Why the fascination with Kimmer? #13

[Pam in TX]

Originally Posted by LoraJR72

Bama, I love your Mardi Gras duck avatars. Where did you find them? I want to find those sites and buy those ducks as gifts! (My co-worker got a King Cake last year from her niece in Louisiana. Very tasty and highly fattening! I don't think anyone found the baby Jesus.)

check out celebriducks dot com

[mrsmenopausal]

Consumeraffairs.com has complaints up! Consumer complaints about Kimkins

[BamaGal]

Are you interested in seeing even more media attention focused on the Kimkins Scam???

Then todays challenge is for you!!!

Take Down Kimkins Contest–Day 21






Each Call For Action office is associated with a local broadcast station that provides working space, supplies, and over-the-air promotion of CFA services. This cooperation strengthens our connection to the community, and gives our volunteers clout when working on consumers’ behalf. Information collected by CFA on trends and new frauds affecting consumers is used by our broadcaster partners to prepare news reports.


You can fill out the online complaint or even call the local offices or national hotline. Are there things you want addressed by the media?? Are there issues you feel have been overlooked?? Then let your voice be heard today.

[rebel]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

Here's how she gets people sucked in ... it is sentiments like this, posted on KK ...

"I am so speechless when you post "ILY" and I feel loved by you!"

She makes people feel special and noticed. Many of them haven't felt that for some time. Too bad it is all a sham to further her own agenda.

Mom - You are exactly right that she makes them feel special, like they are "friends," and sharing one on one -- kind of like a host on a tv shopping network. What really gets me is if we are reading this thing right, she never lost her weight even with WLS. I could "understand" taking advice from her if she had ever had any success with her own program.

[Sweeteater]

Originally Posted by mrsmenopausal

Consumeraffairs.com has complaints up! Consumer complaints about Kimkins

good job!

[BamaGal]

I have always said that Kimkins is a cult plain and simple.

Heidi is a master manipulator. She uses covert aggressive tactics to lure people in. Read these and see if you don't agree.

Let’s take a look at the principal tactics covert-aggressive personalities use to ensure they get their way and maintain a position of power over their victims:

