Why the fascination with Kimmer? #12

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by Madam De Leon

I've kept quiet about it until now, but this is what I've been thinking all along - that MCD still isn't completely above suspicion as Hidey's alternate site. JMHO, of course - I'm the suspicious type, especially when there's so many things in common w/KK. I'm not saying guilty until proven innocent... just something to keep in mind as a possibility... No harm in checking out as much as possible about it, especially since some things don't seem to add up.



I'm pretty certain we wouldn't go after a site that was clearly giving meal plans that added up to at least 1200 calories a day. On the other hand, MCD still adds up to less than 800, which is part of Hidey's MO.

Even if a recently registered diet was called Heidi Diaz-kins, and featured a meal plan that really did add up to at least 1200-1500 calories, with adequate fats, I doubt we'd be all over it, calling it fraud, unless there was something else about it that seemed like a scam, such as faked photos.

It's the fast weight loss claims, and the low low calories that are so suspicious with this one.



Doesn't even matter to me when the MCD site was started, IMHO. Hidey knew all along that there were detractors, those who were against her diet and pointed out the dangers. So why would she wait until there was tons of anti-KK info out there to steer potential cash victims away from the KK site? Why not start another site as soon as she had a few photos to steal, and a little time on her hands? She already knew how to make up a vLCD, and she even knew how to make the page appealing - she had the template all worked out, just needed a different name for it, a slight juggling of the meal plan, and someone to clone her existing site, with a few little Magic Chicken tweaks.


By the way... it may have been changed by now, but I remember when I looked at the MCD site and the stuff to join it, the price was listed as $100 on the front page, with the special introductory price of $69.95 for the first so many members, blah, blah, blah. But when I checked to see what was required to join by clicking on the join button, the price was $59.95, just like KK. Perhaps the tech guy just forgot to change the price when he copied that part of the code from KK... or perhaps Hidey just couldn't keep straight how much she wanted to charge for this one.




If this is just a nice lady who used poor judgment, then her poor judgment extends far beyond simply wanting to run a KK-clone site. The diet itself is every bit as bad as KK, even if the food selection is slightly different - that's poor judgment in itself.

This is also quite curious to me: We know what happens if you follow a diet that low in calories for an extended length of time, as Chicken Lady claims she did - we know the list of symptoms a person will exhibit.

How's Chicken Lady still so healthy looking if she's been following a starvation diet for so long? How can she still have so much hair? Where's her maintenance plan?

Even as far as the story about how God helped her lose weight and wanted her to charge $69.95 to tell you about it, Chicken Lady had cancer, etc - we all know how good Hidey is at spinning a good sob story too. Then again, if Chicken Lady really is legit, she may have lost the weigiht while being treated for cancer - it's typical for cancer patients to lose lots of weight.

My Theory?

It's possible that Hidey could have stolen someone's legitimate weight loss story photos. They could have been found almost anywhere, on the net or off. Local bariatric surgeon's brochures? How about a local diet center or gym brochure? Has anyone looked through every weight loss story photo on every other diet site out there? Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, etc? I"m sure there has to be online weight loss forums for low fatters, or calorie controlled dieters, just like there are for low carbers. Could be out there, somewhere. How about checking around to see if there's an ad looking to buy a weight loss photo story? This could have even been run in a newspaper in another city - I wouldn't put anything past Hidey. I doubt seriously that the lady in the photos is "in cahoots" with Heidi to start the site with a fictitious diet story, it's just a matter of figuring out where the photos really came from. The address given for the candle site appears to be faked, which prompts all kinds of suspicions.

Oh my, just read ahead as I previewed this post, and clicked on the candle site link.

Did you notice that there are no less than 3 links on the front page to her diet? And that the info about the candles says: "Nothing Compares to a Stoney Creek Candle Factory Candle. NOTHING!" (where have we heard that phrasing before?!) It also says "oh yeah!... America's favorite candle", which I"m sure would be big news to the Yankee Candle people, seeing as how I doubt most of us had ever even heard of Stoney Creek candles before MCD came to our attention.

