Why the fascination with Kimmer? #2

[SoHappy]

Tippy Toes, I think one of the things that bothers so many people is this sort of mindset: There were quite a few times where followers would post, "I don't CARE about anyone else! I only care about myself............and the diet is working for me, blah, blah, blah! I think we're supposed to care about each other. The "not caring" about the ill effects others may encounter is a sad commentary on those who still defend the Kimkins site and even Kimmer, herself.

You stated that you were there because "you support a diet that works", but you could support that diet at any other site. But you are wanting to support it at the Kimkins site. You are obviously wanting that site and Kimmer to continue. Do you support her Bootcamp diet?

Do you, like Kimmer, believe that "starvation mode" doesn't exist, or doesn't persist, if a dieter has remained on very low calories for extended periods of time? Do you believe that extreme dieting can in no way damage a person's metabolism? Do you really believe that a Centrum-type vitamin a day is perfectly ample and a good way for people to get all the nutrients they need outside of their lean meat and lettuce?

Do you really think that young, heavy, hopeful women (and men) are not at this very time, because of that very site, not doing damage to themselves and their metabolisms that will set them up for a life of fattness?.....and you are helping them damage themselves and their future?

I wish you could help close down that site, which promotes so much extreme thought in dieting and weight loss, and help guide people on other sites with the same advice you now have to offer, saner advice.

I think by remaining there, and working there, you help keep alive a site that has too much buried, and not-so-deeply buried, harmful advice to impress onto the inexperienced.

[missis36]

I guess I don't understand why you couldn't have just done what Becky, Christin and Deni have done, and gone out on your own to explain the good and bad about the diet.

You have done a modified version of KK, new people you solicit as the PR director who have never low carbed will put themselves in danger as have many before them, but you came to the diet with previous knowledge. If you tweaked to stay healthy that's great but it's not kk. So why not start your own FREE blog giving healthy diet advice...since you have proven that you know what you are doing? That is the only reason you are remotely credible at this time, because you lost the weight. Heidi has not and yet you still want to stand behind her. I'm sorry but that's criminal.

Do you not see that following/supporting Heidi is like going to a brain surgeon who's never gone to medical school but watches a whole lot of ER so they think they are qualified. Fraud is Fraud. Sorry.

[Shaina]

Originally Posted by Tippy Toes

The records of my weight loss are all right here. Her newsletter was correct. I submitted the story and was printed word for word--unedited

Tippy, your BBB Kimkins review as written states a different story, it is misleading to say the least.

This is the BEST weight loss website I have been to yet! Thanks to Kimkins.com I have lost 112 lbs, have never been sick, got off blood pressure and cholesterol meds and I feel terrific! I have NEVER experienced anything but positive help from the site and I was NEVER told to use laxitives OR lower calories–ever.I cannot say enough good things about the website. I tried other weight loss plans and they did not work but that Kimkins sure did! And I have medical records and pictures to prove it. Just ask me for them.

[CarolinaRocker]

Front Page:

Sure, there are other popular diets out there like Weight Watchers, Atkins, Nutrisystem, Jenny Craig and South Beach, but they only work up to a point before you quit in frustration with the slow weight loss and complicated rules. But not Kimkins!

or quit "her" diet because it is just too restrictive.

[missis36]

Originally Posted by Shaina

Originally Posted by Tippy Toes

The records of my weight loss are all right here. Her newsletter was correct. I submitted the story and was printed word for word--unedited

Tippy, your BBB Kimkins review as written states a different story, it is misleading to say the least.

This is the BEST weight loss website I have been to yet! Thanks to Kimkins.com I have lost 112 lbs, have never been sick, got off blood pressure and cholesterol meds and I feel terrific! I have NEVER experienced anything but positive help from the site and I was NEVER told to use laxitives OR lower calories–ever.I cannot say enough good things about the website. I tried other weight loss plans and they did not work but that Kimkins sure did! And I have medical records and pictures to prove it. Just ask me for them.

