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Old 09-07-2012, 04:52 PM   #601
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Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
Share, share, share!

Your response to Svenskamae was soooo much more tactfully done than mine.
Tactful, schmactful, I'll take either response with pleasure. It's just good to have somebody interested in the stuff that I keep writing down and marking in the books that I keep buying from Amazon. Pay attention to what seems promising to you, and ignore the rest.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:59 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by svenskamae View Post
Another possible issue/avenue: Has anyone besides me been tested and treated for adrenal fatigue/high cortisol? The nutritionist that I saw on Wednesday commented on having worked with runners who were eating 800-1000 calories a day, apparently using up several thousand calories through running, and gaining weight. They had some better results when they reduced their cortisol levels, and he thought that might be an issue for me. I'll do the cortisol level testing this weekend.
I tested super high for cortisol on the saliva test and high on the 24 hour urine test. I definitely think it was one of the myriad of factors that was keeping me from losing.
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:52 PM   #603
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Had a good day yesterday, but today...oh my! Ate breakfast of 2HB eggs, 2TBS of homemade mayo plus 2TBS of HWC in my coffee and was starving about 3 hours later. Was very stressed, so maybe that is what triggered the episode. I must have eaten 6c of salad with a little protein - maybe 2 ounces, 2 fat bombs and 4TBS of full fat salad dressing for lunch. Managed to drive blood sugar over 100.

Seem to be back on track now for supper but my totals for the day are out of sight.

Anyway - Drjlocarb I add HWC to diet soda - root beer, Dr. Pepper, orange, grape, cream soda and it is sort of like eating a float. Looks a little weird but I enjoy it. Adds fat with no protein.

I make Larry (LJGuitar) fridge fudge chocolate coconut candy which has a lot of fat and minimal protein.

I also made Rebecca's Fat Bombs which are insanely good.

From Linda Sue's website I've made cream cheese clouds using both vanilla and anise flavoring which I really enjoy - again minimal protein but higher fat.

I've also made Pumpkin Sausage Soup from Linda Sue's website - doesn't quite have my fat requirements so I just added a TBS of HWC to my serving.

Anyway if anyone wants Larry's fridge fudge recipe, I can post it.

I've also made your savory cheesecake with either 1oz ham diced or 1oz pepperoni diced. Recently I made it sweet and added 1/2 serving of 85% dark chocolate.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:12 PM   #604
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Did jfox thread 2 get deleted?

I had thigs to say.

Last edited by drjlocarb; 09-08-2012 at 09:14 PM..
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:48 AM   #605
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I found the 1 thread where he talks about Taubes, etc that went for 2 pages. The only other recent post I found was in this old thread that he resurrected:

If you have totally failed on Atkins, please post here

I don't see any other recent posts that he started.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:51 AM   #606
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It's gone. Someone must have said something .... I missed whatever that was. Seemed like a troll to me but I couldn't resist (as usual).
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:44 AM   #607
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Oh, did I miss some fun?
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:31 PM   #608
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Yes, you sure did.
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:50 AM   #609
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[B]svenskamae[B] I do take metformin extended release. I've probably been taking it 10 years and don't recall any unpleasant side effects. Honestly, I'm not sure it really does anything for me . When I began taking it I thought it would help me lose weight, but it didn't seem to help at all. During those years I was mostly SAD with occasional ventures into LC. Probably the only way to determine what it actually does for me is to stop it for a couple of months, and I'm not willing to do that. Most of what I've read is that is a fairly benign drug and may help prevent several diseases so I just stay on it.

I'm really sorry I missed the fun with jfox. The other thread mentioning Gary Taubes was ridiculous. Kept asking the same question and ignoring the answers!

I am trying hard to get at least 2.5x as much fat as protein at each meal. My thinking is that I have a meal that is mostly protein that will spike my blood sugar. Even if I make up the fat grams elsewhere in the day, that blood sugar increase won't be undone.

