Old Timers and Newbies!

[Lost and Found]

By the way...... "Happy Valentine's Day to Everyone!!!!!"

[Ailuros]

Do try to get some more sleep, L&F - though it's nice to have some company here in the morning . I'm just about to make some coffee, but I'd better not offer to share, it would keep you awake. Maybe yours should be a decaff?

[Lost and Found]

Originally Posted by Ailuros

Do try to get some more sleep, L&F - though it's nice to have some company here in the morning . I'm just about to make some coffee, but I'd better not offer to share, it would keep you awake. Maybe yours should be a decaff?

Good morning Ailuros!!!!

Yes...I don't know why...I woke-up, and couldn't get back to sleep. At this time in the morning, I can't "do" anything anyways, as it would wake someone up!!!!

I wish that I liked coffee.....

[Lost and Found]

I suppose that I should try to sleep some more...might give me more energy for all that needs done today.

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by jeanran

Tooter, this is phenomenal and I want to save it. You said it soooo well. It sounds like you grew up the same way I did but what surprises me is that it was a different generation. Your mother was ahead of her time by being stuck in the 50's. Does that make any sense?

I hope someone else can take away at least half of what I got from this post.

My Brother is 12 years older then I am and my sister is 8 years older. I was (as my Father said) a "Happy" Surprise! So, you are old enough to be my "Sister".

I think things started changing with the way America ate and "Bought" food in the early 70's. It was about that time that people (including my family) started buying soda all the time, buying poptarts and Convenient foods. It's also about this time that people started eating out more. Instead of a treat, it became a habit.

When I was little, you hardly ever saw an obese person and hardly ever an obese child. That has REALLY changed today.

People also don't cook like they used to. Hardly anyone knows how to cook from scratch anymore. No one knows how to make foods "Strech" anymore (at least in a healthy way). You would cook a Turkey or Chicken and make a dinner out of it. Left overs would be used for Chicken/turkey salad and also making a soup. One chicken would make many meals for the week (which would be rotated). A Beef Roast? That would make alot of meals. First the Roast dinner, Hot roast beef sandwiches and then turned into Vegetable beef soup. A Ham? Ham Dinner, then Ham Salad and then Ham and Bean soup.

If we REALLY think about it, the way we eat, buy and cook has drastically changed in a pretty short time.

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by jeanran

Tooter, even living in a Marine city I don't find people that friendly toward Marines, but then again, I am on the 'left coast.' I do, however, find a bond with all that know of my involvement and have been/or are military or family.

It must be like you said, a brotherhood, as far too many people don't get it. I just thank God every day that we have such outstanding young people in the military that are willing to give up their freedom for mine.

Thanks for sharing your history and feelings, we are definitely on the same track.

Amen.

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Tooter,

Your post was very well written. I guess that I am just amazed that I felt that way...all of time while...eating alot of carbs...and didn't even realize it. Now, that I have cut the carbs out, I can see the side effects of the carbs on other people...my Dad in particular. He's diabetic, and is a carb addict. He has his eating down to a science. He doesn't eat until he gets his work done first. He says that if he ate first...he'd never get his things done...because he gets tired. He's moody, and rude...but I don't excuse his behavior on his sugar levels...like so many others do.

Also, I hope that you noticed when I posted the post that you responded on, that I said, " 'Normal' people should be able to eat these things on occassion...without any problems." What I meant by this? I was wondering if my system is not normal? Am I less tolerant to carbs than many? Am I making it even less tolerant? I guess that I just can not beleive that I walked around on a daily basis with all of the yucky side effects, and thought that it was normal. Also, when I said, "problems," I wasn't just referring to weight gain. I was, also, referring to the other symptoms.

Your post made a lot of sense...sorry that you took my questions wrong. I was just wondering if there was something wrong with me.

I still think it's just because we are more aware of all of the side effects of higher in carb foods. No, we didn't notice all the side effects when we were eating that way, because they were our "Norm".

BUT...One of the points I was trying to make, was that those side effects can Slowly come back without us noticing them. At first we will have some signs (like me feeling tired yesterday) If we ignore those and push forward with eating higher in carb foods...We then don't seem to notice those side effects because SLOWLY we go back to our old "Norm" in how we were feeling. Did that make any sense? If there is anything I can truly share with you all as a "truth"...This is one of them. The warning signs of symptoms will disappear (or is it that we just can't notice them) as we do the carb creep. Then it's like one day you wake up and your weight is out of control and you have all the other side effects of eating High carb that "seem" to have gone "full blown" over night. If you look back, it didn't happen over night...it happened slowly and you just desensitised yourself from it. It's Shocking how easy this is to do.

