Why the fascination with Kimmer? #11

[Loner]

This is in response to the blog that she deleted....being a member of the Christmas challenge and support unlimited and considering her a friend at one time...what truly gets me.... her ups downs, this diet that diet, this procedure that procedure....any 'negative' vibes she felt were simply friends trying to reach out to her that were truly more concerned about her health than her weight. treating her like she had leprosy? for gods sakes girl your views are so skewed. i dont think she will ever get it!

[JoanieOrchard]

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

AmyB,

This is Avenuegirl here. I with you questioned who was running the site. It was supposed to have changed hands, but it never really did. I think we can see who is running the show.

I never questioned diddly squat on the site, and I've been banned. Is that fair?

Go back and see for yourself if there was any good reason for me to be banned.

I know how you feel, with those pretty colors on the board in there, and the friends you have met, and you see your computer screen and it FEELS LIKE HOME.

Can you lose weight in there? Why yes, you can. I don't think anyone here will deny that.

I have to be blunt with you though, it's just my way. You can also lose weight if you chop off an arm or a leg and let it bleed out.

Just sayin, it's not the best way to lose weight.

My biggest fear is that there is obviously no maintenance plan at this time, and you're the closest thing to it. My biggest fear is Heidi is using you because she knows there are people who look up to you so close to goal and will want to do what ever you do.

My biggest fear includes the regret you may feel down the road, when you realize what the KK way of eating has done to your body, and your family is now sad over what has happened to you.

I did not have any major ill effects until I stopped the diet. And now with my hair growing back, so is my weight.

I will not tell you what to do. I am just happy you have asked some questions of why we care so much about what is going on.

I will suggest you not be so afraid to look at all those blogs and anti kk sites. You think those people have nothing better to do?

I for one am swamped with more distressing personal issues. My father has a terrible cancer called multiple myeloma. I have been unemployed for months and am on the verge of bankruptcy. I have been staying with friends just to have a roof over my head. I am turning 40 this year and feel like I have nothing to show for it.

I encouraged people to join kimkins, and now I feel terrible. I had no right to support a diet that was based on fake evidence of a maintenance plan.

Big whoop if kimmer had actually fallen off the track. But this is not the case. Kimmer never was on track, and here I thought this lovely lady sitting in a lawnchair had been in maintenance for 5 years and was such a miracle. We find out she is not the lady in the lawnchair. There is no maintenance, and I have exposed myself to possibly becoming an eating disorder victim.

I am so afraid now of what I am eating, what I am not eating, I'm completely screwed in the head.

THIS WOMAN HAD NO RIGHT TO LIE TO ME ABOUT WHO SHE WAS!!!

THIS WOMAN HAD NO RIGHT TO GIVE OUT ADVICE ON DIET!

THIS WOMAN PREYED ON ME, USED A FAKE SALES PAGE TO TAKE MY MONEY AND HONE INTO MY BIGGEST INSECURITIES AND USE ME LIKE A GIANT SCIENCE EXPERIMENT WHILE SHE BOUGHT A NEW HOUSE AND NEW CARS WITH CASH AND LAUGHED AT A COURT DEPOSITION AND SAID NONCHALANTLY "oh, can I take that back?" ???????????

This is no way to run a proper business. This is a terrible site with unfortunately a lot of good people inside. The only way to send a message is to let it go.

There are new places to go to. LCF will not shun anyone away. They are just one of many places who will be kind enough to take in the victims of this atrocity.

Bravo! Take a bow. Well said. Heartfelt.

I applaud you!

And I'm sorry about your personal issues. I hope the new year brings some good things to you.

[Magicsmom]

Originally Posted by JoanieOrchard

Dealing with that woman almost requires learning a whole new language! From her husband's prosterate (did I get that right?) to her avitors to her subcontracting, I never know what the heck she's talking about.

You got it right! "Prosterate" is the Tippy-ism for prostate. And to think Kimmer hired this person to be her spokeshole!! A sad testimonial for the state of affairs at Kimkins.com.

ETA: If you go to Mariasol's blog, several pages down toward the beginning of the blog she had an English lesson for Tippy. It was a compilation of things we remember seeing her post in the BANTA thread and in other places. Too funny, and well worth checking out.

[avenuegirl]

I am honestly in tears right now and the screen is blurry and I just really want to scream.

