BMR!!! Eating To your BMR... No Matter What!

[GME]

Yikes Kisha, that's frutrating. I hope your thyroid test is helpful (I don't want to wish thyroid problems on you, but it would be an explanation).

I've been stuck for awhile, but I know I have no one by myself and the ice cream scoop to blame.

Any luck with the exercise? I know you are not an exercise fan, but let me tell you a little story about me.....

I have attempted to lose weight many, MANY times. I always do fine for awhile, then the losses slow down and eventually come to halt. I would usually just give up. Sometimes I would eat less and less, and then give up. Why put in so much effort for no return?

In April I restarted (again) LC and I started the Couch to 5K program (no one was more surprised than me) and I started walk/jogging. The program starts you with a very short amount of time running, mixed with walking and gradually increases the running time.

As always, my weight loss slowed, then eventually stopped. But this time I had other ways to measure progress. I could look back and realize that even though I hadn't lost any weight, I could run X straight minutes when I could only go 30 seconds before. I lost inches, I firmed up and generally felt better. I was able to take the focus off the scale and put it on fitness. It has made it much easier to ride out the slow, frustrating times with the scale because I am moving forward in other areas.

[Ilpirata]

I wish my thyroid was the answer but it's working just fine.

I'm really just getting it tested to rule it out.
I'm definately not counting on it!

[Zer]

What an inspiring testimonial! I hope Ilpirata can make use of this idea - and I cherish a small hope that I too might someday become more active. C25K? Well, who knows what might lie ahead for a 65yr-old who dumps 200# and finds better balance in a LC life! Thanks for sharing your experience here!

Originally Posted by GME

I know you are not an exercise fan, but let me tell you a little story about me.....

I have attempted to lose weight many, MANY times. I always do fine for awhile, then the losses slow down and eventually come to halt. I would usually just give up. Sometimes I would eat less and less, and then give up. Why put in so much effort for no return?

In April I restarted (again) LC and I started the Couch to 5K program (no one was more surprised than me) and I started walk/jogging. The program starts you with a very short amount of time running, mixed with walking and gradually increases the running time.

As always, my weight loss slowed, then eventually stopped. But this time I had other ways to measure progress. I could look back and realize that even though I hadn't lost any weight, I could run X straight minutes when I could only go 30 seconds before. I lost inches, I firmed up and generally felt better. I was able to take the focus off the scale and put it on fitness. It has made it much easier to ride out the slow, frustrating times with the scale because I am moving forward in other areas.

[skeeweeaka]

Originally Posted by GME

Yikes Kisha, that's frutrating. I hope your thyroid test is helpful (I don't want to wish thyroid problems on you, but it would be an explanation).

I've been stuck for awhile, but I know I have no one by myself and the ice cream scoop to blame.

Any luck with the exercise? I know you are not an exercise fan, but let me tell you a little story about me.....

I have attempted to lose weight many, MANY times. I always do fine for awhile, then the losses slow down and eventually come to halt. I would usually just give up. Sometimes I would eat less and less, and then give up. Why put in so much effort for no return?

In April I restarted (again) LC and I started the Couch to 5K program (no one was more surprised than me) and I started walk/jogging. The program starts you with a very short amount of time running, mixed with walking and gradually increases the running time.

As always, my weight loss slowed, then eventually stopped. But this time I had other ways to measure progress. I could look back and realize that even though I hadn't lost any weight, I could run X straight minutes when I could only go 30 seconds before. I lost inches, I firmed up and generally felt better. I was able to take the focus off the scale and put it on fitness. It has made it much easier to ride out the slow, frustrating times with the scale because I am moving forward in other areas.

Congrats to you GME... I am on the C25 Program as well and am in week 9 and I agree it did give me a different way to look at things. However, for the past couple of weeks I have been stuck and not exercising... I tried M&E last week and didn't lose a pound. Have only lost a couple of pounds since starting the C25 Program....but I am proud of myself...

Finishing up week 9 this week if I can muster up enough courage to do so... It's been a difficult couple of weeks....hopefully things will get better...

Wishing everyone the best...

TJ

[Ilpirata]

Yikes Kisha, that's frutrating. I hope your thyroid test is helpful (I don't want to wish thyroid problems on you, but it would be an explanation).

I've been stuck for awhile, but I know I have no one by myself and the ice cream scoop to blame.

Any luck with the exercise? I know you are not an exercise fan, but let me tell you a little story about me.....

I have attempted to lose weight many, MANY times. I always do fine for awhile, then the losses slow down and eventually come to halt. I would usually just give up. Sometimes I would eat less and less, and then give up. Why put in so much effort for no return?

