Why the fascination with Kimmer? #2

[GypsyVisions]

Originally Posted by SMP

In fact, Tyna knows who Heidi is. And Heidi told us she's Kimmer, in both words and deeds. But even smart cookies get dunked, and this is a slam dunk!

Darn straight!

[dlslds]

Originally Posted by DivaHerself

Funny, I didn't see any self-serving justification of the fundraising for imaginary foster kids yet.

yup, nothing of importance was touched upon and I guess it wont be as we read here

"I will not be responding further or answering any questions at this point. "


whatever

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by SMP

To recap, Heidi/Kimmer is getting sued. Why?
Is it because her diet works? No, because obviously starving causes weight loss.
Is it because her diet is dangerous as written? No, because adults can make a choice to follow it or not.
Is it because she sold the Plan for $60.? No, no matter what she sold it for, that's called capitalism.
Is it because she lied about losing her weight and keeping it off with this diet? YES! That's the biggest part, since deliberate misrepresentation is fraud. Her "health advice" that causes serious medical issues is part of that fraud, since most of her claims run counter to scientific studies.
As for the rest of the lies that she told in order to present herself as guru and Savior, although fraudulent, they don't seem to be litigious, but provide good background for the legal issues.

Did I miss the main points? Anybody have anything to add?

Yes, I have something to add.

People often compare Kimkins to Atkins and say that the mainstream scientific medical community has bashed low-carb eating the same way that we are bashing Kimkins. It's apples and oranges.

Dr. Atkins was a doctor who conducted research, did studies and tested his theory through the scientific method in order to challenge the mainstream weightloss community.

It took him medical school and years to develop the plan and when he did, he went through rigourous testing before he ever wrote the book and put it out there for consumer consumption, abiding by state and federal laws when he did.

To compare his lifetime of work, to a woman of questionable character who purpotes to have eaten mere hundreds of calories daily in order to shed excess weight that she may or may not have actually lost and/or sustained is beyond ridiculous.

[DoritoFrito]

I'm curious, since the Kimkins site is still up and still accepting new victims, will the class action suit cover people who join Kimkins after a certain date?

[GypsyVisions]

Originally Posted by jeanessa

To compare his lifetime of work, to a woman of questionable character who purpotes to have eaten mere hundreds of calories daily in order to shed excess weight that she may or may not have actually lost and/or sustained is beyond ridiculous.

[Lisa46]

Originally Posted by DivaHerself

Funny, I didn't see any self-serving justification of the fundraising for imaginary foster kids yet.

Exactly. Tippy, if you would have just offered something...anything...about this issue, it would have spoken volumes. As it is, well, it's spoken volumes...

[FirmJuneBug]

Atkins figured out lowcarb worked for him, trying it out after reading about some doctor earlier in the century, who discovered weight came off quickly when carbs in the diet were reduced. Too be fair, he sort of experimented on himself and his patients with the diet. He prescribed the diet to patients and happily discovered their cholesterol levels went down, helping reverse heart disease. His book was published based on his own experiences, not studies - those came a lot later, but the point is he had real data and actually followed his own diet.

Him and Kimmer are nothing alike.

[marnaewilson]

Yes, I would add that she sold a product and then banned people from accessing it. No warnings, no refunds, no ethics.

[SkeeterN]

My DH said, Eek if I were Kimmer I'd be going on that snatt diet quick! Cause when she comes face to face with the law and the press she is gonna look mighty chubby on the TV. LOL

I said well her pictures were taken by that PI. He said NO I am talking about when she is arrested for fraud! Which DH seems to think is just a matter of time.

[controlledcarb]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

Once again hair loss and menstrual irregularities can be from any type of weight loss program not just Kimkins. I am not a Kimkins fan or follower but this is just scientific fact.

Actually, it's not "scientific fact" ... it's a warning sign that something is interferring with normal function of the reproductive system; in the case of Kimkins it is inadequate calories and malnutrition. Period.

[controlledcarb]

Originally Posted by FirmJuneBug

Atkins figured out lowcarb worked for him, trying it out after reading about some doctor earlier in the century, who discovered weight came off quickly when carbs in the diet were reduced. Too be fair, he sort of experimented on himself and his patients with the diet. He prescribed the diet to patients and happily discovered their cholesterol levels went down, helping reverse heart disease. His book was published based on his own experiences, not studies - those came a lot later, but the point is he had real data and actually followed his own diet.

