Why the fascination with Kimmer? #17

[2big4mysize]

looking at Dee's menu it doesn't match the kimkins plan as orginally posted on the kimkins.con site so has Kimmer altered it or did you tweak it Dee? and if you tweaked it does Kimmer now allow tweaking as she herself said if you tweak it isn't kimkins.

[cleochatra]

Originally Posted by ChloeKatz

Cleo --

Just wanted to let you know I'm having another "all Cleo" day today: Oopsie rolls, crullers (which are kick-butt good!) and pizza with zucchini crust. Yum! Thanks for the recipes.

My DH said something funny the other day. I made him a baked potato to go with his dinner. I said, "Look, a real potato. Not cauliflower disguised as a potato." He said, "Ya, I know you -- it's probably something made out of an Oopsie." The guy still cracks me up, even after 31 years of marriage.

That is too funny!

[Nady]

Originally Posted by Barbara B

The thing I keep thinking of is how many people who are here on this thread at one time defended Heidi to the hilt? Who really believed we were all just haters? So I am trying to keep an open mind here.

No kidding~ I'm from right here~ LCF (since Dec. 2001)~ my first post on the first thread was this~

Why the fascination with Kimmer?
I remember when she left LCF~ and why~ and under the circumstances, I would have left too! She was always willing to help others do what she did~ she didn't deserve to be attacked just because some people didn't agree with her methods.

And yes, I think the pictures are all the same person.

