Why the fascination with Kimmer? #14

[Kisal]

Just wanted to pop in and say "hi" to all you ducks! I haven't been around much since the middle of January, but I've been keeping up with the thread as much as possible. As our dear Cleo once said, "I've been busier than a finger up a 5-year-old's nose!"

My kids came to visit from NYC (required 2 weeks of frantic housecleaning before they arrived!) Tonight, I made a batch of Kevin's Pita Bread dough, because I want to make his Spring Rolls to go with the roast duckling I'm having for my birthday dinner.

Now, I have to go mix up the Carbquik Cake and Cookie flour, so I can whip up a Chocolate Gooey Butter Cake in the morning, which will be my birthday cake. I also want to make Kevin's Duck Sauce, as well as some plum sauce, to go with the Spring Rolls.

I haven't spent this much time in the kitchen for years!

[Dallas]

I've been away for awhile, I just OD'd on Kimmer stuff and needed to step back from it all for awhile. I'm so glad to catch up a little and realize y'all have been keeping her feet to the fire. Thank you!
I've realized an at first unnoticed side effect to my time on Kimmer's diet. As background, I lost 43lbs but I've since gained back 12. I also spent about 4 months losing my hair. It's now filled back in and my shower drain is mostly clear. But what I've noticed lately is how being taken for a ride has impacted my attitude in general. I've more cynical in other areas of my life. I don't trust ANYBODY who professes to have my best interests in mind. Even less if I'm paying them. Maybe I was just very naive before and this is normal. But I liked me better when I was more trusting. Part of me wants her to pay dearly and part of me pities her. Not sympathy or empathy, but pity. (Webster's: A reason or cause of pity, grief, or regret; a thing to be regretted.) She's brought a lot of misery to herself and others. What a rotten way to live.

[happyladi]

Yes, Dr. Weil. And I remember the menus being NOTHING like the actual diet.

[Katinsac]

Happy Birthday, Kaisal and welcome back.

Dallas, Welcome and don't feel bad, you are not alone a lot of us have been there. That was a great weight loss though, and only 12 back on is good. Start Atkins and keep going. there are lots of threads on this site that can help you.

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by WildAngel6

Ok, WW responded to my email question about the retraction appearing IN the magazine.

Here's what they said ~

Yes, it will appear in the March 4th issue which will be available the week of the 25th of February.

That's a positive step, for sure! I just wish they had disavowed the diet itself, too.

[sherlynn9]

I just sent off my e-mail telling that that I hoped they mentioned the class action lawsuit based on her fraudulent representation of herself and her diet in their magazine (mention that due to the influx of members after their article, she was able to pay cash for a house and 2 cars).

Maybe if enough of us e-mail them along those lines, they will mention the lawsuit. And, if not, then how about bombarding them with letters to the editor after the apology is printed.

Sheryl

[v0xhumana]

But once again we're stuck with that whole two-edged sword of negative publicity (which is still good publicity). People are still going to want to know what all the fuss is about, and will again be driven to her website in droves.

Ugh. Wish the wheels of justice would turn just a little quicker...

[Barbara B]

Originally Posted by BamaGal

BB---the going over the contest entries is not why I'm pooped...that is a no biggie kinda thing--don't mind it a bit

I'm pooped because my iron level is in the toilet---from the WLS--I'll feel better tomorrow after my round of IV iron

How funny -- BB is what my family calls me. It's my nickname.

Sorry to hear about your iron level. I'm going through stuff also. I seem to bruise easily and right now have about 4 bruises, one of which is a real doozy and looks like somone punched me. Going to an Endo on Tuesday. Hope you feel better soon.

[Barbara B]

Originally Posted by Kisal

Just wanted to pop in and say "hi" to all you ducks! I haven't been around much since the middle of January, but I've been keeping up with the thread as much as possible. As our dear Cleo once said, "I've been busier than a finger up a 5-year-old's nose!"

My kids came to visit from NYC (required 2 weeks of frantic housecleaning before they arrived!) Tonight, I made a batch of Kevin's Pita Bread dough, because I want to make his Spring Rolls to go with the roast duckling I'm having for my birthday dinner.

Now, I have to go mix up the Carbquik Cake and Cookie flour, so I can whip up a Chocolate Gooey Butter Cake in the morning, which will be my birthday cake. I also want to make Kevin's Duck Sauce, as well as some plum sauce, to go with the Spring Rolls.

