Why the fascination with Kimmer? #16

[HoneyBee2]

Thanks LL!
It sounds like Heidi has a pattern she uses everywhere she goes.
- Ignore
- then nicely make a jab
- then become mean and turn things ugly
- then ban

See there I could have just written her e-book about Kimkin's success.
Four Easy Steps to Success

ETA- LL, you nut, the addition of the word "doo-doo" made all the difference....lol

[OhYeahBabe]

Originally Posted by Amyb1569

Ladies...

I know I do not need to say this but I want to.
I know I have been a little off lately. I am having a tugging with who I am and what and where my place is. I can not explain right now..but I will soon enough. I have been in a way...did I mention that. It has come to my attention that so many people think I have been awful and mean and on and on. Somedays like today I kind of feel like I am those things. The problem is when everyone has a opinion without the facts...and I can not give the facts..then...well this is what happens.
It also has been brought to my attention that maybe some of the ducks have doubts with me or the issues with Heidi and Gary with Philip etc. I have no idea if this is true or not. But I have posted word for word PM's that Heidi had with BOO I also know that it was found that Gary was found out to be the go f yourself lol person...so how there could be any question as to what I have said..I do not know.
I have done my best to have my blog be about the truth. I have offered a place for both sides to tell their sides and their opinions.
I will say that I know that some things that people other then myself may not be the truth or the whole story. When or if there is proof of that ...then that too will be posted. But not until then.
So the focus of this is...I am Amy B. I do not hide who I am or what I am. I never have and have no plans of doing so. I feel like I am a nice person and a honest and trustful person...until there is a reason to feel otherwise.
If someone has a issue or concern with me..then just say it to me...I have the grapevine..have you noticed..things never come out the way they started.
And yes I am still having a angry Heidi and her crew day. One day soon...she may just regret all the mean spiteful things she has said.
I am done now..lol

Amy, I really don't know you at all, but I have never read anything from you that was nasty. Not even harsh. You stated the truth as you knew it, and that's all. I think the people calling you nasty are likely just not happy about having something they are desperate to hold onto threatened, even though it's not good for them. Think of how hard you resisted anyone making you SEE how awful Kimmer was. They don't want to see, so they are lashing out. That doesn't mean you should stop talking, because it's your right. If they don't want to read, they can choose not to.

Hang in there. I know you're in a tough position.

[OhYeahBabe]

Originally Posted by Nady

Sometimes, we grow by going through the fire~ walking those burning hot coals. It's the way the old is destroyed and new is born~ (think Phoenix bird) and when we get to the other side, then we understand why it had to be that way.

The truth is often not 'nice' and usually hurts. When someone feels that pain, instead of claiming you're not nice, maybe they need to look at why it hurts? Sometimes, our best friends are the ones that believe we deserve the truth, even if it's painful~ to do anything less is cowardly. And one thing I know Amy~ you're no coward!

