Why the fascination with Kimmer? #17

[DonnaD]

I'm trying to catch up with all the posts from last nite, It's a lot of reading and unfortunately I have to go to work. But since I've been "banned" from the kk site I did have some time.

Dee, Please be ok...thinking about you.

I'm not here to bash Heidi, not worth my time. I will hopefully be able to keep contact with some wonderful friends I made. It was really the only reason I had for being there. I also am embracing the future with new friends here. I always found LCF an open forum. You know it's that "freedom of speech" comment that got me booted. I find all the opinions and outlooks, agreements and disagreements refreshing. It's honest.

Not sorry that I'm no longer a "stepford dieter"

Now that I know what DANDR is, I guess it's time to get the book back out..

Have a great day all, gotta go to work...

[Tooter]

Carly, you made perfect sense! That was a Very good post and very enlightening. Thank you.

[Lookin'4loss]

Originally Posted by anani

Most of you probably don't remember me...I was banned from KK in July '07. I posted here quite a bit in the first few months. I have been checking in occasionally and lurking to get updated.

For the most part, I have been really impressed with the hard work everyone has done to get Kimkins shut down. But, I have seen things here occasionally that have really disturbed me. I do believe that most here are truly caring people who want to do good and help. But I have seen some vicious, incredibly insensitive and unwarranted behaviour on the part of certain participants of this thread at times. I know that getting Kimkins shut down is an important mission, but how/when did it ever become more important than the feelings of those coming here looking for answers or help?

What I have witnessed here in the last few days in regards to Dee has really shocked me. And before anyone jumps in with the defense.."she came in with guns blazing" ...yeah maybe..whatever. Many came to this thread that way. I came here to do just that myself, back in July. But, I have never seen anyone explain/defend herself more intelligently or eloquently and just when it looks like the dust is settling and she is relaxing and feeling a bit safe and finally/possibly accepted here...WHAMMO, someone has to start demanding answers again and then questioning why she is getting angry. Good Lord in Heaven!!! I think anger was the primary feeling we all experienced in the first days. Holy crap..I was spewing with pure unadulterated fury...to the point I got a warning letter from the mods and my post removed. We were all RAW...some worse than others. I know sock puppets and moles have infiltrated this thread more than once and everyone is on their guard..but Holy Hannah! This woman is hurting really badly right now...and what no one seems to remember is that everyone has "their own" story and everyone is an individual in how they deal with their pain. I personally thought Dee explained herself thoroughly.
I don't know..it seems to me that some have lost perspective here. Sadly, I would say that the events and actions of the last couple of days have quite possibly undone much of the good you have all worked so hard to accomplish. Dee started something big in motion at KK...many were probably looking this way and thinking of letting go of KK, but I'm sure this is just about the last place any of them would dare venture now..and worst of all...Heidi is probably having a celebratory toast and chuckle to herself. As if it wasn't bad enough...to post a pseudo-psychoanalysis..in my mind was the epitome of disrespect ..I'm sorry but that's how I see it. No one here knows anything about who Dee is or what her story is.
I am so incredibly sad right now...that this is what it's all come to. Everyone needs to be getting down on their knees right now and praying for Dee. I know that's what I am going to be doing. And while I'm at it, I'm going to pray that Hedi Diaz is shut down for good very very soon.
Some really worthwhile things have happened here, but sadly I believe this thread has outlived it's usefulness. It certainly has for me. And I'm more sorry than you can imagine to say that.

Thank you so much for putting into words the way I see it too. All the post were just so useless. I won't ever understand the "gang" mentality. All the "atta girls" really didn't help either. The fact that you all go back and see nothing wrong with what you posted is just unbelivable. You have no problem see everything wrong with Dee's post. Your right about other KK'ers watching, I'm on of them and from what I've seen here I don't feel very safe or welcomed.

[v0xhumana]

Originally Posted by Lookin'4loss

In less than a month this women has had to wool pull, no yanked off her eyes and still she is browbeat. All she is asking for is some breathing room, let her breath so she can take it all in and make the decission that is right for her. She has done the right thing so far, why can't you let her feel her way without stomping on her????

And why can't I ask some very valid questions without feeling stomped on by a herd that seems to come out of the woodwork?



Things just weren't adding up for me. Sorry. Now I feel like I've been run over by a Mac truck.

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by gran to angels

I want to heal and I want to help others heal but most of all….I want to help close that site so no one else suffers.

Gran, that's been my goal since I asked for a refund and she denied me way back last summer. Has it been that long? It only seems like yesterday!

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by DEEDLYNN

Thanks slick...but tomorrow is not going to be better. The next day is not going to be better. Next week is not going be better. The only way that I'd be better right now...quite frankly...is DEAD.

