Why the fascination with Kimmer? #11

[HoneyBee2]

MomtoEli- Those truly are beautiful words and I can understand the idea that the apology has nothing to do with the offender but that it allows us to go on.

In all honesty, I never really moved the problem from being TT's to being mine. I view all this as her moral and ethical issues, so this was between her and her God from the beginning. That is how I have always viewed it.

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by Princess Dieter

Exactly. Correct.

-snipped-
Plus--religious stuff warning here, sorry-- as a Christian who reads her Bible, prays, tithes, supports missionaries, really wants to not do harm to the innocent, believes it is my duty to stand between evildoers and their victims when I have that chance--and who has studied theology to boot, I'll freely add my two Biblical cents, since others have: God doesn't forgive the unrepentant. Harsh, but true. The gospel is not just roses. It's got a sword's edge. And the sword hangs over the heads of the unrepentant.

-snipped some more simply for brevity, not to take things out of context.

Changed my mind here ... there is much I would love to say, but wisdom precludes that. Plus I recognize in myself that ugly desire to be right!

[susique333]

Originally Posted by HoneyBee2

MomtoEli- Those truly are beautiful words and I can understand the idea that the apology has nothing to do with the offender but that it allows us to go on.

In all honesty, I never really moved the problem from being TT's to being mine. I view all this as her moral and ethical issues, so this was between her and her God from the beginning. That is how I have always viewed it.

I so agree. Im simply not going to listen to her, nothing from her mouth is worth it to me. Heidi on the other hand makes me mad.

[Dottie]

Originally Posted by missis36

While many of you are religious individuals, please keep in mind others are not, or if they are it's not the same type of religion you are. Meaning: While some choose to have forgiveness in their hearts, others choose the "eye for an eye" mentality.

This does not make any one person more right than the other. It's just that with such a diverse board you will run across people who heal in their own way. Some who believe Karma needs a little help and some who believe if you put your trust in God he will handle it.

I also think you can forgive someone but still not want to embrace them back into your life/circle/whatever. I believe TT falls into this catagory with many, many people... like "I forgive you, now go away". And that's not being mean, it's just being honest.

[Princess Dieter]

Originally Posted by Dottie

I also think you can forgive someone but still not want to embrace them back into your life/circle/whatever. I believe TT falls into this catagory with many, many people... like "I forgive you, now go away". And that's not being mean, it's just being honest.

OMIGOSH, that's such a cool quote for a tee: "I forgive you. Now, go away."

hahahahahah

[Magicsmom]

Originally Posted by marnaewilson

Tremendous post, both for the insight and your conclusions. MomtoEli, I hope your weight loss continues on to full success, because you are already a success as a decent person.

I totally agree. Forgiving, however, does not mean you turn your brain or your defenses off. We can be forgiving and still be wise. We cannot demand that someone else fix their mistakes or repent. We just have to let them be less than perfect or downright wicked and stay away from them if they choose to be that way.

Originally Posted by BobbiOh

I'm not even and eye for an eye person. I just believe that actions speak louder than words. There's a large difference between asking for forgiveness and behaving in manner which shows that you are desirous of forgiveness. She's mouthing the words, but so far not I'm seeing any action. It doesn't mean that I'm hunting her down or holding hate in my heart.

Originally Posted by Dottie

I also think you can forgive someone but still not want to embrace them back into your life/circle/whatever. I believe TT falls into this catagory with many, many people... like "I forgive you, now go away". And that's not being mean, it's just being honest.

ITA with all of you! Some people here see us trying to communicate what kind of person TT is, and those of us doing it knew her before the days of KK. We know her better than most of you do. We saw her in action, and are sincerely trying to warn people about this woman. Trust me, where she goes, drama and destruction will follow. It is her nature, she has proven this repeatedly to many people.

This is NOT venom, it is the truth. It is not unforgiveness, it is a sincere warning to people who seem inclined to let her into their lives again. We are trying desperately to spare you what we have been through. But each of us gets to make our own decision about that.

I feel somewhat judged by those who are viewing some of us as unforgiving and venomous toward TT. Believe me, if you all want us to shut up about it, I'll be more than happy to and you can have a kum-ba-yah with TT and see what happens. However, I will not let her be a part of my life again. I am free of her. Life is too short to spend it with people like her. As Dottie said, my message to TT is "I forgive you, now go away!".