have patience with yourself while you're going through this metamorphosis~ you will come out the other side even more glorious!
~~~N

Great points, Nady. I should have kept reading before answering Amy. Support doesn't mean blindly helping people to fail themselves just because it's what they want. A real friend will help a person achieve their personal best.

[LosingToLive]

Originally Posted by HoneyBee2

Thanks LL!
It sounds like Heidi has a pattern she uses everywhere she goes.
- Ignore
- then nicely make a jab
- then become mean and turn things ugly
- then ban

See there I could have just written her e-book about Kimkin's success.
Four Easy Steps to Success

ETA- LL, you nut, the addition of the word "doo-doo" made all the difference....lol

Yep, the "doo-doo" fits.

But lets not forget something... When she first came on board, she acted so "clueless" (still is). She would ask questions and post "so called" menus. Of course they weren’t hers but she was looking for people to fall for her “doo-doo”. And they did !
She wasn’t on a LC diet, she was reeling people in on her side. They took her in, helped her (while she was pigging out). People listened to her while she was shedding weight at a rate that set off bells.

She acted so sweet and innocent back then, she needed people to guide her, then she found she was losing faster than anyone on “her plan”. That’s when it all started to go down the drain. People wanted her miracle plan, and she was able to guide them. *sigh*

LL

[Magicsmom]

Wow so many good, insightful posts today. I won't be redundant, but wanted to give hugs to AmyB Please don't let her psyche you out. You truly have friends here.

back, Lisa Rae. I totally remember you and the dust ups with Kimmer, most of which got poofed for being too heated. Kimmer has a passive-aggressive way of escalating things. As for me, I'll move on when our work is done. But now is not the time. Sorry if you think we're wasting our lives or something, but we have work to do.

[OhYeahBabe]

Originally Posted by HoneyBee2

You have to know that this is condescending and belittles the people who are posting in this thread. I mean when has anyone ever told you to MOVE ON and not done it in a negative manner?
Why?

You know, if she hadn't used all caps for that phrase, I might not have been as insulted as I was!

Personally, I don't feel there's anything I need to move on from. I stick up for what I believe in, and continue to do so. It's actually been very empowering!

[OhYeahBabe]

Originally Posted by LosingToLive

Ok how can I handle this without getting a big slap?

Heidi was allowed to say ANYTHING she wanted, when questioned, WE were the ones to have our posts go "poof".
But you have to understand, she was convincing to some (like with the KK site) but any others would get their posts removed because we would NOT agree with her. It was all "new" then. She lied about her plan, but some of us were asking her the questions she didn't want to answer. She made everyone believe that she had a plan that worked. When we wanted proof, she would always go in another direction.

The Admins were trying very hard to keep everything very "nice". Unfortunately, Heidi had so many “snowed” that she knew what she was talking about, ….. the rest of us were considered trouble makers or doubters. (Yep, and I am PROUD). We KNEW she was full of doo-doo!!!

LL

Think "charismatic leader." It's a cult thing!

[HoneyBee2]

Originally Posted by LosingToLive

Yep, the "doo-doo" fits.

But lets not forget something... When she first came on board, she acted so "clueless" (still is). She would ask questions and post "so called" menus. Of course they weren’t hers but she was looking for people to fall for her “doo-doo”. And they did !
She wasn’t on a LC diet, she was reeling people in on her side. They took her in, helped her (while she was pigging out). People listened to her while she was shedding weight at a rate that set off bells.

She acted so sweet and innocent back then, she needed people to guide her, then she found she was losing faster than anyone on “her plan”. That’s when it all started to go down the drain. People wanted her miracle plan, and she was able to guide them. *sigh*

LL

Oh sure she was all "helpless" at first, because that doesn't put people on the defensive, where as if she came in here saying "I know the fastest way to weight loss period" she would have been ignored.

What you just described sounds like the honeymoon phase or the set-up, where she was being all nice and helpless to reel people in. I mean most people are good people and want to help others! Heidi takes advantage of that!

The e-book was just me "pickin" .... on Heidi's lack of e-book and where her true expertise is in all this- manipulation.

The examples of tactics I listed, that Heidi seems to use, are only useful once, you have something to "push" or something that someone wants.
Like most cons - you have to offer something-but in the end it is all lies.

Originally Posted by Magicsmom

Wow so many good, insightful posts today. I won't be redundant, but wanted to give hugs to AmyB Please don't let her psyche you out. You truly have friends here.

back, Lisa Rae. I totally remember you and the dust ups with Kimmer, most of which got poofed for being too heated. Kimmer has a passive-aggressive way of escalating things. As for me, I'll move on when our work is done. But now is not the time. Sorry if you think we're wasting our lives or something, but we have work to do.

That was hitting the nail on the head Magic!
Heidi is the master of passive-aggressive, if I have ever seen it. She would even give my MIL a run for her money! But my MIL uses guilt a little bit better....