How is everyone doing? Guess I'm happy that my bounce has decreased but sure as heck would like to see an actual loss!
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:41 AM   #610
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I do think the protein needs to be balanced with double fat if you are eating meat at that meal. I only eat 2 meals a day and I think I will try to eat a fat fast "meal" for one of those meals and meat with fat the other meal. I don't feel like it is a meal with only 2 bites of steak.

Yesterday I spent hours on ****** adding and subtracting 2 T. of this and 1 oz of that. How do you track steak when all the steak is "lean portions only and trimmed to 0" fat"? I eat the fat and it is not trimmed to 0" fat. So, I had to guess how much fat is included with the tiny piece of steak I just ate. Then I had a Turkey wing and had to guess how much skin was on the "yield after cooking, bone removed". AND I shared some with the cat and the dogs. I didn't weigh the animals before and after!

What about bacon?? I buy the bacon everybody pushes aside because it has mostly fat. How do you log the "almost all fat" bacon cooked extra crispy vs "mostly lean" bacon cooked all limp-y??

Soo... I had;

Meal#1-- cream cheese(2oz) and sour cream(1 oz), microwaved on a plate with a few chopped onions, 1 piece of fatty, crisp bacon, topped with 0.8 oz cheddar cheese.

Meal # 2-- turkey wing-med, plus 1 oz chicken skin, 4 oz zucchini, 1 T. butter, 0.4 oz Parm cheese.

I use 2527 cal for if I do NOTHING all day long, according to ******.
Ate 71-4-25% F/C/P--92g/11g/66g for a total of 1174 calories.

I should dwindle away to nothing in no time flat!!! Right??

Let's see, 3500 cal/lb of fat and I am 1300 cal short/day. So I'm going to lose 2.5 lbs/week. WAIT! I don't sit around all day doing nothing! I am going to lose 5 lbs a week!

Thank-you ******...I'm so excited!!
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:42 AM   #611
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:10 AM   #612
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I am going to make this today. The ptn/fat ratio is great.


http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ni-cheese.html
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:33 AM   #613
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Drj, looks like you are really giving this great effort. I sure hope it pays off.

Love the mac and cheese - add 1/8 tsp garlic powder and it is identical to the recipe I use. Think I might put cauliflower on my shopping list!!

Maureen, a smaller bounce is for sure better!!
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:43 AM   #614
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Here's more evidence in favor of upping the fat and cutting the protein.

I've been reading a book about managing PCOS through diet, and the author is somewhat in favor of lowcarb (says to give up all grains, legumes, and dairy), but not in favor of raising the percentage fat above 40 percent because that will increase insulin resistence (which is an underlying problem for PCOS). I assume that reasoning is also behind the lowfat diet recommendations of the American Diabetes Association, etc.

So then I looked at Phinney and Volek ("Art of Low Carb Living") again, and found that they agree that diets with 40-60% fat raise insulin resistence. They then claim that things will work differently with a "well-formulated ketogenic diet" with 60-85% fat. Now I personally doubt that the body calculates that the percentage fat is 61% rather than 60%, and behaves differently, in terms of insulin response, at 61% rather than 60%. I think the key words are actually "ketogenic diet," and that those of us whose bodies want to burn sugar rather than fat will have to keep our protein intake pretty low and our fat intake pretty high to have a "ketogenic diet," i.e., the sort of intake that would have us test as "being in nutritional ketosis" with the blood moniter. And this is also consistent with results like Maureen's of finding that she is getting better blood sugar readings when raising fat and limiting protein.

When I first read Phinney and Volek, I think that a lot of detail just went over my head, and I basically read "so it's okay to eat a lot of fat if you just keep carb levels very low" as the message. But follow-up information, as in the Phinney interview by Jimmy Moore, suggests that protein intake is another important factor to watch, which is not inconsistent with the "Low Carb Living" book, but not stressed a lot there.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:47 AM   #615
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Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
I am going to make this today. The ptn/fat ratio is great.


http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ni-cheese.html
Thanks, drj. I'll print it out and try it myself, sometime soon.

