Why the fascination with Kimmer?

[marymc]

You know Sleepy, I'm glad you said this. I don't even know Kimmer/Heidi but I've been thinking that with every post myself.

Originally Posted by Sleepy

ummmm.....this is a Kimmer line

Kimmer used to say this ALL OF THE TIME!!

[marymc]

Wow Madam, this was an awesome analysis/rebuttal of the comparative factors in Kimkins plan versus the real plan behind the plan.

Originally Posted by Madam De Leon

A deficit, yes. Going several hundred or a thousand calories or more/day under your basal metabolic rate, or water/diet coke fasting for weeks at at time, like Kimmer suggests, no. No way. They're doctors, they know about starvation mode, which Kimmer completely denies even exists.

Neither of those books would have ever suggested daily doses of stimulant laxatives either, because once again, they're written by doctors - they know that excessive use of stimulant laxatives is extremely harmful! Kimmer, without any medical evidence to back her up, claims it's not.

In addition, neither of them would have ever suggested omitting any and all fats possible, and eating only the leanest protein sources. There's a reason Essential Fatty Acids are called "essential" - that's what they are - Essential to good health. The only way to get them into your body is to eat them.
Minor correction:

You're right, protein is 4 calories/gram, but carbs are also only 4 calories/gram. Fats are 9 calories per gram.

She allowed minimal fats, "just enough to make your menu work". That could mean no added fats at all, or very small amounts - 1/2 tsp here, 1/4 tsp there. Non-fat, no calorie, or spray on salad dressings were advised repeatedly, which means no added fats from those. She also strongly suggested using Pam instead of any kind of butter/oil for cooking. If you admitted to using fats in your cooking, or half'n'half or cream in your coffee/tea, that was the first thing you were told to cut out. This is part of the "plan behind the plan", and not explicit in the basic plan.

The veggies are included in the 0-20 g carbs in Heidi's plan (she didn't allow any deductions for fiber, which we know aren't metabolized the same as non-fiber carbs), so no, there were no "additional" veggies, just the 3 cups salad veggies, or 2 cups salad veggies and 1 cup total from the other list.

If you look at the nutritional stats on lettuce, for instance, you will find that 3 cups of lettuce have 1-2 g carbs and 4-10 calories per cup. That adds up to 12-30 calories per day, while only providing 3-6 g carbs.The rest of the "up to" 20g carbs would come from various spices used in cooking your lean protein.

Note that it does not say lean MEAT, but lean PROTEIN. One egg white provides 17 calories, and 4 g protein. If a person decided to get all their protein from hard boiled egg whites and stayed on the low side of the 70-90 g protein (18 egg whites = 72 g protein), they could concievably consume a mere 302 calories per day, and still stay within the guidelines for Kimkins, with no added fats at all.

See above. Everywhere it says "up to" (carbs, veggies) implies that zero is perfectly ok. Our hypothetical hard boiled egg white eater could congratulate herself for using NO added fats, NO carbs, and ending her day with an intake of 302 calories. Granted, most people would want more variety than that - but we're talking about people who are desperate to lose weight, sometimes hundreds of pounds, and with Kimmer urging them to cut calories more and more, and stick to the leanest of the lean, once a dieter was SNATTy, it would be "easy" to eat less and less.

[tiggerr]

I went looking for the reason she could not lose weight, and I found that when you eat less than fifteen hundred calories a day, you affect your thyroid. Decreasing the thyroid decreases your body temperature, which decreases the number of calories you burn. Adding exercise decreases the thyroid further.

Great, this is me.

[Just4Me]

tiggerr, where did you get that quote? I missed it. TIA

[marymc]

funny...that "area" seems to be where I lose the most weight the quickest

Originally Posted by tiggerr

118 pounds and a DD?

Wouldn't you fall over?

[anipomoni]

I posted those links because it really bothered me a LOT when I would see Kimmer telling people that there was no such thing as starvation mode. I always wondered why in HADES people would listen to this person with no evidence to back her up. It was like she was above having to prove her theories.

So I just wanted to point people to actual data.

(Just4me, that quote tigger referenced was in the first link I posted.)

[jpatti]

Originally Posted by Amyb1569

I have never posted on this site before today. I was just curious if maybe KimATC could answer something for me. Or maybe someone on here knows. If I were doing kimkins and had gotten very low with my carbs and calories..if I started adding more of these back in..would exercise help me from having the scale go back up?
I know that maybe the scale should be less important then learning a new healthier way of adding foods back in..but I admit I am human and want my cake and eat it too...opps...no cake..ha
I would of PM'd this but I can not PM yet.