I sincerely feel AmyB has a good heart, and I only hope she takes the time to weigh all the evidence.

It is so much to digest in one night.

AmyB, you take all the time you need.

I do mean what I said with all my heart.

[lisabinil]

2big here's the guidelines over at the Kimpire

"KIMKINS DIET
The original Kimkins Diet


As much lean protein as desired from the Kimkins Food List
0-20 total carbs per day(no fiber or sugar alcohol subtraction)
0-3 cups List 1 veggies per day OR
0-2 cups List 1 veggies + 0-1 cup List 2 veggies per day
Use minimal fat to make your menu work (careful, calories count!)
No alcohol or low carb products (sugar free candy, energy bars, ice cream, frozen meals)
Your appetite will reduce naturally after 3-5 days
Take a complete multivitamin each day plus other desired supplements


KIMMER EXPERIMENT (K/E)
K/E is used to reach ketosis quickly or as a jumpstart for other Kimkins Options


As much lean protein as desired from the Kimkins Food List
Minimal low-carb condiments and spices may be used sparingly
No alcohol, no cheese, no fatty meats, no fats, no veggies
Your appetite will drop naturally after 3-5 days
Take a complete multivitamin each day plus other desired supplements
You may remain on K/E as long as desired

KIMKINS BOOT CAMP
The most popular Kimkins Option!
30 minutes of intense daily exercise required


Breakfast
Up to 2 eggs (cooked without fat)
Up to 1/2 cup List 2 veggies
Up to 2 oz lean ham or other lean protein (raw/cured weight)
Unlimited non-calorie beverage

Lunch
Up to 4 oz lean protein (raw weight)
Up to 2 cups mixed greens + Wishbone Spritzer dressing (or caloric equivalent)
Unlimited non-calorie beverage

Dinner
Up to 4 oz lean protein (raw weight)
Up to 2 cups mixed greens + Wishbone Spritzer dressing (or caloric equivalent)
Unlimited non-calorie beverage

Take a complete multivitamin each day plus other desired supplements

VEGETARIAN OPTION
Vegetarian products have higher carbs so a calorie limit is suggested
Aim for no more than 1000 calories per day

Daily Limits


0-20 total carbs from all sources, no fiber subtraction
0-3 servings of protein substitutes including tofu, eggs, egg substitutes, protein powders
0-2 servings of higher carb choices including tempeh, Gardenburger and Boca products
0-2 servings of dairy choices including yogurt, soft cheese, hard cheese
0-3 cups of List 1 veggies
0-1 cups of List 2 veggies

Use minimal fat for cooking
Unlimited non-calorie beverages
A serving is per the product label
Use low calorie salad dressings and "light" butter substitutes (no trans fats)
Take a complete multivitamin each day plus other desired supplements
Due to higher carbs in vegetarian products, appetite reduction may not occur"

[JoanieOrchard]

Originally Posted by Magicsmom

You got it right! "Prosterate" is the Tippy-ism for prostate. And to think Kimmer hired this person to be her spokeshole!! A sad testimonial for the state of affairs at Kimkins.com.

ETA: If you go to Mariasol's blog, several pages down toward the beginning of the blog she had an English lesson for Tippy. It was a compilation of things we remember seeing her post in the BANTA thread and in other places. Too funny, and well worth checking out.

OMG! That site is FUNNY! I loved the revolutionary rolls. Funny. Funny. Funny!

[2big4mysize]

thanks I want to see about legal actual kimkins eating following the rules but with cals over 800 and EFAs and other nutriants and since according to one famous blogger I graduated from TT's U my speeling should be just fine for this.

[lisabinil]

2 big here's what someone posted they ate today

"Todays menu
Water
B=EAS shake-Vitamins
Water
L=broiled chicken-diet soda
water
D=salad with low fat dressing, water, 3pieces of asparagas yummy
S=?????"

another one for today
"b-1fried egg (in pam) 2 peices of lean ham, s cups of coffee
lots of water today
l-skjnless baked chicken 4oz
d-turkey sausage link w/mustard"

[**Lola**]

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

AmyB,

This is Avenuegirl here. I with you questioned who was running the site. It was supposed to have changed hands, but it never really did. I think we can see who is running the show.

I never questioned diddly squat on the site, and I've been banned. Is that fair?

