Why the fascination with Kimmer? #15

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by samredman

jeanessa cited:



Yep... there's the rub (as Shakespeare was fond of saying). This was not "real or personal property." It's information, plain and simple (internet membership distributed or by book or a pamphlet... doesn't matter). Big difference, major legal distinction. And that common law definition I provided? That will apply in California as well (just ask your attorneys) before any specific local business practice statutes. If you can't get past the definitions of either "materiality" or the "intent to deceive," or both, you simply won't even get this before a jury.

The "intent to deceive" is very clearly documented. Heidi acknowledges that in her deposition, as well.

What's the point here?

[jo2621]

Originally Posted by OhYeahBabe

This sock's made of wool, to keep warm when it gets wet fishin'. Even with hip waders on the sock gets wet at times.

Is this sock here to talk, or fish?

I'm willing to bet cash money it smells like cough drops & mothballs.

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by SMP

Hey, what do I blame it on? Menopause is just a distant memory. There are several possibilities here -1. Insurance companies have to keep "inventing" new categories of insurance and then tout them. There are some suckers around.
2. This is a graceful way for TT to exit her ownership of a Camp that can't relieve her money miseries, and down the road, no one will be surprised when her sponsorship of the Camp ends.(2009)
3. There ARE undercurrents of which we know nothing. But TT only was let off the lawsuit , which is about fraud. Suppose someone she directly gave health advice to decides to sue her for knowing, or should have been aware, that such advice could result in mega miseries for the follower. (And TT was aware of health problems when she went into Kimkins, with her eyes wide shut!) This one makes as much sense to me as any.
But, in the grand scheme of things, very few people care. And I've reached that point. Who cares?

The only reason I can think of to care is that whenever someone who has been up to their eyeballs in this whole mess feels the need to tell major whoppers to explain their moves their actions become suspect. If she had just said she was at the point in her life she wants/needs to back away from the chalupa, who would have given it a thought? In fact, had it just been left at her little post over at the Camp, it might have been talked about, but wouldn't have thought twice about it all, really. But why the LONG explanation and third party blog posts going out of their way to convince us that TT has this oh so important and justified reason (which just doesn't happen to hold water) for handing things over to Brian and Heather? If she said NOTHING and just did it, who would have known or cared? Instead, all she has done is draw attention to the action, which makes me suspicious.

How's that for a circular argument?