This is the problem... if you go very low on calories, your body has to burn something for fuel. Some of what it burns is fat, but some of what it burns is protein - i.e. muscles and organs. You haven't just lost fat, but lean body mass also.

If you start eating more sanely, you are very likely going to gain weight, even if you are still losing fat! Because once your body has the slightest chance to do so, it's going to rebuild muscles and organs that have wasted away. This is a GOOD thing.

You have to get OVER the whole scale thing. Think about it: if you were HAWT, would you CARE what you weighed? When you see an attractive woman walking down the road, do you reserve judgment on whether she's hot or not until you see her stats?

What you want is to look good and feel good and the scale has little to do with that.

If you've been calorie-deprived, it will take some time to work yourself back. Be kind to yourself while you rebuild your health. If the scale bugs you, just stay off it for a month or two.

[aloise]

Originally Posted by anipomoni

I posted those links because it really bothered me a LOT when I would see Kimmer telling people that there was no such thing as starvation mode. I always wondered why in HADES people would listen to this person with no evidence to back her up. It was like she was above having to prove her theories.

So I just wanted to point people to actual data.

looking at the real pictures of Kimmer/Heidi, I think she is living proof of what those studies say!

That is... if Kimmer ever really followed her own diet. and who knows if she ever did or not...

I hope that the Kimkins followers that did follow the low carb diets for extended periods of time will feel comfortable sharing what happens when they do go back to eating normally. Do they gain more easily or not? Does exercise help them to keep stable? Does switching diets every couple of weeks help to shake the metabolism up? I know people are trying different things to keep whatever weight loss they got off, and I hope they will share their experiences of life AFTER a VLCD.

I think a lot of people come here to try low carb after VLCDs don't work for them. so, I think that kind of sharing will help a lot of people.

my opinion, of course.

[jpatti]

Originally Posted by missis36

Also if the sons ex is right and she's an alcoholic, how the hell does she get off telling others not to drink?!?!?! Oh wait...I'm acting schocked again I reminded myself to stop that.

Exact same way she tells them not to eat.

[BellaHMB]

This is the response I received when I requested a refund from Kimkins:


Hello,

I'm sorry but the Kimkins lifetime membership program is electronic media and non-refundable.

You've had access to the Kimkins program including the diet, diet variations, food lists, grocery lists, weight loss resource links, recipe files, community support forums and certified athletic trainer for months.

If you don't want to take advantage of the support and challenge groups, you'll still get outstanding results from the diet working on your own. You may wish to take the diet and food lists to your doctor for personalization.

Best regards,



Go figure.

Bella

[dlslds]

Leashy, Janessa and others who have corresponded with the mother of Kimmers grandchild, Has she written back anything else of interest?

again ty

[Just4Me]

Originally Posted by anipomoni

... (Just4me, that quote tigger referenced was in the first link I posted.)

Thanks hon!

[DeliGirl]

Originally Posted by BellaHMB

This is the response I received when I requested a refund from Kimkins:


Hello,

I'm sorry but the Kimkins lifetime membership program is electronic media and non-refundable.

You've had access to the Kimkins program including the diet, diet variations, food lists, grocery lists, weight loss resource links, recipe files, community support forums and certified athletic trainer for months.

If you don't want to take advantage of the support and challenge groups, you'll still get outstanding results from the diet working on your own. You may wish to take the diet and food lists to your doctor for personalization.

Best regards,



Go figure.

Bella

Umm I thought if you tweaked it, it was no longer Kimkins. Isn't personalization the same thing as tweaking??

This woman is quite a piece of work, and by piece of work, I really mean a piece of something else
I can't believe that I finally got to the end of the thread.

[KimPossible]

Originally Posted by wifezilla

Kimmer recap...

I am soooooo behind, but wanted to say thanks for this!

[marymc]

I'm just an observer here but wonder ... shouldn't the FTC be alerted as to the suspect possibility of the use of multiple identities and stolen social security numbers, as well as the IRS in relation to the money obtained by fraud and filtered through paypal? I believe both have hotlines where tips can be submitted anonymously.

