Why the fascination with Kimmer? #4

[mrsmenopausal]

Originally Posted by Dottie

lol BTW I did go pick my son up at school and I did make dinner No neglect here.

I need to vacuum but don't tell anyone. k?

[Mommy2Many]

Originally Posted by mrsmenopausal

I can see what you're saying. I followed it like I was supposed to but I hold Kimmer/Heidi responsible. I didn't know any better. It was her plan. It was how she lost her weight. She said it was healthy and safe.

Not just her - EVERYONE said it was safe and effective. In the two months I was active on that site, and actively trying to follow the diet, NO WHERE did I read that people were having problems. I was worried at first because I DIDN'T feel SNATT - but then I read that some people didn't... and that was ok, as long as you were FOLLOWING THE PLAN - not tweaking.

I followed there, just like I follow here - reading all and posting little - but I too want the starvation advice inaccessible to people as stupid and un lc educated as I was / am... and I'd like to see the woman who tricked me out of my $59.95 do a little bit of work for the state for it.

JMO

[mrsmenopausal]

Originally Posted by anipomoni

THYROID WEIGHT RESEARCH

http://www.hormoneandlongevitycenter...n_Obesity1.pdf

Effect of a high-protein, very-low-calorie diet on...[Am J Clin Nutr. 1987] - PubMed Result

Resting metabolic rate, body composition and thyroid hormones. Short term effects of very low calorie diet.

Energy-metabolism adaptation in obese adults on a very-low-calorie diet -- Fricker et al. 53 (4): 826 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

index

Low Carbohydrate Nutrition: Research on the Safety of Very Low Calorie Diets

Thanks!! I'm saving your links for me and I'm going to check those out after I get my first set of tests back. I'm too on edge about those right now and don't want to read anything that's going to push me over it.

[HoneyBee2]

Originally Posted by jeanessa

You bring up good and very valid points here.
Can I just say that a lot of the fat-bashing that goes on here stems from the very thing that I believe Hiedi was able to exploit in all of us? Our desire to be thin frequently borders on hatred for our own fat, or overweight.
I have posted time and again here about learning to love ourselves and not looking for validity and worthiness to come through weight loss. A few people have listened but many have ignored it.
This is a much larger issue than Hiedi Diaz, but really delves into the fabric of our culture.
I think that speaking out for what you believe to be right and calling out this negative behavior is a good thing and applaud you for it.
That being said - the anger, frustration and emotion here in this situation is bound to end up causing people to act in ways that offend some.

I agree that everyone has a different idea of what is humor or poking fun. I do agree that being obese is looked down upon in this society. I don't even let my children use the term "fat" when speaking or describing someone. No more than I allow them to use race or religion in a description of someone. (My husband jokes about Catholic guilt but says he earned that right after 10 years in Catholic school. )

But would it also be fair to say that one should consider the context in which this thread was written and the various pictures have been posted?

The idea of being "fat" is not being used to describe Kimmer but to prove her lies and to demonstrate her absurd behavior. To show her as a fraud. So in this way it would not apply to most of us that are obese. Most obese people are not those things.

I say this because I personally, being a person who still needs to lose 50pounds+, view the pictures and comments more as Hedi/Kimmer Bashing....Not fat-Bashing.

[SMP]

Originally Posted by mrsmenopausal

I can see what you're saying. I followed it like I was supposed to but I hold Kimmer/Heidi responsible. I didn't know any better. It was her plan. It was how she lost her weight. She said it was healthy and safe.

I agree. In all of this, the blame falls squarely on Heidi, not her victims that knew enough about low carb to eat sensibly. Some of them did try to help others, but were slapped down, often by Kimmer herself. So what were they supposed to do? We have seen from ex-KK's how difficult it was for them to accept the advice given elsewhere. They labeled them Negative Nancies, haters and who knows what all; and closed their ears and eyes tightly until some event shook them awake. The treatment dished out to the Old Guard who stepped out of their safe little hideouts was just about as nasty. Let me ask - are they still there? Most have fled by now, appalled by the toxic climate prevailing on KK. They are every bit as much victims as the ones who hung onto Kimmer's advice as gospel. So let's not blame them as well. Blame Heidi!

[GinaC]

Originally Posted by mrsmenopausal

I know. I was just saying that I hold kimmer/heidi responsible. I didn't post there until right before I was banned. I think I had like maybe 7 posts.

