Why the fascination with Kimmer? #10

[Rose1271]

Originally Posted by beckynett

Let me also say my issue is not Kimmer's size. This is a weight loss site. Kimkins is a weight loss site. We are all here because we are or were heavy. So, I have no issue with someone being overweight, or losing and regaining. It is a struggle we all share, to some extent.

My issue is that she has deliberately lied with intent to defraud, and that she CONTINUES to lie for profit, even in her so-called 'confession'. That is illegal.

She never reached goal. She admits to only losing 100 lbs. which would have left her still over 200 lbs.
Then, she admits she cannot and has not ever maintained. So, that must mean she did NOT maintain even the the 100 lb. loss for all these 5 or 6 years she claimed, and then regain it since the magazine. No, she was actually regaining the weight while she was still here, presiding over the 'Ask Kimmer' thread. She was morbidly obese when she started Kimkins, and has been the whole time. I believe she was bigger than her previous high of 317.

That is not an 'oops - my bad'. That is a crime.

Even if she had regained it all since the magazine came out, that in itself would speak a warning about the rebound gain of someone who has damaged her metabolism severely, maybe beyond repair, with Kimkins.

It appears she started losing when the PI pics outed her.

It is not easy for anyone to lose a lot of weight and maintain. I know that.

Yet, quite a few people here on this site and at other good low-carb sites have done it the right way.

I hope it goes as well for those of us who have done Kimkins --- but, that's not what I have seen so far.

Good post.

[wackytobeme]

Originally Posted by EasyPeas

"Handle everything".... hmmm. Interesting words there. Well, to use your terminology, she "handled everything" in such a way to commit fraud. And it's not okay. My opinion.

And as far as ganging up on people... I would say it isn't that people are ganging up, they simply disagree with some of your statements and are saying so.

Your opinion is backed up with facts. Babyphat has not given specifics to back up her opinion, other than the lying liar who lies quote which again is backed up with facts. I have seen people respectfully disagree with comments made here that were maybe over the top they were not attacked for saying so. Much can be said for approach
As far as being told to leave, that was not said, it was suggested that if babyphat didn't care for the discussion going on here then it was in her right not to come here and read them. On the other hand, over at KK's I was told to leave when I brought up valid points that didn't appeal to the masses. And then of course banned.
If people had been allowed to speak their minds over there and discuss the facts, there probably wouldn't be all these lengthy threads here. But that is not allowed, so I am thankful for these threads and all the efforts of those who are here that keep them going.

[This time]

Originally Posted by susique333

<raises hand> I confess....Im a juvenile cyber lynch mobber (is that a word?). My weapons of choice are commas and quotion marks, but my favorite is the exclaimation mark! After being personally convinced by a psycho, aka, Kimmer, that not only are the before and afters REAL but they offer me PROOF that I will not only lose weight with HER secret diet, I will come out of it healthier than ever. A week in the hospital lead me to discover the diet is dangerous. I am forever glad to have this site to VENT in...and if all of this VENTING is disturbing...may I offer you the wonderful RECIPE threads as it is nice and quiet over there.

I heard there are gobs of Wonderwoman costumes on sale after Halloween?

[Chelveston]

Originally Posted by ketosis

KIMMER have you ever thought to write a book?

Now baby phat isn't that an interesting thread I found?

In that thread Kimmer responded:

Originally Posted by kimmer

...Although I love to write there wouldn't be anything to put in my book beyond the first paragraph ..

And, she actually told the truth in that thread! No false modesty there!

Originally Posted by Baby PHAT

What bothers me is the lynch mob mentality and the juvenile way that this is being handled.

Originally Posted by Baby PHAT

Sarcasm aside...

So you are telling me that a woman on the internet has the power to force people into doing something without researching it first?

You guys are acting like I'm an advocate for scam artists. LOL no, I'm on your side. You are all misinterpreting what I'm saying.

When I say lynch mob mentality, what I'm speaking of is people who follow the leader. People who are easily manipulated and all too willingly fall into a trap. Exposing Kimmer is one thing but the constant speculation and analyzing and name calling is juvenile.

And of course it's my opinon, that's obvious. I typed it and I meant it.

Those are some strong words you're using there.