I haven't spent this much time in the kitchen for years!

[LChottie07]

Originally Posted by SMP

They changed the diet beyond recognition and raised it to 1200 calories. This is not the diet Christin followed, nor the one "Kim Drake" claimed to have developed. IOW, they CYA'd before publishing the article. Christin's story stands - WW is sorry only for not making sure Kim Drake was a svelte 118-lb person.

Actually, I still have a copy of the magazine and went back to check the menus provided. You are correct that this is NOT the menu that I followed. The most generous of the printed menus is actually a high end KK "friendly" menu, and after plugging in the numbers I found it to still be lacking nutritionally and calorically deficient. Also, the menu provided in the magazine had some of the same "modifications" that were added at the same time the new website went up which included a stick of string cheese or 1 cup LC yogurt to satisfy those who were crying about calcium deficiency. This didn't help me however, and still does not satisfy the need for more calories, fat, and vitamins from more veggies.

Example:

Breakfast: 2 Eggs, 1/4 cup Salsa, 3oz Lean Ham

Snack: 1 boiled egg

Lunch: 3 oz Lean turkey, 1 cup mixed baby spinach, 2 slices turkey bacon (optional) and 2 tbls light dressing

Dinner: 4 oz Chicken, 1 cup raw baby spinach, 1/2 cup veggies, 2 tbls light dressing

Totals: 803 calories, 37g fat, 18 total carbs, 95g protein

I appriciate WW printing this retraction, I only wish they would include my statement to them that I no longer endorse this WOE and apologize for my participation in the article. I'm not sure what nutritionist they had look at these numbers, but I think that if they had someone really REALLY take a look at it, they would not even say that. Maybe whoever it is needs to go talk to the dietician we had on M&J .

[cleochatra]

Originally Posted by Mayberryfan

Oh, and I believe our wonderful Cleo is now on record as saying that size doesn't matter.

[MissMerize]

Originally Posted by Dallas

I've been away for awhile, I just OD'd on Kimmer stuff and needed to step back from it all for awhile. I'm so glad to catch up a little and realize y'all have been keeping her feet to the fire. Thank you!
I've realized an at first unnoticed side effect to my time on Kimmer's diet. As background, I lost 43lbs but I've since gained back 12. I also spent about 4 months losing my hair. It's now filled back in and my shower drain is mostly clear. But what I've noticed lately is how being taken for a ride has impacted my attitude in general. I've more cynical in other areas of my life. I don't trust ANYBODY who professes to have my best interests in mind. Even less if I'm paying them. Maybe I was just very naive before and this is normal. But I liked me better when I was more trusting. Part of me wants her to pay dearly and part of me pities her. Not sympathy or empathy, but pity. (Webster's: A reason or cause of pity, grief, or regret; a thing to be regretted.) She's brought a lot of misery to herself and others. What a rotten way to live.

Deja vu
Spending time going through this, doing what I can to help expose the whole thing has probably been a really necessary therapy.
I too went through exactly what you have described here. Started with minor hair loss, and then it went on and on. It really wasn't until a few months after the diet that I really began to notice the severity of the side effects.

I am still beginning to heal over trust issues. I have also come to realize, wanting to do business on the web - there will always be a smidgen of uncertainty, but I will do my best to investigate as best I can. That is all I can do.

I have come across other people getting scammed on the web, but the difference was that it was just a financial scamming. When a thing affects your physical and mental health I think it is in a whole other category. Heidi came in like an odorless poisonous gas. She used pictures and words to describe herself as a breath of fresh air. It wasn't until we all inhaled it for a while that we got sick. We were lured into a false sense of security. We appeared to be getting healthier at first and that led us to inhale more and more of the noxious fumes. Fumes like these can change the brain chemistry.

I liked me better too when I was more trusting. We have been forced to go into some dark and scary areas. Wars that take place on the ground can be escaped. You can run off to a new town, state, or country. There is no escape for battles that take place in your head. You have to fight them all the way through. And even when they are over, they are not easily forgotten.

I questioned myself on a lot of things through this process. Why this happened to me at this point in my life - was it really necessary for me to go through this at all. I have decided that instead of shoving it all into a corner somewhere and running away from it that I needed to take all the pieces out and really look at them. I want to use as much as I can to make me feel stronger, and now I am beginning to use the acquired knowledge to feel empowered.