Boy~ did I have a lot to learn!
~~~N

[DEEDLYNN]

2big4--I don't think I tweaked it. I admit that my main focus is no more than 20 carbs a day and I have posted my menu many times throughout the KK forums and chat. I have never been reprimanded for any menu that I have posted by anyone from the KK community...Although one time there was a very heated debate over an ounce of cream cheese with another member (not admin) ...LOL.

To tell the truth, when I joined in June, I was going through some traumatic personal issues, so I"m not sure what the "food lists" were at that time or what was posted about the diet....but I think somewhere I still have the WW article...so I will look at it to see.

[TerryC]

The very first time I heard anything about the kimkins controversy was the day that Jimmy announced that he was going to be making a statement on kimkins in a couple of days. I followed some people's links in their comments to his blog and I knew at that moment that what I was hearing was true. I had only joined in June after the article so I wasn't aware of anything until then.

I am so thankful that I believed the moment I heard it and I stopped right then doing kk.

[cleochatra]

Cleo--- in answer to your question...
Here is a typical day for me.
7:30 am--- EAS carb control shake or Stallone protein pudding
9:30 am--- Turkey sausage links (scrambled eggs if I so desire--but usually not)
noon--- chicken or tuna and a small salad (usually make my own dressing with mustard and Davinci SF pancake syrup--kinda a honey mustard) SF jello
2:30 pm --turkey pepperoni and string cheese or
Stallone protein pudding or
carb control yogurt
5:30 pm --chicken or fish (very rarely beef--but sometimes)
more often than not..smashed cauliflower

snack-- turkey pepperoni...laughing cow cheese

Girl, that sounds a lot like Atkins or South Beach. Why no beef? Do you prefer fowl and fish? I am a turkey fan, too! That's some good stuff right there.

The oopsies and crullers are good stuff. South Beachers often make the oopsies with the ricotta cheese if they feel the cream cheese has too much fat. Here is the zucchini crust and the cauliflower crust. There are other recipes you can use the dough for as well (lasagna, taco bowls, taco shells, enchiladas, lasagna roll-ups, you name it!). I have to keep working in those vegetables, but I wouldn't have lasted this long on any low carb without being able to have pizza, lasagna and Mexican food.

(Sorry for showing up so late. Was running errands most of the morning then hubby came home and now I'm multi tasking the home schooling before other kids get home).

[Magicsmom]

Originally Posted by size124life

Magic,

I don't suggest we 'blow off' anyone, I did suggest that we acknowledge and answer those with opposing views. I do believe there is a point in a discuss/debate where you just might have to acknowlege you are at a point where additional discussion is pointless. If an issue is moot, such as whether Heidi is a crook or whether Kimkins is safe and effective, then debate should probably be taken only so far on a thread like this. We will hope that by giving opposers respectful acknowledgement and information, that will pique their curiosity and they will continue to check in and make additonal 'discoveries' for themselve. Everyone comes to accept the truth in their own time...

I believe we have done exactly what you are saying we should do. We do get to a point with people where we have the "agree to disagree" discussion. Just when to have that discussion differs with each person. As I said before, the reason we have some posters with us is that we patiently showed them the facts. If someone doesn't want to get it, that's up to them. You cannot force someone to change their mind, and that applies to us too. People cannot change our minds by coming here and beating us down. It is what it is.

[size124life]

As I have stated previously, I never did KK, and have been a part of this community for many years (albeit primarily in lurk mode ) and I have seen this thread evolve from the discussion of our fascination with a controversial figure to one of an outing and aiding with the conviction of a probable felon. Things have changed dramatically over the years. But one thing I am convinced of is the sincerity of those involved in the investigation. and their genuine concern for the health and betterment of others. Perhaps the thread gets a little rambuctious at times, some what off topic and even some what off-color, I still think this is a terrific group that has grown and will continue to grow as more truth is consistently revealed. We all have different personalities and are very fortunate to have this forum and the moderators we have. I just hope this frank discussion about who we are now will put some things into perspective and that any wounded feelings will be healed as we move forward with our collective goal - the take-down of the Kimpire. God bless you ladies, I think I will head back to Lurkdom now!

[Madam De Leon]

Originally Posted by DEEDLYNN

2big4--I don't think I tweaked it. I admit that my main focus is no more than 20 carbs a day and I have posted my menu many times throughout the KK forums and chat. I have never been reprimanded for any menu that I have posted by anyone from the KK community...Although one time there was a very heated debate over an ounce of cream cheese with another member (not admin) ...LOL.