I've pulled a bunch of other recipes with high fat percentages and will post them soon. Some are ways of flavoring butter, so that one has a more interesting version of butter to dump onto veggies or put on small servings of protein.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:25 PM   #616
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Low carb DOES cause insulin resistance. BUT, it is physiological insulin resistance. I have this problem and with the high protein levels and the VERY efficient liver, it was driving my FBG too high. But the minute I increased the carbs, my FBG fell to normal levels. At no point did my BG go sky high after meals..LC or not.

My understanding of physiological insulin resistance is that as the supply of glucose decreases and the supply of ketones increases, some cells turn off the receptors for glucose and that makes them insulin resistant. It is like they are just being polite and will use ketones and save the glucose for the cell that NEED glucose. It is not a permanent thing, just a physiological thing.

My liver thinks it's being a real hero and will pump out too much glucose for everyone even if they want to use ketones. So the poor little ketones get shuttled back into the fat cells.

I am hoping by decreasing the protein available and increasing the dietary fat, I will convince my liver that there is no famine and to just let fat do what fat is supposed to do.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:02 PM   #617
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Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
Low carb DOES cause insulin resistance. BUT, it is physiological insulin resistance. I have this problem and with the high protein levels and the VERY efficient liver, it was driving my FBG too high. But the minute I increased the carbs, my FBG fell to normal levels. At no point did my BG go sky high after meals..LC or not.

My understanding of physiological insulin resistance is that as the supply of glucose decreases and the supply of ketones increases, some cells turn off the receptors for glucose and that makes them insulin resistant. It is like they are just being polite and will use ketones and save the glucose for the cell that NEED glucose. It is not a permanent thing, just a physiological thing.

My liver thinks it's being a real hero and will pump out too much glucose for everyone even if they want to use ketones. So the poor little ketones get shuttled back into the fat cells.

I am hoping by decreasing the protein available and increasing the dietary fat, I will convince my liver that there is no famine and to just let fat do what fat is supposed to do.
My understanding as well. It is not pathological insulin resistance. I have the same and it is reported by a number of high profile low carb bloggers as well.

I was thinking that some soups might fit the parameters of LC/HF/mod P. I am getting out my recipe file and my online food tracker!!
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:16 PM   #618
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I'm actually trying to make a different point than the one about non-pathological insulin resistence (as a sort of dawn phenomenon) while eating low carb. I'll cite the relevant pages of Phinney and Volek when I have the book in hand. It's a minor point but one that struck me when I reread sections of the book over the weekend. I can make the point more effectively if I quote the Phinney and Volek book directly.

The more important issue is whether, as drj says, one will end up drawing on fat stores by decreasing available protein and increasing fat intake. I certainly hope that works.

Sauces and appetizer dips are promising sections of cookbooks to check for high fat recipes. Any cream soup that calls for milk could be turned into a high fat food by substituting HWC for lower fat milks, I imagine. Please share promising recipes, Cathy.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:51 PM   #619
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Drjlocarb I know just what you mean! I've spent so much time with my online tracker that my husband made a crack yesterday how the fitness tracker must be my new pal.....yes I told him - this fitness tracker is definitely my pal .

The tracker I use does list steak trimmed to 1/8", 1/4", untrimmed. Maybe if you measure how thick the fat is and just double or triple the amount they list you would have a ballpark estimate. Another way that might work is to cook the steak, trim all the fat off the edges and weigh the fat. I think 1oz is 28g so you would have some idea. I try and take off whatever I think I will share with my "furballs" before I weigh my portion.

Thanks for the link to Dotties recipe. I'll have to give it a try. I made one called Cauliflower & Ham Salad on Linda Sue's website. It is under Salads - Main Dish and is very good. I actually used frozen cauliflower so it was easy.