From TheFreeDictionary.com (bolding mine)

Noun 1. lynch mob - a mob that kills a person for some presumed offense without legal authority

ju·ve·nile (adj.)
1. Not fully grown or developed; young.
2. Of, relating to, characteristic of, intended for, or appropriate for children or young people: juvenile fashions.
3. Marked by immaturity; childish

You're right that the name calling could be considered juvenile. It's also a stress reliever. I strongly disagree that the speculation and analyzing are juvenile. It's the analyzing and speculations from these threads that led to the discovery of the Russian brides, among other things.

As for "lynch mob," you might want to check the definition. From your definition, you may have chosen "sheep" much more appropriately.

2. sheep - a timid defenseless simpleton who is readily preyed upon
simpleton, simple - a person lacking intelligence or common sense
3. sheep - a docile and vulnerable person who would rather follow than make an independent decision; "his students followed him like sheep"

This group is not a lynch mob. For one thing, their actions have been legal. For another, the ultimate outcome will be decided by a court of law thanks to the filing of the civil suit and appeals to legal authorities for possible criminal charges.

Originally Posted by Baby PHAT

Everyone is trying to convince me that Kimmer is wrong and that the way things are being handled are justified. Not one person has addressed the real matter that I have brought up and that is the fact that as a group you are throwing stones and judging a person.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Let the person without sin throw the first stone. And thou shalt not judge, lest ye be judged.

And of course in essence I am judging people too, with that having been said, I believe that there is a much more mature and legal way that this can be handled.

If you're going to quote the Bible, it would be helpful if you did it in context.

Matthew 7:1-2

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

We're talking about criminal fraud here. Yes, I will be judged by that standard.

Originally Posted by mrsmenopausal

I've seen your rationale concerning the way this side of the Kimkins scam has been handled. So I ask, whats your rationale concerning how the other side of it has been handled?

Baby PHAT, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on that.

Originally Posted by **Lola**

My only complaint/suggestion for these threads is that someone put up a summary of discoveries from the prior thread on the first post of the new thread. It's so hard to keep up.

Great idea. I'd love someone else to do that.

[daisyrat]

Originally Posted by Baby PHAT

Everyone is trying to convince me that Kimmer is wrong and that the way things are being handled are justified. Not one person has addressed the real matter that I have brought up and that is the fact that as a group you are throwing stones and judging a person.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Let the person without sin throw the first stone. And thou shalt not judge, lest ye be judged.

And of course in essence I am judging people too, with that having been said, I believe that there is a much more mature and legal way that this can be handled.

Hi Baby PHAT -- one thing to keep in mind is that Kimmer has quite a history here. If people seem gleeful about her implosion and ready to kick her when she's down ... well, there's a reason for it. This story involves a lot more than just a diet scam, there's many years worth of lies, giving desperate people bad and dangerous advice, telling people they were weak because they couldn't do what SHE did (except she hadn't done it) and so on.

LC

[daisyrat]

Thanks to everyone who came by my blog to see what I wrote about Kimmer. Normally around 10 people read the thing so it was nice to see the jump in traffic. I did find out a little more, you can read it here if you're interested.

It's been a while since I visited. Things have been going well, I finished my doctorate in biochemistry and am in a wonderful relationship. I've been able to maintain my loss pretty much, though I did creep back up a little to 130 for a while ... but that was my goal weight anyway However, I'm back down to 125. I couldn't have done it without this board and the great people on it.

As for the subject of this thread ... it probably makes me a bad person, but remembering how she was and how she treated people, I have to say, I'm loving this.

LC

[OhYeahBabe]

Originally Posted by Baby PHAT

Another thing, did I ONCE say I supported how she handled everything?

See what I'm talking about when I say people on this site gang up on people and have the lynch mob mentality?

You came in here to tell hundreds of people with a common interest that they are wrong or responsible for falling for a con artist. As you would expect, several individuals replied with why they feel how they do. That's not mob mentality. That’s math.

[LChottie07]

Don't know if you all caught it or not, but I do have a new blog up: Misplaced Motivation

My answer to some of the questions/accusations as to why I am doing what I'm doing now. Hopefully it will help others who have questions like BabyPHAT.

Have a good day!

[Barbara B]

And so your solution is that we should just shrug our shoulders and say "Too bad we've been had. Our bad"

We are talking about criminal fraud here, not a little white lie.