I hold her responsible too for creating an environment where those who could have helped you didn't. I just don't understand how they could stay there and ignore what was happening to you. How could they remain quiet?

Once you found out, you spoke up and were banned. Others who knew also spoke up and were banned too.

But what about the ones who won't speak out? I think that they bear a little of the responsibility now. Not for the site's beginnings but for the present because people are being hurt right now by their silence.

[anipomoni]

Originally Posted by mrsmenopausal

Thanks!! I'm saving your links for me and I'm going to check those out after I get my first set of tests back. I'm too on edge about those right now and don't want to read anything that's going to push me over it.

I am new at this too but I've done a lot of research. Let me know if I can point you to any other info.

[regandy]

Originally Posted by jayed

Missi,

You know I love ya, girl, right? However, it is nota good idea for Regandy to do anything with that money other than pay it back or put it in escrow. Giving it to Kim or using it to help fight the cause will cause trouble than it's worth.

Okay... I admit it was an amusing thought!

But, alas, the money went back today. I didn't want to owe her ANYTHING!!

And now I don't. And for the curious, there are still 54 people signed up for the "low carb diet buddies" cruise.... and almost ALL of them were relieved that it was no longer connected to kimkins/kimmer in any way! Christin and Deni are still signed up and we are planning on a good time. By February, hopefully this controversy will be a distant memory.

Carry on!

[CarolynF]

Originally Posted by regandy

Okay... I admit it was an amusing thought!

But, alas, the money went back today. I didn't want to owe her ANYTHING!!

And now I don't. And for the curious, there are still 54 people signed up for the "low carb diet buddies" cruise.... and almost ALL of them were relieved that it was no longer connected to kimkins/kimmer in any way! Christin and Deni are still signed up and we are planning on a good time. By February, hopefully this controversy will be a distant memory.

Carry on!

You guys will have a ball!!!! Where exactly is the cruise going to??

[stardust1]

Okay, I just took a shower with my husband and the dishes in the tub, that'll do for today. Gotta relax a little now.......

[mrsmenopausal]

Originally Posted by Mommy2Many

Not just her - EVERYONE said it was safe and effective. In the two months I was active on that site, and actively trying to follow the diet, NO WHERE did I read that people were having problems. I was worried at first because I DIDN'T feel SNATT - but then I read that some people didn't... and that was ok, as long as you were FOLLOWING THE PLAN - not tweaking.

I followed there, just like I follow here - reading all and posting little - but I too want the starvation advice inaccessible to people as stupid and un lc educated as I was / am... and I'd like to see the woman who tricked me out of my $59.95 do a little bit of work for the state for it.

JMO

I didn't realize at the time that those members stating that their doctors approved were most likely not divulging the amount of calories and fats they were consuming and those posts put to rest any second thoughts I was having. I was also reading other posts where people were told the dizziness was normal so I disregarded my episodes of it. There was a lot of recommendations to lower calories, too. It made me feel like my calories were okay. When I wanted to ask about the problems I was having I was afraid to. So many had been banned for asking questions, raising eyebrows. When I got banned, I knew I had been had. I knew it wasn't about the members, it as about the money. I was nothing more than a quick, effortless $60. The moment I required some help I was kicked out. Then to read the PMs talking about accidentally banning me on the web, well ... didn't I feel special? They didn't care if I needed help. They only cared about me possibly being trouble for them. Any doubts I had sure were put to rest quick by those PMs.

I want it inaccessible, too. I think it's very dangerous.

[anipomoni]

Originally Posted by HoneyBee2

The idea of being "fat" is not being used to describe Kimmer but to prove her lies and to demonstrate her absurd behavior. To show her as a fraud. [/size]

Exactly! I don't know how many new ways we can come up with to express this. I've tried, but I will try one more.

Let's say "Betty" came up with her own plus size clothing line based on the fact that she is very plus sized and knows how hard it is to find clothes. And she is posting pictures of herself in her plus sized clothes, and doing interviews, and charging for membership to her site and forums, and answering questions on how she goes about life as a plus size woman in america, and spreading the word far and wide. Well what would happen if it comes out that "Betty" is really 130 lb, personal trainer with the body of a god, who has no IDEA what it's like to be plus sized?? Umm...well...nothing wrong with being 130 lbs right? But in this context....YES, THERE IS!! There is something very wrong with being 130 lbs!
Just like there is something very wrong with "Kimmer" being FAT!