Go back and see for yourself if there was any good reason for me to be banned.

I know how you feel, with those pretty colors on the board in there, and the friends you have met, and you see your computer screen and it FEELS LIKE HOME.

Can you lose weight in there? Why yes, you can. I don't think anyone here will deny that.

I have to be blunt with you though, it's just my way. You can also lose weight if you chop off an arm or a leg and let it bleed out.

Just sayin, it's not the best way to lose weight.

My biggest fear is that there is obviously no maintenance plan at this time, and you're the closest thing to it. My biggest fear is Heidi is using you because she knows there are people who look up to you so close to goal and will want to do what ever you do.

My biggest fear includes the regret you may feel down the road, when you realize what the KK way of eating has done to your body, and your family is now sad over what has happened to you.

I did not have any major ill effects until I stopped the diet. And now with my hair growing back, so is my weight.

I will not tell you what to do. I am just happy you have asked some questions of why we care so much about what is going on.

I will suggest you not be so afraid to look at all those blogs and anti kk sites. You think those people have nothing better to do?

I for one am swamped with more distressing personal issues. My father has a terrible cancer called multiple myeloma. I have been unemployed for months and am on the verge of bankruptcy. I have been staying with friends just to have a roof over my head. I am turning 40 this year and feel like I have nothing to show for it.

I encouraged people to join kimkins, and now I feel terrible. I had no right to support a diet that was based on fake evidence of a maintenance plan.

Big whoop if kimmer had actually fallen off the track. But this is not the case. Kimmer never was on track, and here I thought this lovely lady sitting in a lawnchair had been in maintenance for 5 years and was such a miracle. We find out she is not the lady in the lawnchair. There is no maintenance, and I have exposed myself to possibly becoming an eating disorder victim.

I am so afraid now of what I am eating, what I am not eating, I'm completely screwed in the head.

THIS WOMAN HAD NO RIGHT TO LIE TO ME ABOUT WHO SHE WAS!!!

THIS WOMAN HAD NO RIGHT TO GIVE OUT ADVICE ON DIET!

THIS WOMAN PREYED ON ME, USED A FAKE SALES PAGE TO TAKE MY MONEY AND HONE INTO MY BIGGEST INSECURITIES AND USE ME LIKE A GIANT SCIENCE EXPERIMENT WHILE SHE BOUGHT A NEW HOUSE AND NEW CARS WITH CASH AND LAUGHED AT A COURT DEPOSITION AND SAID NONCHALANTLY "oh, can I take that back?" ???????????

This is no way to run a proper business. This is a terrible site with unfortunately a lot of good people inside. The only way to send a message is to let it go.

There are new places to go to. LCF will not shun anyone away. They are just one of many places who will be kind enough to take in the victims of this atrocity.

That really makes it clear why what kimmer did was so bad. As a person new to this controversy, sometimes it seems like all of the anger directed toward this whole thing is overblown, but to read about how patently unfair it is for this woman to have taken your money for a "lifetime membership" and then ban you from that site on her whim...in addition to the selling you false hope based on her lies about her own weight loss and maintainence is just despicable. Really despicable.

How in the world she could justify banning people when she sold "lifetime memberships" and then not offer these people refunds is just unbelievable. I have to admit, I was feeling a bit sorry for Kimmer (I'm a big wuss) being exposed this way...having her fat stretch pants pictures exposed and laughed at all over the internet and on KTLA (how humiliating), but she really does deserve everything she's getting. Lying about her weight is one thing, but then cheating people out of their money by banning "lifetime members" and not offering refunds (until forced to do so because of a lawsuit) is just unbelivably horrible. I wonder how she can justify such a thing.

Any way, I am so sorry to read that you and your family are going through such hard times. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers. Please don't give up on yourself, things will get better. I had a really difficult last few years and I just kept trying to make things better and they finally have been getting better and better all this year. So don't give up no matter what. (((hugs)))

[anipomoni]

Umm...so which plan is Kimmer following? I didn't see Ranch dressing allowed on ANY of those lists.

Hmmmm....she wouldn't be following Atkins now would she?