[Darlene41]

Hi Everybody,
I have lurked from the very beginning. I don’t post often but I have read every post, clicked on every link, did all things (behind the scenes) that were requested, ie – send letters, searched for Russion brides (I found one), etc.
I just feel I have to give my opinion, my view if you will. This is MY opinion. Please don’t take anything personal. I’ve never had any interactions with Tippy or Heidi.
I never attempted her diet. I haven’t been affected by the scam or diet. I am just an outsider sort of watching from the sidelines and have a different perspective that I want to share.

In regards to Tippy – many of you might be very disappointed. It’s not all about Tippy making a mistake. It’s way more than that. It is who she is. I see her as the neighborhood trouble maker, the family trouble maker, and a fake friend. She is very immature and reminds of junior high. Remember the girl who people really didn’t like. But, she tried to be nice and then would gossip to one girl, and then gossip to the other girl about the other girl. How about the way she speaks about her husband. I could never talk that way about my husband. It’s disrepectful and mean.
Make sense? Ya know, I have a 13 yr. old niece who is more mature than Tippy.

Also, you should be…well, maybe I’ll take that back and say that I am appalled at some of things that she has done to people. Trying to sabotage somebody’s weight loss isn’t a mistake, that is very mean, and that is the ESSENSE OF TIPPY. This isn’t about oh, I am sorry for doing that; this is something that she NEVER should have done in the first place. And, I won’t pick through everything she has done, most of you know everything.
But, do you understand, that these aren’t mistakes?
This is her, her personality, THE ESSENSE OF TIPPY.
It’s been said that people can change. Think of somebody you’ve known for many years? Have they truly, really changed their personality?, have they changed who they really are? Yes, maybe they took a different career path, maybe they’ve lost weight, maybe they changed what type music they like, but have they really changed THE ESSENCE OF THEMSELVES? No.

She wants to be the head one, the one in charge, she wants attention, even if it’s bad.
But, not because she’s a con or schemer like Heidi, but because that is the ESSENSE OF TIPPY. Personally, in my opinion, Tippy just isn’t smart enough to do what Heidi has done. (well, Heidi isn’t really that smart either because she got caught)

See, IF she is talking to the attorney, IF she is ‘trying’ to do right, it is only because she wants to be able to come back in here and have everybody praise her for doing a good job, for realizing that she made a mistake, etc. She will have all the glory and attention.
But I believe that it is for show, to get in the good graces once again, so she can do it all over again. It’s a pattern of behavior and personality.

So, I’ve said what I wanted to say. I just don’t want people who have already been hurt to be steamrolled again. And, for people who do have the forgiveness in their hearts, I admire you. I can only forgive when it’s an honest mistake. However, I don’t feel the need to forgive her, I don’t have any anger. To be honest with you, I don’t have any feelings one way or the other. Except to say, Wow! Can’t believe these people (meaning Heidi, TT, SL) are doing all of this crap. Well, I’m not angry, but I am disgusted with Heidi and her crew for what they have done and are doing.

I think it’s wonderful that we can all share our beliefs/opinions with such respect.

On another note, this entire thread has been crazy, funny, sad, full of great information and I thank all you for the work you’ve done to bring all this to light.
I feel like I know each and every one of you. And although I don’t have any feelings about the scammers and the lying liars who lie, I feel compassion for all of you. (When say 'feelings', I mean I'm not angry inside because they didn't do anything personal to me. I can't find the right words to express exactly what I'm trying to say there.
And, I do have respect for each of you and respect your beliefs.

Have a wonderful day..and back to lurking.

[htxfroggy]

Me too. I must have missed something.

Me three........

[TerryC]

I would just like to add that I agree with what everyone has said the last few pages about forgiveness. I know that there have been some differing opinions, but somehow I am finding that I agree with everyone's opinion. I think it is because I feel like I have gotten to know so many of you really well through reading your posts so the things you say then have value to me.

You think of a message board like this as being anonymous and you can be anything you want (like "the kimmer"), but in all actuality, everyone's individual personality really becomes evident through their posting. I have never met any of you in person, and I don't know how many of you have met each other, but it seems like I know you all really well just from the last 5 months that I have been following this thread. If any of you are fake people who are lying to us...I sure can't tell and I am pretty sure that you aren't. Now that is not to say that I haven't thought that some were, but usually those are drive by posters anyway.

