Why the fascination with Kimmer? #8

[Locarb4me]

Ooooh, Cheryl, that sounds scary! I hope it's not that! I'll be praying for your DH.

On another note, I believe the Admin at KK IS in fact, Kimmer. Along with Danielle Hauck and likely some others. Knowing her personality, she is probably just having herself a good ole' time taking on various fake personas just to keep the ball rolling on Kimkins. I wouldn't be surprised if she, along with other sockpuppets, are posting on the challenges.

The sad truth is, that I'm sure there are newbies joining all the time. So many people have no idea about how bad the diet is, just like all of us here who joined, not knowing. They'll find out eventually, one way or the other, but how much damage will be done in the meantime?

It only took 7 weeks for my thyroid to shut down the rest of the way, my metabolism to slow to almost nonexistent, my hair to begin falling out and anemia to be diagnosed. Needless to say, I did straight Kimkins and K/E.

The ones I do not believe are the ones who have supposedly stuck to the original KK plans and months or even a year later are happy, healthy with no side effects. You can bet your next sugar cookie, those are the fake ones.

The other troubling thing me is, there are so many in there that have tweaked Kimkins and are managing to stick it out. I guess they won't have any problems since they aren't doing Kimkins but rather some adulterated version of Atkins or South Beach, in reality--just calling it Kimkins. Those people will probably come out relatively unscathed.

Then again, why on earth do people pay someone $60 and then not follow their plan but make up another one to suit themselves which they could do for free?

But the ones who don't know the difference between tweaking the plan to stay healthy, and following straight Kimkins (I don't care if they have upped it to 800 calories a day, that's still STARVATION!!), they are the ones I worry about.

I won't be happy til they are shut down for good.

[Dottie]

Originally Posted by Locarb4me

On another note, I believe the Admin at KK IS in fact, Kimmer. Along with Danielle Hauck and likely some others. Knowing her personality, she is probably just having herself a good ole' time taking on various fake personas just to keep the ball rolling on Kimkins. I wouldn't be surprised if she, along with other sockpuppets, are posting on the challenges.

I wonder if she's trying on new personas for her next big scam

[MJR]

Originally Posted by Locarb4me

I won't be happy til they are shut down for good.

I absolutely, 110%, totally & whole heartedly agree with you!

And it can't come too soon for me. The waiting is torture!

[HoneyBee2]

Originally Posted by WildAngel6

You can find his email info on this page: TODAYS CARTOON by Randy Glasbergen

Thank you, I just emailed him.

Originally Posted by Locarb4me

Interesting email in my inbox this morning:

I'm not sure now if I think they are just obstinate over there at Kimkins, arrogant and thumbing their noses, or just plain stupid.

I bet if we went on a crusade we could get Hidey in hot water with lots more copyright infringement and unauthorized use of trademarked graphics.

Just to be a thorn in her side, no other reason

I emailed him just now as well.

[Madam De Leon]

Who knew what and when did they know it?

Jimmy may have caused some damage, but I don't hold him in contempt for what he did any more than I do the well publicized real success stories - Christin, Deni, etc. And just for the record, I don't hold any of them in contempt either, even though it was their success stories that brought so many people to KK. Jimmy's constant promotion of KK, and the affiliate links from his site brought people to KK, but not nearly as many as were brought in by the WW article though! It was the couple of weeks right after the WW article that brought in as many as 35,000 of the 40,000 members. Most of that 35,000 member surge can be attributed directly to the success stories published in WW, which had nothing to do with affiliate links being on Jimmy's site.

If we don't ask that Deni, Christin, and Cartbabe (whose success stories brought people to KK) refrain from talking about the things that are wrong with KK, why should we treat Jimmy any differently? He has always come across as very brash, and he's not completely innocent in all this (especially in the case of changing the commenter's post to look like he was being praised instead of what it really said), but what of the many others on the internet who had affiliate links on their websites, blogs, my space pages, and You Tube videos, without thoroughly checking out the diet? Many of those have also turned their backs on KK now, after promoting it heavily for months. Do we insist that they just shut up and not say anything against it? They should have all done their homework on it - and the ones who are pulling out now actually have the advantage of being able to find out it was a complete scam. Jimmy didn't have that advantage back when he was promoting it.