[BamaGal]

I'm catching up but had to respond...

Originally Posted by This time

You're not alone, all of us are in the Heidi pissy mood I wonder if she will be allowed to take pictures of herself in her new orange jump suit, i bet the bars will show

I adore bad jokes---my son has the quirkiest sense of humor like his dad---

Originally Posted by wifezilla

Is it THAT time of the month AGAIN???

(Is it possible for women hanging out on the internet to all end up on the same cycle??) Shoot yeah, I started Thurs

Here...I fix it...

Originally Posted by wifezilla

If there was a cure for bad jokes, my husband would have slipped some in to my coconut milk smoothies long ago

speaking of smoothies how about sharing some recipes....

[LosingToLive]

Originally Posted by OhYeahBabe

Think "charismatic leader." It's a cult thing!

Yes, I agee.

There were thousands of members back then, I'd like to know how many fell for her "doo-doo". (hush up HoneyBee).

Yes, some let them beleived that they would never fall for her um.... plan.
But yet they followed her with new names. (yes, they were/are there).

But there were the ones that kept getting slapped for speaking their minds or asking questions. Almighty Hiney had this miracle plan that shed her weight without extra skin, without health issues, without causing any harm.... my gosh..... she has a miracle plan and knew something that ALL doctors were privy too. (give US a beak).

Please note.... this post isn't for those who joined her site because of the Womens World write up.
It will only make sense to those who have been here for many years listening to her spew her crud. (Oops, am I being mean? Kinda like she told me that I was eating too many slices of green pepper with "pepper steak"? Ok, I'm sorry.... NOT).

Have a good night everyone, stand tall, keep your ground and continue the fight. They will continue to come in to tell you to stop.... fight even harder!!!

LL

[LosingToLive]

Honey
When she came in, she was charming, and most people really wanted to help her. I think she really wanted to shed some pounds.

As time went on, she became this rude, crude nasty lady making fun of people. Her plan was working so great, she was shedding pounds so fast they were breaking the tiles on her floors. But in her real life she was a ........... (ok I'll stop)

Oh and Honey, I got the "ebook"... still not paying you 79.95 for it. Keep trying till you get to six, maybe then we'll talk. !

LL

[Cutie]

LL...you do have "such" a way with words

oh the memories...

[Madam De Leon]

When I signed in to gmail a little while ago, this popped up on my "web clips":

Wordsmith.org: Today's Word - harpy: 1. A predatory person. 2. A bad-tempered woman.



"Harpy Hidey"

ETA: I didn't realize that the link would automatically copy and paste, so I went to make sure I didn't need to delete it... Well, whaddaya know, this little description followed the definition on Wordsmith:

[After the Harpies, monsters in Greek mythology, who had a woman's head and a bird's body. The gods ordered them to snatch food from Phineus, a king who was punished for revealing secrets. From Greek harpazein (to snatch).]

[Sherrie_lc]

Originally Posted by LosingToLive

Ok how can I handle this without getting a big slap?

Heidi was allowed to say ANYTHING she wanted, when questioned, WE were the ones to have our posts go "poof".
But you have to understand, she was convincing to some (like with the KK site) but any others would get their posts removed because we would NOT agree with her. It was all "new" then. She lied about her plan, but some of us were asking her the questions she didn't want to answer. She made everyone believe that she had a plan that worked. When we wanted proof, she would always go in another direction.

The Admins were trying very hard to keep everything very "nice". Unfortunately, Heidi had so many “snowed” that she knew what she was talking about, ….. the rest of us were considered trouble makers or doubters. (Yep, and I am PROUD). We KNEW she was full of doo-doo!!!

LL

I think what part of the problem was that unfortunately the moderating "reinforced" Kimmer and the people behind her. I mean if the admins were deleting all these negative posts etc then Kimmer must be right?

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by cleochatra

The lady is in no way affiliated with low-carbing, but is a total 'stranger' to the online situation with Kimmer. She just went to a friend of mine and said, "OMG! I heard about this person who... (insert discussion of fake Russian brides here)" and before you could say Bob's your mother's husband's brother, it was obvious she was talking about Kimkins!

I had another friend about 5 months ago came to me and tell me about an absurd article she read in Woman's World, and we laughed about it. It was Kimkins!

It is so refreshing to know that there are people who are not of these boards or threads who are getting the news and talking to others about it. It shows that the information has spiraled out from the 'inner circle' to the general public, which is so reaffirming!

Yeah, but then comes the day you have to confess that you were taken in by that schmuck ... People who haven't been in that or a real similar situation have a hard time getting that part ...

[BamaGal]

Originally Posted by SMP

I just zipped through the court document, Magic, but somehow the sum of $10,000 from Paypal stuck in my head. Whatever, she for sure cannot refund each and every member in the lawsuit a reasonable sum. OTOH, it's possible she might sell the house if the Big House beckons. But I won't count on it.