Good point. It was kimkins.com that helped? Or is that just more pr spin? I agree with Carolyn, and everyone above me who questions what your motivation is. WE have all been desperate...some of us still are, but I tell you what even if I had been doing something utterly dangerous I'd never give that advice to a friend or a stranger, because I know it could hurt them.

Where is your accountability? As I see none at this time.

[Pleiades]

Originally Posted by missis36

Do you not see that following/supporting Heidi is like going to a brain surgeon who's never gone to medical school but watches a whole lot of ER so they think they are qualified. Fraud is Fraud. Sorry.

Well crap. Now I can't open my practice

[missis36]

Originally Posted by Pleiades

Well crap. Now I can't open my practice

Actually you can, I guess its called free enterprise...so please go forth and prosper. Just remember if you kill someone you need to point the attention elsewhere, and you need to have sacrificial lambs that will throw themselves on the sword for you.

[pbptm]

What I don't understand is with all the attention in the media ( over here in particular) on how healthy eating is the way to go forget starvation diets don't try to get to size 0.
How can it still be possible for a diet to suggest that losing so fast and restricting food choices to the extreme is ever the way to go? I don't understand how anyone can endorse such a diet.

[Cutie]

Originally Posted by Sherrie_lc

I could be wrong but I could swear when there was a big thread about it on ALC around the time Jimmy announced he was doing it I think you were (at least in the beginning) defending kimkins?

at first, i was supportive of kimkins the published plans but not the PBTP, yes, you're remembering correctly.

even though it wasn't a good plan for me, i wasn't ready to concede that it wasn't good for anyone.

but then i read more about the people who i thought it was working well for...only to find out that those people were doing "tweaks" that were making it work well for them, so in essence, they weren't doing the published plans. that was enlightening

and then the people who were doing it completely as written...were actually facing serious medical repercussions...that was alarming.

so, then i started to read more on my own and look into things that you and controlled carbs and others were posting...and that was eye-opening.

i then changed my stance on supporting the published kimkins plans as any kind of on-going weight loss plan that can be healthy...they are in fact, nutritionally bankrupt.

[missis36]

"so, then i started to read more on my own and look into things that you and controlled carbs and others were posting...and that was eye-opening.

i then changed my stance on supporting the published kimkins plans as any kind of on-going weight loss plan that can be healthy...they are in fact, nutritionally bankrupt."

So after realizing what was going on you didn't support her? Hmmmm. This is an interesting concept...again I can't see how anyone could support her after all of this. Just sayin....

[xf89]

Originally Posted by GypsyVisions

I see you only have 2 posts

Thank you!

[pbptm]

It concerns me that people who have not learned to lose weight healthily will not have learned how to maintain that weight loss healthily. It will inevitably mean binging and starving cycles in order to maintain a magic number on the scale.
Just more reasons not to promote kimkins IMHO

[MidwestMommy]

What bugs me a lot lately is that Kimmer mentions a lot that people who had gastric by-pass consume around the same amount of calories and it is just fine for them...blah blah blah ( OK i AM TOO LAZY TO LOOK UP HER POSTS ABOUT THAT LOL) but anyway, I was looking up sample diets for gastric by-pass. This is what I found to be most common among all the sites I looked at:

Sample Menu
Breakfast
banana - 1/4 med
Scrambled egg - 1
toast, white -1/2 slice
margarine - 1 tsp
Lunch
broiled chicken breast- 2 oz
carrots, boiled - 1/4 cup
margarine - 1 tsp
pasta salad - 1/4 cup
Dinner
haddock, baked or broiled - 2 oz
green beans - 1/4 cup
dinner roll - 1/2

Morning snack
graham crackers - 2
pudding, sugar-free, made with 2% fat milk - 1/2 cup

Afternoon snack
fruit cocktail, waterpacked - 1./2 cup

Evening snack
cheese, American - 1 oz
saltine crackers - 2
mustard - 1 tsp

*Consume nonfat milk between meals, throughout the day. Drink no more than 2 to 3 ounces at a time, for a daily total of 2 cups.