[lisabinil]

Here's what Kimmer's doing

"Re:Kimmer's Back on Track Challenge! 9 Hours, 12 Minutes ago

I think I need Boot Camp for a couple of weeks myself. I better go check it out. Too many "tastes" of this and that in my travels and it's not doing me any favors! On the other hand, a friend told me she's planning for maintaining through the New Years. Takes off some of the stress that accompany this time anyway. I think that has some merit ... then again for some people (raising my hand) it can be license to munch."

"I'm only down 1 pound this week, which I'm not even sure about because the scale yesterday said 3 pounds. It's a new scale, what's the problem? Could be that my eating has not been as clean as it could be. Nobody can snack as "innocently" as I do, claiming items are on plan. No one to blame but me.

However, I am very glad to report I've got "jiggly puff" big time (thank heavens!) For anyone who doesn't know, that's when previously firm fat areas are now spongy ... my interpretation isthe "ready to melt" stage. The darned scale won't cooperate, but pants I wore last week are much baggier today (more than 1 pound worth). It has to be water retention (here I go rationalizing again ... sigh).

Someone invited me for pizza this evening (don't people know anything but pizza anymore???) which I turned down. There's a Japanese place in the same area where they cook in front of you, I think that will be much safer ... don't want to think about marinades!

This afternoon I'm going to roast 2 whole chickens that I got on sale. They're not huge, but for $2 and many meals, can't be beat. I stuff the cavity with onion remnants & crushed garlic cloves and the house will smell divine! I toss the carcass in a big pot with water to make soup broth. Suzy Homemaker."

[JoanieOrchard]

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

I am honestly in tears right now and the screen is blurry and I just really want to scream.

I sincerely feel AmyB has a good heart, and I only hope she takes the time to weigh all the evidence.

It is so much to digest in one night.

AmyB, you take all the time you need.

I do mean what I said with all my heart.

Avenuegirl, I am so sorry that all of this has been so upsetting for you. I could read your anger and hurt in the first post you made. It's upsetting for us too when we read how people have been hurt. It was only a week or so ago when AmyB was banned, and she posted it on LCF. She was so distraught that my heart just broke for her.

For many, as hard as it is when people get thrown out of Kimkins, they do go on, and it appears they find much needed support on other sites. For AmyB, while I understand her need to be with her friends on Kimkins, I don't understand why, after Heidi caused her such distress and hurt, she went back to KK. I wish I could understand why after Heidi treated her so shabbily, she still went back.

You seem like you have a good heart. I hope you will hang with us for a while.

[Magicsmom]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

2big here's the guidelines over at the Kimpire

KIMMER EXPERIMENT (K/E)
K/E is used to reach ketosis quickly or as a jumpstart for other Kimkins Options


As much lean protein as desired from the Kimkins Food List
Minimal low-carb condiments and spices may be used sparingly
No alcohol, no cheese, no fatty meats, no fats, no veggies
Your appetite will drop naturally after 3-5 days
Take a complete multivitamin each day plus other desired supplements
You may remain on K/E as long as desired

K/E is nothing but Stillmans, written by a DOCTOR, and he said do it no more than two weeks! That Kimmer is a sadist!

Originally Posted by lisabinil

2 big here's what someone posted they ate today

"Todays menu
Water
B=EAS shake-Vitamins
Water
L=broiled chicken-diet soda
water
D=salad with low fat dressing, water, 3pieces of asparagas yummy
S=?????"

another one for today
"b-1fried egg (in pam) 2 peices of lean ham, s cups of coffee
lots of water today
l-skjnless baked chicken 4oz
d-turkey sausage link w/mustard"

How sad is that when people find it necessary to report water and vitamins as part of their "menu"!!

[susique333]

[quote=lisabinil;9610850]Here's what Kimmer's doing

"Re:Kimmer's Back on Track Challenge! 9 Hours, 12 Minutes ago

I think I need Boot Camp for a couple of weeks myself. I better go check it out. Too many "tastes" of this and that in my travels and it's not doing me any favors! On the other hand, a friend told me she's planning for maintaining through the New Years. Takes off some of the stress that accompany this time anyway. I think that has some merit ... then again for some people (raising my hand) it can be license to munch."