Have I reached the party to whom I am speaking?

I don't look at the phone call as being some kind of grandstanding or childish prank on his part - he was trying to get a reaction from her about the KTLA stories. He had her phone number from the phone interview. He had her voice on his podcast. Kimmer was flat out claiming on KK that she and Heidi were two different people. I don't blame him for getting another sample of her voice, and to see if he could get some kind of "explanation" from her, or at least audio confirmation that she was lying about Kimmer and Heidi not being one and the same.

The podcast in which he presented the results of this phone call was very well organized, and designed to show any remaining KKer's that Heidi and everything about her site were nothing more than a big scam.

Was it self promotional? Well yeah, of course! But that promotion only reaches as far as his blogs and podcast - its' not like he went on CNN and made a heavily promoted live call to her in front of millions of viewers during sweeps week. Despite the fact that lots of people in the LC world are aware of his blog and podcast, it's not like there are millions who check in there every day. It's still a very limited venue.

The Love Of Money

Yes, he makes money from the affiliate links on his various sites - so do a lot of other bloggers. It was obvious to me that they were affiliate links from the first time I saw them on there.

A full disclosure would have been nice (early on - he has one now, of course), but only the internet-naive would have been inclined to think he'd put all these big flashy links to websites that were selling things, all over his blog, simply because he had no consideration for his readers, who had to scroll down through all that junk to get to his latest post. It was obvious he was doing the affiliate links to make money, which as we know now, is enough to support him and his wife. If you think the KK links must have made him an obscene amount of money, even though those are gone now, he still seems to be making adequate money to take all kinds of trips, and seeing various specialists about infertility problems, etc. He didn't start most of that until after the KK links came down. I don't know about you, but I'd have been putting the brakes on my spending after that, if my biggest cash cow had just gone dry, instead of increasing my spending. So from the way it looks, he must have been getting a very minimal amount of income from the KK links, in comparison to the other links on his site.

About the interviews

I had been reading his blog since before he put up the first KK links, and reading his interviews with various doctors, authors, and yes, Kimmer too. The interviews never really struck me as being conducted in person, and they never really struck me as being phone interviews either. The fact that he would ask a complex question (on the order of "This person says this. I've always done that. This research claims X. You say Y. Can you tell us how you came to this conclusion?"), then there would be a lengthy answer - but generally speaking there was no give and take, no back and forth on a single area of the subject they were discussing - in other words, nothing I would consider to be good "follow-up questions" in his interviews, so they never struck me at all as being "conversational" interviews in any way. His interviews always smacked of being done in writing - in other words, by email. I had no problem with this - I mean this is the internet, and face to face meetings, or even phone conversations with people you meet on the internet are quite out of the ordinary. I couldn't imagine that all of the important people he'd interviewed had found time in their busy schedules to accommodate even a scheduled phone interview, so I assumed that with very few exceptions (which he promoted heavily - such as the interview with... I think it was Ornish), that they were all done via email. So that's how I assumed he did the first Kimmer interview, too. Just saying "You look good today" I assumed was based on the photos she was pawning off as photos of herself.

To Tweak or not to Tweak?

As far as him standing up for her for so long, considering that he thought he was doing Kimkins, while only eating "a little less fat" than he had on Atkins induction, and still eating frankenfoods, it's obvious he really didn't know what the diet was all about. He insisted that he wasn't going very low calorie - and for good reason - He wasn't doing a VLCD because he wasn't really doing KK!

I don't think he bothered to sit down and add up what the plans consisted of (like we have done so many times on here), and choosing to only reduce his fat intake slightly, while still eating his frankenfoods, meant that he was staying at a much more reasonable calorie level than KK promoted, not to mention that by eating the way he did and using FiberCon, he probably never even had reason to wander into areas of the KK forum that promoted the plan behind the plan.