I don't understand your statement about it not being handled properly. A group of righteous, intelligent women put their life on hold for months and were able to uncover all the fraud and scams Heidi had perpetrated. Then, they managed to document it and get it on national television. They took it to the legal system. They shared their health issues and helped heal each other. And they should be a lesson to ANYONE on how to *really* do research.

[wifezilla]

Hee! It's De Ja Vu all over again!

Actually, the "lets berate people for noticing the truth and pointing out Kimmer's deceptions and call them names" brigade is a little late. I thought they were on a 3 week schedule. Maybe they were busy

[LadyN]

Originally Posted by Baby PHAT

Sarcasm aside...

So you are telling me that a woman on the internet has the power to force people into doing something without researching it first?

You guys are acting like I'm an advocate for scam artists. LOL no, I'm on your side. You are all misinterpreting what I'm saying.

When I say lynch mob mentality, what I'm speaking of is people who follow the leader. People who are easily manipulated and all too willingly fall into a trap. Exposing Kimmer is one thing but the constant speculation and analyzing and name calling is juvenile.

And of course it's my opinon, that's obvious. I typed it and I meant it.

Everyone is trying to convince me that Kimmer is wrong and that the way things are being handled are justified. Not one person has addressed the real matter that I have brought up and that is the fact that as a group you are throwing stones and judging a person.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Let the person without sin throw the first stone. And thou shalt not judge, lest ye be judged.

And of course in essence I am judging people too, with that having been said, I believe that there is a much more mature and legal way that this can be handled.

You are using that scripture wrong!!! Since you brought it up I will help you interpret it correctly.(very concisely, I don't want to take up space on biblical doctrine) The Bible also says that "you shall know them by their fruits" So what do we do to find out what kind of fruit they produce? WE MAKE A JUDGEMENT BASED ON WHAT IS RIGHT!! Has she produced bad fruit? YES, has she repented? NO!!!!! We are not condemning her to hell (she's doing that to herself) we are judging her ACTIONS!!! Big difference between what is happening here and what the Bible says.


YOu have made your point. Why are you still here. I am just curious why you would continue to engage a lynch mob with a juvenile approach to exposing one that is out to scam and harm. And while I am on the subject, as a Christian I am admonished to help protect those that are not aware of the danger of a thing to do unto others as I would have them do unto me. How should I do that? I do that by constantly sounding the alarm and warning loudly.

Should we just be very quiet and hold our hands and "hope" someone does something? Nothing would have been done if we had taken that attitude.


I also take great offense at the term "lynch Mob" or hanging from a tree. When I think of those things; I think of innocent people being killed because of 'misinformation and blatant lies" We are not lying on Kimmer! She has done all of the lying. Using the term "lynch Mob" is very exaggerated to say the very least. Please lay aside the straw man as Cjane said.

[fluffybear2]

Originally Posted by OhYeahBabe

I don't think it's fair to say they were sheep. They were hurting, depserate people who feel for a con artist. At the time, there were no negative reviews of the diet anywhere. I looked hard. Any grumblings here had been deleted, and google and yahoo answers were flooded with rave reviews & spam. Kimmer, with her phony pictures, 5+ year long trail of lies, phony success stories with phony photos, was pervasive. And people who tried it generally did lose weight. Why is it such a surprise that people fell for it - even people who typically are very analytical and tried hard to find the hidden truth? Have you never been wrong? The lies didn't stop with getting people hooked in, they relentlessly continued, keeping people under the spell, with actual or promised weight loss as the hook.