So in my long rambling way (I sure wish I was the Princess Dieter - she has such an imperial way with words, I have no doubt she will be the queen some day) what I am trying to say is that whether any of us have the same opinion or not of what forgiveness is or whether we can, I feel or maybe somehow know in my heart that everyone will be doing the right thing.

And its true you don't have to let the person that you have forgiven keep doing the thing you forgave them for.

I forgive you...now I am done with you!

[Mallory]

Great post Darlene41

[Dottie]

Originally Posted by Princess Dieter

OMIGOSH, that's such a cool quote for a tee: "I forgive you. Now, go away."

hahahahahah

Thank you

[marnaewilson]

You know, my mother does really mean things to me all the time. Just a week a go she sent me a Christmas letter and included in it a notarized letter saying I and several of my siblings were not to be notified or invited to her funeral. What a Christmas present! I don't have to like my mom. I don't have to associate with her. I just try not to let her affect my peace of mind. Same goes for Tippy. I have no dog in the fight with her, because I never interacted with her at all, but I've read all these threads, and I empathize with those of you whom she hurt. I am sorry people are mean and selfish and hurtful. But I laugh inside sometimes because Tippy is getting just what she wanted--all the attention in the world. And you bet she'll pretend to be sorry, cause then she'll get even more attention from you loving and forgiving women. But it's really all just a pretense so she can stay front and center. If you really want to get back at her, you'll all refuse to discuss, recognize, or interact with her. Period.

[winslow]

Originally Posted by Tanner

Seems she likes to bite off more then she can chew too. ( again )
I think you are right -- needs some age on her --
Winslow could likely teach her a thing or two I bet.

You rang? Huh?

[TerryC]

Originally Posted by marnaewilson

If you really want to get back at her, you'll all refuse to discuss, recognize, or interact with her. Period.

I think that is a great idea...what if we just never mention her name again? Can we do it?

[Darlene41]

Originally Posted by marnaewilson
If you really want to get back at her, you'll all refuse to discuss, recognize, or interact with her. Period.

Originally Posted by TerryC

I think that is a great idea...what if we just never mention her name again? Can we do it?

Well, one thing is.. she can't respond in here and that probably drives her crazy.

[buzzybee]

Originally Posted by Dottie

I also think you can forgive someone but still not want to embrace them back into your life/circle/whatever. I believe TT falls into this catagory with many, many people... like "I forgive you, now go away". And that's not being mean, it's just being honest.

SO very true!!!!

[Darlene41]

Originally Posted by marnaewilson

You know, my mother does really mean things to me all the time. Just a week a go she sent me a Christmas letter and included in it a notarized letter saying I and several of my siblings were not to be notified or invited to her funeral. What a Christmas present! I don't have to like my mom. I don't have to associate with her. I just try not to let her affect my peace of mind. Same goes for Tippy. I have no dog in the fight with her, because I never interacted with her at all, but I've read all these threads, and I empathize with those of you whom she hurt. I am sorry people are mean and selfish and hurtful. But I laugh inside sometimes because Tippy is getting just what she wanted--all the attention in the world. And you bet she'll pretend to be sorry, cause then she'll get even more attention from you loving and forgiving women. But it's really all just a pretense so she can stay front and center. If you really want to get back at her, you'll all refuse to discuss, recognize, or interact with her. Period.

I am so sorry. That is just awful and heartbreaking.

[TerryC]

Originally Posted by marnaewilson

You know, my mother does really mean things to me all the time. Just a week a go she sent me a Christmas letter and included in it a notarized letter saying I and several of my siblings were not to be notified or invited to her funeral. What a Christmas present! I don't have to like my mom. I don't have to associate with her. I just try not to let her affect my peace of mind.

My father is a lot like your mother...so I can totally relate. Mostly not mean, just manipulative and emotionally controlling. I have had no relationship with him for years (his choice) and it actually is better for me that way. I forgave him and let it go a long time ago.

[missis36]

Originally Posted by MomToEli

Oh, sweetie, this doesn't have a thing to do with religion, really. It has to do with allowing someone else to control your own emotions. Secular mind-docs will all tell you the same thing. And there is a difference between refusing to forgive and sounding a warning. Forgiveness also does not mean being a silent witness to evil.