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by Nady

I hope Heidi's attorney uses your arguments in court~ You're not really hearing any of this are you? Heidi admitted, in the depositions, to many of the points you think still need to be proven. When you have all the facts of this case, then you can make your opening arguments. Otherwise, now, you sound like just another thick headed man that only hears what he wants to hear. Sorry~
~~~N

Of course he is, Nady. And he isn't getting the rise he wants, so he is ratcheting up the rhetoric. Just watch. He will have everyone all up in arms before he is done, which is exactly his MO.

Don't say we haven't been warned ...

BTW, I doubt he could possibly have read all of this information in such a short period of time. Any bets on whether or not he has been in direct contact with Heidi?

[SMP]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

The only reason I can think of to care is that whenever someone who has been up to their eyeballs in this whole mess feels the need to tell major whoppers to explain their moves their actions become suspect. If she had just said she was at the point in her life she wants/needs to back away from the chalupa, who would have given it a thought? In fact, had it just been left at her little post over at the Camp, it might have been talked about, but wouldn't have thought twice about it all, really. But why the LONG explanation and third party blog posts going out of their way to convince us that TT has this oh so important and justified reason (which just doesn't happen to hold water) for handing things over to Brian and Heather? If she said NOTHING and just did it, who would have known or cared? Instead, all she has done is draw attention to the action, which makes me suspicious.

How's that for a circular argument?

Pretty good, actually. But some people just find it easier to give crappy excuses than to stand up to any expected heat for telling it as it is. "Sorry guys, I'm tired of this whole mess, even though I got myself into it. You can clean it up - I'm outta here!" People who make extravagant promises in order to be well thought of, frequently have to regret their Flapping Lip Syndrome and make excuses for the same reason, to be well thought of. TT's actions may be no more sinister than that.

[BamaGal]

Originally Posted by jeanessa

Mom and me were in the ER most of Friday and Saturday and then I think I slept for about two days straight...but she is good, nothing serious and I am learning to crochet. I feel very grown up!

need some patterns???

I've got tons I can share with you---I've been crocheting since I was a wee tyke of 4...

bet you would like some of the quick and easy ones for the Q-hook

give your Mom a big hug and a lap robe

Originally Posted by mrsmenopausal

I'm sorry to hear you had to go to the ER. You're both in my prayers.
Crocheting is a great stress reliever and after a while you can do it without even giving it much thought. Great way to keep your hands busy and let your mind relax.

when I want to zone out--I'll work on a mindless bunch of caps or house shoes---best thing in the world to just forget for awhile...

Originally Posted by rebel

Jeanessa - I'm glad to hear that it wasn't anything serious with your mother. Speaking of crochet, my mother made many bedspreads for me, the Lord's Prayer, and my wedding dress. She used the tiny thread that's almost like sewing thread.

I did a last supper one for my younger brother

I do alot of the Barbie Dolls in Southern Bell Dresses---

you have a pic of your wedding dress?? I bet it is gorgeous. I have made some summer type dresses and skirts for my nieces---and plenty of the Barbie wedding dresses and but I don't think I could even attempt a full size wedding dress

[samredman]

You should understand that any discussion of a lawsuit is not really productive when an objective outsider (such as myself) is talking to those who are looking at it much like hometown fans at a sporting event, where they will root for the home team no matter what the prospects are of the outcome. The difference in our vantage points makes for very a poor chance of proper communication. When people are too close to something, it sometimes makes a discussion non-productive. Also, it often happens that people intimately involved in a lawsuit invest too much of themselves, all for the possibly of getting that little bit of that "pie in the sky" or worse obtaining that vengeful "pound of flesh." I have seen lives ruined over the course of an extended litigation, where the primary motivation was really the vindictiveness, which comes from having peculiar need for revenge and retribution. It will eat you up psychologically and take a toll on your family too (much like a nasty divorce can do). What you must understand is that an attorney firm's motivations are different from yours... they are in business to be profitable and they spread their emotions out over many cases and really work from the premise that they could walk away from any of them and never have a twinge of regret (otherwise they would go nuts too). So, sometimes attorney firms will just keep going on a suit (especially one where they have hopes they might get Class Action status) because based on the minimal effort they have to do to launch it, it's a good long-shot wager for them to (literally) go through the motions just to see what happens.

If I were one those who are part of the lawsuit now... I would at this time seek out some independent counsel and ask that firm (might cost you a couple of thousand.. but well worth it) to look over this case and see if they think it has merit and if there really is any chance of success. You can be certain that the Diaz camp is going to be well-prepared and well-researched and loaded with legal precedents, which will be very convincing regarding this sort of action. It would be nice if you could get a totally objective viewpoint (from a lawyer who understands this area of the law) and who could tell you the downside (and upside) of what you are involved in and their opinion of the likelihood of victory.

You need to be mentally prepared for a court ordered settlement, which might happen... assuming they don't just throw it out as being "without merit" (I've seen it many times... don't be fooled by preliminary hearing successes like attachment of partial assets). But if it isn't thrown out, that settlement (which a judge could order) might be for a lot less than you had hoped for or imagined.

Maybe your settlement might be something like this: A court order for the defendant to make an offer of a refund of subscription fees (with a month or two of notification announcements), an agreed upon review of the site periodically by registered dietitians (like South Beach does), agreement to always use real pictures and notarized testimonials, agreement to post prominent disclaimers about dieting hazards and advice to have subscribers seek a physician's permission before proceeding.

You should know that the courts often aren't as draconian as plaintiffs would hope for them to be. Be mentally prepared, so that you aren't crushed by this kind of an outcome.

[Nady]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

Of course he is, Nady. And he isn't getting the rise he wants, so he is ratcheting up the rhetoric. Just watch. He will have everyone all up in arms before he is done, which is exactly his MO.

Don't say we haven't been warned ...

BTW, I doubt he could possibly have read all of this information in such a short period of time. Any bets on whether or not he has been in direct contact with Heidi?

I've been living (for over 40 years) with a prime example of male pattern deafness~ If Jeanessa is enjoying the verbal fencing, more power to her~ she's the one that really has the facts, after all. He can't win against her~ eventually she'll get bored too~

Maybe she (Heidi) contacted Sam to write a book about how a bunch of ducks tried to *sue a housewife, teehee* ~ she can do an infomercial to sell it!
~~~N

[jo2621]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

Of course he is, Nady. And he isn't getting the rise he wants, so he is ratcheting up the rhetoric. Just watch. He will have everyone all up in arms before he is done, which is exactly his MO.

Don't say we haven't been warned ...

BTW, I doubt he could possibly have read all of this information in such a short period of time. Any bets on whether or not he has been in direct contact with Heidi?