Him and Kimmer are nothing alike.

Atkins took the diet he read about in JAMA, from a study that showed beneficial results in the subjects, and tried it himself....it worked....so his basis was from a peer of his time, not earlier in the century. But, data is also out there from the late 19th century and throughout the 20th that he did read and include in his justification for the dietary approach.

[dlslds]

Originally Posted by controlledcarb

Actually, it's not "scientific fact" ... it's a warning sign that something is interferring with normal function of the reproductive system; in the case of Kimkins it is inadequate calories and malnutrition. Period.

ty Controlledcarb

o btw can the same be said about impaired thyroid function?

[LINC]

Originally Posted by mauitammy

Jimmy Moore is reporting on his website that Dateline NBC is investigating and plans a story.

I thought there was a link here to the forum where he says that, but I think it's gone. But did anyone read what the ex-kimkims people had to say about it? They were pretty concerned that private information they posted at Kimkims site would be dragged out and put on TV. It's a legitimate concern. The more sensational the material is, the more people are going to watch. Can you imagine how you'd feel if someone started going through the posts here at LCF and quoted you on national TV? Even if your identity is hidden by a screen name, there's always the possibility someone will recognize who you are. In addition to being scammed out of money, deceived by an unhealthy diet and being lied to by their founder, these people could now face the possibility of having their stories and aspects of their personal lives aired on national TV. And I doubt Heidi will care. She'll probably GIVE them quotes from other people to take the heat off herself.

Lou

[Doodle_in_MA]

Originally Posted by LINC

And I doubt Heidi will care. She'll probably GIVE them quotes from other people to take the heat off herself.

Lou

I hope for the sake of the people whowere unknowingly helping her that this doesn't happen, but If I were them I'd watch out for Kimmer's backhand when you are anywhere near the bus

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by controlledcarb

Actually, it's not "scientific fact" ... it's a warning sign that something is interferring with normal function of the reproductive system; in the case of Kimkins it is inadequate calories and malnutrition. Period.

Funny that's the first thing I was taught after WLS surgery by a licensed nutritionist and a medical doctor. Also was told that estrogen is stored in fat and when rapidly burning fat this estrogen is released into the bloodstream and for some women changes in TOM can occur and you are also more fertile at this time. As I stated I am not a Kimkins follower. Where did you say your medical degree was from?

[controlledcarb]

Originally Posted by dlslds

ty Controlledcarb

o btw can the same be said about impaired thyroid function?

vLCD diets can impair thyroid function and unlike menstrual cycle disruptions has the potential to become a permanent condition.

[DoritoFrito]

Originally Posted by SkeeterN

My DH said, Eek if I were Kimmer I'd be going on that snatt diet quick! Cause when she comes face to face with the law and the press she is gonna look mighty chubby on the TV. LOL

Yep, and we all know the camera adds at least 10 lbs (more in my case).

Originally Posted by SkeeterN

...when she is arrested for fraud! Which DH seems to think is just a matter of time.

I'm surprised it's taking so long, but then again I suppose the more evidence they have, the stronger the case will be.

And - aside from the dangerous effects of the diet -

Between the magazine article, deceptive advertising, collecting donations for fake foster kids, not filing a DBA in the City of Corona, not paying taxes, and banning lifetime members - I won't be one bit surprised to see her on TV.

I bet her apartment complex management would be interested to know she's running a business from her apartment (a no-no in every place I've ever rented in CA).

Now, the only thing I'm worried about is that for at least a short time, it will turn into a high-profile case - hence, she'll get a free lawyer who wants the publicity. She'll do a little prison time, and come back with a book deal and rights to the mini-series.

[Doodle_in_MA]

Originally Posted by DoritoFrito

Now, the only thing I'm worried about is that for at least a short time, it will turn into a high-profile case - hence, she'll get a free lawyer who wants the publicity. She'll do a little prison time, and come back with a book deal and rights to the mini-series.

Maybe Jacklyn Smith will be available to play Kimmer

[controlledcarb]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

Funny that's the first thing I was taught after WLS surgery by a licensed nutritionist and a medical doctor. Also was told that estrogen is stored in fat and when rapidly burning fat this estrogen is released into the bloodstream and for some women changes in TOM can occur and you are also more fertile at this time. As I stated I am not a Kimkins follower. Where did you say your medical degree was from?