Denial – This is when the aggressor refuses to admit that they’ve done something harmful or hurtful when they clearly have. It’s a way they lie (to themselves as well as to others) about their aggressive intentions. This “Who… Me?” tactic is a way of “playing innocent,” and invites the victim to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior.
Selective Inattention – This tactic is similar to and sometimes mistaken for denial It’s when the aggressor “plays dumb,” or acts oblivious. When engaging in this tactic, the aggressor actively ignores the warnings, pleas or wishes of others, and in general, refuses to pay attention to everything and anything that might distract them from pursuing their own agenda. Often, the aggressor knows full well what you want from him when he starts to exhibit this “I don’t want to hear it!” behavior. By using this tactic, the aggressor actively resists submitting himself to the tasks of paying attention to or refraining from the behavior you want him to change.
Rationalization – A rationalization is the excuse an aggressor tries to offer for engaging in an inappropriate or harmful behavior. It can be an effective tactic, especially when the explanation or justification the aggressor offers makes just enough sense that any reasonably conscientious person is likely to fall for it. It’s a powerful tactic because it not only serves to remove any internal resistance the aggressor might have about doing what he wants to do (quieting any qualms of conscience he might have) but also to keep others off his back. If the aggressor can convince you he’s justified in whatever he’s doing, then he’s freer to pursue his goals without interference.
Diversion – A moving target is hard to hit. When we try to pin a manipulator down or try to keep a discussion focused on a single issue or behavior we don’t like, he’s expert at knowing how to change the subject, dodge the issue or in some way throw us a curve. Manipulators use distraction and diversion techniques to keep the focus off their behavior, move us off-track, and keep themselves free to promote their self-serving hidden agendas.
Lying – It’s often hard to tell when a person is lying at the time he’s doing it. Fortunately, there are times when the truth will out because circumstances don’t bear out somebody’s story. But there are also times when you don’t know you’ve been deceived until it’s too late. One way to minimize the chances that someone will put one over on you is to remember that because aggressive personalities of all types will generally stop at nothing to get what they want, you can expect them to lie and cheat. Another thing to remember is that manipulators – covert-aggressive personalities that they are – are prone to lie in subtle, covert ways. Courts are well aware of the many ways that people lie, as they require that court oaths charge that testifiers tell “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” Manipulators often lie by withholding a significant amount of the truth from you or by distorting the truth. They are adept at being vague when you ask them direct questions. This is an especially slick way of lying’ omission. Keep this in mind when dealing with a suspected wolf in sheep’s clothing. Always seek and obtain specific, confirmable information.
Covert Intimidation – Aggressors frequently threaten their victims to keep them anxious, apprehensive and in a one-down position. Covert-aggressives intimidate their victims by making veiled (subtle, indirect or implied) threats. Guilt-tripping and shaming are two of the covert-aggressive’s favourite weapons. Both are special intimidation tactics.
Guilt-tripping – One thing that aggressive personalities know well is that other types of persons have very different consciences than they do. Manipulators are often skilled at using what they know to be the greater conscientiousness of their victims as a means of keeping them in a self-doubting, anxious, and submissive position. The more conscientious the potential victim, the more effective guilt is as a weapon. Aggressive personalities of all types use guilt-tripping so frequently and effectively as a manipulative tactic, that I believe it illustrates how fundamentally different in character they are compared to other (especially neurotic) personalities. All a manipulator has to do is suggest to the conscientious person that they don’t care enough, are too selfish, etc., and that person immediately starts to feel bad. On the contrary, a conscientious person might try until they’re blue in the face to get a manipulator (or any other aggressive personality) to feel badly about a hurtful behavior, acknowledge responsibility, or admit wrongdoing, to absolutely no avail.
Shaming – This is the technique of using subtle sarcasm and put-downs as a means of increasing fear and self-doubt in others. Covert-aggressives use this tactic to make others feel inadequate or unworthy, and therefore, defer to them. It’s an effective way to foster a continued sense of personal inadequacy in the weaker party, thereby allowing an aggressor to maintain a position of dominance.
Playing the Victim Role – This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstances or someone else’s behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that covert-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and less hostile personalities usually can’t stand to see anyone suffering. Therefore, the tactic is simple. Convince your victim you’re suffering in some way, and they’ll try to relieve your distress.
Vilifying the Victim – This tactic is frequently used in conjunction with the tactic of playing the victim role. The aggressor uses this tactic to make it appear he is only responding (i.e. defending himself against) aggression on the part of the victim. It enables the aggressor to better put the victim on the defensive
Playing the Servant Role – Covert-aggressives use this tactic to cloak their self-serving agendas in the guise of service to a more noble cause. It’s a common tactic but difficult to recognize. By pretending to be working hard on someone else’s behalf, covert-aggressives conceal their own ambition, desire for power, and quest for a position of dominance over others.
Seduction – Covert-aggressive personalities are adept at charming, praising, flattering or overtly supporting others in order to get them to lower their defenses and surrender their trust and loyalty. Covert-aggressives are also particularly aware that people who are to some extent emotionally needy and dependent (and that includes most people who aren’t character-disordered) want approval, reassurance, and a sense of being valued and needed more than anything. Appearing to be attentive to these needs can be a manipulator’s ticket to incredible power over others.
Projecting the blame (blaming others) – Aggressive personalities are always looking for a way to shift the blame for their aggressive behavior. Covert-aggressives are not only skilled at finding scapegoats, they’re expert at doing so in subtle, hard to detect ways.
Minimization – This tactic is a unique kind of denial coupled with rationalization. When using this maneuver, the aggressor is attempting to assert that his abusive behavior isn’t really as harmful or irresponsible as someone else may be claiming. It’s the aggressor’s attempt to make a molehill out of a mountain.