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by *Pear*

Here's my result:

Pear, you are really GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is really pretty!

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Well...it's Thursday already!!!!!

Today, the youngest has only a 1/2 day of school. The goal is to have "ALL" belongings from the attic and basement put in the garage. Then, when I get the truck tomorrow, we can just load it...instead of going around and carrying things from everywhere. There is, also, laundry to get done, as I didn't want to take a bunch of dirty stuff with us.

I couldn't sleep. That's why I'm up at 2:45 am!!!!! I am going to try and get a little more sleep.

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

By the way...... "Happy Valentine's Day to Everyone!!!!!"

Happy Valentine's Day, My little TURD!!!!

[Ailuros]

Originally Posted by Tooter

My Brother is 12 years older then I am and my sister is 8 years older. I was (as my Father said) a "Happy" Surprise! So, you are old enough to be my "Sister".

I think things started changing with the way America ate and "Bought" food in the early 70's. It was about that time that people (including my family) started buying soda all the time, buying poptarts and Convenient foods. It's also about this time that people started eating out more. Instead of a treat, it became a habit.

When I was little, you hardly ever saw an obese person and hardly ever an obese child. That has REALLY changed today.

People also don't cook like they used to. Hardly anyone knows how to cook from scratch anymore. No one knows how to make foods "Strech" anymore (at least in a healthy way). You would cook a Turkey or Chicken and make a dinner out of it. Left overs would be used for Chicken/turkey salad and also making a soup. One chicken would make many meals for the week (which would be rotated). A Beef Roast? That would make alot of meals. First the Roast dinner, Hot roast beef sandwiches and then turned into Vegetable beef soup. A Ham? Ham Dinner, then Ham Salad and then Ham and Bean soup.

If we REALLY think about it, the way we eat, buy and cook has drastically changed in a pretty short time.

We've seen the same sort of changes. When I was a child, my mother used to buy one bottle of pop at the weekend (about 2 pints - much smaller than modern bottles). When it was gone, that was it until the next week. Only children drank the cold, sweet drinks - grown ups drank tea (hot, with milk). These days she has a fridge full of huge bottles of pepsi and coke for her grandchildren - who are about 20.

We rarely ate out. We'd go to a restaurant for a special occasion, and buy fish and chips once in a while. And occasionally we'd have a "convenience food" meal, but most things were homemade. We didn't have the "one starch" rule that you described, but the meals were generally meat, potato & veg. Often there'd be a pudding of some kind, because my father likes them, but my mother, my brother and I generally didn't bother to have any.

People did seem to get a bit heavier, especially around the middle, as they got to middle age and beyond, but they didn't seem to get huge, and they didn't necessarily expect to stay exactly the same size. Having said that, my mother's friends often seemed to be dieting - and when they dieted, they gave up bread and potatoes. I can remember being a young teen and lecturing my mother on the new nutritional discovery that it wasn't the potatoes that were fattening, but the butter you put on them . Luckily my mother never needed to diet, and in any case she probably knew better than to take any notice of a teenager who happened to know everything .

[Ailuros]

Originally Posted by Tooter

I still think it's just because we are more aware of all of the side effects of higher in carb foods. No, we didn't notice all the side effects when we were eating that way, because they were our "Norm".

BUT...One of the points I was trying to make, was that those side effects can Slowly come back without us noticing them. At first we will have some signs (like me feeling tired yesterday) If we ignore those and push forward with eating higher in carb foods...We then don't seem to notice those side effects because SLOWLY we go back to our old "Norm" in how we were feeling. Did that make any sense? If there is anything I can truly share with you all as a "truth"...This is one of them. The warning signs of symptoms will disappear (or is it that we just can't notice them) as we do the carb creep. Then it's like one day you wake up and your weight is out of control and you have all the other side effects of eating High carb that "seem" to have gone "full blown" over night. If you look back, it didn't happen over night...it happened slowly and you just desensitised yourself from it. It's Shocking how easy this is to do.

I completely agree. In many ways it's simpler to just completely rule things out rather than to allow them "occasionally" or in "limited quantities" but then you're restricting yourself unnecessarily. I like to keep things more flexible, but you do have to watch for the carb creep - or the symptom creep .

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by Ailuros

We've seen the same sort of changes. When I was a child, my mother used to buy one bottle of pop at the weekend (about 2 pints - much smaller than modern bottles). When it was gone, that was it until the next week. Only children drank the cold, sweet drinks - grown ups drank tea (hot, with milk). These days she has a fridge full of huge bottles of pepsi and coke for her grandchildren - who are about 20.