I know I am late, but I just wanted to tell you that tomorrow is going to better and the next day even better than that one if you let it be.

I have read your posts and admire your grit and your personality. There is so much more to you than throwing in the towel or letting abrasive discussions get you down.

You have a thicker skin than that, I can tell. Come back and fight, girl, you make a good warrior.

[This time]

Hi Gran Amyb has said so many wonderful things about you, that the one's who never heard of you, now feel like your part of the family I'm so happy that the worst has past for you Now your part of the family, like it or not Linda

[v0xhumana]

I honestly didn't think I was being abrasive. Will someone please specifically point out where I've been abrasive?

Thanks!

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by anani

Most of you probably don't remember me...I was banned from KK in July '07. I posted here quite a bit in the first few months. I have been checking in occasionally and lurking to get updated.

For the most part, I have been really impressed with the hard work everyone has done to get Kimkins shut down. But, I have seen things here occasionally that have really disturbed me. I do believe that most here are truly caring people who want to do good and help. But I have seen some vicious, incredibly insensitive and unwarranted behaviour on the part of certain participants of this thread at times. I know that getting Kimkins shut down is an important mission, but how/when did it ever become more important than the feelings of those coming here looking for answers or help?

What I have witnessed here in the last few days in regards to Dee has really shocked me. And before anyone jumps in with the defense.."she came in with guns blazing" ...yeah maybe..whatever. Many came to this thread that way. I came here to do just that myself, back in July. But, I have never seen anyone explain/defend herself more intelligently or eloquently and just when it looks like the dust is settling and she is relaxing and feeling a bit safe and finally/possibly accepted here...WHAMMO, someone has to start demanding answers again and then questioning why she is getting angry. Good Lord in Heaven!!! I think anger was the primary feeling we all experienced in the first days. Holy crap..I was spewing with pure unadulterated fury...to the point I got a warning letter from the mods and my post removed. We were all RAW...some worse than others. I know sock puppets and moles have infiltrated this thread more than once and everyone is on their guard..but Holy Hannah! This woman is hurting really badly right now...and what no one seems to remember is that everyone has "their own" story and everyone is an individual in how they deal with their pain. I personally thought Dee explained herself thoroughly.
I don't know..it seems to me that some have lost perspective here. Sadly, I would say that the events and actions of the last couple of days have quite possibly undone much of the good you have all worked so hard to accomplish. Dee started something big in motion at KK...many were probably looking this way and thinking of letting go of KK, but I'm sure this is just about the last place any of them would dare venture now..and worst of all...Heidi is probably having a celebratory toast and chuckle to herself. As if it wasn't bad enough...to post a pseudo-psychoanalysis..in my mind was the epitome of disrespect ..I'm sorry but that's how I see it. No one here knows anything about who Dee is or what her story is.
I am so incredibly sad right now...that this is what it's all come to. Everyone needs to be getting down on their knees right now and praying for Dee. I know that's what I am going to be doing. And while I'm at it, I'm going to pray that Hedi Diaz is shut down for good very very soon.
Some really worthwhile things have happened here, but sadly I believe this thread has outlived it's usefulness. It certainly has for me. And I'm more sorry than you can imagine to say that.

Hi, Anani. A Great post and bares repeating.

[This time]

Hey Nessa, how is your mother

[Lookin'4loss]

Originally Posted by v0xhumana

You know, I tried to reproduce this on Google, and the only thing I can come up with are responses from you, AFTER you came in here and initially attacked us.

You gotta admit that looks a little fishy.



This seems to be a recurring theme for you, almost like a mantra of sorts.

It comes across like you think she is lying. You really don't see it that way?

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by This time

Hey Nessa, how is your mother

She is very good! She's up and planning a bbq for Memorial Day weekend, so that's a lot of progress!

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by jeanessa

She is very good! She's up and planning a bbq for Memorial Day weekend, so that's a lot of progress!

[This time]

Originally Posted by jeanessa

She is very good! She's up and planning a bbq for Memorial Day weekend, so that's a lot of progress!

[jeanessa]

One day is good, the next is bad, it fluctuates. I am just taking it a day at a time right now. Man, have I been stressed!

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by Lookin'4loss

It comes across like you think she is lying. You really don't see it that way?

It came across to me this way, as well. I'm pretty sure that this is how DEEDLYNN saw it, too.

[Madam De Leon]

Originally Posted by Zbunny

For what it's worth, I can understand why it might take some time for Dee and Carly et al to digest all of this. I think that we would all love for you to instantly "see the light" and denounce illkins ASAP, but as a realist, I realize that it may take a bit for you to absorb everything and come to your own conclusions.