A couple years ago my late mother was seen by a Geriatric specialist. He told us that at her age (then 82) she was still pretty sharp but the old thing about people "regressing" as they age, especially men, was totally true. We really witnessed that with her in her last few months last year. She was like my terrier who gets a hold of something and will not "let it go".

I believe we are seeing a classic case of regression as I liken all of this to having an argument with my teen and 20's children.

They know everything, no matter what.

We don't know what we are talking about, even though we've actually lived through it.

Our facts are skewed and faulty and even if we produce concrete evidence and shove it under their noses, they'll still argue.

But just like my Scottie, if we ignore it and walk away, they'll drop it, let it go and look for a distraction somewhere else. 99% of this is a quest for attention.

[SMP]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

Of course he is, Nady. And he isn't getting the rise he wants, so he is ratcheting up the rhetoric. Just watch. He will have everyone all up in arms before he is done, which is exactly his MO.

Don't say we haven't been warned ...

In fact, Sam warned us that his major job right now is pot stirring on the Internet. He's nothing more than a contrarian who loves the sound of his own voice, (or words) and gets his jollies by exhibiting his dazzling erudition in numerous fields when exasperated responders make a few blunders. And they will, because they're angry. Sam isn't angry at all. He's sitting back chuckling as others make his day.

What can we learn from Sam? First off, he represents the kind of arguments Heidi's lawyers will use to try to have the case dismissed. In that case, debate unencumbered by righteous indignation may prove to be beneficial as it can sharpen our focus. Secondly, a lot of others will start off with his viewpoint that this is merely a ripple in the pond. Expect it, and dampen the emotions while you fire up the logical arguments.

But mostly, the main thing Sam can teach us after a few polite messages and facts back and forth is -

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!

[OhYeahBabe]

Originally Posted by jo2621

A couple years ago my late mother was seen by a Geriatric specialist. He told us that at her age (then 82) she was still pretty sharp but the old thing about people "regressing" as they age, especially men, was totally true. We really witnessed that with her in her last few months last year. She was like my terrier who gets a hold of something and will not "let it go".

I believe we are seeing a classic case of regression as I liken all of this to having an argument with my teen and 20's children.

They know everything, no matter what.

We don't know what we are talking about, even though we've actually lived through it.

Our facts are skewed and faulty and even if produce it as concrete evidence and shove it under their noses, they'll still argue.

But just like my Scottie, if we ignore it and walk away, they'll drop it, let it go and look for a distraction somewhere else. 99% of this is a quest for attention.

Awesome analogy. Especially given Sam's age.

[jo2621]

Originally Posted by SMP

In fact, Sam warned us that his major job right now is pot stirring on the Internet. He's nothing more than a contrarian who loves the sound of his own voice, (or words) and gets his jollies by exhibiting his dazzling erudition in numerous fields when exasperated responders make a few blunders. And they will, because they're angry. Sam isn't angry at all. He's sitting back chuckling as others make his day.

What can we learn from Sam? First off, he represents the kind of arguments Heidi's lawyers will use to try to have the case dismissed. In that case, debate unencumbered by righteous indignation may prove to be beneficial as it can sharpen our focus. Secondly, a lot of others will start off with his viewpoint that this is merely a ripple in the pond. Expect it, and dampen the emotions while you fire up the logical arguments.

But mostly, the main thing Sam can teach us after a few polite messages and facts back and forth is -

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!

As my Daddy used to say "he is a legend in his own mind"

[BamaGal]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

The only reason I can think of to care is that whenever someone who has been up to their eyeballs in this whole mess feels the need to tell major whoppers to explain their moves their actions become suspect. If she had just said she was at the point in her life she wants/needs to back away from the chalupa, who would have given it a thought? In fact, had it just been left at her little post over at the Camp, it might have been talked about, but wouldn't have thought twice about it all, really. But why the LONG explanation and third party blog posts going out of their way to convince us that TT has this oh so important and justified reason (which just doesn't happen to hold water) for handing things over to Brian and Heather? If she said NOTHING and just did it, who would have known or cared? Instead, all she has done is draw attention to the action, which makes me suspicious.

How's that for a circular argument?

it's like she has her own personal PR campaign going.....

Originally Posted by SMP

Pretty good, actually. But some people just find it easier to give crappy excuses than to stand up to any expected heat for telling it as it is. "Sorry guys, I'm tired of this whole mess, even though I got myself into it. You can clean it up - I'm outta here!" People who make extravagant promises in order to be well thought of, frequently have to regret their Flapping Lip Syndrome and make excuses for the same reason, to be well thought of. TT's actions may be no more sinister than that.

sounds to me that is what she is doing

still don't get the whole PR thing

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by SMP

Pretty good, actually. But some people just find it easier to give crappy excuses than to stand up to any expected heat for telling it as it is. "Sorry guys, I'm tired of this whole mess, even though I got myself into it. You can clean it up - I'm outta here!" People who make extravagant promises in order to be well thought of, frequently have to regret their Flapping Lip Syndrome and make excuses for the same reason, to be well thought of. TT's actions may be no more sinister than that.