This Sample Diet Provides the Following
Calories
1011
Fat
37 gm
Protein
71 gm
Calcium
1065 mg
Carbohydrates
97 gm
Iron
6 mg

How in the world can that woman say her diet is healthy and your body gets everything it needs? The gastric bypass diet includes all the food groups, has higher fat cal and carbs. Her trying to compare the 2 are like apples and oranges.

[CroweKitty]

Originally Posted by missis36

So after realizing what was going on you didn't support her? Hmmmm. This is an interesting concept...again I can't see how anyone could support her after all of this. Just sayin....

Agreed, with you and Cutie.

For any woman to come to these boards and not understand that vLCD causes further weight gain and lowered metabolism is beyond me. That's what these boards are for -- to learn from other's mistakes.

Yelling -- I have been there before -- don't do what I did!!!!

Please, youngsters, learn this. We have all been through it before. Don't lower your calories below BMR. Eat healthy, low carb foods and follow a proven plan to weight loss. (Kimkins is not proven, nor sane!)

[Cutie]

Originally Posted by missis36

So after realizing what was going on you didn't support her? Hmmmm. This is an interesting concept...again I can't see how anyone could support her after all of this. Just sayin....

actually, i quit supporting "her" a long time ago. i just didn't abandon support for the diet as quickly. and i had to really separate my feelings for her to focus on the diet, independent of her...to really see it for what it was.

it's been a gradual process for me. BECAUSE i was so staunchly supportive, it wasn't all something i could renounce in one fell swoop...it was all too "ingrained" in me for such a long time.

my way out of it...was a dawning awareness of truth in the midst of a lot of fiction...but it took time.

but i've been healthy during all of this. unlike me, for those who are actively doing the plans as written...time is not on their side. they can't afford to wait too long to make some needed changes.

[Cutie]

tippy...

one thing that i had to come to terms with in my own former support of kimkins the plan is that i couldn't say so unequivacally that the plans worked for me, as written.

and you can't either.

i totally believe that when you do kimkins, you do it completely as she's written it...no doubt. but then you stop after a week...you only do it for ONE week at a time. and don't return to it again for weeks later.

that greatly pales in comparison to what can happen to someone who is doing the plans as written for week after week after week...with no breaks and/or no "extra fats" tweaks.

so you can not really understand what it means to stay on it all the time, which is how it's intended to be (remember, the infamous kimmer domino theory??)

you can not say that you know if you had stayed on it week after week, you wouldn't be suffering some of the same health repercussions others have.

you just don't know.

so for you to be such a staunch advocate of the plans to the point of being on her paid staff as PR person based on your own testimony of 100% proof that the plan works...is misleading.

you are NOT 100% proof that the plan works. you've only proven that it works well for an intermittent week at a time.

and i'm only proof that it works for an intermittent 2 weeks at a time. (and even that's a stretch, since my added dairy made it more like stillmans)

think about it...neither one of have truly done kimkins "as written"

it took me a while to come to that realization that i had no business promoting this plan to others who were looking to me for advice and support...when my own experiences did not accurately reflect how the plan was designed to be done.

it's a realization i hope you can come to, as well.

[Doodle_in_MA]

Originally Posted by SoHappy

Tippy Toes, I think one of the things that bothers so many people is this sort of mindset: There were quite a few times where followers would post, "I don't CARE about anyone else! I only care about myself............and the diet is working for me, blah, blah, blah! I think we're supposed to care about each other. The "not caring" about the ill effects others may encounter is a sad commentary on those who still defend the Kimkins site and even Kimmer, herself.

You stated that you were there because "you support a diet that works", but you could support that diet at any other site. But you are wanting to support it at the Kimkins site. You are obviously wanting that site and Kimmer to continue. Do you support her Bootcamp diet?

Do you, like Kimmer, believe that "starvation mode" doesn't exist, or doesn't persist, if a dieter has remained on very low calories for extended periods of time? Do you believe that extreme dieting can in no way damage a person's metabolism? Do you really believe that a Centrum-type vitamin a day is perfectly ample and a good way for people to get all the nutrients they need outside of their lean meat and lettuce?