You were well ensconced within the kimpound for awhile; I think it might take awhile to loosen all of your ties to it. AmyB is a perfect example, if I may point it out. Amy is doing well, making strides, but even she admits that she struggles sometimes.

I think that everyone pushing you has the best of intentions, and they are hoping that you can just jump to what we all see is the only logical conclusion (it's a deadly diet and no one should do it), but that doesn't discount that it may, indeed, take a bit of time for each of you to come to that same realization. We've had lots of time to do research -- I know that VLCDs kill (one's metabolism at the very least -- but they can actually kill), but I didn't know that 6 months ago.

So to conclude...I love everybody here!

This is from pages ago, but I have to say that I agree with it, and with what some others have said along the same lines (OYB - I agree with what you had to say too)

Dee may have come in here "with guns a-blazing", but it would appear to me that right now she just needs some time to research what it is that makes for a truly healthy diet, before she can change her stance. It took her quite a bit of research on her own to decide that Heidi was a complete fraud, and still lying. But that's because Dee appears to be the kind of person who is not easily led - she needs to delve into the information on her own, absorb it, and come to her own conclusions.

I believe it's going to take her a while, quite frankly - She's trying to do this while answering constant questions and emails - and honestly, some of the questions, while not necessarily being full-on attacks, are certainly nit-picky and pushy, and if I was being bombarded with the kind of questions she's had thrown at her every time I logged on here, I'd feel like I was being cross examined on the witness stand, with digging into every phrase or nuance of what I'd previously said, trying to trip me up at every turn.

Really now, did any former KKers who left of their own volition, based only on discovering the totality of the fraud over there, at that exact moment have the sky open up to them with complete knowledge and understanding of what's true and what's not true as far as nutrition?

If we go by what the mainstream information says (WW, USDA, Jenny Craig, etc) Dee isn't eating a nutritionally deficient diet right now, because those programs always base their recommendations on semi-starvation calorie levels. 1200 calories (more or less), that's what they want you to eat, and it generally doesn't seem to matter to them whether you're 120 lbs trying to get down to 115, or 450 pounds trying to get down to 200, for ages they've stuck you on 1200 cals to lose weight, maybe more if you're a very active male. But women? Perish the thought! We were supposed to eat like birds, it was drummed into us that it was because we were scarfing down massive amounts of food, primarily that dastardly FAT that we were fat to begin with. My sincere hope is that Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories will start to turn that line of thought around.

Dee is in about the same age range as I am, so she also probably noticed the same things about dieting as I did while I was growing up - no one, and I mean absolutely no one - not doctors, not dietitians and nutritionists, not diet articles in magazines, not OTC diet aids (Remember Ayds?) - none of the ever talked about the importance of getting all your micro-nutrients while dieting. There was no talk about BMR, or making sure that you didn't go into starvation mode and ruin your metabolism, destroy your thyroid or gall bladder. In fact, when I had my gall bladder out several years ago, it was still typical that "FFF" (Fat, Forty, and Female) was the generally accepted profile of a gall bladder patient. Gall bladder problems were blamed on being fat, period. No talk at all of trying to lose weight on low calorie (low fat) diets repeatedly for decades as being the real culprit behind gall bladder problems, it was our gluttony to blame, particularly how much fat we consumed, since "everyone knows" you are what you eat, and eating fat makes you fat.

The standard weight loss diet was actually only 1000 calories back in the 50's and 60's too, not even the 1200 they push now. Talk about BMR, daily calorie needs to maintain, and especially talk of micronutrients is all very new to me - speaking in general terms - I heard the 1000 calorie stuff for about half my life, and then 1200 until just the last year or so - at my age that's a lot of reinforcement to unlearn.

I now know that KK's very low calorie/fat intake is dangerous, but you have to admit that a lot of what she says to do for her diet is supported by conventional dieting "wisdom" over the decades: Eat less to lose weight, a lot less than what you're used to. Eat low fat/fat free foods to lose weight... basically that you need to starve yourself to lose weight, the nutritional profile isn't important, and if you're still not losing weight, then you're obviously still eating too much.

If I was just coming out of a diet program that had been the one to finally start to work for me (even if I didn't follow it to the letter), I wouldn't be so fast to bash it either. I'd have to do my research too, before deciding that it was dangerous.

So basically what I'm saying here is - please back off of Dee for a bit, and let her find out the information on her own. She's not easily swayed - which is a good thing! She does her own research and comes to her own conclusions. So far her research says KK works - it worked for her - she's working on finding out whether or not the low calories/low fat and almost exclusively protein component that makes it work is as dangerous as we've been telling her. She's a smart woman though - she'll figure it out.