How would one even know about the PBTP, if you never saw it? How would one even know about the constant advice to go lower and lower on calories, if you never saw it?

I suspect Hidey was very happy to have him stay in the parts of the forum that kept him away from that information - she may have even kept plenty of sock puppets posting to him in the areas he frequented, just to make sure he didn't wander into the areas she didn't want him to know about, since she had to have known that he was well aware of the dangers of combining extremely low fat with low carb, he'd had posts about just that very topic on his blog before.

Whose fault is it, anyway?

I tend to think that no one person who promoted her scam is any more at fault than any other. (EXCEPT HEIDI!!!) Are others who promoted her scam responsible for not looking into it further? To a certain degree, yes. Googling for information didn't help much in those days though. Yes, there was information available on LCF, but Jimmy had long since been banned from here, and the ask kimmer thread is quite the behemoth to wade through. If you didn't follow it as it was produced, it would be something akin to going back through and reading all 8 of the fascination threads!

Heidi played all these people like a fine tuned instrument. She's a master manipulator. She conned so many people into forking over their hard earned money to obtain dangerous dietary advice. Some of those were conned into promoting her scam for her. Jimmy was one of them.

~~~~~~~~~

Sorry this is such a long post - I do tend to get carried away....

[LovelyLady]

EXCELLENT post! I totally agree with every word.

Originally Posted by Madam De Leon

Who knew what and when did they know it?

Jimmy may have caused some damage, but I don't hold him in contempt for what he did any more than I do the well publicized real success stories - Christin, Deni, etc. And just for the record, I don't hold any of them in contempt either, even though it was their success stories that brought so many people to KK. Jimmy's constant promotion of KK, and the affiliate links from his site brought people to KK, but not nearly as many as were brought in by the WW article though! It was the couple of weeks right after the WW article that brought in as many as 35,000 of the 40,000 members. Most of that 35,000 member surge can be attributed directly to the success stories published in WW, which had nothing to do with affiliate links being on Jimmy's site.

If we don't ask that Deni, Christin, and Cartbabe (whose success stories brought people to KK) refrain from talking about the things that are wrong with KK, why should we treat Jimmy any differently? He has always come across as very brash, and he's not completely innocent in all this (especially in the case of changing the commenter's post to look like he was being praised instead of what it really said), but what of the many others on the internet who had affiliate links on their websites, blogs, my space pages, and You Tube videos, without thoroughly checking out the diet? Many of those have also turned their backs on KK now, after promoting it heavily for months. Do we insist that they just shut up and not say anything against it? They should have all done their homework on it - and the ones who are pulling out now actually have the advantage of being able to find out it was a complete scam. Jimmy didn't have that advantage back when he was promoting it.

Have I reached the party to whom I am speaking?

I don't look at the phone call as being some kind of grandstanding or childish prank on his part - he was trying to get a reaction from her about the KTLA stories. He had her phone number from the phone interview. He had her voice on his podcast. Kimmer was flat out claiming on KK that she and Heidi were two different people. I don't blame him for getting another sample of her voice, and to see if he could get some kind of "explanation" from her, or at least audio confirmation that she was lying about Kimmer and Heidi not being one and the same.

The podcast in which he presented the results of this phone call was very well organized, and designed to show any remaining KKer's that Heidi and everything about her site were nothing more than a big scam.

Was it self promotional? Well yeah, of course! But that promotion only reaches as far as his blogs and podcast - its' not like he went on CNN and made a heavily promoted live call to her in front of millions of viewers during sweeps week. Despite the fact that lots of people in the LC world are aware of his blog and podcast, it's not like there are millions who check in there every day. It's still a very limited venue.

The Love Of Money

Yes, he makes money from the affiliate links on his various sites - so do a lot of other bloggers. It was obvious to me that they were affiliate links from the first time I saw them on there.