Can you say…..HEIDI!!!

[mrsmenopausal]

!

Originally Posted by BamaGal

I have always said that Kimkins is a cult plain and simple.

Heidi is a master manipulator. She uses covert aggressive tactics to lure people in. Read these and see if you don't agree.

Let’s take a look at the principal tactics covert-aggressive personalities use to ensure they get their way and maintain a position of power over their victims:

Denial – This is when the aggressor refuses to admit that they’ve done something harmful or hurtful when they clearly have. It’s a way they lie (to themselves as well as to others) about their aggressive intentions. This “Who… Me?” tactic is a way of “playing innocent,” and invites the victim to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior.
Selective Inattention – This tactic is similar to and sometimes mistaken for denial It’s when the aggressor “plays dumb,” or acts oblivious. When engaging in this tactic, the aggressor actively ignores the warnings, pleas or wishes of others, and in general, refuses to pay attention to everything and anything that might distract them from pursuing their own agenda. Often, the aggressor knows full well what you want from him when he starts to exhibit this “I don’t want to hear it!” behavior. By using this tactic, the aggressor actively resists submitting himself to the tasks of paying attention to or refraining from the behavior you want him to change.
Rationalization – A rationalization is the excuse an aggressor tries to offer for engaging in an inappropriate or harmful behavior. It can be an effective tactic, especially when the explanation or justification the aggressor offers makes just enough sense that any reasonably conscientious person is likely to fall for it. It’s a powerful tactic because it not only serves to remove any internal resistance the aggressor might have about doing what he wants to do (quieting any qualms of conscience he might have) but also to keep others off his back. If the aggressor can convince you he’s justified in whatever he’s doing, then he’s freer to pursue his goals without interference.
Diversion – A moving target is hard to hit. When we try to pin a manipulator down or try to keep a discussion focused on a single issue or behavior we don’t like, he’s expert at knowing how to change the subject, dodge the issue or in some way throw us a curve. Manipulators use distraction and diversion techniques to keep the focus off their behavior, move us off-track, and keep themselves free to promote their self-serving hidden agendas.
Lying – It’s often hard to tell when a person is lying at the time he’s doing it. Fortunately, there are times when the truth will out because circumstances don’t bear out somebody’s story. But there are also times when you don’t know you’ve been deceived until it’s too late. One way to minimize the chances that someone will put one over on you is to remember that because aggressive personalities of all types will generally stop at nothing to get what they want, you can expect them to lie and cheat. Another thing to remember is that manipulators – covert-aggressive personalities that they are – are prone to lie in subtle, covert ways. Courts are well aware of the many ways that people lie, as they require that court oaths charge that testifiers tell “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” Manipulators often lie by withholding a significant amount of the truth from you or by distorting the truth. They are adept at being vague when you ask them direct questions. This is an especially slick way of lying’ omission. Keep this in mind when dealing with a suspected wolf in sheep’s clothing. Always seek and obtain specific, confirmable information.
Covert Intimidation – Aggressors frequently threaten their victims to keep them anxious, apprehensive and in a one-down position. Covert-aggressives intimidate their victims by making veiled (subtle, indirect or implied) threats. Guilt-tripping and shaming are two of the covert-aggressive’s favourite weapons. Both are special intimidation tactics.
Guilt-tripping – One thing that aggressive personalities know well is that other types of persons have very different consciences than they do. Manipulators are often skilled at using what they know to be the greater conscientiousness of their victims as a means of keeping them in a self-doubting, anxious, and submissive position. The more conscientious the potential victim, the more effective guilt is as a weapon. Aggressive personalities of all types use guilt-tripping so frequently and effectively as a manipulative tactic, that I believe it illustrates how fundamentally different in character they are compared to other (especially neurotic) personalities. All a manipulator has to do is suggest to the conscientious person that they don’t care enough, are too selfish, etc., and that person immediately starts to feel bad. On the contrary, a conscientious person might try until they’re blue in the face to get a manipulator (or any other aggressive personality) to feel badly about a hurtful behavior, acknowledge responsibility, or admit wrongdoing, to absolutely no avail.
Shaming – This is the technique of using subtle sarcasm and put-downs as a means of increasing fear and self-doubt in others. Covert-aggressives use this tactic to make others feel inadequate or unworthy, and therefore, defer to them. It’s an effective way to foster a continued sense of personal inadequacy in the weaker party, thereby allowing an aggressor to maintain a position of dominance.
Playing the Victim Role – This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstances or someone else’s behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that covert-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and less hostile personalities usually can’t stand to see anyone suffering. Therefore, the tactic is simple. Convince your victim you’re suffering in some way, and they’ll try to relieve your distress.
Vilifying the Victim – This tactic is frequently used in conjunction with the tactic of playing the victim role. The aggressor uses this tactic to make it appear he is only responding (i.e. defending himself against) aggression on the part of the victim. It enables the aggressor to better put the victim on the defensive
Playing the Servant Role – Covert-aggressives use this tactic to cloak their self-serving agendas in the guise of service to a more noble cause. It’s a common tactic but difficult to recognize. By pretending to be working hard on someone else’s behalf, covert-aggressives conceal their own ambition, desire for power, and quest for a position of dominance over others.
Seduction – Covert-aggressive personalities are adept at charming, praising, flattering or overtly supporting others in order to get them to lower their defenses and surrender their trust and loyalty. Covert-aggressives are also particularly aware that people who are to some extent emotionally needy and dependent (and that includes most people who aren’t character-disordered) want approval, reassurance, and a sense of being valued and needed more than anything. Appearing to be attentive to these needs can be a manipulator’s ticket to incredible power over others.
Projecting the blame (blaming others) – Aggressive personalities are always looking for a way to shift the blame for their aggressive behavior. Covert-aggressives are not only skilled at finding scapegoats, they’re expert at doing so in subtle, hard to detect ways.
Minimization – This tactic is a unique kind of denial coupled with rationalization. When using this maneuver, the aggressor is attempting to assert that his abusive behavior isn’t really as harmful or irresponsible as someone else may be claiming. It’s the aggressor’s attempt to make a molehill out of a mountain.

