windsor. Hope you feel better soon!!
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:57 AM   #759
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Hi Friends. I'm really, really struggling. I don't want to lay it all out. I know you've got your own stuff. Man, I'm just hanging by a thread, you know? It's like every facet of my life is just in shambles. I just wanted to pop in and say "hi" and let you know, even though I'm in a bad way all the way around, I haven't given up. I guess I have to hit bottom before I can come back up. It's a strange place to be in... watching it happen but feeling like I can't stop it. Thanks for listening/reading, guess I had to put it out there. Glad I have LCF.
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:37 AM   #760
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Really, really sorry to hear you are in such a bad place Speck and sending you hugs. Lean on us ... I think I can safely say, we all want to help.

If it helps at all, my letting my woe go when my life spun out of control with a few yrs. of unrelenting stress was to gain 100 lbs. I can honestly say that I think if I had known then about stress and diet, I would have made better choices. It is even more important to eat well under these stressful conditions. I know you can do it. It starts with the next food choice you make.
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia

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Old 10-26-2012, 11:44 AM   #761
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Thanks Cathy, you are very correct. Eating like crap is not helping anything.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:32 PM   #762
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Hi Friends. I'm really, really struggling. I don't want to lay it all out. I know you've got your own stuff. Man, I'm just hanging by a thread, you know? It's like every facet of my life is just in shambles. I just wanted to pop in and say "hi" and let you know, even though I'm in a bad way all the way around, I haven't given up. I guess I have to hit bottom before I can come back up. It's a strange place to be in... watching it happen but feeling like I can't stop it. Thanks for listening/reading, guess I had to put it out there. Glad I have LCF.
I'm sorry things are going so badly for you, Speck. In bad times, it's a huge victory to maintain one's weight and not get into a carb-binge cycle, so give yourself a lot of credit if you can achieve that or work toward that. Something that I sometimes tell myself is that I can't control a lot of things in my life, but I do decide what goes into my mouth and can try to make that as on-plan and healthy as possible. A lot of people swear by L-glutamine to help with cravings, if that is an issue for you now. Post whatever and whenever you feel like it will help, and good luck.
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:19 PM   #763
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Thanks svenskamae, I know I sound like a broken record lately.
I am up about 6 pounds. I have been pretty good during the week, but making terrible choices on the weekend. I don't get cravings, per se, but just decide I don't give a $#!% and I'm going to eat whatever I can find. Crazy how eating "normally" can cause so much gain so fast. Just goes to show how messed up my system is, I guess. But also, my joints are stiff, I've got a sciatica flare up, my moods have been swinging, I'm exhausted most of the time... I can feel the blood sugar crashing. I need to remember that food is medicine.


I made much better choices today. I had some leftover pumpkin soup (homemade) for breakfast, then a handful of peanuts for snack, then some hot wings with homemade ranch and romaine with homemade ceasar dressing. Now I'm savoring a few squares of super dark chocolate. Dinner will be salmon and mixed vegetables.
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:23 PM   #764
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Way to go!!!
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:12 PM   #765
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Good for you for making better choices today. I hope you can carry that forward into the weekend.

After so long of trying and trying to lose without results, I can absolutely understand the "what the heck, why bother" mentality. I've been there myself, which is how I managed to gain about 40 pounds over the past 7 years, which I've finally managed to whittle off over the past 9 months. The sad thing is that going off plan doesn't let us stay in the same (undesired) place, it makes us gain and makes us sick, as you are experiencing. Life is definitely not fair.

I hope that going back on plan helps you feel better physically and mentally. You need all the resources you can get if you are going through a rough period, and it's sad that you have to face that feeling lousy, as well. Here's hoping your staying on plan brings quick rewards in terms of feeling better.
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Old 10-26-2012, 07:47 PM   #766
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Hey Speck, just hang in there!

Repeat as often as necessary.....