Svenskamae I will be interested in the comments about insulin resistance as I have not read either book.
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:21 PM   #620
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I'm trying to keep my protein under 55 grams/day, so I'm doing small servings of protein and limiting the number of meals I eat. For example, today I had:
Breakfast: cream in coffee
Lunch: shrimp salad made with 4 oz of shrimp/sourcream/avocado
Dinner: small serving of liver pate (with about equal parts butter and chicken livers) on 3 flax crackers, plus 2 T. coconut butter.

I'll let myself have 1/4 cup of almonds and some beef bone broth when I get home from work. If I'm still really hungry, I'll make a green salad with 1/4 cup full fat dressing.

Today's food (not counting the possible salad) adds up to 101 grams of fat, 13 grams of net carbs, 56 grams of protein, and 1222 calories (74% fat).

This way (high fat, moderate protein, low carb) of eating doesn't seem like much food. Maybe I need to up my non-starch veggie intake to feel less deprived.
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:54 PM   #621
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http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...a-recipes.html

Just in case you're not surfing.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:39 AM   #622
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Excellent! Thanks, drj.

I brought in the Phinney and Volek book and a bunch of my own high fat recipes; I'll post more this evening. I don't have the nutritional breakdown for my recipes (I've copied them down from various sources over many years), but they are relatively high in fat, low in carbs, and moderate to low in protein.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:59 PM   #623
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Follow-up to my earlier post--

Here's the reference to the effects of the percentage of fat in diet and insulin resistence, in Phinney and Volek's "Art and Science of Low Carb Living":

on pp. 86-87
"Why Do Many Experts Believe that High Fat Diets Cause Insulin Resistence?

The definition of a high fat diet in the scientific literature is remarkably broad. Given the current demonization of dietary fat, any diet providing more than 35% of energy as fat is typically called 'high fat.' ... What we do know is that, pretty consistently, as dietary fat percent is increased from 30% to 60% in animals and in humans, insulin sensitivity does get worse. But once above 60% energy as fat, which typically translates to less than 20% of energy as carbohydrates (assuming 15-20% from protein), insulin resistence turns around and starts to improve. So what's happened is that the mainstream consensus did studies of up to 60% fat, saw what looked like a straight line, and then just assumed it kept on going in a bad direction. In a word, they extrapolated themselves to a false conclusion.

But if you look at well done studies at higher fat intakes, this extrapolation doesn't stand the 'red face test.' For example .... [cites 2 studies of low carb intake lowering insulin resistence, presumably at above 60% of calories from fat]."

My point in quoting this is to say that maybe the key factors, for some of us, aren't just how low your net carb levels are, but also whether all the factors--net carbs, protein levels, etc.--add up to being in nutritional ketosis.

Maybe there is some magic sensing mechanism in the body that increases insulin resistence when fat makes up 40-60 percent of calories, and suddenly reduces insulin resistence at 61% of calories from fat. But my guess is that it's a little more complicated, and Phinney and Volek are using the "60 percent of calories from fat" as another way of saying "in full ketosis"--and some of us don't get into full ketosis if our protein levels are too high, even if our carb levels are low and our percentage of fat intake is 61% or higher. Note that the Phinney and Volek statement actually refers to limited protein intake ("assuming 15-20% from protein)," which I largely overlooked the first time I read the book.

When I was losing at a glacial rate, recently, I was keeping my carb levels low and my fat levels (slightly) above 60% of calories, but my protein percent tended to be around 20-29% of intake. Now that I'm limiting protein to around 50 grams, protein is making up around 15% of calories. I'm hoping that's the additional step I need to take to lose more weight.

So, Maureen, this is the passage I was thinking of and referred to earlier.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:08 PM   #624
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Some high fat recipes--this set is based on making butter have more flavor (and then putting it on veggies, fish, chicken, bread substitutes, celergy stalks, etc.)

1. Butter with Fine Herbs and Garlic
1/3 c. butter, at room temperature
3 T. minced fresh herbs
1 t. lemon juice
1 large shallot, minced,
1 garlic clove, minced
Fresh ground pepper
Work herbs into butter and gradually add lemon juice. Stir in remaining ingredients.