Can you say…..HEIDI!!!

WOWWOWWOW!!!!!

[v0xhumana]

From the DSM IV:
301.81 Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Narcissistic Personality Disorder



Category


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personality Disorders



Etiology


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like most personality disorders, there are many factors that may contribute to the development of symptoms. Because the symptoms are long lasting, the idea that symptoms begin to emerge in childhood or at least adolescence is well accepted. The negative consequences of such symptoms, however, may not show themselves until adulthood.



Symptoms


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder revolve around a pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and sense of entitlement. Often individuals feel overly important and will exaggerate achievements and will accept, and often demand, praise and admiration despite worthy achievements. They may be overwhelmed with fantasies involving unlimited success, power, love, or beauty and feel that they can only be understood by others who are, like them, superior in some aspect of life.



There is a sense of entitlement, of being more deserving than others based solely on their superiority. These symptoms, however, are a result of an underlying sense of inferiority and are often seen as overcompensation. Because of this, they are often envious and even angry of others who have more, receive more respect or attention, or otherwise steal away the spotlight.



Treatment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Treatment for this disorder is very rarely sought. There is a limited amount of insight into the symptoms, and the negative consequences are often blamed on society. In this sense, treatment options are limited. Some research has found long term insight oriented therapy to be effective, but getting the individual to commit to this treatment is a major obstacle.



Prognosis


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prognosis is limited and based mainly on the individual's ability to recognize their underlying inferiority and decreased sense of self worth. With insight and long term therapy, the symptoms can be reduced in both number and intensity.

[v0xhumana]

Still waiting patiently to hear from John T. Anyone heard anything as of today?