But if you click on the store or candles link for the candles, there's no way to find out any information about the candles themselves on the pages, or how to order them. There is a list of available scents, and a link to leave an email address to get in touch with them, or find out information about fundraisers, but that's all! The information on the home page claims that there's also "a Shout Box to meet with your friends and discuss your favorite candles amongst one another.", but again, no link on any page of that site will take you there.


Unless it's a brand new site that they simply made available before finishing anything other than the MCD links.... Curiouser and curiouser....

All I can say is, I should have read ahead! What she said!

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by LINC

I don't know. That's a good theory, except people have been in touch with this lady. Someone - either the lady or someone pretending to be the lady - has responded. So, if this was true, then Heidi has assumed this woman's identity. She's even gone so far as to create a fictitious listing in the Granbury yellow pages.

Granted, it is a crappy website, but I've seen lots of web sites that sell things locally but aren't set up to sell anything on the internet. It IS strange, however, that this website gives you NO information on how to even get to their candle store. It's like it's set up for locals who already know where they are.

Lou

Who talked to her on the phone? I am aware of email correspondance, done through her site, but not anyone talking to her on the phone. And their website (MCD) contact info was not Granbury.

[WildAngel6]

Originally Posted by wackytobeme

Done, even left comment on the one blog that praises Kimkins and blasted Kevin Trudeau, hows that for the pot calling the kettle black.
I'm curious though... when I flag or report the blog as spam , there's no place to comment as why. If those that look into the site have no clue about kimkins the site looks "fine"...comments, pondering's?

If you would like to make the effort and take a little extra time to help clarify the issue, you can certainly report with more detail using this link:

Blogger Help

[nobimbo]

I have a question, and I don't know if this has been brought up before or not. Has anyone contacted the mail order bride site(s) that Heidi stole the photos from to inform them? Most if not all have copyright laws on their site. Here's one for instance:

All information obtained from this website, including ladies addresses, images, materials, and text can only be used by our clients for private non-commercial use. Any use of this information for any commercial purposes without our prior written permission is completely prohibited and will result in prosecution to the fullest extent under the law.

[SMP]

Originally Posted by Mayberryfan

Hi ladies. You guys are so diligent today, but I'm stuck on the 24 marathon on WGN. I wish sooooooooo much I could unleash Jack Bauer on Heidi. THAT would be fun!

Jack is in jail (for drunk driving.) Maybe they'll end up cell neighbours (except that Keifer will be done before it's Heidi's turn).

[CarolynF]

Originally Posted by nobimbo

I have a question, and I don't know if this has been brought up before or not. Has anyone contacted the mail order bride site(s) that Heidi stole the photos from to inform them? Most if not all have copyright laws on their site. Here's one for instance:

Hmmm..I think someone DID way back..and those Russian Bride Sites aren't quite on the up and up..(no big surprise there). I think the thing was that these girls were models who signed their pictures away and someone put them on the net
as Russian Brides..

Does anyone remember this???

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by LINC

Somebody left duck droppings on the chat thing.

Lou

Shhh ... we probably have lurkers ...

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by CarolynF

I looked at the Stoney Creek Candle thing..They sell wholesale and to fundraisers. They don't sell to the general public..like a store, etc..They probably only manufacture their candles there..This is pretty common..On ebay there is a place that sells Stoney Creek Candles, but it is in California...

I did see the duck droppings on the chat..

I can tell ya for sure ... I would not even consider using them for a fundraiser without any way to verify they are legit. How many times have we been told to be careful - the internet is full of scammers??

[MissMerize]

Originally Posted by nobimbo

I have a question, and I don't know if this has been brought up before or not. Has anyone contacted the mail order bride site(s) that Heidi stole the photos from to inform them? Most if not all have copyright laws on their site. Here's one for instance:

It has been addressed, patience grasshopper....

[CarolynF]

LOL..Mom.. I know some people in our town who make candles and sell them for fundraisers, too. I'm sure it is legit!!! But, it's always good to check things out. They probably do "local" fundraising as the postage would be pretty high on sending glass candles out..