the $10,000 figure was the amount of the bond the plaintiff's have to put up in this case


from my understanding---in a class action case the plaintiffs are required to post x number of dollars in case they lose the case to compensate the defendant--in most cases it is equal to the amount of the writ of attachment--in one of the earlier papers John pointed out how strong this case is for fraud and requested the minimum bond be allowed---which it was---$10,000 is the least amount California law allows in a class action case-

[BamaGal]

Two Basic Types of Aggression
There are two basic types of aggression: overt-aggression and covert-aggression. When you’re determined to have something and you’re open, direct and obvious in your manner of fighting, your behavior is best labeled overtly aggressive. When you’re out to “win,” dominate or control, but are subtle, underhanded or deceptive enough to hide your true intentions, your behavior is most appropriately labeled covertly aggressive. Now, avoiding any overt display of aggression while simultaneously intimidating others into giving you what you want is a powerfully manipulative maneuver. That’s why covert-aggression is most often the vehicle for interpersonal manipulation.
Acts of Covert-Aggression vs. Covert-Aggressive Personalities
Most of us have engaged in some sort of covertly aggressive behavior from time to time. Periodically trying to manipulate a person or a situation doesn’t make someone a covert-aggressive personality. Personality can be defined by the way a person habitually perceives, relates to and interacts with others and the world at large.
The tactics of deceit, manipulation and control are a steady diet for covert-aggressive personality. It’s the way they prefer to deal with others and to get the things they want in life.

Let’s take a look at the principal tactics covert-aggressive personalities use to ensure they get their way and maintain a position of power over their victims:

Denial – This is when the aggressor refuses to admit that they’ve done something harmful or hurtful when they clearly have. It’s a way they lie (to themselves as well as to others) about their aggressive intentions. This “Who… Me?” tactic is a way of “playing innocent,” and invites the victim to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior.
Selective Inattention – This tactic is similar to and sometimes mistaken for denial It’s when the aggressor “plays dumb,” or acts oblivious. When engaging in this tactic, the aggressor actively ignores the warnings, pleas or wishes of others, and in general, refuses to pay attention to everything and anything that might distract them from pursuing their own agenda. Often, the aggressor knows full well what you want from him when he starts to exhibit this “I don’t want to hear it!” behavior. By using this tactic, the aggressor actively resists submitting himself to the tasks of paying attention to or refraining from the behavior you want him to change.
Rationalization – A rationalization is the excuse an aggressor tries to offer for engaging in an inappropriate or harmful behavior. It can be an effective tactic, especially when the explanation or justification the aggressor offers makes just enough sense that any reasonably conscientious person is likely to fall for it. It’s a powerful tactic because it not only serves to remove any internal resistance the aggressor might have about doing what he wants to do (quieting any qualms of conscience he might have) but also to keep others off his back. If the aggressor can convince you he’s justified in whatever he’s doing, then he’s freer to pursue his goals without interference.
Diversion – A moving target is hard to hit. When we try to pin a manipulator down or try to keep a discussion focused on a single issue or behavior we don’t like, he’s expert at knowing how to change the subject, dodge the issue or in some way throw us a curve. Manipulators use distraction and diversion techniques to keep the focus off their behavior, move us off-track, and keep themselves free to promote their self-serving hidden agendas.
Lying – It’s often hard to tell when a person is lying at the time he’s doing it. Fortunately, there are times when the truth will out because circumstances don’t bear out somebody’s story. But there are also times when you don’t know you’ve been deceived until it’s too late. One way to minimize the chances that someone will put one over on you is to remember that because aggressive personalities of all types will generally stop at nothing to get what they want, you can expect them to lie and cheat. Another thing to remember is that manipulators – covert-aggressive personalities that they are – are prone to lie in subtle, covert ways. Courts are well aware of the many ways that people lie, as they require that court oaths charge that testifiers tell “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” Manipulators often lie by withholding a significant amount of the truth from you or by distorting the truth. They are adept at being vague when you ask them direct questions. This is an especially slick way of lying’ omission. Keep this in mind when dealing with a suspected wolf in sheep’s clothing. Always seek and obtain specific, confirmable information.
Covert Intimidation – Aggressors frequently threaten their victims to keep them anxious, apprehensive and in a one-down position. Covert-aggressives intimidate their victims by making veiled (subtle, indirect or implied) threats. Guilt-tripping and shaming are two of the covert-aggressive’s favourite weapons. Both are special intimidation tactics.