[LoraJR72]

Originally Posted by Pam in TX

check out celebriducks dot com

Thank you!

[BamaGal]

Originally Posted by v0xhumana

Still waiting patiently to hear from John T. Anyone heard anything as of today?

Me too....

haven't heard anything....the suspense is mind boggling.....

[Katinsac]

bama..today should be Take Down 22....I see you posted here as Day 21. I will do my thing! lol thanks

[LINC]

Originally Posted by anipomoni

I also think that a lot of us overweight people are ashamed and sensitive, especially when it comes to food issues. Then you have Heidi (skinny, beautiful, succesful Heidi) "helping" you in her patronizing, passive aggressive way. I am sure a lot of people were too self conscious to question her. Who wants to question the woman who actually did it succesfully and founded the diet? She fed off that weakness.

I understand that. But that was before. She sat there bragging about her size 6 outfits and how much happier she was being thin. She accepted Jimmy's compliments about how great she looked. Called herself a MILF. When she was lying about how she really looked and how much weight she had lost, I can (almost) understand why people might have been afraid to question her or may have taken her word as gospel. She was a success. She was proof that the plan worked.

But now? She's no different than anyone else on her site. As a matter of fact, she's not even close to being the reigning queen of weight loss there - there are a lot of people who have been more successful than she's been. She's obese, she struggles with cheating, she's unhealthy and diabetic, AND she's a proven liar. Hasn't she changed her tune? How can she still be condescending and passive aggressive in her responses to people who, it is now known, are facing exactly the same struggles she faces? I've seen some of her posts from over there, and, instead of always being the expert (and we all know she's not) she's often looking to other people for advice.

I don't understand why people NOW are still looking up to her. I don't understand why anyone would go to her site, see her obese image on the front of her website and say. "Yeah, I want to do what she's done." She's accomplished nothing other than getting away with lies long enough to collect a huge amount of money. Heidi's only success has been in scamming people. Are they going there because of other people's success stories? If so, most of those people aren't on the site any longer. There's really nobody there who can offer up a "real" success story like Deni or Christian. Why are they listening to anything Heidi has to say? It's like me calling up someone who's in jail for impersonating a doctor and asking him for medical advice. It makes no sense to me.

Does anyone understand why people are still looking to her for advice?

Lou

[Larcana]

Linc,
I think it's because they're scared deparate and had some weight loss, transiently, and want more...cult phenomena and very low self esteem...they've developed an ED and want more anorexia euphoria.
I don't understand it either.
Lauren

[Katinsac]

Lou, now she's playing the victim role...gained due to stress and diabetes, etc. She is now asking them what they are doing and making them feel even more part of the success. Blames her not being able to lose on her meds and "being a nice person" (yeah, right!). She still draws them in by asking them how to do it with health problems, etc. Remember how many said they were there because of the support? Well, Kimmer needs support too and they are eating it up now. There are a few there who have lost (Gary over 100 lbs and is an Admin). SL is playing the victim also as she messed up over the holidays but is back on track and we can do this!! So many are newbies and see the quick weight loss in the beginning that encourages them to keep going until 3 months down the line when they have a problem (hair loss, etc.) but remember, they still justify that stuff to them. It is just so sad so many people are so desperate to lose that they cannot see the danger in what they are doing to themselves.

[2big4mysize]

Originally Posted by rebel

Magicsmom - I can understand how we fell victim to her, but what I can't understand is the people who know she's a fraud and they are still hanging on her every word. They are still asking her for advice. Can anybody tell me WHY???!!!!

Rebel I got a "defender" in my blog comments that swears we are lying about Heidi's cut the fats advice cause Kimmer has personally never told her to do so. Of course this person was doing Atkins and lost a boat load of weight doing her Atkins so why she would even ask Kimmer about cutting ehr fats is beyond me.