[LINC]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

Who talked to her on the phone? I am aware of email correspondance, done through her site, but not anyone talking to her on the phone. And their website (MCD) contact info was not Granbury.

I don't think it was on the phone (although it wouldn't surprise me if someone called the Stony Creek number) it was via e-mail, but I figured it was through the candle store, which really does seem to exist. At least on paper. Seriously, this is what I think you're trying to say could have happened:

1) Kimmer wanted to put an escape plan in action before any of the real trouble started (that actually wouldn't surprise me).

2) She invented (or stole) the identity of the chicken lady who lost lots of weight.

3) I think the chicken lady actually exists and I think she actually lost weight - we've seen REAL before and after pictures of her. So, if Kimmer is using her likeness as the poster child for her new website, the lady is completely unaware of it OR she's aware of it and doesn't care OR she's in cahoots with Kimmer.

4) If she's completely unaware of it, then Kimmer also had to have invented: the candle business (right down to a yellow page listing and few mentions in local listings for Granbury) and a Myspace account for the lady (complete with a family, personal history and comments from made up friends) so that any correspondence that people think they're sending to the Chicken lady is really going to Kimmer.

5) I really doubt this lady wouldn't care that someone was scamming people using her diet story. And unless the above is true, she'd know by now.

6) And if the lady is in cahoots with Kimmer, Kimmer must be sharing the profits with her. I don't know......people say that's just not the way Kimmer rolls....

7) So back to the lady not knowing. Kimmer then advertised on the internet that she needed a programmer to create a website just like the one she already has and then she continued to pay someone to change it. Maybe she didn't think anyone would ever discover the reference to Kimkins in the ad, but what about the blatant plagiarism? Why pay someone to clone a site that nobody's supposed to know is related to Kimkins? Why pay someone at all if all you were going to do was change the name and the pictures on a website you already have?

8) So, she's running this site, using a real lady, who really lost weight while she's running another site with fake people, who didn't lose weight. Why use a real lady at all? Why not just find some more Russian brides? Why is she suddenly interested in showing people true weight loss stories? Remember, this is a woman who, at around the same time, was sending pictures to a major magazine of a Russian bride who didn't even have the same color eyes as all her other pictures and was claiming it was her.

9) And finally, while she was running the MCD site and collecting money from that, she had another corporation set up that is, in no way, related to her. Because if that corporation existed when the lawsuit was filed, they would have found it.

Or the chicken lady tried to copy someone else's web design and got busted.

I don't know.......it sounds awfully complicated, even for Heidi.

Lou

[SMP]

Originally Posted by Locarb4me

IMO, that was the one piece of evidence that to me, said Hidey wasn't involved.

I think MCD is just a blatant copy-cat looking to get rich quick. A la Kimkins...just slightly more aboveboard but quite possibly not much healthier.

Depends how long she's been keeping the weight off, doesn't it? If it's fairly recent (her cancer surgery was 2001, IIRC), then any damages worse than from radiation and chemo would be hard to find. But if she develops heart problems or loses her hair (maybe it's grown back in since chemo), can you blame the diet? Just checked - the diet "finished" by June 2007. Can ill effects show up at this late date? You bet. Can she maintain her losses and eat well at the same time? Ah, the $64 question. Let's check on her 6 months from now and see how her maintenance is going.
At least she doesn't hold herself up as a skin and hair model! And I do accept her befores and afters - no red dress. (It's a little black model with long sleeves and long skirt - there's just no denying that rapid weight loss on a grandmother results in saggy skin. Most people look much better with clothes than naked!)
It's also noteworthy that she was forced to improve her presentation after being bombed with duck poo. This is much better than the original. And, one hopes, owes nothing to Heidi other than pointing the way to make bux out of lost poundage.

[Madam De Leon]

Originally Posted by CarolynF

I looked at the Stoney Creek Candle thing..They sell wholesale and to fundraisers. They don't sell to the general public..like a store, etc..They probably only manufacture their candles there..This is pretty common..On ebay there is a place that sells Stoney Creek Candles, but it is in California...

I did see the duck droppings on the chat..