Originally Posted by Cutie

also, don't know if this has been posted here before, but i saw on another forum where jeanessa contacted the Internet Crime Complaint Center!

http://www.ic3.gov/

[marymc]

I'm in the same position as you Sally as far as all this goes, but isn't it kind of nice to see the very people she took advantage of taking a stand and making things right? This whole event has me wrapped up. I want to see justice!!

Originally Posted by sallyk

Thanks for your story. And thank you for understanding why this fight is being done. I have never been involved with Kimkins or followed her advice, so it is not my fight. I do, however, support those who are doing all of this. You are a prime example, explaining your ED, as to why she needs to be stopped. I believe people's health is more important than poundage, so I believe in this fight. So if I am needed for the fight, I will step in too.

[Kona sunset]

Originally Posted by RenoMom

Okay I have been trying top keep up here. I personally never did Kimkins, but I want to chime in on the whole Foster Care thing. I have been a Foster parent since 2001 and here are the rules.

RenoMom! Thanks for stepping in on the foster kids issue. It's been a couple of years since we were foster parents. That ended when we adopted our daughter. Having fostered in two states as well as for a private agency, I can tell you that there are some variations in the rules. The rules also get bent at times, simply because the foster care system is so overwhelmed.

That being said, I just don't think Heidi/Kimmer has been a foster parent, at least not recently. Several of the things she has said about "social worker day", soliciting donations for the transitioning period, etc. just don't add up to my experience. While some social workers may prefer an element of surprise when it comes to the visits, our experience has been that they generally make appointments. However, the visits are only for about an hour, if that long. They have to see the kid, make sure they are doing okay, check with the foster parents for any concerns, etc. Only if there are major problems would it take more than an hour or so.

[marymc]

You know, I just thought of this. Anyone who joined Kimkins could file a fraud complaint with the IRS for failure to deliver the promised ebook, which would open up records by subpoena from paypal, providing the IRS with all the transaction records involving Kimkins membership payments and would also reveal the total level of unreported income.

Originally Posted by silversunfire

Thanks for the correction. Whatever the tax form is that they send out for sale of merchandise. (There are different 1099's though...maybe one is for that?? so if you are a tax person, I believe ya!!)

ETA: Wouldn't Kimkins be considered a service? Since you aren't actually getting an item (since the ebook was never written) that's what I would think. But once again, I could be totally wrong!

[pbptm]

Originally Posted by PrettyPaula

some interesting info from Online Nutritional Information and Nutritional Facts - Second Opinions, UK, anyone still think its safe? i know i dont.

All carbs are made up of just three elements: carbon, hydrogen and. oxygen. All fats are also made of the same three elements. Proteins, however, also contain nitrogen and other elements. When proteins are used to provide energy, these must be got rid of in some way. This is not only wasteful, it can put a strain on the body, particularly on the liver and kidneys.

Excess intake of nitrogen leads in a short space of time to hyperammonaemia, which is a build up of ammonia in the bloodstream. This is toxic to the brain. Many human cultures survive on a purely animal product diet, but only if it is high in fat.[xii] [xiii] A lean meat diet, on the other hand cannot be tolerated; it leads to nausea in as little as three days, symptoms of starvation and ketosis in a week to ten days, severe debilitation in twelve days and possibly death in just a few weeks. A high-fat diet, however, is completely healthy for a lifetime.
Perhaps one of the best documented studies is that of the Arctic explorer, Vilhjalmur Stefansson and a colleague.[xiv] They ate an animal meat diet for more than a year to see whether such a diet could be healthy. Everything was fine until they were asked to eat only lean meat. Dr McClelland, the lead scientist, wrote:
'At our request he began eating lean meat only, although he had previously noted, in the North, that very lean meat sometimes produced digestive disturbances. On the third day nausea and diarrhea developed. When fat meat was added to the diet, a full recovery was made in two days.'
This was a clinical study, but Stefansson had already lived for nearly twenty years on an all-meat diet with the Canadian Inuit. He and his team suffered no ill effects whatsoever.

Sorry if this has been replied to haven't caught up yet.
Paula yes I think that site is definately safe Barry Groves has a new book out too Look into it IMHO it's on the ball.

[Sheridan]

Seriously... how many chicks yall think bought a Slightly Nauseaus All The Time t-shirt??? lol

I think it'd be very fitting for HeidiKim to have to wear a "Camp Kimkins" t-shirt in public as part of her punishment. Truth in advertising!