A full disclosure would have been nice (early on - he has one now, of course), but only the internet-naive would have been inclined to think he'd put all these big flashy links to websites that were selling things, all over his blog, simply because he had no consideration for his readers, who had to scroll down through all that junk to get to his latest post. It was obvious he was doing the affiliate links to make money, which as we know now, is enough to support him and his wife. If you think the KK links must have made him an obscene amount of money, even though those are gone now, he still seems to be making adequate money to take all kinds of trips, and seeing various specialists about infertility problems, etc. He didn't start most of that until after the KK links came down. I don't know about you, but I'd have been putting the brakes on my spending after that, if my biggest cash cow had just gone dry, instead of increasing my spending. So from the way it looks, he must have been getting a very minimal amount of income from the KK links, in comparison to the other links on his site.

About the interviews

I had been reading his blog since before he put up the first KK links, and reading his interviews with various doctors, authors, and yes, Kimmer too. The interviews never really struck me as being conducted in person, and they never really struck me as being phone interviews either. The fact that he would ask a complex question (on the order of "This person says this. I've always done that. This research claims X. You say Y. Can you tell us how you came to this conclusion?"), then there would be a lengthy answer - but generally speaking there was no give and take, no back and forth on a single area of the subject they were discussing - in other words, nothing I would consider to be good "follow-up questions" in his interviews, so they never struck me at all as being "conversational" interviews in any way. His interviews always smacked of being done in writing - in other words, by email. I had no problem with this - I mean this is the internet, and face to face meetings, or even phone conversations with people you meet on the internet are quite out of the ordinary. I couldn't imagine that all of the important people he'd interviewed had found time in their busy schedules to accommodate even a scheduled phone interview, so I assumed that with very few exceptions (which he promoted heavily - such as the interview with... I think it was Ornish), that they were all done via email. So that's how I assumed he did the first Kimmer interview, too. Just saying "You look good today" I assumed was based on the photos she was pawning off as photos of herself.

To Tweak or not to Tweak?

As far as him standing up for her for so long, considering that he thought he was doing Kimkins, while only eating "a little less fat" than he had on Atkins induction, and still eating frankenfoods, it's obvious he really didn't know what the diet was all about. He insisted that he wasn't going very low calorie - and for good reason - He wasn't doing a VLCD because he wasn't really doing KK!

I don't think he bothered to sit down and add up what the plans consisted of (like we have done so many times on here), and choosing to only reduce his fat intake slightly, while still eating his frankenfoods, meant that he was staying at a much more reasonable calorie level than KK promoted, not to mention that by eating the way he did and using FiberCon, he probably never even had reason to wander into areas of the KK forum that promoted the plan behind the plan.

How would one even know about the PBTP, if you never saw it? How would one even know about the constant advice to go lower and lower on calories, if you never saw it?

I suspect Hidey was very happy to have him stay in the parts of the forum that kept him away from that information - she may have even kept plenty of sock puppets posting to him in the areas he frequented, just to make sure he didn't wander into the areas she didn't want him to know about, since she had to have known that he was well aware of the dangers of combining extremely low fat with low carb, he'd had posts about just that very topic on his blog before.

Whose fault is it, anyway?

I tend to think that no one person who promoted her scam is any more at fault than any other. (EXCEPT HEIDI!!!) Are others who promoted her scam responsible for not looking into it further? To a certain degree, yes. Googling for information didn't help much in those days though. Yes, there was information available on LCF, but Jimmy had long since been banned from here, and the ask kimmer thread is quite the behemoth to wade through. If you didn't follow it as it was produced, it would be something akin to going back through and reading all 8 of the fascination threads!

Heidi played all these people like a fine tuned instrument. She's a master manipulator. She conned so many people into forking over their hard earned money to obtain dangerous dietary advice. Some of those were conned into promoting her scam for her. Jimmy was one of them.

~~~~~~~~~

Sorry this is such a long post - I do tend to get carried away....