"I'm only down 1 pound this week, which I'm not even sure about because the scale yesterday said 3 pounds. It's a new scale, what's the problem? Could be that my eating has not been as clean as it could be. Nobody can snack as "innocently" as I do, claiming items are on plan. No one to blame but me. [quote]

ONLY a POUND? Well HEIDI...cut, cut, cut those measely calories even more! DRINK TIL YOUR TONSILS FLOAT! Are you SURE youre measuring EACH portion....NOW remember, cooked veggies no more than a JELLO cup full. Use that food scale...DONT GUESS AT PORTIONS`...how many time must I say this??!

HOW MANY OF YOU EX KIMKINITES GOT THIS VERY LECTURE WHEN WE STALLED? Stalling was a sure sign we were not "following the program". Id see her insist a stall was due to us NOT MEASURING everything. Jello cup full.....indeed!

[JoanieOrchard]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

Here's what Kimmer's doing

"Re:Kimmer's Back on Track Challenge! 9 Hours, 12 Minutes ago

I think I need Boot Camp for a couple of weeks myself. I better go check it out. Too many "tastes" of this and that in my travels and it's not doing me any favors! On the other hand, a friend told me she's planning for maintaining through the New Years. Takes off some of the stress that accompany this time anyway. I think that has some merit ... then again for some people (raising my hand) it can be license to munch."

"I'm only down 1 pound this week, which I'm not even sure about because the scale yesterday said 3 pounds. It's a new scale, what's the problem? Could be that my eating has not been as clean as it could be. Nobody can snack as "innocently" as I do, claiming items are on plan. No one to blame but me.

However, I am very glad to report I've got "jiggly puff" big time (thank heavens!) For anyone who doesn't know, that's when previously firm fat areas are now spongy ... my interpretation isthe "ready to melt" stage. The darned scale won't cooperate, but pants I wore last week are much baggier today (more than 1 pound worth). It has to be water retention (here I go rationalizing again ... sigh).

Someone invited me for pizza this evening (don't people know anything but pizza anymore???) which I turned down. There's a Japanese place in the same area where they cook in front of you, I think that will be much safer ... don't want to think about marinades!

This afternoon I'm going to roast 2 whole chickens that I got on sale. They're not huge, but for $2 and many meals, can't be beat. I stuff the cavity with onion remnants & crushed garlic cloves and the house will smell divine! I toss the carcass in a big pot with water to make soup broth. Suzy Homemaker."

I think I'm going to gag. Really.

[Tooter]

Obviously, Kimmer just doesn't want it bad enough, Cheating? Snacking?. Why is she even wasting our time.

If You tweak it, it's not Kimkins.

Why doesn't she just eat a greasy hamburger and do Fatkins.

[gibster]

Not totally off topic:

BBC America On Demand is showing "Super Skinny Me". Very interesting program about 2 journalists who conduct a 5-week experiment to see if they can lose enough weight to fit into size 00 jeans. The emotions they reveal are totally familiar.

[mauitammy]

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

AmyB,

This is Avenuegirl here. I with you questioned who was running the site. It was supposed to have changed hands, but it never really did. I think we can see who is running the show.

I never questioned diddly squat on the site, and I've been banned. Is that fair?

Go back and see for yourself if there was any good reason for me to be banned.

I know how you feel, with those pretty colors on the board in there, and the friends you have met, and you see your computer screen and it FEELS LIKE HOME.

Can you lose weight in there? Why yes, you can. I don't think anyone here will deny that.

I have to be blunt with you though, it's just my way. You can also lose weight if you chop off an arm or a leg and let it bleed out.

Just sayin, it's not the best way to lose weight.

My biggest fear is that there is obviously no maintenance plan at this time, and you're the closest thing to it. My biggest fear is Heidi is using you because she knows there are people who look up to you so close to goal and will want to do what ever you do.

My biggest fear includes the regret you may feel down the road, when you realize what the KK way of eating has done to your body, and your family is now sad over what has happened to you.

I did not have any major ill effects until I stopped the diet. And now with my hair growing back, so is my weight.

I will not tell you what to do. I am just happy you have asked some questions of why we care so much about what is going on.

I will suggest you not be so afraid to look at all those blogs and anti kk sites. You think those people have nothing better to do?

I for one am swamped with more distressing personal issues. My father has a terrible cancer called multiple myeloma. I have been unemployed for months and am on the verge of bankruptcy. I have been staying with friends just to have a roof over my head. I am turning 40 this year and feel like I have nothing to show for it.