2. Spicy butter, Moroccan style
1/2 c. butter at room temp.
2 T. minced parsley
1 T. minced cilantro
3 pinches ground cumin
1/4-1/2 t. ground red pepper, or to taste
Combine ingredients until well blended.

3. Blue Devil Butter (for fish or other things)
6 T. softened butter
3 T. blue cheese
1 T. anchovy paste (optional)
1/2 t. dry mustard
1 t. white vinegar
1 t. lemon juice
Combine butter, cheese, and anchovy paste. Dissolve mustard in vinegar and lemon juice, then blend into butter mixture.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:13 PM   #625
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Another recipe, featuring our good friend HWC

Shrimp Diablo
4 T. butter
1 onion, minced
1 celery stalk, minced
1 green pepper, diced
4 garlic cloves, minced
1 14.5 oz can diced tomatoes
1/4 lb. mushrooms, sliced
1 cup heavy cream
1 lb. medium shrimp, peeled and deveined but raw
1 jalopeno, seeded and minced
1 T. lemon juice
2 t. dry basil
1/2 t. thyme
Salt and pepper

Melt butter, and saute onion, celery, and green pepper until soft. Add garlic. Add tomatoes and mushrooms, reduce heat to simmer, about 5 minutes or until sauce thickens. Stir in cream, shrimp, jalapeno, and lemon juice. Reduce heat to low, cover, and simmer until shrimp turn pink, about 4 minutes. Add spices and season to taste.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:21 PM   #626
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Now featuring heavy cream and sour cream as partners, here's

Steak Stroganoff
1 boneless strip loin steak, 8-12 oz., 1-1.5 inches thick
Salt and pepper
2 T. butter
1 onion, thinly sliced
8 oz mushrooms, sliced
1.5 t. dried dill
2 T. dry sherry or other wine or broth
1/2 c. heavy cream
1/2 c. sour cream
1 t. Dijon mustard

Pat the steak dry and season with salt and pepper. Melt 1 T. butter in large skillet. When it foams, add steak and cook without disturbing for 2.5 to 3 minutes. Turn and sear on other side for 3 minutes. Transfer steak to cutting board to rest. Lower heat to medium, add 1 T. butter to pan, and then add mushrooms and a pinch of salt. Cook until mushrooms release their juices, adding more butter as needed. Add wine and cook until liquid evaporates. Add cream and cook until bubbly and thick, about 5 minutes. Reduce heat to low and stir in sour cream and mustard. Season to taste. Slice steak into 1/4" strips against the grain (it will be rare). Stir meat into sauce along with dill. Serve as is or over greens (e.g., over steamed or sauteed spinach).
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:27 PM   #627
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Another recipe with HWC, this is really good if you like Indian food.

Saag Paneer
Butter
8 oz paneer, cut in cubes (I buy frozen at Asian grocery store)
1 onion, diced
1 t. cumin
1/4 t. cinnamon
2 garlic cloves, minced
1 t. minced fresh ginger
1 14.5 oz can diced tomatoes
Pinch cayenne
1/2 t. ground tumeric
1 t. ground coriander
1/2 t. garam masala or other curry powder
1 t. salt, sprinkling of pepper
2 heaping T. tomato paste
1 cup heavy cream
1 16 oz bag frozen spinach, thawed and squeezed to remove extra water
Melt butter over medium health in heavy pot and saute paneer for a few minutes. Add onion and saute until soft. Add sprices, tomatoes, tomato paste, and spinach. Cook, stirring, to remove excess water and thicken. Add cream and heat through.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:31 PM   #628
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Chicken Livers Deluxe (from The Farm Home Journal Cookbook, an old cookbook that doesn't fear the fat)

Butter
1 small onion, minced
1 lb. chicken livers
1/2 t. salt, some pepper
1 to 1.5 cups sour cream
Melt butter in heavy skillet and saute onion. Add chicken livers and brown about 5 minutes. Season to taste. Stir in sour cream and heat through. Serve as is or over greens.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:45 PM   #629
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Start Date: January 15, 2012
For meals based on veggies and butter, with no or minimal protein, consider:

Caraway Buttered Cabbage
1/4 c. butter
1 t. caraway seeds, crushed
1 t. salt
2 T. water
6 cups coarsely chopped or shredded cabbage

Melt butter in pan. Add remaining ingredients. Steam, covered, until cabbage is tender, about 10 minutes. Stir to combine. Add additional butter, if desired.