To tell the truth, when I joined in June, I was going through some traumatic personal issues, so I"m not sure what the "food lists" were at that time or what was posted about the diet....but I think somewhere I still have the WW article...so I will look at it to see.

That's part of the problem. Whatever might be the posted food lists/diet plans on the site right now, it wasn't the same back when the WW article came out, and wasn't the same as what was in the WW article either.

I'm sure someone on here (probably HB - she seems to have screen shots of just about *everything*!) has dated screen shots of the various permutations of the plans - although they have gone through changes since the lawsuit was brought against her, they are all still nutritionally bankrupt.

[LINC]

Originally Posted by 2big4mysize

looking at Dee's menu it doesn't match the kimkins plan as orginally posted on the kimkins.con site so has Kimmer altered it or did you tweak it Dee? and if you tweaked it does Kimmer now allow tweaking as she herself said if you tweak it isn't kimkins.

I wasn't going to reopen that can of worms because it's already been discussed, but that's what I find so interesting about Dee's point of view. I, personally, don't think she's doing Kimkins. She's certainly not doing the plan behind the plan.

But if Dee wants to give credit to Kimkins because that's where she learned to eat whatever she's eating, that's her prerogative. Maybe there are a bunch of people there eating what Dee is eating and losing weight. Maybe they're encouraging each other and teaching each other. Reading Dee's posts helps me to understand why she and other people defend Kimkins. That's been a question that's been on my mind, and now it makes a little more sense. What she's doing is working for her. Even if we disagree about what plan she's on, she feels like she got value for her money. And if she can accept Heidi's apology and move on, that's her choice. If she wants to stay at Kimkins, that's also her choice. I may not agree with her reasoning, but that's MY choice.

When I look at her menu I don't see a plan that's starving her. I see a sensible lower calorie, low carb plan. It's not a whole lot different from what I eat, except I'm doing WW. Yeah, WW. I'm trying (not so successfully) to do it low carb these days. So, reading Dee's "Kimkins" menus have given me some ideas for my own menu. I'm not calling it Kimkins though. Whatever I lose will be categorized as a WW loss.

Lou

[Magicsmom]

Originally Posted by Madam De Leon

That's part of the problem. Whatever might be the posted food lists/diet plans on the site right now, it wasn't the same back when the WW article came out, and wasn't the same as what was in the WW article either.

I'm sure someone on here (probably HB - she seems to have screen shots of just about *everything*!) has dated screen shots of the various permutations of the plans - although they have gone through changes since the lawsuit was brought against her, they are all still nutritionally bankrupt.

Her current plan does not even resemble the original one. I remember her saying that cheese and yogurt were for maintenance only. I remember toward the end of the month I did KK that I was eating Carb Control yogurt and feeling like I was cheating. There is no doubt she has tweaked her own plan in response to the accusations from the lawsuit.

[cleochatra]

Originally Posted by Amyb1569

Cleo and other Atkins ladies.

Okay here is something hard to admit...but hey lately I seem to spill it all here . And since this involves KK I think it is okay to post here..maybe another kk person will read this and know it is a post KK issue.

When I did KK I did not eat too much..oh wow that is a shock for some...lol
So I found it easy cause as Jeannie says ..I am use to grab a little this or that and that was a meal. But now that I am back to atkins..I find myself in a constant behind the eight ball way...cause I am not use to planning .

So I am going to work on that. That is why I asked you Cleo.
One last off topic question...I have had cast iron pans and ended up throwing them out. If I were to buy one...other then bringing it home what else do I do with it to make it ready...lol

I can help you more with that if you'd like. I have gone from binging on thousands of calories a day to having to force myself to eat on Atkins.

To make your pans ready, rub down the insides with cooking oil. Heat on a low temp until oil begins to liquify, and then wipe the inner surface with a paper towel. You don't have to toss even rusty pans. They can be cleaned up! The pores open when the pan is heated, which helps the pans (and you). You can also bake a pan in the oven at 300 degrees for 15 minutes (be careful, hot hot hot) after rubbing with oil and salt to season the pan.

[DEEDLYNN]

Cleo--I never have been a big beef eater...so..yep...fowl & fish have always been my preference. I'm glad I'm off work this afternoon....because I have been reading a lot of the recipes on your blog. Looks better than anything that I've done with veggies. LOL.

Is there a recipe thread on LCF that you post too, so that I can peek in there and move my food talk to the appropriate spot and respect the request regarding being OT here?

Thanks,
Dee

[cleochatra]

Originally Posted by DEEDLYNN

Cleo--I never have been a big beef eater...so..yep...fowl & fish have always been my preference. I'm glad I'm off work this afternoon....because I have been reading a lot of the recipes on your blog. Looks better than anything that I've done with veggies. LOL.