Maintain, maintain, don't regain.
Maintain, maintain, don't regain.
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:57 PM   #767
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Thanks everyone. Your support is so welcome and needed. My sciatica flare up is already better today with no sugar or starch.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:17 PM   #768
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Speck,

What a great food day. Why, yes, of course that would make you feel better! I am amazed at how a dietary change can make a difference.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:41 AM   #769
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It really is a amazing. I started having this sciatica issue a couple weeks ago, it came on out of the blue. But I knew why, I knew it was due to inflammation from the crap I'd been eating. 36 hours of no crap and it's practically gone.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:36 PM   #770
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That is amazing!!
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:05 PM   #771
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Doing good today. I had coffee with cream this morning, and then some more pumpkin soup for breakfast. And I remembered to take my supplements! lol
I'm lunching on a tuna and cheese sandwich on an almond-butter-bread roll. We're having breakfast for dinner, so eggs and ham. I found the cutest idea for sunny side up or fried eggs. Google "flower power eggs". I may make these tonight.

I went to Smart & Final today. I picked up a 3 lb block of cream cheese, a huge tub of sour cream and a quart of heavy cream. My plan is to make a savory cheesecake every week, and pretty much eat that for lunch all week long. And add lots of mayo, sour cream, butter, olive oil, bacon drippings, coconut oil, and/or heavy cream to everything. I hate the idea of making different food for me and my family. So, I'm just going to add extra fat to everything. On Halloween we're having chili, it's a tradition. So, I'm going to add extra cheese and sour cream to mine. I'm going to make rich sauces made of butter, cream and egg yolks to go with meats and vegetables.
By the way, I found something else at the store. I was looking for a mineral or sparkling water with flavor but no sweetener. I need something bubbly every once in a while, and diet soda is my usual go-to. I have a soda stream I can make flavored water with, but I can't take that to work, etc. So, anyway, I found this canned sparkling water called La Croix, they had lime and grapefruit flavored. I got the grapefruit. No calories, not sweetners, naturally flavored. It is good! And, even better, it was only $3.99/12 pack. My favorite soda, diet Dr. Pepper, is much more than that.

Cathy, what is the amazing looking pie in your avatar picture?
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:28 PM   #772
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Way to go SPECK!!

I have fallen in love with savory cheesecake. My Mom wanted to know why I had 20..yes 20, pkg of cream cheese in the fridge.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:18 AM   #773
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Flower power eggs looks so good! How did they turn out...

My pic is a portion of bacon, spinach quiche. It fits in very well with my moderate protein approach and is great to have as a ready made meal.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:35 AM   #774
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Way to go SPECK!!

I have fallen in love with savory cheesecake. My Mom wanted to know why I had 20..yes 20, pkg of cream cheese in the fridge.
20 packages! I'm going to make a taco cheesecake later today.

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Flower power eggs looks so good! How did they turn out...

My pic is a portion of bacon, spinach quiche. It fits in very well with my moderate protein approach and is great to have as a ready made meal.
I only made two of those eggs, but they were good. The whites ran out of the bottom a bit though. I love quiche. That one looks so wonderful.

Alright, lazy Sunday here. Getting a late start. I'm having coffee/cream and coconut oil right now.
I have a ton of little things to do today, including cleaning out the fridge of uneaten leftovers. I'll probably finish the pumpkin soup, or else it's going down the drain. Not sure about lunch. Dinner is roasted chicken and green beans.

I dropped a pound since yesterday, presumably water weight. Whenever I have periods of questionable food choices, it takes 3 or 4 days for me to see my real weight again.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:23 PM   #775
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I have exactly 45 minutes to get the kitchen into shape before DH gets home. It looks like a bomb went off in there. At least the chicken is in the oven.
I skipped breakfast and didn't eat until about 2pm. Then I had some of that soup, and also a lonely artichoke I found in the crisper drawer, with sour cream-mayo dip. Then I had a "snack" of cold coffee and cream.
I forgot to take my supplements though. I can take most of them now or after dinner. Well, better get to it.
I don't have much time to play online during the week except on my phone, and it's kind of unfun to post using my phone. So, have a great week everyone and I'll be reading and try to post my progress during the week.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:55 PM   #776
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Congratulations on getting back on track, Speck! I'm glad you are feeling and doing better.