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by Katinsac

About the lawsuit you guys were discussing lastnight...there are a lot more than the 13 people who are showing on the suit. If you notice there is a comment in the suit that says something to the affect that someone lives in the same town or county the Kimmer lives in, or something like that, therefore the suit is valid. Can't remember the exact words. A Class Action Lawsuit covers everyone who was ever involved with that company if approved by the courts so yes, even those "believers (and TT)" would be covered if he wins. They lawyer would get his money first and than anything left over would be distributed to the plaintiffs. Now....it all depends on what they can recover from Kimmer. I'm sure there is no money to be found. Doubt the car will bring in much for him. My opinion is I just want her shut down so no one gets hurt and I'm so thankfully that someone listened to Jeanessa and took the case. Hopefully, we will see some results from it (site shut down). I'd love to see her go to jail but not sure that will happen or if we'd know if it did but with KTLA following stuff...we might but it probably won't be from the lawsuit, I think the AG would have to follow up or the IRS, etc. Hopefully, Chip will keep his eyes open to events in the future.

I think you've got a pretty good take on things.

[Violet Skye]

On a lighter note, I had a Kimmer dream last night - she was on trial and the "Fascination" gang showed up, all of us wearing red dresses and carrying toy ducks! The cameras were *fascinated* by us, I have to say - as Tippy once memorably wrote, there were "pop-a-rozzie" galore for this media circus!

[lala]

this was sent to me in an email from KK site i dont know but they did:
Want more proof that Kimkins works as promised?


How about People magazine, January 3, 2007 entitled Half Their Size? Yes, we have a weight loss success story, Mary Smith, on the cover who credits the Kimkins plan as part of her success! but i got this from a screen shot i did at People website



i dont get it why does the article on the PEOPLE website state ATKINS as how She did it but the kk statement says that KK is the reason? i didnt see the article when it came out i wish i did cause i love Cartbabe i think she is great! i was just thinking out loud so if im wrong please correct me

[lala]

Originally Posted by MissMerize

I managed to shower today and shave my legs. Load of laundry going, set up a new monitor for my computer, cleaned my room, took out the trash, got on the scale and I'm down 6 pounds from a week ago.

Might actually get some things done today

Think I'll try to make a turkey meat loaf now with some bacon on top. YUM.

WTG!

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by lala

this was sent to me in an email from KK site i dont know but they did:
Want more proof that Kimkins works as promised?


How about People magazine, January 3, 2007 entitled Half Their Size? Yes, we have a weight loss success story, Mary Smith, on the cover who credits the Kimkins plan as part of her success! but i got this from a screen shot i did at People website



i dont get it why does the article on the PEOPLE website state ATKINS as how She did it but the kk statement says that KK is the reason? i didnt see the article when it came out i wish i did cause i love Cartbabe i think she is great! i was just thinking out loud so if im wrong please correct me

Cartbabe mentioned Kimkins as how she lost part of the weight in the People article and Kimkins ran with it. If you search Cartbabe's posts here, you will see that she has mentioned this in the past and gone on record with her feelings about the whole thing...or go over to Jimmy's and ask her, I believe she posts there.

[Madam De Leon]

Originally Posted by lala

this was sent to me in an email from KK site i dont know but they did:
Want more proof that Kimkins works as promised?


How about People magazine, January 3, 2007 entitled Half Their Size? Yes, we have a weight loss success story, Mary Smith, on the cover who credits the Kimkins plan as part of her success! but i got this from a screen shot i did at People website



i dont get it why does the article on the PEOPLE website state ATKINS as how She did it but the kk statement says that KK is the reason? i didnt see the article when it came out i wish i did cause i love Cartbabe i think she is great! i was just thinking out loud so if im wrong please correct me

Actually, it looks kinda like they're starting to promote Atkins as "The NEW Kimkins", what with all the talk about the cycling plan.

If I recall correctly, Cartbabe lost nearly all her weight with Atkins, but had switched to KK for the last few stubborn pounds. KK was barely given a mention in the People article, and CB says she regrets even mentioning it.

So who knows? Maybe Cartbabe got to People and had them correct the online version of the story to reflect the truth.