Will I get scammed again? It is possible, but less likely. And if it did happen again, I could be quicker to take action.

[gibster]

Originally Posted by LChottie07

Actually, I still have a copy of the magazine and went back to check the menus provided. You are correct that this is NOT the menu that I followed. The most generous of the printed menus is actually a high end KK "friendly" menu, and after plugging in the numbers I found it to still be lacking nutritionally and calorically deficient. Also, the menu provided in the magazine had some of the same "modifications" that were added at the same time the new website went up which included a stick of string cheese or 1 cup LC yogurt to satisfy those who were crying about calcium deficiency. This didn't help me however, and still does not satisfy the need for more calories, fat, and vitamins from more veggies.

Example:

Breakfast: 2 Eggs, 1/4 cup Salsa, 3oz Lean Ham

Snack: 1 boiled egg

Lunch: 3 oz Lean turkey, 1 cup mixed baby spinach, 2 slices turkey bacon (optional) and 2 tbls light dressing

Dinner: 4 oz Chicken, 1 cup raw baby spinach, 1/2 cup veggies, 2 tbls light dressing

Totals: 803 calories, 37g fat, 18 total carbs, 95g protein

I appriciate WW printing this retraction, I only wish they would include my statement to them that I no longer endorse this WOE and apologize for my participation in the article. I'm not sure what nutritionist they had look at these numbers, but I think that if they had someone really REALLY take a look at it, they would not even say that. Maybe whoever it is needs to go talk to the dietician we had on M&J .

Exactly! When I joined, the website suggested egg whites - not eggs; salad spritzers - not light dressing; etc. This menu would be way too high in fat for Kimmer.

[OhYeahBabe]

Originally Posted by MissMerize

Deja vu
Spending time going through this, doing what I can to help expose the whole thing has probably been a really necessary therapy.
I too went through exactly what you have described here. Started with minor hair loss, and then it went on and on. It really wasn't until a few months after the diet that I really began to notice the severity of the side effects.

I am still beginning to heal over trust issues. I have also come to realize, wanting to do business on the web - there will always be a smidgen of uncertainty, but I will do my best to investigate as best I can. That is all I can do.

I have come across other people getting scammed on the web, but the difference was that it was just a financial scamming. When a thing affects your physical and mental health I think it is in a whole other category. Heidi came in like an odorless poisonous gas. She used pictures and words to describe herself as a breath of fresh air. It wasn't until we all inhaled it for a while that we got sick. We were lured into a false sense of security. We appeared to be getting healthier at first and that led us to inhale more and more of the noxious fumes. Fumes like these can change the brain chemistry.

I liked me better too when I was more trusting. We have been forced to go into some dark and scary areas. Wars that take place on the ground can be escaped. You can run off to a new town, state, or country. There is no escape for battles that take place in your head. You have to fight them all the way through. And even when they are over, they are not easily forgotten.

I questioned myself on a lot of things through this process. Why this happened to me at this point in my life - was it really necessary for me to go through this at all. I have decided that instead of shoving it all into a corner somewhere and running away from it that I needed to take all the pieces out and really look at them. I want to use as much as I can to make me feel stronger, and now I am beginning to use the acquired knowledge to feel empowered.

Will I get scammed again? It is possible, but less likely. And if it did happen again, I could be quicker to take action.

Wow, that was a powerful post!

[susique333]

Sticking my head in to say hello! Had to read about a zillion pages to get caught up. Daughter got married finally, thats 3 of my kids weddings in less than a year, i think I deserve a medal for not losing my mind. Glad to see everyone still plugging away! Happy belated Valentines Day!

[SMP]

[quote=MissMerize;9944812]

I am still beginning to heal over trust issues. I have also come to realize, wanting to do business on the web - there will always be a smidgen of uncertainty, but I will do my best to investigate as best I can. That is all I can do.
...
I liked me better too when I was more trusting. We have been forced to go into some dark and scary areas. Wars that take place on the ground can be escaped. You can run off to a new town, state, or country. There is no escape for battles that take place in your head. You have to fight them all the way through. And even when they are over, they are not easily forgotten.