Maybe they're just changing their candle style or something... but there's nothing on the ebay listing for stoney creek candles that looks anything like the stoney creek candle photos shown on the stoney creek web pages. I mean they've gone from tin cans with various pictures on them, and primitive metal candle holders, to delicate glass jars of various types.

The addresses are completely different - Granbury (the location given on the stoney creek webpage) appears to be at least 40 miles from the Ft. Worth address on ebay.

Could one could be a factory site, the other a home location?

[CarolynF]

Madame..I noticed that, too..I'm sure it is someone else selling their candles and putting them in cans so they can mail them out without them breaking in the glass. I don't think they could use the same name unless they are the same candles...It's probably a relative or someone they know that sells them for them..

[amadeus4313]

Never mind - too far behind as usual

[LINC]

Originally Posted by amadeus4313

Click on the "fundraiser" info. Then look in the lower right hand corner in the "chat" box.

It's duck poo. Shhhhhh....

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by CarolynF

LOL..Mom.. I know some people in our town who make candles and sell them for fundraisers, too. I'm sure it is legit!!! But, it's always good to check things out. They probably do "local" fundraising as the postage would be pretty high on sending glass candles out..

Well, this gets curiouser and curiouser ...

Went back and read Yust Yucky's blog and all the email correspondance between them and Lupers. Then I started Googling phone numbers.

The one they gave in the email as a contact number comes back to a Medical Supply Wholesaler in Azle, Tx, about 25 miles NW of Ft Worth (remember this - it becomes important later on)

Then I looked at the Stoney Creek Candle Co website again.

Remember than Bonnie says she started her diet in August 2006 and it took her 10 months to lose her weight.

On the website they say they just moved back to Granbury, which is located about 55 miles SW of Ft Worth.

Google Stoney Creek Candle Co in Granbury and you get a number and an address.

Google David Luper in Granbury and you get a number and address.

Google the phone numbers and that's where things start getting odd.

First, the one for the candle company leads to an automatic blog traffic generator - whatever the heck THAT is.

Next, the one for David Luper comes back to the Texas Candle Factory ... whose website was copywrited in 2007, and the owner is a woman by the name of Sherri - a stay at home mom and head candle maker. They list a toll free number on their website and don't list a town. But at least their prices, etc are listed.

Wow. I can't believe I'm spending a Friday night this way ... though it is keeping me away from the popcorn my dh and ds are eating right now ...

[CarolynF]

Some "duck" left something in the chat box...You can't buy a candle because they are wholesale peeps and only make candles for fundraisers and orders..If you wanted to do a fundraiser, then they would "talk" with you..That's my understanding..

The Texas Candle Factory and the Stoney Creek Candles are the same..The candle maker is probably their ddinlaw..Sheri..cuz they have a 4 year old dd..They have the same jars and same scents..
You can order the Texas Candles online, I think..So, if anyone is interested....

[LINC]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

Next, the one for David Luper comes back to the Texas Candle Factory ... whose website was copywrited in 2007, and the owner is a woman by the name of Sherri - a stay at home mom and head candle maker. They list a toll free number on their website and don't list a town. But at least their prices, etc are listed.

Wow. I can't believe I'm spending a Friday night this way ... though it is keeping me away from the popcorn my dh and ds are eating right now ...

They mention that they are the original Texas Candle factory on their website. Maybe they somehow lost that name and started doing business under a new name? I think that can happen. Probably someone else (Sherri) took their old name and the two may not be related at all. Just a thought.

Lou

[Katinsac]

Originally Posted by WildAngel6

On Scams and Dieting The Art of Toad Swallowing

Kat, I don't see a post from you here yet?

I remember seeing it...guess I got distracted, lol...thanks...done

[CarolynF]

They have the same last name, though..Luper.. I doubt if Kimmer is helping them make their candles, though..LOLOL..

[HoneyBee2]

Now, Lou- Factor in this tidbit- The luper's son has done web design for several years. Hmmmm.......then why even hire someone at all?

MomtoEli-

David Luper comes back to the Texas Candle Factory

once run by their daughter (lupers) and their son David II did the web page.

[wackytobeme]

Originally Posted by WildAngel6