Thanks Gina. I think I too am hoping the thyroid test will have the answers. I'm getting the blood taken tomorrow morning.

I haven't started the exercise yet -you're such an inspiration! I'm working up to it though i swear! Lol.

[CairnMom]

You know Ilpirata I just joined this site and have been reading this thread for the better part of an hour now.... first off, what a great group of supportive people here! You guys are awesome!

One of the things I love about LC is using myself as my own personal science experiment to see what works for me. Thinking about your situation a couple thoughts (for what they are worth).... anything we do the same over time, our body tends to adapt to. You were really low calorie for a while and when you upped it, you lost, then stalled. And I know you have tried cutting out various things etc.

Have you tried changing your calorie level from day to day (but always above your BMR?) - just to change it up a little. I think our bodies really do get used to things and stop responding.

Just my $0.23! Good luck with your thyroid test.

[SlimMoeDee]

Hello all. I joined this forum on 09/21. The last time I lost any weight was on 09/24 (3 lbs.) Haven't lost any (repeat, ANY) more pounds. Gotta make some changes. It's got to be the Splenda. I have nothing else to give up. I picked up some Stevia today. Hoping to see some movement.

Can everybody post how much weight they have lost since eating to their BMR?

[Zer]

Saw a naturopath Tuesday, for the first time. She ran a test off me, with stuff attached to left foot and left hand (wires, clips, electrodes?) and told me that my BMR is 2,605cals (up slightly from what I've been struggling to get to daily, 2,423cals, and not finding easy to get to while whittling carbs down to <5%) and that my lean body mass (lean muscle, bone, vital organs - including skin) is 184# at 5'10" (although we agree that I may be shrinking, at 64, as most do). Fat is 209# - and only part of that is excess, apparently, for a 5'10" person. She thinks I'll be fit at 250# or so. Still got a ways to go, just aiming for my goal of 299# from 390.8#. Sigh.

More data will come, I gather, as she writes up her assessment of me and a program that is designed to open my lymph system that is apparently knotted to a degree that explains a lot of my pain and aches. That's good news, that she sees me as knotted up and in need of supplements that will UN-knot me!

We went through my store of supplements, pitching those out of date or bad for lack of refrigeration. I'll finish up my WPP from ALGittleman and then switch to a protein powder that my naturopath recommends. ALG's WPP is a bit carby, so that change might help me cut my carbs back to <5%. Yay!

She seems pleased that I am eating mostly fish, that I've discovered that I do not digest red meat as easily as I digest fish - apparently. I'll still eat some, but not probably more than once a week. Liverwurst seems all right, so far, but I do believe that my recent foray into a beefy menu feature is a part of what is congesting my innards and producing massive pain in lower back and in lower gut (where my lap would be, if I had a lap). More will be revealed, I gather, as the results of the testing are expanded with a live blood scan. My own blood, a drop of it, can be viewed on a scanner, when I get myself into the naturopath's office, right here in town. First, I need to get off my bed.

I'm feeling hopeful. On Monday, my weight was 390.8, as I cut back on my food intake to ease painful gut and lower back (seems related to digestive inflammation) and pump in water to flush out what I can get rid of. All good.

Water? The naturopath wants me to buy bottled water. I am reluctant to go that route, as I suspect that giving up local tapwater will put me in a fix, if I lose ability to tolerate SoCal sludge that flows from the tap. Seems to me a better path, to stay with tapwater that flows freely and is available to me, than to attempt to find a source of purchased water that may or may NOT be as pure as naturopath feels purchased water is. What do you think?

[WenB]

Zer,

What about a britta water pitcher? You use tap water and it's filtered through charcoal.

I used one for probably 6 years - until I got a fridge with a water dispenser and charcoal filter.

[Zer]

Naturopathic doctor winced, but admitted that a Brita is better than nothing, so I've got to get some filters and get back to using the Brita that I quit using as I got how many times I'd have to renew the filter. Just got to get supplies and I can work with tapwater. ND says that just drinking clean water and activating my lymph glands to open up and release (as happens when one bounces on a rebounder, which I do not have but MAY get, if only to bounce my feet on as I sit safely) can change my whole health picture. That's sure a tempting idea!

Lymph system is a cleansing system, I gather. Got to activate mine. Fast!!! Link explains how lymph system works to build autoimmunity.

Lymph is a clearish liquid that bathes the cells with water and nutrients. Lymph is blood plasma -- the liquid that makes up blood minus the red and white cells.