I'm on day 4 of my first week of JUDDD. I've had two down days of 300-350 calories/day and am on my second up day, of a scary 1630 calories, with 14 grams carbs, 45 grams protein, and 150 grams fat (lots of cream plus an avocado, coconut butter, and brie). The down days aren't as hard as I had expected them to be, even right at the start, since I've gotten used to having less appetite with nutritional ketosis.
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:07 PM   #777
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Thanks svenskamae. I am doing ok now. I did JUDDD for several months starting about a year ago and gave up in March. I initially lost 5 pounds quickly, but it didn't last. I had a very difficult time keeping the crap out of my up days. The down days weren't tough for me at all. But my up days got out of control. And then, even when they were in check, the weight did not come off. I may try it again at some point with the lessons learned.

I just enjoyed a slice of taco cheesecake I made yesterday. It is so good, it tastes like that Mexican seven layer dip. The recipe is at Taste of Home online, if anyone wants to look at it. I made some adjustments to lower carb counts.
Early this morning I had a two-egg shake with almond milk (my usually word-day breakfast). And coffee with cream. Dinner is chicken with green enchilada sauce and jack cheese, and sour cream.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:55 AM   #778
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minneapolis
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis/Primal/JUDDD
Start Date: January 15, 2012
Sounds like a delicious menu, Speck. Good for you for staying on track.

Sorry that JUDDD didn't work for you; I hope I have better luck. I'm doing JUDDD combined with nutritional ketosis and eating very clean/primal, so I hope that it will help me some. Today's a down day, and I already ate breakfast (2 hard-boiled eggs) and lunch (4 oz roasted chicken breast), so I haven't much ahead of me except a lot of water and possibly some chicken broth and tea with a tablespoon of half and half.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:02 AM   #779
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OH/Involuntary Maint.
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Stats: 235/195/LESS
WOE: Bernstein
Start Date: 9/2010
It has certainly been a crazy week. The ride to Windsor and return were fairy stressful. Coming home on Monday it was a race to get to Ohio before the effects of Sandy kicked in. We made it just in time to ride out the very high winds at home. Lost power for a couple of hours in the middle of the night so we do have some wet carpeting to deal with. All in all this is very minor compared to so many folks. Windsor was a nice area and the people were very nice. I was out shopping and got slightly lost. I asked a lady for directions and she got in her car to lead me to the store I was looking for - how kind was that!

Breakfast was an upgraded continental but it was a real struggle not being able to weigh and measure everything. I stuck to eggs (small omelet or hardboiled) and individual servings of cream cheese (maybe 1T) and peanut butter. I did have to take morning insulin since I was eating breakfast but used packaged foods for the other meals. Several times I had to take a couple of extra units of insulin. All in all I was absolutely dreading weighing in this morning.

This morning I am absolutely convinced that I have no clue how my body works. I weighed in at 189.9 I haven't been below 190+ for years. So how the heck did this happen?? I'm not celebrating since this probably won't stick, but am completely befuddled

Speck I hope you are able to continue making good choices during this time of turmoil.

Svenskamae I wish you well with JUDDD. I tried it, but taking insulin made it impossible. Couldn't adjust the insulin enough to avoid 2 very scary (low 40's bg) lows. Didn't make it through a week. I do think that the calorie ups and downs might make your metabolish think it doesn't need to prepare for the famine!

Cathy and Drj how are you both doing? Cathy you were asking about blood ketone strips so I was wondering if you are testing? Are either of you in NK??
I am not going to test...no extra money for the strips and am not sure it would make any difference for me.

Cathy what is your new avatar? Looks good! I love the savory cheesecake recipe Drjlocarb posted a while ago. Made one yesterday and it will probably be lunch today.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:57 AM   #780
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,308
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Stats: 274 /219/190
WOE: vlc/NK
Start Date: LC-1999,jan2010 274 NK 1-1-13 at 244
I am back to serious NK seeking.

This past month was full of roadblocks...softball tourneys, camping trips, parents visiting for a week, etc. Just not conducive to high fat eating. I just couldn't serve the parents coconut bark for breakfast. No time for measuring and weighing and tracking. I am just not that good at low ptn/hi fat to be able to wing it...yet. I did stay vlc so I just need to get back into the mp/hf swing of things.

Last edited by drjlocarb; 11-01-2012 at 11:00 AM..
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