That is very true. Although I had a run-in with Kimmer on another board, I came here just as the Fascination thread started and I agreed with most people who were posting warnings about the Kimkins diet. But after seeing it in Woman's World and reading the very convincing stuff Jimmy Moore had written about it as well as seeing quite a few positive diet reviews I thought I would give it a try. I was desperate to lose weight because my Dr. said if I didn't I could end up in a wheel-chair. My Dr. had already prescibed a low fat diet for me and told me to severely limit fats. I told her about Kimkins and she approved because it was low fat. So I did a complete flip flop and defended the diet. I too got very defensive because I was losing weight on it.
However as several people pointed out, Kimkins could not be both low fat and low carb without also being very low calorie. Oh I tried my best to get around that fact, but it was almost next to impossible and after about 6 weeks of that I realized that I was not getting enough calories. I never joined the Kimkins website so I didn't feel I really had a dog in the fight as I was just experimenting with the diet. Then I began to read all the facts that were being brought out about Kimmer. It was so much more than just fibbing about her own before and after photos. It was a conscious effort on her part to decieve people for profit. The whole sordid mess is two-pronged. First it is a scam and second it could be dangerous. That is why she had to be stopped. Now BABYPHAT and others may wonder what the big deal is if people are losing weight, but it has been pointed out time after time that there are numerous ways to lose weight, but they are not all healthy and that is why the FTC and the FDA try to weed out the dangerous weight loss methods. Unfortunately someone usually has to die before they do something. That is why this class-action suit is so important because it is the people themselves who took action rather than waiting for government agencies which are notoriously slow to do something. I hope everyone's efforts are eventually rewarded and Heidi is put out of business. I am sorry I wasn't more supportive in the past.

[ShellyW]

just my 2 cents

Deni I am so sorry for feeling like you did in 6th grade... Its always amazing to me how someone can blame the victim and not the perpetrator.

I have not personally been involved with Kimmers. I heard what was going on, and could understand how this kind of scam could happen. I was upset with TT, someone I have know for years taking advantage of people who so want to lose their weight, just like she was in the beginning. How many cycling patterns of diets did TT use? How many times was I asked what she could do to help lose her weight, I was at goal, I could have told her anything, and I think she would have tried it. I will say, I been with this board for years. I have seen people so desperate to lose weight, they will do ANYTHING to lose it. We have seen it since the whole scandal has been exposed. So what if I lose my hair, I will be skinny and It will grow back. How many people have been told by a spouse lose the weight or I will leave you. And some, who just want to find the perfect plan, the one thing that will work for them after so many attempts.

So, this being said. Should Kimmers be exposed? OF COURSE. Should people be warned? OF COURSE. At what cost? Well if your family member or friend were hurt, molested, murdered what would you do to stop the person who did it? We have sites dedicated to publishing all the child molesters, anyone can check to see where they live. Most states have sites where you can check a persons court records. Why would this whole Kimmers scandal be any different. Call me what you think. IF I can save one person from doing damage to themselves, help them to find the healthiest way to lose their weight. Then I can sleep at night knowing I am a good person. But, if I choose to say, hey it’s a scam they were taken what can I do about it they made their choices. How am I better then the person who has promoted the scam? And do any of us believe there are only adults at kimkins? What about the kids who are overweight? Being teased at school? Do you not think they haven’t found this miracle plan? That they are being lead into a way of eating that could harm them for the rest of their lives? Who protects them?

[LadyN]

Originally Posted by Chelveston

In that thread Kimmer responded:


And, she actually told the truth in that thread! No false modesty there!




Those are some strong words you're using there.

From TheFreeDictionary.com (bolding mine)

Noun 1. lynch mob - a mob that kills a person for some presumed offense without legal authority

ju·ve·nile (adj.)
1. Not fully grown or developed; young.
2. Of, relating to, characteristic of, intended for, or appropriate for children or young people: juvenile fashions.
3. Marked by immaturity; childish

You're right that the name calling could be considered juvenile. It's also a stress reliever. I strongly disagree that the speculation and analyzing are juvenile. It's the analyzing and speculations from these threads that led to the discovery of the Russian brides, among other things.

As for "lynch mob," you might want to check the definition. From your definition, you may have chosen "sheep" much more appropriately.

2. sheep - a timid defenseless simpleton who is readily preyed upon
simpleton, simple - a person lacking intelligence or common sense
3. sheep - a docile and vulnerable person who would rather follow than make an independent decision; "his students followed him like sheep"

This group is not a lynch mob. For one thing, their actions have been legal. For another, the ultimate outcome will be decided by a court of law thanks to the filing of the civil suit and appeals to legal authorities for possible criminal charges.



If you're going to quote the Bible, it would be helpful if you did it in context.

Matthew 7:1-2

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.



We're talking about criminal fraud here. Yes, I will be judged by that standard.



Baby PHAT, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on that.



Great idea. I'd love someone else to do that.