I'm so sorry about your little brother and my heart breaks for your dad. I fled once, too, so I understand the feelings.

In any event, I'm not attempting to lecture or preach. If ONE person lets go of bitterness because of what I've written my task is done. And if NOONE does, its done, too, because I'm not responsible for the response - just to be true to the message.

Hey! Isn't that what those of you who are sounding the alarm against Kimkins are responsible for, too?

Hey Mom, I didn't mean that it had everything to do with religion, I just meant that we all have differing opinions on this.

I have read things on this board that make me cringe too. But, I don't begrudge one person who was negatively affected by this scam their feelings, I just don't click the quote button and state "I agree" when someone posts something I think is mean. And if I think it's mean well heck, it's gotta be mean hehe.

All joking aside and all religion aside I really only wanted to say that I respect every person who posts here (unless drive by poster, or KK employee) and you all are entitled to your opinion, I just wanted to try to clarify a bit about the different sides of the coin. Also I'd like to add that I have never once thought about Kk or TT when I'm not on this board. Wait, I'm sorry that's a lie (see SL that's how easy to admit a lie) I once thought about Heidi when I was at the drugstore in my sock monkey jammie pants, I then thought "Holy crap what if someone is following me." But that's the only time.

TT doesn't consume my life, and I don't have hate for anyone in the whole world. While I may say "I hate liars" I can't say I actually hate TT, if anything I feel sorry for her. Very sorry that now it seems that the one thing she wants the most (a loving community to belong to) she can't have. And I know that above all, the friendships I have made on this thread and from this site are friendships I will always cherish.

Cripes I'm bla blaing again. I just wanted to let you know I wasn't trying to sound anti religion in my last post. I'm a very religious person, just not the same type as you I don't think....but I'm working on it

ETA: Oh and Mom, I also want it noted I wasn't saying you were begrudging anyone their feelings either. I loved your post and again, think it's beautiful that you are the way you are. Me, I'm a work in progress

[MissMerize]

I just had to check the kk site for something and noticed she's using amyb in the success stories in the front

[GinaC]

Very good posts by all re TT. This is my position on the whole tawdry affair:

Forgiveness is a personal thing but in order to forgive you must be the one who has been wronged. TT did not do anything to me therefore, I can't forgive her for her acts. Only those who were wronged can offer her forgiveness and I would never dream of speaking for them. While Becky and Christin have both offered forgiveness, Kim and many others have not yet reached that point and I respect their decision to withhold forgiveness until they feel that she is worthy.

However, the crime that she helped to perpetuate is an act committed against society and I am a member of that society. Society has a system in place to offer forgiveness to criminals - trial in a court of law before a jury of your peers. If found guilty you will be punished according to the laws of society. After completing your punishment, you are restored to society.

TT is a criminal and while individual forgiveness is in process, she is still responsible for her actions against society.

[MomToEli]

Originally Posted by Magicsmom

I feel somewhat judged by those who are viewing some of us as unforgiving and venomous toward TT. Believe me, if you all want us to shut up about it, I'll be more than happy to and you can have a kum-ba-yah with TT and see what happens. However, I will not let her be a part of my life again. I am free of her. Life is too short to spend it with people like her. As Dottie said, my message to TT is "I forgive you, now go away!".

Whoa, Nellie! Speaking for at least myself, plus how I've read most of these posts, no one is judging anyone here. And no one is even hinting that anyone with a brain should get all cozy and cuddly with TT. Speaking for myself, I've no intention whatsoever of EVER getting to know her. I HAVE, however, grown quite fond of several of YOU and felt compelled to encourage those that are harboring a deep resentment of this women to not let her become so darned important to you, because experience (and training) has shown that that sort of intense feelings towards another can be incredibly destructive. As someone else has stated opening, the intensity has been building.

And I'm certainly not trying to censor anyone. Why, that would simply be unAmerican of me.

Please take a step back and try to hear the heart of what is said. And if you don't like it, please just reject it.

It disturbs me greatly to be attributed with intentions I simply do not have. Are you so caught up in this that a simple discussion of the meaning of forgiveness and how that has been totally twisted in our society to mean something totally meaningless is somehow tantamount to sleeping with the enemy?