I questioned myself on a lot of things through this process. Why this happened to me at this point in my life - was it really necessary for me to go through this at all. I have decided that instead of shoving it all into a corner somewhere and running away from it that I needed to take all the pieces out and really look at them. I want to use as much as I can to make me feel stronger, and now I am beginning to use the acquired knowledge to feel empowered.

Will I get scammed again? It is possible, but less likely. And if it did happen again, I could be quicker to take action.

How do you regain trust? In my case, part consisted of examining people to see if they were trustworthy. Many are trustworthy in some areas, untrustworthy in others, and knowing how far to trust them is valuable knowledge. For instance, I've heard said about a chap that you could trust him with your life - but not your wife. Or he was honest as the day is long, but don't offer him any booze. You get the idea!
But doing business on the Net is a lot different. We are forced to accept other people's validations (Kimmer sure had/has her share of supporters). But healthy scepticism comes into play as well. The older you get, the healthier your scepticism. And if you've made a hobby out of nutrition, as I have, a bogus diet flies the red flags on just reading a sample.
So knowledge of the subject matter is a protection from some scammers. And paying invoices over the Net becomes less worrisome when using Paypal or
a single use credit card number. In fact, taking steps to protect your cash at all times and doing business with well-established companies might weed out a lot of frauds and fly-by-nighters no matter what they're selling. But this day and age, it's getting harder to trust anyone - in politics, in business, in religion. If you can't trust them, learn enough to trust yourself .

[2big4mysize]

Originally Posted by LChottie07

Actually, I still have a copy of the magazine and went back to check the menus provided. You are correct that this is NOT the menu that I followed. The most generous of the printed menus is actually a high end KK "friendly" menu, and after plugging in the numbers I found it to still be lacking nutritionally and calorically deficient. Also, the menu provided in the magazine had some of the same "modifications" that were added at the same time the new website went up which included a stick of string cheese or 1 cup LC yogurt to satisfy those who were crying about calcium deficiency. This didn't help me however, and still does not satisfy the need for more calories, fat, and vitamins from more veggies.

Example:

Breakfast: 2 Eggs, 1/4 cup Salsa, 3oz Lean Ham

Snack: 1 boiled egg

Lunch: 3 oz Lean turkey, 1 cup mixed baby spinach, 2 slices turkey bacon (optional) and 2 tbls light dressing

Dinner: 4 oz Chicken, 1 cup raw baby spinach, 1/2 cup veggies, 2 tbls light dressing

Totals: 803 calories, 37g fat, 18 total carbs, 95g protein

I appriciate WW printing this retraction, I only wish they would include my statement to them that I no longer endorse this WOE and apologize for my participation in the article. I'm not sure what nutritionist they had look at these numbers, but I think that if they had someone really REALLY take a look at it, they would not even say that. Maybe whoever it is needs to go talk to the dietician we had on M&J .

ME too BUT
actually if we read their apology AND the advice their nutrtionist gave in that article they are not talking about nutrtional advice for the kimkins plan.

See they are sneaky.

[Barbara B]

Originally Posted by MissMerize

Deja vu
Spending time going through this, doing what I can to help expose the whole thing has probably been a really necessary therapy.
I too went through exactly what you have described here. Started with minor hair loss, and then it went on and on. It really wasn't until a few months after the diet that I really began to notice the severity of the side effects.

I am still beginning to heal over trust issues. I have also come to realize, wanting to do business on the web - there will always be a smidgen of uncertainty, but I will do my best to investigate as best I can. That is all I can do.

I have come across other people getting scammed on the web, but the difference was that it was just a financial scamming. When a thing affects your physical and mental health I think it is in a whole other category. Heidi came in like an odorless poisonous gas. She used pictures and words to describe herself as a breath of fresh air. It wasn't until we all inhaled it for a while that we got sick. We were lured into a false sense of security. We appeared to be getting healthier at first and that led us to inhale more and more of the noxious fumes. Fumes like these can change the brain chemistry.

I liked me better too when I was more trusting. We have been forced to go into some dark and scary areas. Wars that take place on the ground can be escaped. You can run off to a new town, state, or country. There is no escape for battles that take place in your head. You have to fight them all the way through. And even when they are over, they are not easily forgotten.