I posted before I read your post. Exactly What I wanted to say!!! We

[missis36]

Originally Posted by SMP

Just wondering if TT has managed to see Heidi face to face YET? Will any photos arising from that deposition ever be made public, or is it sacrosanct because it wasn't to assess guilt, but to collect evidence?

And if when she does she will treat her as poorly as she did the lcf admins she bashed for their regain? Not likely since she's a follower to death.

Originally Posted by beckynett

Let me also say my issue is not Kimmer's size. This is a weight loss site.

snipped just wanted to say Becky no one who is on the good side of this fight blames you or anyone else who has come forward! We admire your honesty

Originally Posted by Baby PHAT

Thanx I appreciate that.

No problem I'd love to address something with you. Pardon me for not reading all of the BASHING you have come here to do, but let me ask you this. 2 yrs ago when you were on here asking kimmer to write a book and telling her you'd buy it, how did that work out for you? Did she pay you for helping her get the word out? Or are you her? Either way you just lost credibility in your attempt to discredit the people on here who are actually concerned about others. Bless your heart.

Originally Posted by Baby PHAT

Tigger I'm not thin skinned. I can take it.

Everyone should be able to speak their mind.

But please keep in mind your own involvement in this fiasco.

More of the blame the victim mentality, I just love it. Say, are you blaming Heidi for getting so obese and never NEVER losing the weight? Or is she still a saint in your eyes. (just gathinger this from your previous posts)

Originally Posted by ketosis

Way more than they should have and every single day. The self flagellation for following her advice is nothing compared to the regret expressed by those who encouraged others to follow it.

And I am not an expert on this issue by far.

Again read up on the facts. Don't take my word. I am one person. Read from the start and see the scope of opinions.

Don't worry about it Ketosis, this person is not here to help others simply to see if they can get a rise out of us and or detract.

[SMP]

Originally Posted by Baby PHAT

Okay

I realize that the ladies in question have specific problems with Kimmer. And by them telling their story to keep people from falling into the same trap is great.

But Kimmer didn't hold a gun to their head and make them do the program. They chose to do it and for them to not do any research into rapid weight loss is their own fault.

This is true, but has a specific name - Blame the Victim! All adults should not be so naive as to believe anything an anonymous person writes on the web, right? We should all be cynical, and do exhaustive research, right? And any endorsements made by "successes" - even when you know them - are suspect, right? Then why are you hoping to do Kimkins? It's not biting the hand that slimmed you for Christin and Deni to reveal that they were naive and trusting, and by following the diet as written and encouraged by Kimmer, put themselves in serious jeopardy.

Kimmer is at fault as well, I'm in no way excusing her. But is all of the threads and ganging up on her really necessary?

Absolutely. She is giving low carb diets a bad name, and putting trusting people at severe risk healthwise.

Do you guys realize that the more hits she gets on her site the more money she gets? Everyone is giving her more and more publicity. So now that it has been revealed that she is over 300 pounds and if she loses the weight do you realize the kind of publicity she will get? She will get even more people to join her site.

That's the purpose of the lawsuit - to get the site shut down, and to publicize its dangers. Anybody who joins her site knowingly after this expose is neither naive nor trusting. (But foolish. That info is free on the web, and there are lots of other supportive communities for those that need them.)
And I, for one, would love to see Heidi slimmed down in a healthy manner, since I feel bad for all of us obese people. But I don't think she can, after all the damage she's done over time with yo-yo diets, alcoholism, failed WLS, drugs for weight loss, etc..

[missis36]

Originally Posted by Baby PHAT

I would really like to have a manual of everything you know. I bet you could be a millionaire if you wrote a book. Just look at what you accomplished on your own.

baby phat's previous post from 2 yrs ago.

[marnaewilson]

I've heard that refrain before--"I'm not saying Kimmer's not wrong, I just think..." and then they say that the diet is working, people should blame themselves for doing it and then suffering, all low cal diets cause the Kimkins symptoms, etc.

But when they start the refrain again, it does wake the thread up. And a couple of times, the poster actually realized that Kimmer AND Kimkins were both full of lies and other words we can't say.

[missis36]

Dangit Ketosis, I was all super sleuth, with my post and went back to finish reading and realize you figured it out too way before me....hehehe, that's what I get for trying to catch up. I think I'm gonna let ketosis sub for me when I'm not here. ;D