Is there a recipe thread on LCF that you post too, so that I can peek in there and move my food talk to the appropriate spot and respect the request regarding being OT here?

Thanks,
Dee

Coffee, Dee and me (Foodie discussion)

[2big4mysize]

Madam De Leon

I've got a copy I used in my discussion of the eating plan on my blog with TT and on another page with DANA.

Dee
neither Turkey sausage links, stallone pudding nor turkey pepperoni are a lean protein. However the fat content in them maybe what is keeping you healthy right now.

Since kimkins is lean proteins most true kimkineetes are deficeint in essential fatty acids and fats in their diet something the human body can not simple correct by making a withdrawal from its fat deposits as Kimmer has stated over and over. That was what caused many of the "medical issues" true kimkins dieters experienced.

I doubt very much Kimmer or any admin would admonish you for tweaking the kimkins plan since the site is benefiting from your weight loss success. Now if you were to go tell all the newbies to alter the plan to be successful like you and somebody who was strickly following the plan got into a discussion with you about your tweaks the kimmer of old would take over and say you were not doing her plan cause you were tweaking it and should call it something else. "fatkins" I believe is the term she used in the past.

I noticed you are doing both cardio and resistance training as Dr Atkins required too. Is your doc monitoring you closely for any vit, mineral, and nutriant defincies? looking at your eating your potassim is low as are your fat soluble vits. Have you plugged your eating into one of the free online sites like fitday.com to see what supplements you need based on your food choices? I know I was potassium deficent doing extended Atkins induction even with my VP which my doc confirmed with a blood test and recommended supplements for. When I moved to OWL and added more veggies, dairy, nuts, seeds, berries, and legumes my requirements changed and he stopped the potassium.

Also as you are shirnking your body are you able to see if you are maintaining your lean body mass with your weight training or are you too low in proteins doing Kimkins to meet your needs?

Originally Posted by DEEDLYNN

2big4--I don't think I tweaked it. I admit that my main focus is no more than 20 carbs a day and I have posted my menu many times throughout the KK forums and chat. I have never been reprimanded for any menu that I have posted by anyone from the KK community...Although one time there was a very heated debate over an ounce of cream cheese with another member (not admin) ...LOL.

To tell the truth, when I joined in June, I was going through some traumatic personal issues, so I"m not sure what the "food lists" were at that time or what was posted about the diet....but I think somewhere I still have the WW article...so I will look at it to see.

[Sweeteater]

[quote=jo2621;10310557]Very familiar lines in red.

"Been a member of Kimkins for almost a year now but honestly haven't started the diet until this past Sunday. No real excuse here - just laziness, procrastination and a love of all things edible that has really kept me from being faithful.

My goal is to get back into my "high school shape," which was still medically considered obese, but being a football lineman, there was some muscle underneath the fat -- I remember how much energy I had and how I looked. Of course my weight was 250 lb and over the years I have lost and gained my way up to 375 lb. I'm still an active person who compensates for a corporate job (sitting in front of the computer all day) by walking as much as I can. Living in Manhattan, this is almost a way of life and a necessity as cars aren't that prevalent.

I had real success with the Atkins program in 2000 and lost close to 50 pounds that I had gained after high school and through college. Of course, I returned to my old eating habits and gained it back (plus a whole lot more).

To me, the Atkins program has started to get somewhat muddled down with the wide array of meal and snack replacement bars on the market, low carb protein shakes and supplements. Being someone who likes to "chew" and actually savor the flavor of food in my mouth, these aren't really the best thing for me. At the same time I was enjoying eating unbattered fried chicken, steaks for days and mayonnaise on everything, I was beginning to worry about the high caloric and high fat intake of the foods I was eating.

Research lead me to Kimkins which answered some of my questions and gave me some hope. I found myself not getting caught up in the bad press surrounding the diet, but focused on the results I was seeing by those who had tried the program and it actually worked.

So now, as mentioned above, today is day 6 of being on Kimkins and I have lost 8.6 pounds. I was afraid of the headaches stemming from caffeine and carb withdrawal (as I live on Diet Coke and love bread) so about 4 days before starting I began to wean myself off both in hopes of cutting down on the withdrawal symptoms and it worked!!! As of day six, I have only had one headache and I believe that was more stress related than anything.

Here are some of the tips that have helped me thus far:

1. Weaning myself off of caffeine, sugar and bread a few days before starting the diet head-on (so as to not go cold turkey).