I questioned myself on a lot of things through this process. Why this happened to me at this point in my life - was it really necessary for me to go through this at all. I have decided that instead of shoving it all into a corner somewhere and running away from it that I needed to take all the pieces out and really look at them. I want to use as much as I can to make me feel stronger, and now I am beginning to use the acquired knowledge to feel empowered.

Will I get scammed again? It is possible, but less likely. And if it did happen again, I could be quicker to take action.

I'm sure that was a tough post, but it was very powerful. Thank you.

[Mayberryfan]

Barbara B..

LOVE the judge duck!

[LChottie07]

Originally Posted by 2big4mysize

ME too BUT
actually if we read their apology AND the advice their nutrtionist gave in that article they are not talking about nutrtional advice for the kimkins plan.

See they are sneaky.

Ok it appears that they are not quoting what was originally stated in the article. Per WW apology:

Though the article appeared several months ago, in our June 12, 2007 issue, and nutritionists assure us the diet information we provided was accurate, we deeply regret having shared with you a story we can’t stand behind.

This is what appeared in the article as an "endorsement."

Low-Carb expert Fred Pescatore, M.D., author of The Hampton's Diet, also notes that Kimkins steers dieters away from high-calorie low-carb foods including oil, nuts, and fatty meat. Reason? "On regular Atkins, you can easily eat over 3,000 calories a day if you're not good about stopping when you're full," Drake [COLOR="Red"](Heidi!)[/COLOR] explains. "That's too many calories to get to a healthy weight."

Another key: Avoiding low-carb foods sweetened with "sugar alcohols." Drake [COLOR="red"](Heidi)[/COLOR] is convinced they slow results; Dr. Pescatore agrees. "Low-carb companies say we don't have to count sugar alcohols because our bodies don't treat them like carbs," says Drake [COLOR="red"](Heidi)[/COLOR]. "But when you're eating a lot of sugar alcohols, you stop losing weight as fast as you should."

One thing I noticed right off here is that the quotes are not from Dr Pescatore, but from Heidi. After looking more in depth at The Hampton's Diet... they are not similar at all because Hampton's emphasises geting lots of "good" oils such as olive oil and macadamia nut oil... very similar to the Mediterranean Diet. I would wager that Dr Pescatore was only given a brief synopsis of the diet by WW and then just agreed comparitively to his own diet program. I would also be willing to wager that he is unaware of the controversy swirling around this article which he is quoted in and would possibly even be willing to say something of his own in retraction of his association with the diet. Ducks? Another contact in order maybe??

It would probably behoove WW to have their nutritionists that they say are approving the program take a better look at it before they go and continue to send people to look at the diet. Like you guys said... negative publicity....


ETA: MissMerize - I totally agree, and empathize. (HUG)

[Katinsac]

I have come across other people getting scammed on the web, but the difference was that it was just a financial scamming. When a thing affects your physical and mental health I think it is in a whole other category. Heidi came in like an odorless poisonous gas. She used pictures and words to describe herself as a breath of fresh air. It wasn't until we all inhaled it for a while that we got sick. We were lured into a false sense of security. We appeared to be getting healthier at first and that led us to inhale more and more of the noxious fumes. Fumes like these can change the brain chemistry.

wow..what a great way of putting it!! Loved it!!

[Katinsac]

christin..nice to see you...how's the eye doing?

[Mayberryfan]

Just sent the following message to the WW contact. Please, if you have time, send them your thoughts. It can't hurt! They need to understand just how badly they've run "a-fowl" of the ducks!

Us ------> [COLOR="LemonChiffon"]...........[/COLOR] <-------them

Many things come to mind reading your apology for the Kimkins diet story. Chiefly, that it is far too little and far too late. Seriously, do you have any journalistic ethics at all? You state that the diet's founder is "Kim Drake" which, as you must know is nothing but one of Heidi Diaz' aliases. Why not print the full truth? Have you got an allergy to the truth or something?

It is also my understanding that you plan to write a story and publish it about the fraud that is Kimkins. Will it be a splashy cover-story like the original? Will you re-interview Christin, Deni, etc.? Will you obtain permission to print pictures taken in public of the real Heidi Diaz? As a former professional journalist, I can assure you anything less is completely unacceptable. I realize the reality is that retractions rarely, if ever, match the prominence of the original story.