OR

San Matteo Brussel Sprouts
Fresh brussel sprouts
Butter
Lemon juice
Sour cream
Salt and pepper
Wash sprouts. Trim stem ends and cut an X in base to hasten cooking. Remove loose leaves. Let stand a few minutes in cool salted water. Heat butter in skillet over medium heat. Drain sprouts and add to hot butter. Cover and steam about 10 minutes, shaking skillet occasionally, until sprouts are tender crisp. Add lemon juice and steam 2 minutes more. Add seasoning and sour cream.

OR

Buttery Tomato Skillet
1/4 c. butter
1/2 c. chopped onion
2 T. minced parsley
1/2 t. salt, some pepper
1/4 t. dried thyme
4-6 whole tomatoes, peeled and cored
Melt butter in skillet. Add onion and saute until transparent. Add spices and tomatoes, cored side down. Cover and cook 5 minutes. Turn tomatoes and baste with butter. Cover and cook 5 minutes more.

OR

Garlic Mushrooms
1 lb mushrooms, cleaned and sliced
1/4 c. butter
2 T. olive oil
1 T. minced parsley (opt)
1 T. minced garlic
1/2 cup stock
Saute mushrooms in butter and oil, with onion and garlic, until glossy and golden, Add parsley and stock and cook 2 minutes longer. Season with salt and pepper. Serve over steamed greens to sop up the juices.

Mushrooms with Paprika and Sour Cream
1.5 T each butter and olive oil
1 bunch scallions, chopped
1 lb. mushrooms, thinly sliced
Salt and pepper
1 T. sweet paprika
1/2 c. broth
1/2 c. sour cream
Heat oil and butter in large skillet over high heat. Add scallions and mushrooms and saute. Lower heat and season with salt, pepper, and paprika. Add stock and simmer 5 minutes. Stir in sour cream to heat but don't boil.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:24 PM   #630
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Join Date: May 2012
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis/Primal/JUDDD
Start Date: January 15, 2012
More high fat recipes:

Boursin-style dip for raw veggies or as spread
8 oz cream cheese
1 T. lemon juice
1 garlic clove, minced
1/2 t. Worcestershire sauce
1/2 t. dry mustard
1 T. minced fresh parsley
1 T. minced fresh chives
Other herbs to taste (optional)
Cream to thin
Mix ingredients. Store in fridge but serve at room temperature.

Cream cheese smoked oyster spread
Mash contents of 1 tin of smoked oysters in oil and stir into softened cream cheese along with lemon juice and Worcestershire sauce and hot sauce to taste. Thin with sour cream, if desired.

Shrimp spread with dill
8 oz cream cheese, softened
1/4 cup mayonnaise
8 oz cooked shrimp
Chopped dill
1 stalk celery, minced
3 green onions, chopped
1 T. Worcestershire sauce
1/2 t. garlic powder or 2 cloves garlic, minced
Few drops Tobasco
Pinch black pepper
1 T. Lemon juice
Combine ingredients in food processor.

Lemon Tarragon Smoked Salmon Spread
1 4 oz package smoked salmon
8 oz cream cheese, softened
1 T. prepared horseradish, or to taste
2 t. dried tarragon
Pinch salt
4 t. lemon juice and zest of 1 lemon
Pulse salmon in food processor to dice. Add remaining ingredients and process until smooth.

Artichoke pesto dip
6-8 oz cream cheese, softened
1 can artichoke hearts, drained and cut in half
1 7-oz container pesto sauce
Pulse in food processor.
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