[Locarb4me]

Originally Posted by Magicsmom

There are so many factors to this. First of all, we really believed that Heidi had lost 200 pounds. We really believed she was gorgeous, and we really believed she knew what she was talking about. I think she capitalizes on our fast food mindset - the mindset that makes you want to use the microwave is the mindset that tells you it's better to lose your weight in 6 months than to take a year doing it. You beg her to review your Fitday to see if you're doing it right, and you really want to please her.

The brave ones ask her if it's o.k. to have hot wings. Heidi tells you in her condescending way that you can go ahead and eat those wings if you don't mind that it will take you longer to get to your goal. After all, they are just full of fat, and let's not even talk about the bleu cheese dressing you intend to dip them in. She has a power over people that is very hard to explain to people who have not experienced it. The last thing you want to hear is for her to say that you don't want it badly enough, because you know you do. When you stall, and we all do, you ask her to tell you what to do. Keep in mind that you really believe she already accomplished what you want to accomplish and you believe that if you follow her advice, you will have success. Her advice always is for you to cut your calories more; you're still eating too much, are you measuring that lettuce, are you sure it was only four ounces of steak, are you using your salad spritzer instead of that evil fatty bleu cheese dressing??? After all, this is THE woman talking to you, she has really DONE this thing, and this is what you want more than anything.

With perfect hindsight, we can look at this and see the absurdity of it. That's because NOW we know she didn't do it. I am sure she laughed the evil cackle when she berated people for not wanting it badly enough because they put butter on their broccoli and raked them over the coals for being weak as she brushed the sugar cookie sprinkles off her keyboard.

This is the reason that some of us are such zealots about exposing this woman and trying to take her down. We take it personally to know that during the suffering we endured, she was slamming down Cap'n and diet Coke, munching on sugar cookies and God only knows what else. I have said many times I think she's a cruel sadist, and I do.

I think this may well be one of the BEST explanations of the mentality at Kimkins that I have ever seen yet. It is absolutely accurate, IMO.

[Locarb4me]

Originally Posted by rebel

Magicsmom - I can understand how we fell victim to her, but what I can't understand is the people who know she's a fraud and they are still hanging on her every word. They are still asking her for advice. Can anybody tell me WHY???!!!!

Don't forget, the diet is working for a lot of people. I hate to admit it, but it is. Those who have found a way to tweak the original plan so that they haven't keeled over yet have actually lost weight and are looking mighty successful to those who are on the plan.

There's a mental disconnect necessary between not doing the actual Kimkins plans and staying there with their tweaked versions, claiming Kimkins success and hanging with their challenge buddies. Never underestimate the power of friendship and support, even on the internet. AmyB is the most notable example of this. She came out, saw what was said about Kimkins, is totally aware of the fraud and yet she's back there helping others. Doesn't make her a bad person, but it is a clear example of being able to rationalize.

Those who are following the Original Plan As Written have got all the hopes in the world that this is the one diet that will work for them.

They will either find ways to tweak the diet to make it healthier or they will drop out due to misery and health issues.

It's an exercise in IRONY to read anything at Kimkins, that's all I can say.

[Locarb4me]

Originally Posted by rebel

Sorry to gloat, but YEAH GIANTS!! I'm not a sports fan, but the rookie general manager for the Giants graduated from the same high school I did. We are so proud of Jerry Reese!

My DH has been a lifelong Giants fan. Needless to say, he is over the moon!!

[Locarb4me]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

Here's how she gets people sucked in ... it is sentiments like this, posted on KK ...

"I am so speechless when you post "ILY" and I feel loved by you!"

She makes people feel special and noticed. Many of them haven't felt that for some time. Too bad it is all a sham to further her own agenda.

I've noticed that Hidey is schmoozing her members way more lately than she used to. She is building a strong support base for herself....like she did when she was here. She is a master at emotional manipulation and she's pulling out all the stops.

[LoraJR72]

It boils down to desperation and in the end becomes a weight loss obsession. I know first hand because that was me at several times! I could have been one of those ladies on Ki