Do the right thing for once and see that the retraction is just as splashy as the original story. It's a much more compelling story. You would be doing your magazine a favor and getting a healthy, much needed dose of credibility.

And, frankly, your writers and editors are long over due to eat crow on this one. Don't worry. Crow is low-carb.

Very sincerely,
Celeste XXXXX(former regular buyer of your magazines until 8/07).

[Katinsac]

Good Job! Mayberry...at least you set them straight!! lol

[Mayberryfan]

Oh, I dunno, Kat. Lots of un-straight people in the media!

[Katinsac]

Yes, and like Heidi...all they care about is the bottom line $$$. We all know retractions are this ity-bity byline, somewhere, in the mag or paper that you basically don't even notice half the time...let's hope they think twice this time and add a little more that the website stuff.

[Barbara B]

Originally Posted by Mayberryfan

Barbara B..

LOVE the judge duck!

Tee Hee, I fell in love with him at first sight.

[WildAngel6]

Woman’s World apologizes for promoting Kimkins (CalorieLab Calorie Counter News)

Woman’s World magazine, the magazine that promoted the Kimkins Diet in a June 12, 2007, article that brought the diet to the attention of millions, has apologized for the article, which it says contained “inaccurate information” given to it by the founder of the Kimkins website.

Just in case you haven’t been keeping up with the Kimkins plan legal drama, here’s a quick recap of what’s happened this year.

Last month the defendants in the Kimkins scam case amended their complaint to eliminate allegations that the diet caused health problems, instead insisting that Heidi Diaz, aka Kimmer, who started the Kimkins diet, knew that it hadn’t been medically verified that the diet was safe.

Specific medical claims had to be removed in order for the complaint to be filed as a class action, because different health problems were reported by different people, making it impossible to prove those problems across the whole class of plaintiffs.

On January 7, Heidi Diaz filed a declaration related to the writ of attachment filed by former Kimkins members against Diaz’s PayPal account and a Citibank credit card.

In the declaration, Diaz said the writ has caused severe hardship to her family and disrupted her ability to earn income or support the current Kimkins members. She said her assets have been frozen, leaving her unable to make repairs on a home she recently purchased, refill prescriptions or pay her taxes.

It’s that part about prescriptions that is the most interesting, because she says she needs to be able to visit the doctor for treatment of diabetes, which is “newly diagnosed and not stabilized.” She also says her doctors expect her to need insulin therapy.

Being locked out of her PayPal account has significantly impeded her business, she says, since the Kimkins diet site is set up to accept payments through PayPal. Her substitute credit card processing system charges much higher fees, which has resulted in a price increase.

Diaz says the lack of funds has “irreparably damaged the overall business” and made it impossible for her to buy advertising for the “January weight loss season.” She also says that some of the money in the PayPal account was earmarked to go to user refunds, which is now impossible since she does not have access to the money.

[2big4mysize]

Please accept our apology
We at Woman’s World pride ourselves on finding inspiring diet successes to share with our readers every week. That’s why we were so distressed to learn that Kim Drake, the founder of Kimkins.com, gave us inaccurate information about herself and her weight loss. Though the article appeared several months ago, in our June 12, 2007 issue, and nutritionists assure us the diet information we provided was accurate, we deeply regret having shared with you a story we can’t stand behind. Your trust means everything to us, and we want to bring you the very best magazine we can, each and every week.

See thier apology only says nutrtionists assure us the diet information we provided was accurate.

exactly what diet information did they provide? as Christin pointed out

1)they provided a sample menu which will match the revised Kimkins plan
2)they quoted Kimmer and Dr P about sugar alcohols and net effective carbs.
3)they quoteds them both about Atkins allowing higher fat foods.
It doesn't say anything about the kimkins diet being good nor bad.

so actually that information is correct and that is all the apology says. Sorry we didn't verify her but we gave accurate diet info.
too bad the apology doesn't as mayberry said cover the scam and the dangers of the actual Kimkins diet.


and woo hoo Mayberry

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by Mayberryfan

Just sent the following message to the WW contact. Please, if you have time, send them your thoughts. It can't hurt! They need to understand just how badly they've run "a-fowl" of the ducks!

Us ------> [COLOR="LemonChiffon"]...........[/COLOR] <-------them

Very, very nice, Mayberry Fan! Articulate and to the point.

Now to see if they are capable of getting it ...