[OhYeahBabe]

Originally Posted by Elloise

For me, it's so hard to get past the fact that he was editing negative posts to appear that people were praising him and agreeing with him. We expected that sort of behavior from Kimmer, but to see him do it, too....... I don't know. I don't think he'll ever win back my respect. I don't care if he apologized for it. He apologized after he got caught.

He apologized because he got caught.

[Keepugesin]

So Jimmy is a "suspicious" character at best as well??

[ixtapacheryl]

Locarb4me thank you for your concern. He said that the doc is just ruling out a hernia I didn't know you could get a hernia in the center of your chest below your rib cage....

You know what I was thinking .... wouldn't it be something if the attorneys asked Heidi for the names/phone numbers/addresses of the administrators that are posting on her site? If she is in fact the "behind the scenes administrators" .... she wouldn't be able to give them the info because they don't exist..... Innocently he could just say that he wants to contact the people for more info. She'd be dead meat because these people don't exist...... More lies!

[susique333]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicsmom
This reminds me of when KK first started up and Tippy was so vindictive that she talked about having a KK "pig roast" at the same place on the same weekend as the LCF pig roast. She went on to talk about how all the KK'ers would be so much thinner than the LCF peeps and how they would put LCF to shame. It was disgusting, and shows how she thinks.


I wish I could remember the page in this thread where someone quoted Tippy when she was laughing that her husband had a rectal exam due to blood in his stool. TT then said it was "Pay backs" for when he had told her she wasnt small enough to wear such & such an outfit. The way I see it is, blood in stool=possible cancer and shes laughing?? She is a vengeful person.

[Violet Skye]

So Jimmy is a "suspicious" character at best as well??

No, I wouldn't say that. Jimmy's made some missteps along the way, but he's apologized every time, to the point of self-flagellation. One of his best traits is his willingness to admit he's wrong, which isn't something many people are good at. Actually, Jimmy's a bit like Michael Scott from "The Office" - he's over the top in his enthusiasm, and sometimes things don't come out the way they should, but he's good people.

[MissMerize]

What I mean is that all of the plans produce a weight loss of about a lb a day. So, bootcamp is used more by those who have slowed up a little. This doesn't have to be hard--you'll see! Again, if I can help you at all just let me know. I look forward to seeing your progress!



This was posted by Tippy Toesinhermouth. Wow, a pound a day. I wonder if those vegetarians are losing a pound a day. Not mention that current weight has a huge factor in how fast you lose. People must be going pretty low on the cals to lose a pound a day after a couple of months.

[Magicsmom]

Originally Posted by Mayberryfan

IMHO, he tries to promote himself as the web's "Low-Carb Messiah" and I think this is what led him to get involved with Heidi in the first place. It's the old "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality. But, I do think he was scammed by her, FWIW.

See, this is why I you guys... Great minds think alike!

IMHO, Jimmy is a Johnny-come-lately to low carbing. There were many who came before him, and many of them were/are found here giving out advice and not expecting anything in return.

Originally Posted by quiggley

She must really miss the LCF Pigroast since she is trying to totally recreate it there.

Totally!!!

Originally Posted by Mariasol

That post is no longer there. I searched for it while I was still a member but it got lost in the board change. However, I'm sure you remember when she said the same on this board around the same time frame:



This post got edited here by the admins (and rightly so ) and Tippy complained about this on kimkins.

I am so glad someone remembers it besides me!

Originally Posted by ixtapacheryl

Locarb4me thank you for your concern. He said that the doc is just ruling out a hernia I didn't know you could get a hernia in the center of your chest below your rib cage....

I believe that is a hiatal hernia. I hope all will be well with your DH.

Originally Posted by susique333

I wish I could remember the page in this thread where someone quoted Tippy when she was laughing that her husband had a rectal exam due to blood in his stool. TT then said it was "Pay backs" for when he had told her she wasnt small enough to wear such & such an outfit. The way I see it is, blood in stool=possible cancer and shes laughing?? She is a vengeful person.

I will find it for you!!