Hey, now ... if You're going to go shining the logic light on this whole situation at least be kind enough to let me get a few miles out of it first, ok?

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by Nady

I've been living (for over 40 years) with a prime example of male pattern deafness~ If Jeanessa is enjoying the verbal fencing, more power to her~ she's the one that really has the facts, after all. He can't win against her~ eventually she'll get bored too~

Maybe she (Heidi) contacted Sam to write a book about how a bunch of ducks tried to *sue a housewife, teehee* ~ she can do an infomercial to sell it!
~~~N

Maybe with all the talk about movie rights and who plays whom and all - well, it could have given her ideas or maybe it turned up on a google search of book or script ideas.

[samredman]

jeanessa pondered:

Furthermore, Sam, your definition of intellectual property is a bit off, which is odd for an author. You are a writer, right? Then, you are well aware of copyrights and the implied intellectual property rights therein?

For example, the Atkins diet is intellectual property.

Yep, it's their intellectual property and they aren't selling me that when they sell me a book. Now, if the Atkins company tries to sell me the rights to the Atkins diet...that would be the sale of intellectual property (what's that worth $300 million?), but if the Atkins company sells me a copy of the book (or access to their website) that's not a sale of intellectual property (I don't get the rights to do anything, but sell my one copy or keep it). And, if I were to make copies of the Atkins book after I bought my one copy, well I would be violating their intellectual property rights (because they didn't sell those), but all of those examples are unrelated to a company selling me their book or access to their website, that merely is them offering published materials (irrespective of them being copyrighted) and my purchase of them does not mean I am buying the intellectual property. Hopefully, that clears up an understanding of the sale of the "real" property meaning when legal statutes reference an intellectual property purchase.

[Mayberryfan]

SMP wrote:

"erudition"

SMP ~ You been readin' again, ain't you?

[rebel]

Originally Posted by BamaGal

need some patterns???

I've got tons I can share with you---I've been crocheting since I was a wee tyke of 4...

bet you would like some of the quick and easy ones for the Q-hook

give your Mom a big hug and a lap robe




when I want to zone out--I'll work on a mindless bunch of caps or house shoes---best thing in the world to just forget for awhile...





I did a last supper one for my younger brother

I do alot of the Barbie Dolls in Southern Bell Dresses---

you have a pic of your wedding dress?? I bet it is gorgeous. I have made some summer type dresses and skirts for my nieces---and plenty of the Barbie wedding dresses and but I don't think I could even attempt a full size wedding dress

I'll try to post a picture of it when I get home. She also made all the bride's maid's baskets and baskets for my 3 nieces. She made a bride Barbie and the bride's maid Barbies. The Lord's Prayer is a huge picture that she and my dad framed. She was left-handed and had right-hand directions. She had to read the directions backwards to make them work.

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by SMP

In fact, Sam warned us that his major job right now is pot stirring on the Internet. He's nothing more than a contrarian who loves the sound of his own voice, (or words) and gets his jollies by exhibiting his dazzling erudition in numerous fields when exasperated responders make a few blunders. And they will, because they're angry. Sam isn't angry at all. He's sitting back chuckling as others make his day.

What can we learn from Sam? First off, he represents the kind of arguments Heidi's lawyers will use to try to have the case dismissed. In that case, debate unencumbered by righteous indignation may prove to be beneficial as it can sharpen our focus. Secondly, a lot of others will start off with his viewpoint that this is merely a ripple in the pond. Expect it, and dampen the emotions while you fire up the logical arguments.

But mostly, the main thing Sam can teach us after a few polite messages and facts back and forth is -

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!

If we want to ge technical, it doesn't much matter to "us" whether or not these are the tactics that Heidi's lawyers will use, other than the entertainment value, of course. John T is the one who will deal effective with those. In fact, has, as Heidi's lawyer has tried to have the case dismissed, to reverse the Writ of Attachment and so forth.

I really like Jo's observations.

Woof. Woof.

[TinaBina]

I haven't finished catching up yet, but this had me

My guess is that the Diaz site now is about as "normal" as the new South Beach site (it's amazingly similar.. looks like South Beach took some pointers from Kimkins on how to do an internet dieting community).