[Ilpirata]

One of the things I love about LC is using myself as my own personal science experiment to see what works for me. Thinking about your situation a couple thoughts (for what they are worth).... anything we do the same over time, our body tends to adapt to. You were really low calorie for a while and when you upped it, you lost, then stalled. And I know you have tried cutting out various things etc.

Hi CairnMom,
I actually have not yet tried drastically altering my caloric intake from day to day (but over BMR). Pending the results of my thyroid test its definately a suggestion worth trying! I'm putting it on the list (right after upping my carbs). It really is SUCH a battle to get this right and it can be hard not to get discouraged. The fact is though that I will NEVER give up, NEVER. Even if I have to tweak for the next five years thats what I'll do to get to goal.

[retroworx]

Originally Posted by Zer

Saw a naturopath Tuesday, for the first time. She ran a test off me, with stuff attached to left foot and left hand (wires, clips, electrodes?) and told me that my BMR is 2,605cals (up slightly from what I've been struggling to get to daily, 2,423cals, and not finding easy to get to while whittling carbs down to <5%) and that my lean body mass (lean muscle, bone, vital organs - including skin) is 184# at 5'10" (although we agree that I may be shrinking, at 64, as most do). Fat is 209# - and only part of that is excess, apparently, for a 5'10" person. She thinks I'll be fit at 250# or so. Still got a ways to go, just aiming for my goal of 299# from 390.8#. Sigh.

More data will come, I gather, as she writes up her assessment of me and a program that is designed to open my lymph system that is apparently knotted to a degree that explains a lot of my pain and aches. That's good news, that she sees me as knotted up and in need of supplements that will UN-knot me!

We went through my store of supplements, pitching those out of date or bad for lack of refrigeration. I'll finish up my WPP from ALGittleman and then switch to a protein powder that my naturopath recommends. ALG's WPP is a bit carby, so that change might help me cut my carbs back to <5%. Yay!

She seems pleased that I am eating mostly fish, that I've discovered that I do not digest red meat as easily as I digest fish - apparently. I'll still eat some, but not probably more than once a week. Liverwurst seems all right, so far, but I do believe that my recent foray into a beefy menu feature is a part of what is congesting my innards and producing massive pain in lower back and in lower gut (where my lap would be, if I had a lap). More will be revealed, I gather, as the results of the testing are expanded with a live blood scan. My own blood, a drop of it, can be viewed on a scanner, when I get myself into the naturopath's office, right here in town. First, I need to get off my bed.

I'm feeling hopeful. On Monday, my weight was 390.8, as I cut back on my food intake to ease painful gut and lower back (seems related to digestive inflammation) and pump in water to flush out what I can get rid of. All good.

Water? The naturopath wants me to buy bottled water. I am reluctant to go that route, as I suspect that giving up local tapwater will put me in a fix, if I lose ability to tolerate SoCal sludge that flows from the tap. Seems to me a better path, to stay with tapwater that flows freely and is available to me, than to attempt to find a source of purchased water that may or may NOT be as pure as naturopath feels purchased water is. What do you think?

Zer:

Glad to hear you are getting some assistance with your pains and the mysteries of your particular metabolism.

[Zer]

Lately I've been slamming a pound of protein into me, over a few hours of taking a bite or two at a time. So hard to force protein. But I do try. Now I read this (from another LCFriends thread) and am wondering if I have taken a wrong turn in tweaking my LC plan.

...I think a lot of people who have depression on LC are eating too much protein.

Excess protein reduces serotonin
and can cause that angry-tearful-moody thing.

To solve this issue... switch to a very high fat diet
with moderate protein intake.

High protein is almost as bad mood-wise as high carb.

High fat is antidepressant and mood stabilizing by decreasing brain glutamate and increasing GABA. It's like lithium or valproate or something. In fact, high fat, low carb, low protein is used for epileptic kids. Mood disorders especially bipolar type are related to the brain defects in epilepsy.

I've just jacked up my protein target to 182g and am having a hard time reaching that. Trying to save what muscle tone I can, by eating more protein than I want. Used to get a day or two of meals from a can of tuna or salmon, now open up cans to make a pound of fish, with intent to eat that in a few hours. What if that's part of my shift in outlook? Thanks for the heads-up on this!

I did wonder if my problem digesting beef has to do with feeling sorry for feedlot cattle that suffer so during the process of being turned into burgers. Fish seems easier to digest, although forking protein into me is harder than forking carbs (for which I seem to have no limit at all). Go figure!

Anyone consider that maybe eating too much protein can mess up a LC plan?