We rarely ate out. We'd go to a restaurant for a special occasion, and buy fish and chips once in a while. And occasionally we'd have a "convenience food" meal, but most things were homemade. We didn't have the "one starch" rule that you described, but the meals were generally meat, potato & veg. Often there'd be a pudding of some kind, because my father likes them, but my mother, my brother and I generally didn't bother to have any.

People did seem to get a bit heavier, especially around the middle, as they got to middle age and beyond, but they didn't seem to get huge, and they didn't necessarily expect to stay exactly the same size. Having said that, my mother's friends often seemed to be dieting - and when they dieted, they gave up bread and potatoes. I can remember being a young teen and lecturing my mother on the new nutritional discovery that it wasn't the potatoes that were fattening, but the butter you put on them . Luckily my mother never needed to diet, and in any case she probably knew better than to take any notice of a teenager who happened to know everything .

It sure sounds like your family ate like mine. Maybe your Mom didn't have the One starch "rule" like mine did (at the time) but it's pretty much how your Mom cooked and fed you.

Not only is it weird how drastically our eating has changed (in that short time) but it's also weird how much common knowledge and instincts we have lost.

From doing alot of low carb reading (and of the history of it) Women KNEW to lose weight they had to limit the starch. It was Common knowledge. Actually it was knowledge they took for granted. To lose a few pounds they would get rid of the bread and potatoes. Sweets weren't really a problem, because you didn't have them as often.

Then came the LOW FAT agenda (early 70's) It took a few years of brain washing, but they did a fantastic job. No longer was it the bread and potatoes and sugar that was making as fat...It was the FAT that was making us fat. Foods and advertisments were changed. Higher Starch, Lots of Sugar added and cutting the fat. THAT was going to Make us Healthy!!!!



Well, how's that working for us?

They did their job really well and we bought it "hook line and sinker". Now people are so shocked when they find out about "Low Carb" and that it's the starch/sugar that makes us fat. Something that 30 years ago, everyone seem to just "Know" but is now forgotten.

It's kinda scarey too. Like we were all dumb sheep led to the slaughterhouse.

That's why I think it's so important for all of us to go back and think about how we used to eat when we were little.

Generations? What about the poor kids who were born in the late 70's and 80's? They have no clue as to how we used to eat, because they always ate like this since they were born.

[Tooter]

Ailuros, our conversation has brought back alot of memories for me. I remember being a little girl and Saturday My Dad would take me with him to the store. I got to pick one bottle/can of soda and one "treat". Now, that treat could be a small (one serving size) of chips or Gum/candy bar.

I remember being so excited for Saturday. We would then save our "Treats" for when we watched our special shows on Saturday night. Can you imagine this now? Who eats just ONE serving size of chips? Or just ONE candy bar a week? (and remember I had to Choose if it would be the chips or the candy).

Do you also remember TV dinners? Man, it was so exciting when Mom would buy one for us. Those were also a treat. Every meal was at the dinner table back then (strange concept in today's world) and the only time you couldn't eat at the table and could eat in front of the TV was with a "TV Dinner". To be honest, I think we would only get them 2 to 3 times a year? We only got them for "Special" times. Like if Mom and Dad went out for dinner (by themselves) and my Sister would baby sit me.

See how much our eating, buying and other food habits have changed?

[Tooter]

Maybe part of our "Balance" comes from our past.

Click, Jean and Ailuros...You have got me THINKING (a Dangerous thing).

I'm talking about the Balance at goal. IN maintaining.


Maybe it's just being simlar to how we ate as kids.

Maybe we should all "chew" on that for awhile. lol

[Ailuros]

We (my brother and I) used to be given 6d (that's 2.5p of "new money") on Saturday to buy sweets. It was enough to buy one chocolate bar, like a milky way, or a few smaller toffees.

We always ate at the table, too - in fact we still do that, and so do my parents, except occasionally. Sunday evening, when they've had a big lunch, they might just have a sandwich in front of the TV, but most meals are at the table. My husband and I almost always eat our meals together at the table - except for breakfast. The thing is that when we were children that was just the way everybody did it. You wouldn't have thought of doing anything different, but now you have to make an effort, and it's seen as something unusual.

My husband doesn't want to know about nutritional studies and biochemistry. He only wants to eat food that's traditional. Not just the meat and veg we grew up with - he'll eat foreign food perfectly happily, but he takes the view that all the scientists can't agree on what's good and healthy to eat, and there's limited info on prehistoric diets, so the best thing is to stick with food that people have lived on for generations. It's a nice idea, but I think it still needs a lot of thought to implement, because we have so much more food available now, and we have "feast day" food available every day and all year round.