You do realize that WLS is often a permanent state of malnutrition?

So far as liberation of estrogen into the system with fat loss, yes that can also lead to menstrual cycle irregularities, often the opposite of amenorrhea....often it's closer cycles, heavier cycles and cycles that last much longer than previously.....and that resolves itself with time. Amenorrhea, from calorie intake that is inadequate or due to malnutrition is not resolved with time - it's resolved with adequate calories and nutrients.

[FirmJuneBug]

Originally Posted by controlledcarb

Atkins took the diet he read about in JAMA, from a study that showed beneficial results in the subjects, and tried it himself....it worked....so his basis was from a peer of his time, not earlier in the century. But, data is also out there from the late 19th century and throughout the 20th that he did read and include in his justification for the dietary approach.

I realise that a study in JAMA is what inspired him in the 1960's, but there was a man (either a doctor or scientist) Atkins talked about in his first book I believe, who found cutting out carbs resulted in weightloss, he credited him for getting the ball rolling. I don't know if I have that book anymore, will try and look it up.

And let's not forget it's not until recently Atkins started getting his due. It wasn't until THIS decade major studies started getting published legitimizing his claims. And didn't Atkins testify in front of congress in defense of his diet? For a good 30 years, "experts" were trying to bury him, and thank God he stuck it out and was actually a credit to his plan, following his diet. Not to mention the thousands and thousands of patients he had as living proof.

[controlledcarb]

Originally Posted by FirmJuneBug

I realise that JAMA is what inspired him in the 1960's, but there was a man (either a doctor or scientist) Atkins talked about in his first book I believe, who found cutting out carbs resulted in weightloss, he credited him for getting the ball rolling. I don't know if I have that book anymore, will try and look it up.

Banting

nd let's not forget it's not until recently Atkins started getting his due. It wasn't until THIS decade major studies started getting published legitimizing his claims. And didn't Atkins testify in front of congress in defense of his diet? For a good 30 years, "experts" were trying to bury him, and thank God he stuck it out and was actually a credit to his plan, following his diet. Not to mention the thousands and thousands of patients he had as living proof.

Ummm...well, not exactly - there is solid data dating back decades...all the way back to the early 1900's (I think first published study - real study - was in 1909 if I remember correctly)....just because data was ignored and/or dismissed doesn't mean it wasn't there! I think you'd probably be blown away by the sheer number of studies that validated carbohydrate restriction from 1920's through the present day!

[lisabinil]

Originally Posted by controlledcarb

You do realize that WLS is often a permanent state of malnutrition?

So far as liberation of estrogen into the system with fat loss, yes that can also lead to menstrual cycle irregularities, often the opposite of amenorrhea....often it's closer cycles, heavier cycles and cycles that last much longer than previously.....and that resolves itself with time. Amenorrhea, from calorie intake that is inadequate or due to malnutrition is not resolved with time - it's resolved with adequate calories and nutrients.

That is also why I am on a vitamin & supplementation regimen. I am definitely not malnourished but this is off subject. I'm not supposed to believe the advice of licensed medical practioners then? I just brought up the point that it is a scientific medical fact taught by doctors-to debate why it is a medical fact that is being taught you would have to debate that with them.

[Leashy]

Originally Posted by Doodle_in_MA

Maybe Jacklyn Smith will be available to play Kimmer

That is the funniest thing I've heard all day!!!

[jpatti]

Originally Posted by boogie

Anytime you cut your intake to practically nothing you will lose. Look how skinny people in 3rd world countries there are. Are they healthy? Do they die young from being skinny or from malnutrition? Drug addicts are also skinny. As an ex pro dancer I can tell you that many due in fact take drugs to stay slim. Are they healthy?

One of my sisters has been a crack addict on-and-off. When she gets off the drugs, she gains piles of weight, but when she is on them, she's majorly skinny.

It never occurred to me before, but obviously she ought to open a weight loss web site and charge $60 a pop for her secrets to fast weight loss. As long as the "secret" isn't revealed until after people pay the $60, she ought to be able to rake it in!

She even has REAL before and after shots!

[controlledcarb]

Originally Posted by lisabinil

That is also why I am on a vitamin & supplementation regimen. I am definitely not malnourished but this is off subject.I'm not supposed to believe