[Sheridan]

Look at Woman's World... if it sells mags, they'll put it on the cover. A lie? A fraud? An unverified story by a phantom woman? No problem!!!

It'd be interesting to find out exactly how many copies of WW were sold that week.

[Mimosa23]

Well, I've been reading and reading this thread with growing amazement, shock and anger!

I cannot believe I got sucked into this whole Kimkins farce! I am embarrassed for sticking up for the plan, for Kimmer and my own distorted views on this whole thing! I want to apologise to anyone for doing so, and would like to tell you all a bit about my Kimkins journey and how it's affected me...

I first did Kimkins last year to drop a few quick pounds after I lost 60 pounds and regained 20... It worked great, and in three weeks I was back to my goal weight. Then the trouble started: I couldn't keep the weight off, and for the next year I kept losing and regaining 30 or so pounds. I would do the K/E for three weeks or so, and then I'd go back to low GI eating and gain the weight I'd lost on K/E. I joined the Kimkins thread here, and joined in the communal support for this WOE. I felt fat. I felt miserable and I felt ugly. The more I did Kimkins, the worse I felt. The pounds coming off would never be enough, and I didn't realise I was getting totally obsessed with food, weightloss and my appearance as I thought other people saw me. I was spiralling out of control, and found I had a very unhealthy view of food, diet and myself. I was deluding myself! I would regularly read the Ask Kimmer thread for inspiration, and I would weigh myself twice a day. Despair would set in if I didn't see the scale move downwards... I would eat less, and nothing would happen. I remember eating only three hardboiled eggs one day without the yokes; still no weightloss! I don't know what happened, but I decided to see a counsellor about certain issues I had, and also to deal with my food issues. It's taken me months to face up to the fact that I have an ED. I don't know if Kimkins was the start ( I actually doubt it) but I do know that it made my issues with food much, much worse. I am now slowly but steadily recovering, my metabolism is shot, and I'm on a medical approved diet programme that is slowly but steadily teaching me to feed my body again. I have very low blood pressure and am anaemic, and the K/E made all my symptoms much worse. I have had mineral deficiencies and they are now being treated. For the last month I have felt more energetic and awake than in the last 18 months...

I still have major problems with my body and weight, but my counsellor and my anger towards Kimmer are certainly making me feel a whole lot better!
All I can say is that I'm glad that I didn't pay for this awfully unhealthy WOE, and I want to thank all you savvy and wise people for all that you have uncovered!

I am now refeeding my body with healthy low GI foods (vegetables, protein, fat, fruit, wholewheat, etc) and am glad that I didn't have any other medical problems due to Kimkins!

I cannot believe that someone can prey on other people in the way that she has. Her deception has certainly rocked my faith in humankind. I have signed the petition, and hope she will be held accountable for her lies.

Thanks again, and my apologies for being so gullible!

[Diana]

Originally Posted by Carolina Rose

I can't help but wonder if the Kimkins Cruise will be the next thing to disappear.

Anybody still over there know if Regandy (the other Becky) is still active? She's the one who was organizing the cruise.

OMG, I know Becky!!! I didn't know she was doing Kimkins... Oh my..... I hope she is doing it with more calories then 500-700. I miss her.. she used to post here a lot at LCF

[baindegael]

Originally Posted by magnolia_petals

If you paid with a credit card via paypal....do a charge back immediately with your credit card....some companies allow up to 6 months for a charge back. This is usually much more effective than filing a paypal dispute.
I have had only one freeze, buyer paid with credit card, he had a problem between his bank and credit card company, paypal froze the amount he paid me until the problem with his credit card was resolved. No other monies in my account was touched. Now I have heard that if there are a number of complaints that paypal may freeze all of your money just to make sure the owner of the account doesn't try to run.

Technically speaking, a consumer has 60 days from statement drop to file a dispute, on the credit card end, it has 120 days from the date of charge to do so.... however, in a case like this, it was a lifetime membership, meaning that the services should continue to be rendered for a lifetime. If the services are not, then you can still to a chargeback. Equally, if the services are now not as they were described (e-book, support from Kimmer, healthy non ana diet), it's still a "lifetime" membership.

The unfortunate part is that if there is no money in the paypal account, you may not win.... and I find it intruguing that she went through paypal.... had she set herself up as a merchant through Visa/MC, she could be fined out the wazoo for the amount of disputes that would come through for a scam, and Mastercard will hunt you down for the cash....