[DesertRose]

This needs to be addressed in relation to each person. I was low at about 50g, needed about 75g, (rough estimate), felt better when I upped it. If I was reaching for 125g or 150g, then maybe this would kick in and I might be depressed. Is there a book source of this info?

[Zer]

Originally Posted by DesertRose

This needs to be addressed in relation to each person. I was low at about 50g, needed about 75g, (rough estimate), felt better when I upped it. If I was reaching for 125g or 150g, then maybe this would kick in and I might be depressed. Is there a book source of this info?

Want published data? A fast google shows

246,000 [results] for "high protein reduces serotonin". (0.23 seconds)

What I read was prefaced with the words "I think" and I take the post to be a personal experience offered in the course of a discussion.

[skeeweeaka]

Originally Posted by Zer

Lately I've been slamming a pound of protein into me, over a few hours of taking a bite or two at a time. So hard to force protein. But I do try. Now I read this (from another LCFriends thread) and am wondering if I have taken a wrong turn in tweaking my LC plan. I've just jacked up my protein target to 182g and am having a hard time reaching that. Trying to save what muscle tone I can, by eating more protein than I want. Used to get a day or two of meals from a can of tuna or salmon, now open up cans to make a pound of fish, with intent to eat that in a few hours. What if that's part of my shift in outlook? Thanks for the heads-up on this!

I did wonder if my problem digesting beef has to do with feeling sorry for feedlot cattle that suffer so during the process of being turned into burgers. Fish seems easier to digest, although forking protein into me is harder than forking carbs (for which I seem to have no limit at all). Go figure!

Anyone consider that maybe eating too much protein can mess up a LC plan?

Interesting....think I will do some research on this but i moved from higher protein levels to Eat Fat, Get Thin which are more moderate... I definitely felt better...don't know if it was the fat or more carbs...

TJ

[retroworx]

Don't know about the serotonin, but I've read that too much protein can get converted to fat. 'Course you can also find plenty of folks with the contrary opinion

[GME]

Originally Posted by retroworx

'Course you can also find plenty of folks with the contrary opinion

I have a lot of contrary opinions.

[amiga74]

Originally Posted by Zer

Water? The naturopath wants me to buy bottled water. I am reluctant to go that route, as I suspect that giving up local tapwater will put me in a fix, if I lose ability to tolerate SoCal sludge that flows from the tap. Seems to me a better path, to stay with tapwater that flows freely and is available to me, than to attempt to find a source of purchased water that may or may NOT be as pure as naturopath feels purchased water is. What do you think?

i think the regular tap water is just fine. however, perhaps you could consider buying a water filter, such as a Brita filter. (usually around $15-20).you replace the filter every few months (3-4, on avg). it would filter the water and you also would be saving on plastic bottles. also, it is far less expensive!

[Zer]

Tapwater it is, for me, in spite of all the floaties one sees in it. I'll get with the Brita filter program, scrub out my Brita pitcher, bleach it as needed to keep the growth or cultures at bay - just as I bleach my plastic water bottles when I see "smudges" on the inside from growths/cultures taking hold. I can DO this!

I'm a believer that drinking water is a key part of what makes LC'ing work!

Here's hoping my digestive system can handle the lifeforms that give some folks the shudders about drinking tapwater in SoCal. I'm banking on articles that say that bottled water is not as pure as folks paying for it hope that it is.

Evian and other sparkly waters? Kind of a treat, now and then. But for my money, a gallon a day from my handy tap will do for this LC'er. Drink UP!

[Ilpirata]

Hello Ladies,

Well, i'm on like week three or four of no cheese no nuts. Maybe its good news that my weight still refuses to drop below 208? Good news because I can perhaps stop blaming cheese and nuts for my incredibly slow weight loss.

On another note I finally got in at the lab this morning to get my blood drawn. I'm having a whole battery of basic metabollic, thyroid and some other tests done. Maybe the answer lies there. Don't know.

I should have the results by monday. If it IS thyroid that means I get to pay out of pocket for an endo to put me on meds. If its NOT my thyroid I'm going to immediately start upping my carbs towards 50 or 60 a day and see if THAT helps me lost faster. And by faster I DO MEAN, AT ALL.

[i.am.jenn]

Ilpirata: I know people say I'm reaching, but I had my bloodwork drawn last Friday and the doc put me back on Metformin, not for Diabetes Type II but apparently she diagnosed me PCOS a looooong time ago and didn't tell me. All I know is, on the Metformin I *feel* better, I'm able to eat LC soooo much easier and I've dropped 7 lbs of water weight in 6 days. I think, really, sometimes, you need to get a check done to see what's going on in there... it really MIGHT be something going on. Here's to hoping that's your problem.