I have to go out for the afternoon. Catch up with you all later .

[Lost and Found]

Maybe, that is why I have a hard time with fat.

The "times" that you are speaking of...when you were children...wasn't like that for me. I got "treats" alot more often than 1x/week, we always had bread...in addition to our supper...which always had a potato...sometimes corn too. We ate at the table, but we didn't eat in the fashion that you speak of. If we had spaghetti or lasagna, we, also, had bread with a salad.

I guess that I grew-up (most of the time) with the media...saying that noodles, bread, potatos, and rice are good for you. It's the stuff that you put on them that is so bad for you.

So, this is a new way of "thinking" for me. That's why when I refer to us being "abnormal"...it's because...although it is my choice to follow my woe...it is not "normal" in comparism to the rest of today's society. We're like outcasts in a way...to me anyways. I have to pretend that I have diabetes in restaurants...search high and low for ingrdients in stores, etc...

I'm not downing our woe. I am just saying that we are "different". I, also, feel that we can eat some carbs...once we have worked the program. We did, even in the times that you are speaking of...just not an over abundance. To me, that's the trick...not going over board, as the "creeping" thing would be real easy to do....because that's the time we are living in...an overabundance.

[Lost and Found]

Well, I'll check back in later.

As you all know, I have way more things to accomplish today than is even possible for me to do. Unless, of course, you all would like to come and help?

[Tooter]

YES, LF, this is what I am trying to Show you. You GET IT!

I'll go even farther in how things have changed, or the "Norm" has changed.

Not only do we (the norm of today) eat more then One serving of starch per meal, but we eat larger portions and way more calories. Now, combine that with what you have learned about low carb. Starch Sugar will cause you to feel hungry and not satisfied. Remember the old joke about Chinese Meals? They fill you up, bloat ya, and a half an hour later you are starving? That's because we eat a TON of rice with it (most true chinese people DON'T they eat a small serving of the rice and ALOT of veggies). And the Sauces in the Chinese foods we eat has a ton of sugar. So, you have taken in all those starches, spiked your insulin and half an hour later you are starving (your bodies reaction to eating too much starch).

Now, Lets go back to how "I" used to eat as a kid.

Breakfast: Scrambled eggs and one slice of toast
Slice of peanut butter toast and a glass of milk
One serving size of cereal with milk (Most people eat 2 to 3 servings today)


The Advertisment for a "healthy breakfast", that started in the 70's was for a bowl of cereal (and the bowl was LARGE, way bigger then the serving size on the box) A Large glass of OJ and 2 slices of toast!

LOOK at how the servings in everything Changed!!!! When I was little, if you had OJ, it was a small glass to go with breakfast (usually the big breakfast on Sunday) Your glass of milk was bigger.

Do you see how calories, Carbs, and servings sizes changed? And we then needed them to get bigger because with all those Carbs we were starving a little while after we ate.

Hamburgers? We used to eat them without the bun and with a veggie and/or salad. It changed to going out to eat to eat them. You ate them on a bun packed with sugar and starch (notice how sweet the buns are at Mcdonalds) and then we were trained that we had to eat french fries with them.

YES, we were TRAINED to eat the French fries and get the large Coke. When people first started to go to Mcdonalds they would get a hamburger (and it was the small one that is now in the happy meals) no french fries, and usually adults drank coffee with it. A kid? Might get a soda, but more likely milk. IF you did happen to get french fries, it was the orignal fries which were the small ones, but that was something you didn't do all the time.

Then came the BIGGER and BETTER Sandwiches (Think BIG MACK) With Extra Bread, meat etc.. Then came the "Happy Meal". A Cute little bag/box with the hambuger, fries, drink and a toy. Kids were then taught to eat the fries because they wanted that TOY!


The Original hambuger at McDonalds is the hambuger that is now considered the "Kids" burger. How many teens and adults do you see order them? NOT TOO MANY! How many people eat the small fries (which were the original size fries)? NOT TOO MANY!!!! Everyone goes for LARGE.

Do you see how this all changed?

It's almost like they KNEW if they could get us to eat it, we would then crave more, buy bigger and more.

It's scarey.

Now, no one has a clue how to eat or lose weight. It's all or nothing. It's starving yourself (like kimkins) or totally avoiding anything.

Maybe we just need to look at our past?



LF, when I was about 10 years old, is when things really started to change and at a fast pace!!!

My Mother? She is now a junk food, sugar/starch junkie. This is the same woman who used to say..."Only ONE starch per meal".

[hippiegirl]

HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY!!!!!

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by hippiegirl

HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY!!!!!

The Same back at ya!!