Guilt-tripping – One thing that aggressive personalities know well is that other types of persons have very different consciences than they do. Manipulators are often skilled at using what they know to be the greater conscientiousness of their victims as a means of keeping them in a self-doubting, anxious, and submissive position. The more conscientious the potential victim, the more effective guilt is as a weapon. Aggressive personalities of all types use guilt-tripping so frequently and effectively as a manipulative tactic, that I believe it illustrates how fundamentally different in character they are compared to other (especially neurotic) personalities. All a manipulator has to do is suggest to the conscientious person that they don’t care enough, are too selfish, etc., and that person immediately starts to feel bad. On the contrary, a conscientious person might try until they’re blue in the face to get a manipulator (or any other aggressive personality) to feel badly about a hurtful behavior, acknowledge responsibility, or admit wrongdoing, to absolutely no avail.
Shaming – This is the technique of using subtle sarcasm and put-downs as a means of increasing fear and self-doubt in others. Covert-aggressives use this tactic to make others feel inadequate or unworthy, and therefore, defer to them. It’s an effective way to foster a continued sense of personal inadequacy in the weaker party, thereby allowing an aggressor to maintain a position of dominance.
Playing the Victim Role – This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstances or someone else’s behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that covert-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and less hostile personalities usually can’t stand to see anyone suffering. Therefore, the tactic is simple. Convince your victim you’re suffering in some way, and they’ll try to relieve your distress.
Vilifying the Victim – This tactic is frequently used in conjunction with the tactic of playing the victim role. The aggressor uses this tactic to make it appear he is only responding (i.e. defending himself against) aggression on the part of the victim. It enables the aggressor to better put the victim on the defensive
Playing the Servant Role – Covert-aggressives use this tactic to cloak their self-serving agendas in the guise of service to a more noble cause. It’s a common tactic but difficult to recognize. By pretending to be working hard on someone else’s behalf, covert-aggressives conceal their own ambition, desire for power, and quest for a position of dominance over others.
Seduction – Covert-aggressive personalities are adept at charming, praising, flattering or overtly supporting others in order to get them to lower their defenses and surrender their trust and loyalty. Covert-aggressives are also particularly aware that people who are to some extent emotionally needy and dependent (and that includes most people who aren’t character-disordered) want approval, reassurance, and a sense of being valued and needed more than anything. Appearing to be attentive to these needs can be a manipulator’s ticket to incredible power over others.
Projecting the blame (blaming others) – Aggressive personalities are always looking for a way to shift the blame for their aggressive behavior. Covert-aggressives are not only skilled at finding scapegoats, they’re expert at doing so in subtle, hard to detect ways.
Minimization – This tactic is a unique kind of denial coupled with rationalization. When using this maneuver, the aggressor is attempting to assert that his abusive behavior isn’t really as harmful or irresponsible as someone else may be claiming. It’s the aggressor’s attempt to make a molehill out of a mountain.

Can you say…..HEIDI!!!

[BamaGal]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

Yeah, but then comes the day you have to confess that you were taken in by that schmuck ... People who haven't been in that or a real similar situation have a hard time getting that part ...

Why Do People Join Cults?
Philip Zimbardo urges us not to stereotype cult members. Rather than asking–“What kind of people join cults?” he suggests we should instead ask, “What was so appealing about this group that so many people were recruited/seduced into joining it voluntarily? What needs did the group fulfill that were not met by ‘traditional society?’” (Zimbardo 1998). It is also important to note that cults make many promises to potential recruits in the initial phases of induction–it is often not until months or years later that the recruit realizes that these promises were ploys to gain their compliance. However, by that time, the member is already submerged in the group and likely in submission to and under the undue influence of its leadership.
To blame the victims of successful cult recruiting strategies is an error. Everyone is vulnerable to persuasion given the right circumstances. Every day we can find examples of deceit, deception and trickery working effectively within society. There are numerous examples such as people duped into paying for unnecessary auto repairs or being persuaded to have costly surgical procedure not really required for their health. Salesmen, advertisers, lawyers and politicians and even some doctors–expend great effort developing their abilities to persuade others.

[LosingToLive]

Originally Posted by Cutie

LL...you do have "such" a way with words

oh the memories...

Oops

Like I've said before, I'm so glad you're back Amy! Not Hiney's Amy... the real Amy.

LL

[MomToEli]

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