Dee - you said you're reading Atkins. I wish I could find the exact quote for you, but please notice that at some point in the book he says not to ever attempt to combine low fat and low carb, because it's dangerous. I wish he'd gone into detail about why it's dangerous, but he didn't. Nevertheless, I wanted to make sure you'd be on the lookout for that little bit of information, as you read the book.

[KristenT]

I think if Dee needs some space to take everything in, let her have some space. She's come in and put everything out there already, she should not have to keep answering the same things over and over.


She doesn't have to *prove* anything to anyone here. She's done with KK and now she's trying to get back in control. She's been lied to and manipulated just like a lot of others here, now she has to deal with it in her own way.


If it ends up she's full of BS, well then so be it. I don't feel that she is, but would it personally cause anyone here harm if she is? Nope.

Dee. I really hope you are feeling better today, sometimes it can be hard to see, but there's so many people on here that want to help and support you when you need it. Take Care.

[Tooter]

Originally Posted by KristenT

I think if Dee needs some space to take everything in, let her have some space. She's come in and put everything out there already, she should not have to keep answering the same things over and over.


She doesn't have to *prove* anything to anyone here. She's done with KK and now she's trying to get back in control. She's been lied to and manipulated just like a lot of others here, now she has to deal with it in her own way.


If it ends up she's full of BS, well then so be it. I don't feel that she is, but would it personally cause anyone here harm if she is? Nope.

Dee. I really hope you are feeling better today, sometimes it can be hard to see, but there's so many people on here that want to help and support you when you need it. Take Care.

ITA

[Lookin'4loss]

Thank you Madam De Leon!

One thing that I think about in regards to Dee, how many of you have ever wieghed over 340 lbs? This alone makes me have a special place in my heart for Dee. Having felt as helpless as her and feeling like I've finally got a eating plan that works for me. Having my Dr.'s full approval! (He loves the diet and how I'm really eating. I have been honest with him!!!) The brain is a funny thing, how it works and what it allows us to see and feel. Some times things don't click until time has passed. To lose over 100 lbs and then have the rug pulled out from under you??? It must feel like you been cheated on by your S/O. That's how I would feel.

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by Lookin'4loss

Thank you Madam De Leon!

One thing that I think about in regards to Dee, how many of you have ever wieghed over 340 lbs? This alone makes me have a special place in my heart for Dee. Having felt as helpless as her and feeling like I've finally got a eating plan that works for me. Having my Dr.'s full approval! (He loves the diet and how I'm really eating. I have been honest with him!!!) The brain is a funny thing, how it works and what it allows us to see and feel. Some times things don't click until time has passed. To lose over 100 lbs and then have the rug pulled out from under you??? It must feel like you been cheated on by your S/O. That's how I would feel.

Great way to put it. I can't imagine how she feels.

[Tooter]

I think everyone needs to ask themselves, just what their "Goals" are with this "So called" fight. For the fascination thread and for the "Ducks".

There seems to be a lot of fighting for the sake of fighting, that has nothing to do with the "Goals". It seems to be more about how important the "Ducks" are and has nothing to do with Heidi, Kimkins and the Peeps caught in the middle. This is truly sad. Isn't that the very thing we all hated about Heidi?



Sounds like a lot of people are Battle weary, shooting at anything that moves.

That's a lot scarier then facing the enemy. At least with the enemy, you know what to expect.






Dee, take your time. Baby steps. I am sorry for the "Friendly Fire" that isn't so friendly.

[amadeus4313]

As I said in a previous post, I don't post here often. Mostly because I very rarely get an answer to my posts. This thread sometimes moves so fast that unless you are one of the regulars your posts get lost pretty easily.

I read this thread every day. I really think Dee has been unfairly singled out for attack. This may not be the intention, but as someone who is viewing the events from the outside as it were, it really does look like attack. Dee has answered honestly that she cannot slam kimkins right now. She could have said whatever she was expected to say. But it seems to me that she is trying to be as honest as she can.

I am not taking sides here. I am as angry as anyone at the fraud that Heidi has perpetrated. I was one who questioned her right to write a book based on someone else's research. But, it really does seem to me that anger at Heidi is being directed at Dee.

I'm sorry if this is not a popular point of view, but it is the vibe I am getting from the turn this thread has taken. Dee is not our enemy. She's trying to find her way and instead of the compassion I see being given to others, she is getting "in your face" ANSWER ME NOW treatment.

Please understand that I love the ducks ( I was the first one to change my avatar to a duck, but I'll bet no one remembers that) but there is a bit of a clique mentality here that you all may not be seeing.

Please, let's just know that everyone has their own inventory and we don't always know what that is, nor do we always have the right to know.

I will now go back to lurking.

Mary