Do you really think that young, heavy, hopeful women (and men) are not at this very time, because of that very site, not doing damage to themselves and their metabolisms that will set them up for a life of fattness?.....and you are helping them damage themselves and their future?

I wish you could help close down that site, which promotes so much extreme thought in dieting and weight loss, and help guide people on other sites with the same advice you now have to offer, saner advice.

I think by remaining there, and working there, you help keep alive a site that has too much buried, and not-so-deeply buried, harmful advice to impress onto the inexperienced.

Great post, SoHappy! What she said

[Doodle_in_MA]

Originally Posted by Cutie

at first, i was supportive of kimkins the published plans but not the PBTP, yes, you're remembering correctly.

even though it wasn't a good plan for me, i wasn't ready to concede that it wasn't good for anyone.

but then i read more about the people who i thought it was working well for...only to find out that those people were doing "tweaks" that were making it work well for them, so in essence, they weren't doing the published plans. that was enlightening

and then the people who were doing it completely as written...were actually facing serious medical repercussions...that was alarming.

so, then i started to read more on my own and look into things that you and controlled carbs and others were posting...and that was eye-opening.

i then changed my stance on supporting the published kimkins plans as any kind of on-going weight loss plan that can be healthy...they are in fact, nutritionally bankrupt.

There were LOTS of people who defended Kimkins and are no longer doing it. That's what this is all about. People have to do the research and decide for themselves. I think a lot of the people posting here did Kimkins at one point and would have argued that it was a good plan...then.

[Nady]