[CarolynF]

Mrs.M: I am sure those ladies didn't walk share that they were eating very low calories with their doctors at all. In fact, Christin's cardiologist was shocked at the KK diet when she explained it to him after her "episode" last week. If a doctor thinks it is fine to eat
500 calories a day UNSUPERVISED by him on a weekly basis, then he should have his license revoked.

I wish high school would teach nutrition as part of their curriculum so that these kids could learn how to eat in a healthy way. They learn it in the lower grades, but not as a required class in high school.

[mrsmenopausal]

Originally Posted by SMP

The treatment dished out to the Old Guard who stepped out of their safe little hideouts was just about as nasty. Let me ask - are they still there? Most have fled by now, appalled by the toxic climate prevailing on KK. They are every bit as much victims as the ones who hung onto Kimmer's advice as gospel. So let's not blame them as well. Blame Heidi!

I agree with you. It's so hard to explain what it was like there. I can't even imagine being a member there now. From what I've seen in writing what it's like there now makes my time there seem like the height of support. At least there were caring admins for most of my time there.

[wantingtoloose]

Originally Posted by Locarb4me

Please...hold on a second.

On this thread all you're going to find are people who are out to stop Heidi Diaz. Interspersed is some fun and some cutting up, and yes some snark and sarcasm tossed in. A lot of people who have been HURT by Kimmer and by many of the others in Kimkins are here trying to find ways to deal with their emotions. Naturally, there are going to be various ways of doing that.

Do I agree with every post and comment? No.
Do I expect everyone here to think I'm an awesome poster and always the voice of wisdom and reason? No.
Have I taken my potshots at Hidey and Melt? Sure I have.

That is what this entire thread is about.

But for you to say this:
seems to me just a wee bit overdramatic. I thought I saw you on Jimmy's forum. Now there is a nice place. Most of the really nice people coming out of KK are gathering there. Further, this is the ONE ISOLATED place in LCF where you would not feel comfortable. The rest of this site is a great place for support, learning and losing!

I'm sure we can all agree that at times things have been said here that were hurtful or out of hand. Shoot, I've done it myself. I've even asked the mods to remove a comment! But the mods have done a good job of moderating.

I agree with you, Vandy, that perhaps most of the time posts should not be taken out of context and posted here. Actually I can see the issue of almost anyone's post from KK site being brought here, unless it is one of the nasties, who IMO are now fair game.

I don't know, I just think people need to expect when they come in to read an acknowledged inflammatory thread, they need to put their thick skin on.

I agree also there has been a lot of ugliness on both sides. I'm still a member of Kimkins, so I do know what is going on. And that place is a cesspool for the most part these days.

Exelent response

[CarolynF]

Eve: You have a good point..NO ONE cares if Kimmer is large..WE CARE that she sold her diet plan on the fact that that is how she lost 200 pounds and she never did it!!! WE CARE that she made other people feel they weren't "tough" enough to do her diet when she wasn't even doing it herself. WE CARE that she lied on Jimmy's podcast and said that she has maintained her weight from 118-125 for 5 or 6 years!!

It is hard to lose weight..It is even harder to keep it off..and to me, to deceive us here at LCF as well as her paying clients is horrible.

[mrsmenopausal]

Originally Posted by GinaC

I hold her responsible too for creating an environment where those who could have helped you didn't. I just don't understand how they could stay there and ignore what was happening to you. How could they remain quiet?

Once you found out, you spoke up and were banned. Others who knew also spoke up and were banned too.

But what about the ones who won't speak out? I think that they bear a little of the responsibility now. Not for the site's beginnings but for the present because people are being hurt right now by their silence.

It would have been nice to have the information and to have those in the know say something (and some did speak up) but for whatever reason they had, they didn't feel comfortable doing so. I can't profess to know what they were going through themselves and I can't hold them responsible for what went on there. I see this as Kimmer/Heidi's fault. It was her business, her false claims, her advice .. all of it. Now it's a different story. Plans and advice are coming from the admins, too. I believe they've gotten themselves into trouble by doing that. I think K/H knew exactly what she was doing when she had them be the ones to give out that info. She's still responsible for that but now I suspect they'll be sharing the responsibility with her.

[mrsmenopausal]

Originally Posted by anipomoni

I am new at this too but I've done a lot of research. Let me know if I can point you to any other info.

Thank you. I really appreciate that!