2. Using my grocery store's on-line shopping feature which allows me to "virtually shop" in the store then drop by and pick up Kimkins-friendly groceries for home for the week. This helps me to avoid the pitfalls of the fresh baked breads, desserts and middle aisles of the store where temptation seems to lurk heavily.

3. At home I quickly boiled up around a dozen eggs to have on hand in the frig -- allows making tuna salad, deviled eggs or snacks readily accessible. Took large packages of fresh, boneless, skinless chicken breasts, proportioned the sizes and put in individual Ziploc bags in the freezer, only keeping 1 or 2 in the frig to throw on the George Foreman grill in a pinch.

3. Multivitamin: I was already taking one so this wasn't something new. I use the "Mega Men" from GNC as a personal preference

4. Packing my lunch every day without fail! Additionally, have also packed an afternoon snack of a couple of deviled eggs to eat right before I drive home. Since I pass several fast-food restaurants on the way, I've found if I'm not hungry, my SUV won't "automatically" pull-in to the drive-thru.

5. Bought a new suit two sizes smaller than my current size and hung it up on my closet door as a constant reminder of my first goal. Once I meet that goal I'll buy another a size smaller and continue to do the same thing until I've reached my goal.

6. Water: I'm not the only one who hates the taste of water. I did come up with a compromise for myself (albeit somewhat costly) of being different types of bottled water (a few bottles of Evian, Dasani, Fiji, etc.) and alternating what I drink. All have a different "taste" and it helps to "keep it interesting". I've also allowed myself a glass of seltzer water a day to satisfy my soft drink addiction.

That's it for today. A lot I know, but hopefully it'll help some other newbies out there."

--------------

Is this old? I've seen/read this somewhere before it seems like, a few months ago...but, where?

[LINC]

Originally Posted by 2big4mysize

neither Turkey sausage links, stallone pudding nor turkey pepperoni are a lean protein. However the fat content in them maybe what is keeping you healthy right now.

This pudding has aroused my curiosity, so I googled it. It has 100 calories, 2 g fat, 2 carbs and 1 g fiber. I would consider that pretty low fat. No? Anyway, the bigger concern is taste. Does the pudding taste like butt?

Lou

[2big4mysize]

Originally Posted by LINC

This pudding has aroused my curiosity, so I googled it. It has 100 calories, 2 g fat, 2 carbs and 1 g fiber. I would consider that pretty low fat. No? Anyway, the bigger concern is taste. Does the pudding taste like butt?

Lou

oops the site I looked at had the % fats listed which I read as grams of fat guess that are low fat and not helping keep Dee healthy so I hope she picked the pepperoni and cheese as her snack and not it.

[This time]

Originally Posted by LINC

This pudding has aroused my curiosity, so I googled it. It has 100 calories, 2 g fat, 2 carbs and 1 g fiber. I would consider that pretty low fat. No? Anyway, the bigger concern is taste. Does the pudding taste like butt?

Lou

[LChottie07]

[quote=Sweeteater;10311064]

Originally Posted by jo2621

Is this old? I've seen/read this somewhere before it seems like, a few months ago...but, where?

That's exactly what I was thinking!

[wifezilla]

When I look at her menu I don't see a plan that's starving her.

You also don't see KIMKINS. And if someone stumbles on Kimmers OLD KIMKINS plan, that new person, believing they are doing THE SAME PLAN as someone who ISN'T (and is actually getting enough fat) could be screwing up their thyroid, destroying their gall bladder, and damaging their heart.

By having people claim to be doing a plan they obviously aren't and leave the claim unchallenged, we do MANY people a disservice. WORDS MEAN THINGS.

[wifezilla]

THIS is the original Kimkins plan....

Here's the guidelines for Kimkins:

* Up to 20 total carbs (not 'net')
* Up to 3 cups salad type veggies or
* Up to 2 cups salad veggies + .5 cup 'cooked'
* 70-90 lean protein grams
* No LC products, treats, junk or alcohol
* Just enough fat to make your menu work (don't overdo)

Here's the guidelines for the Kimmer Experiment (not M/E):

* As much lean protein as you desire
* Length of time is 3-5 days depending on how 'carbed up' you are
* Purpose is to experience 'real' ketosis (weight loss, no appetite)
* Useful as a springboard for other LC programs
* No alcohol, no cheese
* Basic condiments and spices OK (watch catsup & A1 sauce)
Ask Kimmer!

And here is some of her WONDERFUL dieting advice...
" Originally Posted by Mrsevans
Kimmer,

A question about my calories? Do you think 900 calories a day is ok if I am not hungry for anymore then that? Will my body go in starvation mode do you think? Even if im not hungry?

Kimmer:
Not at all. Look at people with gastric bypass surgery (400-500 calories), Stillmans (600-750 calories) or the water fasters (0 calories) ... all lose 1 pound a day or more.

What you do want to do is pick highly nutritious foods like half a grilled chicken breast & lettuce/spinach/salsa roll-ups instead of a LC bar ... for the same 250 calories.

Be sure to take a Centrum type (or better) vitamin each day. The intent of very low carb ... hence very low appetite ... is to lose fast, then when you get close to goal, increase calories with additional food. KajunDC has very good advice about whole fo