Christin has a new entry on her blog~ and a apropos story~
~~~N

[Cutie]

message from christin:

My dear friend Deni said that once she saw the Kimkins program as a speeding train. She was warned not to remain on that train and instead sit on her bench at the train station and wait for travelers to come off of the train. I too sit on that bench… and every now and then we journey down my road, stopping for a while to rest with our friend Becky at her tent… But then, I come back to the train and I am saddened at worried. I look through the windows and I see friends. Many of whom I did invite aboard with me. They are my friends, my allies, my confidants, my support system. But what true friend would I be if I allowed them to continue without warning them of the impending danger that is to come? The more I read and research the more I realize the grave danger I put myself in, and others in, through my use of the Kimkins diet program.

It breaks my heart that these people who used to be my friends have now labeled me as an outsider; a “hater.” I did not get my research and proof of what I found from “anti” blogs or forums contrary to what has been reported to you. Doesn’t it seem odd that “my friend,” the founder of that program would not provide me with the medical proof that I asked for? And I asked not only as a concerned friend, but as the Public Relations representative in order that I might represent what I believed in whole heartedly. But I was given nothing to stand on. No concrete to plant my feet on, as I desperately sought a way to defend my decisions and they way I had led my life for almost a year. Instead, I was left floundering in assumptions of my greatest fears, later confirmed by my own studies. I understand. I was just as disillusioned as you are trying not to be… maybe even more so. I was on the cover of a magazine telling the world of a program which I had assumed to be safe!

My friends I implore you, you have heard my heart. You have read my words. I, of all people, would be the first to jump up and shout to the rooftops if I could prove Kimkins to be safe for general dietary use! This is what I asked Kimmer for. I wanted to promote Kimkins with integrity and honesty. I wanted to be able to show without a doubt that it was a good program. But, try as I might, I could not.

I am a real person. I’ve met some of you, others I’ve spoken with over the phone. You’ve seen pictures of me through my journey, of my friends and family members with me. Please trust your heart. I am your friend, the one you looked up to. If you joined Kimkins because you saw my face and trusted me when I proclaimed that you too can lose weight, trust me again. You CAN lose weight; AND you can do it healthfully. Do not be pulled into the “comfort” of the train ride or a fear to go against the status quo… that train is headed for a ravine and the bridge is out my friends.

I want to leave you with this old story about a king. This king‘s life was saved and he didn’t even know it till it was too late.

A King and His Hawk

One morning when he was home from the wars, he rode out into the woods to have a day's sport. Many of his friends were with him. They rode out gayly, carrying their bows and arrows. Behind them came the servants with the hounds.

It was a merry hunting party. The woods rang with their shouts and laughter. They expected to carry much game home in the evening.

On the king's wrist sat his favorite hawk, for in those days hawks were trained to hunt. At a word from their masters they would fly high up into the air, and look around for prey. If they chanced to see a deer or rabbit, they would swoop down upon it swift as any arrow.

Towards evening they started for home. The king had often ridden through the woods, and he knew all the paths. So while the rest of the party took the nearest way, he went by the longer road through a valley between two mountains.

The day had been warm, and the king was very thirsty. His pet hawk had left his wrist a flown away. It would be sure to find its way home.

The king rode slowly along. He had once seen a spring of clear water near this path. If he could only find it now! But the hot days of summer had dried up all the mountain brooks.

At last, to his joy, he saw some water trickling down over the edge of a rock. He know that there was a spring farther up. In the wet season, a swift stream of water always poured down here; but now it came only one drop at a time.

The king leaped from his horse. He took a little silver cup from his hunting bag. He held it so as to catch the slowly falling drops.

It took a long time to fill the cup; and the king was so thirsty that he could hardly wait. At last it was nearly full. He put the cup to his lips, and was about to drink.

All at once there was a whirling sound in the air, and the cup was knocked from his hands. The water was all spilled upon the ground.

The king looked up to see who had done this thing. It was his pet hawk.
The hawk flew back and forth a few times, and then alighted among the rocks by the spring. The king picked up the cup, and again he held it to catch the trickling drops.

This time he did not wait so long. When the cup was half full, he lifted it towards his mouth. But before it had touched his lips, the hawk swooped down again, and knocked it from his hands.

And now the king began to grow angry. He tried again, and for the third time the hawk kept him from drinking.

The king was now very angry indeed. "How do you dare to act so?" he cried. "If I had you in my hands, I would wring your neck!" Then he filled the cup again. But before he tried to drink, he drew his sword.

"Now, Sir Hawk," he said, "this is the last time."

He had hardly spoken before the hawk swooped down and knocked the cup from his hand. But the king was looking for this. With a quick sweep of the sword he struck the bird as it passed.

The next moment the poor hawk lay bleeding and dying at its master's feet.
"That is what you get for your pains," said the king.
But when he looked up for his cup, he found that it had fallen between two rocks where he could not reach it.

"At any rate, I will have a drink from that spring," he said to himself.
With that he began to climb the steep bank to the place from which the water had trickled. It was hard work, and the higher he climbed, the thirstier he became.

At last he reached the place. There indeed was a pool of water; but what was that lying in the pool, and almost filling it? It was a huge, dead snake of the most poisonous kind.

The king stopped. He forgot his thirst. He thought only of the poor dead bird lying on the ground below him.

"The hawk saved my life!" he cried, "and how did I repay him? He was my best friend and I have killed him."

He clambered down the bank. He took the bird up gently, and laid it in his hunting bag. Then he mounted his horse and rode swiftly home.

I am swooping down again to knock down your cup… but will you put away your sword?

[CARBBABY]

Tippy,
I have a question, I see that you are on maintenance. What is your daily carb count? Do you still have to alternate plans to maintain? Just trying to understand since KK doesnt have a maintence plan, seems like its an ongoing battle.

[xf89]

Originally Posted by Cutie

message from christin:

She always has such heartfelt posts! I wish I could write from the heart like that!

[Doodle_in_MA]

Kimmer posted today:

"What Happened?" 1 Hour, 10 Minutes ago

"I you guys alone for one day and I hear we're getting sued? Ordinarily I'd have something to say, but I'm sure our attorney would prefer I not "help" him, LOL.

The anti-Kimmer will do what they have always done (I do make friends easily, don't I?) We will continue to do what we do. Bottom line is that we are here to stay and the forums are permanent.

I'll leave this thread here for today, then I'm moving it to Kimkins Chatter. For every 1 member who wants todiscuss details, we get 10 member PMs for "we don't want to hear about it." Democracy in action."