[mrsmenopausal]

Originally Posted by stardust1

Okay, I just took a shower with my husband and the dishes in the tub, that'll do for today. Gotta relax a little now.......

wait a minute there missy ... you still have a movie to watch!! stop slackin'!

[HoneyBee2]

Originally Posted by Woman Typing Badly

I offer for your consideration that KKers question that due to the snideness, sarcasm, mockery of fat people (regardless of who they are) etc that goes on elsewhere. Can I also say that I do not weigh much less than what guestimates have been of the weight of the person in the PI's pics?
The things I have heard said about her weight and physical appearance, regardless of whether I or she are scam artists, rings so ugly in my consciousness and spirit.
Regardless of whether my ethics are the same of another 200+pound person.... if our appearances are the same and that is mocked, in my mind it may as well be about me.
And I do not believe I am alone in this.
People keep saying they don't want me or other people at that site to be hurt and really try to understand the lack of authenticity that statement appears to have. Hurt can be emotional and mental as well as physcial.....
If the truth is what everyone wants they can rest assured the truth from my perspective as having a place on both sites was just posted.

Can I point out that it is not that her being fat that most members are using as comic relief it is the fact that she claimed to have lost weight and to be quite small now. She used her claimed weight loss to belittle those of us still obese. That is how her appearance now is found to humorous......

The context of the entire story and the picture need to be considered before claiming it is "mockery of fat people".
For example:
If someone is a let’s say prominent stylist and a fashion critic of the stars and they are captured in photos with clearly “bad hair” days. The pictures show their hair looking totally the opposite than what they promote or try to belittle others about then yes there would be jokes.

Now should all stylists be up in arms because the jokes were made about a stylist or should everyone who was having a bad hair day be upset or take it as a personal jab?

I would say NO because it was the context of the picture and how it related to the person in the story.

I have bad hairs almost everyday but I wouldn't take the pictures of the "stylist to the stars" and the comments as a personal insult. I would not find it to be an overview of opinions about me.

The point being that being obese is not the same as being an obese person who lied about it, belittled people over it, charged people for THEIR weight loss tips based on THEIR weight loss, and committed fraud. Therefore, I don't see me when I see that obese person I see Kimmer for who she REALLY is.....and obese is not what comes to my mind

[GinaC]

Originally Posted by SMP

I agree. In all of this, the blame falls squarely on Heidi, not her victims that knew enough about low carb to eat sensibly. Some of them did try to help others, but were slapped down, often by Kimmer herself. So what were they supposed to do? We have seen from ex-KK's how difficult it was for them to accept the advice given elsewhere. They labeled them Negative Nancies, haters and who knows what all; and closed their ears and eyes tightly until some event shook them awake. The treatment dished out to the Old Guard who stepped out of their safe little hideouts was just about as nasty. Let me ask - are they still there? Most have fled by now, appalled by the toxic climate prevailing on KK. They are every bit as much victims as the ones who hung onto Kimmer's advice as gospel. So let's not blame them as well. Blame Heidi!

Yes some are still there. In fact it was this quote tonight that got me started: (bolding is mine)

Originally Posted by Vandy J.

Fair questions Dottie. I have been at Kimkins long enough to have paid only 14.99 for the membership.......
As I have mentioned before, I am a skeptic. I always did think Kimmer was a bit full of herself when she was here and over there. I never did feel certain that everything she said was true, but that is how I feel about any info I received on the internet. I was not shocked about the pics. It did make me sad, that someone could live such a lie. It disappointed me greatly that she refused to address the accusations, and in my mind proved them to be true. But I have found no fault with the diet as written. (please do not beat me over the head, guys) I am just being honest. I took atkins and dropped the net carbs, lowered my fat and calories. No, I never tried to live on 500 cals a day. I know some did, but from my experience they were on the extreme edge of things. (just my experience...maybe not the whole truth). I guess I never did base my faith in the diet by what Heidi said, or her pictures. I got the results I was hoping for. I did not suffer any dire consequences or health issues. So, I do not want to join a lynch mob and I do not want to defend a liar. But I will not pretend that I did not benefit from the plan, because I did.

You are one of the most outspoken posters on this thread and will let folks have it if you think that something said is unjust or just plain wrong. In fact you've smacked me around a little (but I deserved it)!! That's the way that it should be. You have a very strong moral compass that will not let you remain quiet.

I believe that in the beginning, all of the blame belonged to Heidi but there is too much evidence out there now, today to say that others are blameless if they know and don't speak out. That's really all I'm saying.