I encouraged people to join kimkins, and now I feel terrible. I had no right to support a diet that was based on fake evidence of a maintenance plan.

Big whoop if kimmer had actually fallen off the track. But this is not the case. Kimmer never was on track, and here I thought this lovely lady sitting in a lawnchair had been in maintenance for 5 years and was such a miracle. We find out she is not the lady in the lawnchair. There is no maintenance, and I have exposed myself to possibly becoming an eating disorder victim.

I am so afraid now of what I am eating, what I am not eating, I'm completely screwed in the head.

THIS WOMAN HAD NO RIGHT TO LIE TO ME ABOUT WHO SHE WAS!!!

THIS WOMAN HAD NO RIGHT TO GIVE OUT ADVICE ON DIET!

THIS WOMAN PREYED ON ME, USED A FAKE SALES PAGE TO TAKE MY MONEY AND HONE INTO MY BIGGEST INSECURITIES AND USE ME LIKE A GIANT SCIENCE EXPERIMENT WHILE SHE BOUGHT A NEW HOUSE AND NEW CARS WITH CASH AND LAUGHED AT A COURT DEPOSITION AND SAID NONCHALANTLY "oh, can I take that back?" ???????????

This is no way to run a proper business. This is a terrible site with unfortunately a lot of good people inside. The only way to send a message is to let it go.

There are new places to go to. LCF will not shun anyone away. They are just one of many places who will be kind enough to take in the victims of this atrocity.

Very powerful post AvenueGirl. I am so sorry you were hurt by her.

[anipomoni]

Originally Posted by JoanieOrchard

You now know? You didn’t know about the starvation advice that she offered when she was on LCF? You didn’t know about that advice when you followed her to Kimkins?

You know I totally agree with that. It was no secret here for a long time that Kimmer would say, if you had fat on your body, you didn't need to eat!!! She preached that, and things like that, very often.

And to be completely honest, that part bothers me about others too. I won't point fingers...but certain people just should have known better than to support her and her insane advice. I don't want to sound snarky (that's why I won't name anyone) but it has always made me uneasy how anyone knowledgable about the body can follow and promote her advice.

Originally Posted by lisabinil

2 big here's what someone posted they ate today

"Todays menu
Water
B=EAS shake-Vitamins
Water
L=broiled chicken-diet soda
water
D=salad with low fat dressing, water, 3pieces of asparagas yummy
S=?????"

another one for today
"b-1fried egg (in pam) 2 peices of lean ham, s cups of coffee
lots of water today
l-skjnless baked chicken 4oz
d-turkey sausage link w/mustard"

This also bothers me. Where are all these "good people" at kk? Oh wait, these are the same ones who just want to stay in their challenges and plug their ears (lalalala). What about all those poor people and newbies who don't know about the health concerns and are just following the guidlines as written?? Still as written??

Again, I don't mean to sound rude. I know there is very, very (hopelessly) little anyone at kk can really do without getting banned or deleted. But I don't like this attitude that it's ok to be at kk if you just "MYOB" and stay in your challenge. I don't agree with that. Sorry.

[Princess Dieter]

Avenue Girl: Let me hug you! {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{AG}}}}}}}}}}

AmyB: Please just consider that your presence there is actually aiding and giving credence and support to a woman who is an admitted fraud. And she even lied to her staff (ie, telling Tippy she couldn't pay her wages cause she had no money for milk or to pay her car, when she actually had paid off her car and bought a house for half a million cash just a couple weeks ago.) This is not a woman who deserves any sort of support, no matter how passive. Please, take your friends and go somewhere better. Start your own loop or forum or go to another LC forum, but don't give Heidi one ounce of your goodness as a screen for her evils.

As far as Tippy, well, all these threads make very clear what she's said and done continuously from LCF through to her Kimmer days. If you really, really want to know, then just set aside the time and read every single thread and all the blogs that posted Tippy's ADMIN mails with Heidi. They're eye-opening.

And I hope this week is a happier and Tippy-less one for all. I may be having eye surgery tomorrow, so I may not be able to come online for a day or more. In the meantime, blessings on everyone--including Avenue Girl and AmyB and the regulars here who, let's not mistake it, are on the side of the angels when it comes to the KK matter.

Heidi is evil.

[JoanieOrchard]

Originally Posted by Princess Dieter