[Ilpirata]

Thanks Jenn!

[Zer]

Makes me want to get myself tested - somewhere that will do the tests to see what's WHAT (good, bad, indifferent) in all the areas that might affect function of thyroid, adrenals, other influential organs. Got to find a doctor. Maybe the naturopathic doctor is right, that opening my lymph ducts(?) will release toxins and fluid to flush out a system that is knotted or blocked and causing me pain and inflammation - and possibly slowing weight loss too. I'll be eager to hear how others are getting info from labwork, especially tests that my HMO is not likely to initiate. With a list of pertinent tests, I guess I can use a private lab.

AGHHH! I wish I had just one competent MD to rely on! Just one!

390.2 at 3pm - down 2.6# from a week ago - I so hope this bodes well for my official Saturday morn weigh day. Dare I hope that I'll see 389#? Let's HOPE!

Took delivery today of quiches from my personal chef, that are in the freezer right beside the salmon and meatballs from 2wks ago that I think are too much food for my aching back/gut to handle. I am noshing on liverwurst and broccoli sprouts - light eats - with occasional tuna or sardines in olive oil.

Feeling slightly better, still taking ibuprofen, once or twice a day, but the ND says she has something that will work well to reduce inflammation/pain.

More to come, I'm sure. Meanwhile, I'm listening to labwork results and am keen to find out what my own blood might reveal.

[Ilpirata]

390.2 at 3pm - down 2.6# from a week ago - I so hope this bodes well for my official Saturday morn weigh day. Dare I hope that I'll see 389#? Let's HOPE!

YOU CAN DO IT!!!


As far as my tests, I have a super high deductible health plan. I got the info on the ones that I need here on LCF. Then fortunately my mom works for a DR. and he filled out the lab slip for me. I paid out of pocket but got a great deal from the lab that is in the same office as my mom. $170 total for a BATTERY of tests.

If they come back hinky I have the name of a supposedly wonderful thyroid dr. in my town and will get the DR my mom works for to refer me to her. It will come out of pocket too so I won't be able to go until I get paid on the fifteenth. Should have the results before then though!

I don't have all the symptoms of hypO... just the excruciatingly slow weight loss and also hair loss I have suffered during this process... we'll see. Even if its just to eliminate the possibility I am happy I did it!

[i.am.jenn]

Zer - my bloodwork was nothing special. Just the annual stuff that my doctor requires, CBC, Cholesterol Screen, Fasting Blood Sugar and a few others (don't know the names off hand).

Will your HMO cover a holistic doctor? A friend was studying to become one, so she explained it to me as that they work along the lines you are thinking... don't treat the symptoms, find out what's causing them and treat THOSE.

For Example (the one she gave me): You go to the doc with Strep throat. So yes, treat the bacterial infection, but also, why is the immune system not fighting the Strep throat on it's own?

In Texas they are D.O. (osteopathic physician).

HTH

[kiwikid]

Hi SlimMoeDee,

You asked about losing weight when eating to your BMR. Yes I have lost pretty steadily except for one week stall. I joined the thread in mid august and have lost about 10lbs since then. I tend to average .5-1.5lbs a week, so while not large losses they are steady. The three weeks before I started to eat my BMR I was stalled and was eating around 400 cal too low.

I think for me more motivating than the weight loss has ben the ability to eat a more varied diet, even at induction carb levels, and I have found that my macros are more stable at around 65% fat and 4 % carbs.

[Ilpirata]

I think for me more motivating than the weight loss has ben the ability to eat a more varied diet, even at induction carb levels, and I have found that my macros are more stable at around 65% fat and 4 % carbs.

I totally agree with this.
For me the thought is that I'm learning to eat properly FOR LIFE. If our eating patterns are healthy and nutritious on our way down the weight scale they will be just that much easier to maintain. Weight loss through crash or severe diets has never been maintainable for me personally or anyone else I know.

[Ilpirata]

208.5 AGAIN this morning.
Hoping for the results of the thyroid test today.
I've started adding some cheese back in since it doesn't seem to be the culprit in my stall.

Gearing up and planning to increase my daily carb intake to 35-40 for about a week or so. Just checking out some slightly higher carb options.

[Zer]

I'm with you, Ilpirata, that this LC gig is about learning to eat for health - more than the benefits of losing weight, although that's one way of measuring my LC success. The scale offers me data on how well I am matching my body's needs for protein, fat and carbs. The scale is a tool - not my master/mistress. Right?